Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31536324-20190117214835/@comment-33883848-20190221223026

."Firmness of purpose has nothing to do with this form of firmness of purpose." - MagomaevaAnima How so, why, and when was this malarky confirmed?"

I didn't mean that, i meant that in the context of ut, dt is not a "firmess of purpose"in general but specifically the firmess to change FATE and the game doesn't explicitly state which fate Alphys is talking about but given the context and dt's first definition"the will to keep living", thats likely death. That's surely a fate common to all humans, which push them to have the "resolve to change "it, which only make sence if the fate in question is death

"As well as the blatantly demonstrated firmness of purpose via the Monsters."

WTF is that again?? Where did they??? Are you AGAIN talking about Asriel's fight?? Aren't you tired to use this argument again and again? Especially considering that we don't know if Frisk has a lot of dt because they want to live or to live on to save the world, or simply save the world, plus nothing implies the worlds destruction is really a "fate".

Give me please other arguments than this one please

"If one can be extracted, all can be extracted, to have the others be inextractable with no real sensible reason for such a difference makes no sense "

But in the game ONLY dt was extracted, If anything else could be extracted from souls, then Alphys would extract it. After all this make sence:personality isn't something we can extract as this is a part of a person, dt is just a feeling that can be renewed. the game only suggests that only dt can be extracted

"And how exactly does this mean much of anything?"

Are you really that dumb seriously???? WHY DT WOOULD BE A TRAIT IF IT ALLOWS THE SOULS TO PERSIST WHILE NONE OF THE OTHER TRAITS CAN ALLOW SO????

"Now THIS is a point that makes sense."

Exactly, if it was a trait, it wouldn't be so special

"How so, why, and when was this malarky confirmed?"

Because if the "resolve to change fate"wasnt related to death as the "will to keep living", that wouldn't allow the souls to live on after death. After all ONLY the will to live on can allow you to live on while you're dying, Flowey is a perfect example of that "But as long as I was determined to live, i could come back "

"SAVE goes to the most determined entity in the Underground. Humans have more DT than monsters, so it makes sense that in a land of Monsters a human would gain this ability regardless of their trait."

WTF you all wants from me?? One is saying that Frisk's trait is dt because they have the save load power and the other one is saying it doesn't matter as all humans are more determined than monsters?? Anyways there's absolutely NO reason for the save load ability to only work in the underground, after all why would it?? Especially when the barrier is destroyed?? Especially when Frisk can use it when they return to the surface in the neutral end, especially that theres really likely different variations of dt amoung humans.

"And where is this information coming from?"

Please stop to pretend to be that dumb. We all know Frisk had not lot of dt on the surface as they have no save point on the surface, as you CANT reload on the surface. Plus, this save load ability doesn't depends on the trait at all, after all, Frisk is not the single red soul of the world, so please stop to use this argument

"Destiny and Fate, while interchangeable, are not the same thing."

I don't think Toby would make extensive research about subtle differences of words while fate and destiny as often used as synonyms "Destiny, sometimes referred to as FATE (from Latin fatum – destiny), is a predetermined course of events.[1][2] It may be conceived as a predetermined future, whether in general or of an individual."-Wikipedia

And destiny IS related to the finality as death

And i dont know where you got your definition of dt but according to Cambridge dictionary, fate is: "what happens to a particular person or thing, especially something final or negative, such as death or defeat:" https://www.google.com/amp/s/dictionary.cambridge.org/fr/amp/anglais/fate

"Perseverance: You're stuck on a hard level, so you keep playing to learn every trick and trap it has, learning how to beat it as you do."

Sign:https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/perseverance ": perseverance is an effort to do or achieve something despite difficulties, failure, or opposition : the action or condition or an instance of persevering : "

STOP WITH THOSE PERSONAL DEFINITIONS

" it's positive emotions and empathy he can't feel. That "Joy" he feels is sadism, a twisted form of joy so to speak."

1.sadism is still a joy 2. He literally says that the monsters's companionship was "amusing",which means he truly feel joy 3.he also can feel hope as he literally says "I wasted weaks with this king HOPING I would feel something" 4.Absolutely nothing implies he can't feel positive emotions besides love and compassion

"Except they've been there since the start of the game, where we name them. It makes no sense."

WTF?? This is what you're saying that doesnt make literally any sence as Chara is literally saying they appears multiple times when anyone call their name, not a single time when the player name them. That coincides with the fact that Frisk return to their save point or wake up when they hear Asgore calling Charas name as if it was Charas doing

"No it doesn't. He was injected with it."

youre a really desperate case. For the final time:

JUST BECAUSE HE WAS INJECTED OF DT DOENST MEAN THAT HE CANT FEEL HIS OWN DT AKA WILL TO KEEP LIVING, HE ALSO CLEARLY SAYS HE WAS "DETERMINED TO LIVE "WHEN HE WAS DYING JUST BECAUSE HE FEARS TO DIE

AND THATS NOT BECAUSE AMALGAMATES ARE INJECTED WITH DT THAT THEY CANT FEEL THEIR OWN DT AND ITS NOT BECAUSE ANY MONSTER IS INJECTED OF DT THAT IT CANT FEEL IT OWN DT

"Except they're outright stated to live their own life after the end of the Pacifist Route, meaning this is false."

That's not related with anything at all, i was talking about the fact that Frisk never do anything to ACHIEVE their goal without our control

"THE VERY FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD IS A DETAILED EXPLANATION OF WHY THE BALL GAME PROVES THAT DT=RED SOUL."

That was all non sense which went from the basis that dt is the red soul. Thats literally completely non sence, like LITERALLY. The ball game is pretty clear:the red soul is the combination of all traits without mentioning any dt, dt isn't even mentioned as part of this trait. And during the ball game, all the colors are associated with a soul's trait. Perseverance is purple, green is kindness etc... but it never colors dt in red, but theres something it does color in red:the word "ball game", since its written under quote marks, it seems to be a metaphor,the ball game is a game that includes all the 6 traits, so Frisk's soul is the "ball game"or the combination of all the 6 traits

.

"This is nothing but nonsense."

Are you talking about your arguments????

After all, where is implied that Frisk's soul is dt?? And where is said that just because they shows a lot of dt, their soul is dt? Where is it even said that dt is a trait at first place? If this soul is only described as a power but not as a trait then it doenst matter how much dt Frisk shows, their trait isn't dt. Thats just a feeling they strongly shows upon SOME circumstances, not the way they commonly behaves aka their personalitys trait. Theres literally NO indication that the dt is a specific trait and even less that its the red soul

Plus yellow is MUCH more a better color that fits dt than red:the save points are yellow and Flowey got the exact same yellow when he was injected of dt(his petals's color doesnt match the color of all the other golden flowers while it matches the save point's color)