Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-27136653-20180718233949

"Initiating a FIGHT and aiming bullets at your SOUL isn't representing yourself."

The same can be said about bullet pattern birthday cards. They are bullets. Bullets are supposed to deal damage. But not in this context. Because the recipient is a monster, not a human. In short, I believe this is how they communicate with one another. Then, you join them and you're suddenly a part of the conversation. Besides, tell me, if Toby wanted this game to work in a way so that you would realize that fighting is not necessary, why would what you're saying be the case with the monsters? It makes no sense to me.

"As a human living in the Underground, monsters may attack you. When this happens, you will enter a FIGHT."

Makes sense to me. If monsters are ought to get a human, it is obvious that some MAY attack you. But it's not implied that all do, is it not?

"Why isn't acting friendly so that you'll act friendly to Asgore when you can't spare him a good idea?"

Why isn't hiding and or running away an even better idea? Especially in the genocide route. Why are there still monsters around? And I'm positive it wasn't a fake act. That's not how Toby planned it. Never assume a conspiracy.

"Hey, don't worry about it ASGORE. I think everybody's tried to kill Frisk at least once."

Everyone out of those present in the room. But his words still make no sense anyways. Alphys didn't want to kill you. She merely set up a play where she would always save you from any troubles. And as you said, the NPCs didn't try to kill you.

"Specifically, to Gerson, who is confirmed to know you're a human in Genocide (and doesn't alert anyone)"

Well, duh. He can't leave his shop. That's the thing.

"Everyone in the world.. I can feel their hearts beating as one. And we all have ONE goal. To defeat YOU."

Figure of speech. Also, didn't she say that in the genocide route? I don't recall.

"One is simulated, the other is simply that the laws of physics were magically defined by a deity."

Same thing to me.

"The HUD existing on the Surface doesn't give it additional properties not defined by the game."

The game explicitly shows us that Frisk stops on precisely defined boundaries whereever they go. Seems HUD-like to me.

"Not only that, kt would need to be coded in a very soecific way."

Exactly. Ever noticed how specifically programmed the HUD is? How can it be a law, if souls didn't always exist? Unless, the entirety of existence was created all at once, along with the souls and the HUD already in place. Or maybe because the HUD evolved (or was created) only much later than that.

"So are the odds of US evolving. On Earth. That's why the fine-tuning argument is a thing."

Sustain and replicate. Once that's in place, natural selection takes care of the rest. Life is the universe's best attempt at preserving entropy in a low-entropy system. What is the HUD good for? Why would creatures with souls need it? Were we the witnesses of HUD evolution when Frisk broke the meta by sliding the bounding box over to the fight button? No for real, why would a completely simultaneous universe ever develop or needed to develop such a thing? Unless I'm right, in that the overworld is just as bizarre as the HUD itself.

"And which one is less bizzare? As you said, mind control's the conspiracy theorist argument."

Which is why I don't believe that the HUD is canonically real. Because such idea IS ridiculous.

"I mean, we have literal magic. That requires a new set of laws already."

Sure, but a simulteneity halt specific for souls is on a whole new scale. It is so artificially-looking, I am already convinced it didn't evolve naturally. Do we agree on that?

"Once again, we're supoosed to roleplay Frisk."

Which proves to be extra difficult once the game tells us we weren't [name] at all.

"I already told you how Flowey could have deduced this."

I mean, I can see he could have learned it only after we left the underground. He doesn't seem aware even at the end, in the first area of the game as Asriel. So maybe something happened since that time and he somehow magically learned it (e.g. Toby cheated), or maybe that scene played out in one of those Floweypot scenarios where he gets to live with Frisk (so he would have a chance to eventually realize this up close), or none of that and it was just a message to the player.

The second one seems to be the most reasonable one, but then again, HOW would he speak to Chara? Frisk letting him speak to them while doing something like, idk, covering their ears for privacy... that seems a bit cheesy to me.

"You know, the void from Omega Flowey's world?"

Aye. But a similar void is present just before we enter and leave the ruins. It could just be some dark spot in the caverns that he moved us to, so that he would have more space for himself.

"Is it really that far-fetched that the monsters met some humans, and Asriel used those names?"

No, but it is far-fetched that he would kill 6 humans and then proceeded to absorb all of monsterkind once again. Plus, that doesn't even explain the HP we get in that fight.

"Also, this happened in the credits, in a realm never mentioned again, that we don't even know about within the game.."

Implying what? That the credits weren't "real" and were for our eyes only? First, wouldn't that imply that Flowey's speech, which came after that, wasn't "real" either, and second, does that mean you're giving this one to me? Because this is what I've been claiming for months now.

"When it's not always a good oppertunity, and sometimes, there's one and the button doesn't appear."

Well, take the soul attacks. Each time the ACT button appears, no attack is overlapping it. It appears in a window.

"Flowey was using magical attacks. I told you, only the slash is invisible to monsters. And only humans can use the slash attack."

Then we agree that the HUD is exclusive to humans, ergo, we spiral back towards my original statement, which got derailed by MysteriousMalice, who said that monsters have it too. Respond to it again in that case. Humans being the only ones with this attack implies the monsters were mind controlled into not noticing it, since they couldn't have ALL been familiar with it.

"That's why we can see Chara's slash attack."

We can see it probably for the same reason why Flowey remembers exactly what we did in a previous timeline.

"Using an exploit that still technically falls in line with the HUD's laws is not equivelant to actually breaking explicit laws."

The law that the box is stationary was broken.

"Adding something isn't the same as taking something away."

Either breaks the canon. I see no difference.

"They have no reason to collectively tell the story of Asriel to you if they think you're a monster"

And I never said that these monsters don't know you're a human. Although... that last Froggit at the end seemed rather confused on what does "free" mean in a given context.

"What caused the Big Bang? Why do the laws of physics exist as they do? I have an answer for the wind blowing, it's the result of the unequal heating of the air. But as for these questions? Come on."

You compared the HUD to life. I have now stated what life is, and implied the HUD is not like life.