Board Thread:Wiki Discussion/@comment-39447774-20190514202810/@comment-33883848-20190605185235

"He cannot truly care about Chara. He wants to, but he's unable to:"

Saying that he cares about them when he has the souls is obvious, since at that moment, he can feel love. But not here."

Sorry but he says that he still cares about Chara BEFORE regaining the souls"theres only one person i can care about ",even though he cant "truly care"about them,he still has attachment to them.Plus the whole "i care about you more than anybody else"line comes BEFORE you save him,before you activate his memories to feel love again.And if he could feel compassion at this point i doubt that he would condemn everyone.

"As for the very end, there, he once again cannot feel love, but he's trying to be a nice person. He's feeling no attachment, but he feels morally obligated to act like he does. That's called compassion, and you don't need to be able to "feel" to have that."

I dont say that he can feel love but theres difference between attachment and love.You can get attachment to a neighbor but that doenst mea that you truly love them,you can get attachment to finctional characters but you wouldnt love them as real people and Flowey is in this same situation

"Believe it or not, that's precisely what some players did, they refused to kill Papyrus, even though they were curious."

But still toriel and many sentient creatures and i doubt that anyone can love a character as a real person.

"And how exactly do you know he felt sadness and not frustration, hmm? He said it himself, he's unable to feel anything."

He never said that he cant feel anything and here the context of this line"Everything is going to be alright." He was so... Emotional. But... For some reason... I didn't feel anything at all. I soon realized I didn't feel ANYTHING about ANYONE. My compassion had disappeared! ".He explictly says that he was talking about conpassion and not any other emotion.And as you said,he can still feel emotions like frustation and fear,so could this line mean that he cant feel emotions at all?

And Asgore found Asriel crying in the garden when he first awake,so it appears like he can feel sadness.And sorry but ive never heard anyone ending their life out of frustration,its often out if depression

" That encompasses ALL emotions, aside from the "primal" ones"

He never encompassed ALL emotions,in the context he meant that he couldnt feel anything while his father was near him aka compassion.And wahtever they are ""primal "or not,anger and fear are still emotions like any other one(and according to many psycologists,joy and sadness are also primal emotions and many ethologists argue that most of animals can feel joy and sadness aswell)

And plus he can feel joy:he enjoy to see you suffering,he still see his games with Chara as "funny"and saw other charaters company as "amusing"

" No, the game is constantly showing us how frustrated he is and not sad. Sadness didn't drive him to suicide, frustration did. Frustration from not being able to feel anything."

Again,its unlikely,the whole "Not in a world without love ,not in a world without you"sounds more like sadness than anything else and i've only heard suicides cases that are result of depression and not anger.

I can even see that after he regained his love, immense grief and regret struck him. Why would it if he could feel those even without a soul? Why would he regain the good AND the bad all of sudden upon gaining a soul?

"No no no, he cannot feel love, happiness, joy, but also the opposites, sadness, grief and regret stemming from bad consciousness. All of these things, the good AND the bad, are the product of his soul. Without a soul, there's none of this."

He can feel regret too,after all he literally says that he feel "sorry"in the post credits dialogue even though he lack of any soul.And the game only implies that the soul prevent to feel love and compassion and not any other emotions.

"No, you don't understand the principle of happiness. Happiness (as well as comfort and affection) induces joy. So does love. Ergo, he could well substitute one for the other. But he didn't. Instead, he killed himself. That's because he cannot feel happiness (or any of the other ones). I didn't get this from anywhere, this is basic logic."

So anyone who are happy with playing games,movies,have passions arent really happy according to you??Why would we need to feel love to be happy??Ask psycopaths and i think they would all agree that they do feel hapiness.And yes he killed himself but many people do,which doenst mean that they cant feel hapiness,just that they dont feel it in the moment of their depression.Flowey killed himself out of great grief of lossing his ability to love his loved ones,how would you behave in his shoes??I think you would fall into depression too

"Wrong, he takes entertainment in others' suffering. There's a difference in that. Entertainment, aka distraction, is not synonymous with joy"

Euh what??I mean i didnt knew that we can entertain ourselves without feeling joy lol.Honnestly your definition of joy is very forced and on the sole purpose to make it in accordance with your logic

"What you're basically saying is, that he lost the ability to feel joy from good things, and gained the ability to feel joy from bad things, which is a totally retarded conclusion. "

But i never said that,i just said that he COULD feel joy in other suffering AND that he enjoyed their company at first.I never said that he could only feel joy from bad things,i dont know where you got this from...

"As I said, if he COULD feel something that gives him joy, he would substitute it for love (which originally used to give him joy) and wouldn't commit a suicide."

Do you insinuates that real life people who kill themselves do it just because they cant feel joy???I see now that youre pretty bad at psychology:suicidal people dont kill themselves because they cant feel joy but because they are heavily depressed and sad from different aspects from their life(aka harasment,mokery,loss of loved one,low self esteem etc...) and Flowey couldnt love his own parents,in his shoes i dont think that i could handdle it aswell.

". He does not take joy in others' suffering, he's merely seeking entertainment"

BUT HE LITERALLY SAYS ITS FUNNY,HE LITERALLY SAYS THAT HE SEE FRISK'S SUFFERING AS SOMETHING FUNNY IN THE NEUTRAL END.What would you say now??That he see things as "funny"#joy??Iam sorry but i cant understand your definition of joy ,orobably because you just created it.

"He wants to see more things, new things, even if those things are unspeakable and horrendous. That however doesn't mean that they bring him joy. "

But why would he see new things if they dont give him joy?

" If one thing gave him joy, he would keep repeating it. But instead, he demands to see more and more things, he's never satisfied, always wants more, because nothing is bringing him true joy. That's not sadness, that's boredom."

Again ,you shows how much youre bad at psycology:this IS a behaviour that you can find in maany people.Things give joy for some people for a certain time but they get bored and are looking to new ones.They are satisfied for a while but it wouldnt keep them always satisfied.Thats basic psycology:even Epicure theorized about it,explaining that to keep our joy,we should get enough of what we already have,of the little we have.And Floweys behaviour is also similar to the player's completionist tendencies

" He's not seeking joy, he's seeking entertainment, to DISTRACT HIMSELF FROM THE FACT THAT HE CANNOT PHYSCIALLY FEEL ANY POSITIVE OR CONSCIOUS EMOTIONS (by conscious, I mean those that are negative, but also relate to your consciousness: so for example grief or guilt, but not fear or rage)."

I dont know why you are trying to prove here honnestly...If Flowey couldnt feel,why would he feel anger and fear??Why not other basical emotions??Why are they so special according to you??And yes,animals can feel them,but they can feel many other emotions aswell(given the tests with scanner and according to many ethologists,fear and anger arent the only emotions that they can feel)

"Can he feel regret, is he depressed? Yes. But both of those have their roots in frustration, not in grief."

Proofs?

"You cannot "feel" compassion, compassion is the ability to help others, and you can totally be compassionate even though you have no empathy or sympathy for others. "

"But with all those souls inside of me,i not just have my compassion back..." "my compassion had dissapered!!"

He need a soul to feel compassion.And the first definition of compassion you get on the internet is this one "a strong feeling of sympathy and sadness for the suffering or bad luck of others and a wish to help them"-https://www.google.com/amp/s/dictionary.cambridge.org/amp/english/compassion.

"As an autistic person, I know this from personal experience."

I dont mean to be disrespectfull or albeist ...but how..your autism helped you to realize that compassion has another definition...?

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