Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-29788596-20160906011125/@comment-35757757-20190708160415

Evilwizard89013 wrote: MML!opinions!Fun!Chocolate! wrote: Evilwizard89013 wrote: It feels like the whole "Cross out the faces" is more of what MML said, a point, and they could of even crossed the picture around the time of the plan being put together. Now that's not to say Chara was always in the right or not the "hope" the monsters believed, tbh they were pretty screwed in terms of making friends your not related to.

Asriel even said: "I'll be honest Frisk, Chara wasn't the best person." which means that the "Plan" could have been just a minipulated excuse to kill all the humans that did them wrong. But it also stands to reason that Charas trust was in asriel alone and the "X Picture" could of been easily a stress induce tantrum (teens be like dat) if we think like that, then it gets more clear.

Chara had a plan to kill, which means that they had the "Determination" to kill. Which could also give the reason as to the no win answer in the end of genocide. They tried giving the real choice to erase or not to asriel but he didn't take it, which could be why they just outright boot Frisk and just erase anyway. Because that's what there newfound purpose is, to just kill untill there's nothing left, and Chara doesn't want one descision to ruin there plan again. ...I think the point flew over your head

Especially since I’m a Chara is good person

I’m trying to say it’s just Toby Fox trolling players who thought they could just forget that the genocide run ever happened and go back to thinking they’re still “The Heroes”. The picture represents the genocide run, and is there as a reminder of what you’ve done.

And I’m pretty sure the thing about Chara not being the greatest person was because Asriel probably idolized them. He probably thought they were perfect, when really they have flaws like anybody else. And your leap in logic from “Not the greatest person” to “Manipulated Asriel and wanted to kill all of humanity” is kind of nonsensical. Asriel knew what the plan was, too. And he said in the tapes that they were only gonna kill SIX humans. Also, Asriel’s line about Chara is kind of similar to Monster Kid’s line about Undyne when you save them on a true pacifist run, except they actually say worse about Undyne than Asriel did about Chara (they call her “kinda mean”). If that’s the case, why not villainize Undyne? I’m pretty sure she was actually the one who wanted to wipe our humanity (Well, she plans to wage war on them in the endings where she becomes queen. Still has more implication that Chara because with Chara Asriel says that the plan will only involve killing six humans specifically. He flat out says that. There’s no implication they wanted to kill all of humanity without going into Sans is Ness levels of wild speculation. AND YOU DO NOT WANNA GO TO SANS IS NESS LEVELS).

And you just made up everything in that final paragraph didn’t you? I’M A HARDCORE UNDERTALE NERD AND THERE’S NOT EVEN ANY IMPLICATION FOR ANY OF THAT

And where would they get the picture from when they were still alive?

USE YOUR BRAN PLEASE

Ugh... Why are people so desperate in trying to prove Chara is evil by taking speculation into too wild territories to the point where it makes no sense anymore and making up stuff that was never even implied to have happened in game?

...It’s because they can’t except when they’re in the wrong, isn’t it?

How pathetic

You kill everyone in the game, and try to use a character as a scapegoat so you don’t have to feel guilty

Even when that goes against the point of the game

I guess some people never get the point

...Like how you said you think the picture thing is more of what I said when what you said afterwards had nothing to do with it

My explanation had basically nothing to do with Chara besides them appearing in the picture and the genocide run’s ending. Other than that, I’m basically saying that the picture doesn’t even exist in the game’s universe and it’s just the game’s way of reminding you that it remembers what you did and you can’t erase the past so easily

Stop trying to act like I support pointless Chara blaming and stop ignoring everything else I’ve commented on this thread recently because they show that I’m against it. Seriously I'm on both sides but see that the winning one is the good Chara, when I said in that second part that the picture could of been before the plan. It was in referance to the picture in Toriel's and Asgore's houses. In the genocide run the picture in Asgore's house has the picture with the scribbles on it, so thats where i got the implication.

As for the "minipulation" theory, I got that from asriel when he said at the end of pascifist at the flower bed when he said: "Frisk, why did you even come here? You know the legend right, 'Travlers who climb MT. Ebott are said to disapear' Frisk, why would you ever climb a mountain like that? Was it foolishness, Fate? or...."

He goes on to say: "I know why Chara climbed the mountain, it wasn't for a very happy reason. ​​​"

He then says: "Frisk, I'll be honest with you, Chara hated humanity." That means that they had no problem killing only six humans because they prefer monsters anyway, the problem was still Asriel not willing to go all the way with the plan. Chara had the best intentions, for monsters, but as for humans they problably would go as far as to just stick with the monsters and mabey even fight a second war for them if needed.

All that means is that Chara hated humanity but had a soft spot for humans, the only reason they descide to make an impossible answer at the genocide ending is because they tought it was there newfound perpose.

I was a little surprised by the replie you gave, I just give info, and to say I just made it up only means you didn't care enough to actualy fact check it yourself.

When you want to give an opinion on something but won't except others then there's no point in even discussing it.

it just makes it lessfun and interesting for evryone.

Since when was there implication that the picture in Toriel and Asgore’s house had scribbled on it? None of the flavor text indicates that

And how does “Chara hated humanity but had a soft spot for humans” make any sense?

And I only said you made up the stuff yourself because you have no indication those were theory speculation things and didn’t put any evidence behind them and basically state Them in the same way somebody would say a fact. Plus, the speculation doesn’t even make sense. I still don’t get it

And What do you mean you gave info if it’s speculation? At least say that it is instead of trying to present it as if it was fact.

Also I just want to point out you didn’t actually address any points I brought up...

Look, I have no problems with people’s opinions as long as they don’t act like they’re facts. But this is a discussion about a character being considered good or evil, not just sharing your opinion on if they are or not

I’m just pointing out holes in the points people try to make when we they say something that just seems foolish and share my thoughts

I can except people’s opinions as long as they don’t claim it’s fact, but that’s not the point of this discussion

Also, your points can be proven wrong by facts. Like how there’s no indication that there’s were scribbles on the picture

Though what I only just remembered is that Undertale isn’t about generic good and evil. Even Flowey had a backstory. Why are we putting these labels on the characters then?