Board Thread:Wiki Discussion/@comment-27662991-20160123181044/@comment-24828059-20160317154556

Invader Jib wrote: Xenons wrote: Prinzessin Alice wrote: That was one long text to read...and i think i know what you mean...

BUT I could never forgive the one who killed Sans!

I liked Sans!

But noooooooo, there is Chara with that cute little sharp thing.

And then he/she/it killed everyone...

Call me picky here, but i won`t like a person who did all these things because she is dead and the Chara we know is not the Chara, the Undertale Chara-cters know! (Sorry, I had to do this.)

Even when she is not that evil...I havend heard a thing she ever said...Ok, probably the recordings...but nothing that shows her personality.

I could stop hate her as much as i do now...but i don`t know enoght about her to say if i could like her or not. But that's exactly what I was talking about. It's not Chara killing Sans and the others, but the player themselves. Chara has no control on you, since that's why you she wants your soul at the end of Genocide. She needs it in order to gain the control.

Now you could argue that she kills the rest of the monsters after you kill Flowey, and everyone at the end of Soulless Pacifist, but be honest with yourself. Do you honestly believe you deserve a good ending after slaughtering the entire Underground yourself AND guiding Chara into this ("With your guidance. I realized the purpose of my reincarnation.") ? Besides, 90% of Geno players would have killed the remaining monsters too, if they were given the possibility, so Chara basically ends everything faster. What people often forget is that Chara had no problem with feeding posion to their adoptive father, or using their adoptive brother as a vessel to destroy humanity (leading to his death.) Regardless of the player making them worse, it's made clear that they were a pretty bad person before they even come in. Considering they're portryed as basically abusing Asriel, I find it kind of disturbing how people try to justify Chara.

I also don't find Chara particularly helpless. Who is it that tells the player how many monsters were killed,  and encourages them to keep killing? It's not like they weren't in on the plan from the beggining. That, and really, it's ultimately them who decides to destroy the world (even if they just decided to kill the player and leave the world, there's really nothing the player could do about anyway.)

Of course, I don't find any of this to be a bad thing as character. It's good to have someone to root against, and the stuff about their bio (such as their motivation or why they came to th undergroudn in the first place) is pretty interesting in it's ambiguity. I knew someone was going to mention that. Oh boy, here comes another wall of text.

It's not actually said that Chara intentionally put buttercups in Asgore's pie. All we know is that she and Asriel put buttercups instead of cups of butter and that Chara later laughed it off. Just because she laughed it off there, it doesn't necessarily mean she enjoyed seeing Asgore in pain. As a matter of fact, there are several characters that laugh it off when they are in situations like death or distress (such as Toriel, Flowey, Snowdrake's dad).

Although combining her soul with Asriel's was not the best idea, she had no intentions to lead Asriel to his death. In fact, if Asriel hadn't held back, she might have even broken the barrier after finishing her job and let monsters rule the surface. Sure, killing people is something bad, but, as I said before, she didn't just wake up one day and said "Let's kill everyone!". The people in her village must have done something incredibly bad to her to lead her to get to this decision.

Also, abusing Asriel? Where is that stated? I admit, it was a dick move that she valued revenge on humans more than her adoptive brother's thoughts about her plan, but considering Asriel constantly saying that he cares for Chara and that she's the only one to understand him, she most likely about Asriel to a good extent. Not to mention Asgore seeing the same feeling of hope as Frisk's in her eyes, which suggests she had good intentions as well.

As for the second point, you're right, she does encourage you to kill people, but... are you forgetting that this happens only in the Genocide Route? Chara follows you in some way through the entirety of the game, whether it be Neutral, Pacifist or Genocide. However, the only time where she makes statements about killing is when she sees you killing. There isn't a single time where she tries to deceive you while playing Pacifist. Now, I'm not saying that she was a good person while in death, but the game makes it clear that your guidance is what matters in what she'll become in the end. If you finish Pacifist and not True Reset the game, she'll leave everyone live their lives peacefully. If you finish Genocide, you pretty much tell her that her thoughts about killing were right.

One thing from your post that really bothers me is "there's really nothing the player could do about anyway". Well, perhaps, maybe, not kill almost the entire Underground with their own hands before leading Chara into finishing it off?