Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-37596191-20181123045247/@comment-30937172-20181124011156

TheHumanAmbassador wrote: Sure, the player commited genocide among the monsters. We didn't say the player was absolutely blameless. Just because you say Chara is blameless in terms of Genocide and the player is totally guilty, and I say Chara is guilty, does not mean I claim the player is totally blameless in terms of Genocide.

So let's take a look at Chasriel's situation. So, Chara comes up with a plan to take six SOULs, combine it with their own to get seven, and free everyone. So, they make their wish to see the flowers to have a reason for Asriel to leave. Simple, right? Well, here's the problem-Why didn't they just put the body down once they reached the Surface? Nobody would notice, they can't reach the Surface. Now, you might be thinking:"Yes, they will, once the Barrier breaks and they see what happened!" But, the fact that the Barrier breaks will give away what they've done either way. This is irrelevant, and by that time, the plan will have succeeded anyway (since, you know, the whole plan ENDS with breaking the barrier?)

So, Chara had essentially NO REASON to keep carrying the body. They MUST have done it BECAUSE that would make the humans attack. This would be to show Asriel just how "bad" humans actually are, to make him more willing to despise them, and kill them. Asriel already agreed to the six SOULs plan, but Chara wanted more than that. They wanted to destroy ALL of humanity. ...Now, to someone like, maybe Chara, perhaps even that may appear to be justified:After all, the reason why Asgore didn't want to free the monsters was because he knew that if they did, the humans would just attack again. However, the fact stands that they knowingly maniuplated Asriel to fulfill their desires, and saying the entire race deserves total desctruction because of one village is not a good thing at all. Especially when you consider the actual war was indeed justified. (By the way, that one didn't end in total annihilation for anyone.)

But, what about the actual game? Well, Chara's learned from last time. They want a willing partner. Someone who will help them achieve their goals. They guide you.. But they only really guide you a lot when it's the Genocide Route. In the Pacifst Route, a FROGGIT does a better job than Chara does. (Froggit subtly reveals the way to spare Toriel, sparimg her even when her name isn't yellow, though he doesn't explicitly say TORIEL, just someone you'll meet someday. Chara, however, just gives a cryptic question asking if you can give mercy without fighting or running away, and even then, only after you killed her and reloaded. They don't seem eager to do a Pacifist Run.)

Even if you agree to destroy the world, Chara still gives the exact same speech about consequences. It's clear Chara just wants you to give up your SOUL so the Soulless Pacifist Ending could happen. This is also why they suggest another path if you do a Genocide Run the second time.

Chara DOES favor Genocide over Pacifist. They're evil in that regard. But it is indeed true that it is ultimately us who kills the vast majority of the monsters (Sans, Asgore, and Flowey being the exceptions)..

Wait. But.. We only killed a little over 100 monsters. But tale a look look at Asriel breaking the Barrier.. There exists around 300 souls. We only killed 1/3rd of the monsters!

...Even still, we took the path. They showed us the way, but it was still our choice to follow that path. They gave you an idea, and you took it.

Frisk/Player and Chara are BOTH responsible for the Genocide Route. They're BOTH evil in that route.

And no, Toby isn't guilty. Freedom of choice makes the game more realistic. If someone, let's say Kris, kills another (who's completely innocent) with a weapon, who's guilty:The killer, or the one who made the weapon? ..Now, say that someone else, let's call them Susie, TOLD them to do it? Then they're BOTH guilty, right? The one who did it, AND the one who suggested they do it? Kris AND Susie? But the maker of the weapon, Radiation Inc, is completely innocent.

The same is the case here. Frisk is guilty because they killed over 100 monsters. Chara is guilty because they steered us in that direction. And that's it. I completely agree. I didn't know what I was evenn thinking on blaming Toby Fox on all of this. But still, I think blaming everything on the player seems a bit hypocritical, but yet I do agree it IS the players fault for genocide.