Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31536324-20190117214835/@comment-32182236-20190215180853

"I mean, where WOULD he put it? There are no logical checkpoints in this battle, unlike in the OF battle. I've said it numerous times already, he preferred the feels, rather than rigid logic. And thus, I also feel like to him, Undertale is finished, and he won't be coming back to it anymore. Which he also more or less stated himself already: https://www.deltarune.com/help/"

He stated the world will remain untouched. There won't be a sequel. ...But there will be a prequel.

Toby Fox also stated that there WILL be another game set in Undertale's world:It was the final stretch goal of his kickstarter. And he CAN'T be talking about Deltarune, because one of the things he says is he'll work on the script after the completion of Undertale, and he's revealed he's worked on Deltarune since 2012.

If there's no other game that will be worked on, that means Toby Fox is a fraud.

"There is a difference between making an engaging story and world building. Besides, he used glass tiles to fix sprite issues. Doesn't seem like the act of a person who is taking the logic of his game all that seriously."

We never see said tiles in natural gameplay.. Unless we walk out of bounds ourselves.

Well, we do, actually.. Specifically, the tiles that lead to So Sorry!! Once again, a bug that eventually became canon! :3

Aside from all of that, I suppose that means you argue that Toby ISN'T skillful? In that case, what makes you think he'd think of how cliched it would be to have Frisk get a DT boost and save the day? Wouldn't that require him to, oh, I dunno.. Actually be skilled at storytelling?

You're being inconsistent. Is he good or not?

"Well I mean, if you want to explain how this world works by 100% adhering to the canon, then by all means, go for it."

..That's exactly what we're trying to do. That's what the truth is. I'm looking for canon, not a bunch of headcanons. Theories rely on truth, not a fantasy.

"But Toby is definitely a part of the equation, so we must ask ourselves, do we want to uncover the FULL truth (which might help us identify which parts of the game could just be up to our own interpretation, as opposed to being rigidly canon), or do we wanna have fun with the plot and treat it according to our own logic? (which boils our task down to forming complex multi-topic theories and then comparing them with each other)"

The latter is what you do if you're looking for fanfic material. The former is what you do if you're actually trying to solve the work in question. And since this is a theory thread, and not a thread for coming up with fanfiction, we are to do the former.

..By "your own logic", you did mean whatever kind of logic works, right? Like looking for possible references and building upon them, expanding the world as much as we can?

"But it wouldn't if they didn't make the sequel. And Toby isn't gonna make a sequel, I'm sure of that by now."

As I said, he is going to make another game. If he doesn't, Toby needs to give everyone's money back, because everyone deserves a refund, since they paid for something and didn't get it!

"It certainly factors him in. Besides, if guessing the author is not okay, then I guess making up head canons solely to unify various parts of the game without any proof is not okay either (like, thinking the other traits can also be extracted, despite there being no proof for this). As both involve guessing (educated guessing)."

One is testable, the other isn't. Falsifiability is very important in science, and it's important here too. By the way, remember how I logically showed that if DT is the seventh trait, the six other traits HAVE to be physical, since, well.. They literally make up the seventh one? Of course, I acknowledged we didn't prove the premise yet, but it's less of a headcanon then you think.

And DT so far is the only trait that fits these three criteria:

1-It must be a combination of the six traits. (Red Flag #1 states that you used ALL of them. It's not none, it's all. This is absolute.)

2-Frisk must demonstrate this trait throughout ALL the routes. (Else they'd have a different SOUL trait in the route in question.)

3-Being yourself is a part of it. (Red Flag #2, this tells us something about what KIND of integrity we're dealing with.)

You see? I present logical arguments, and make a testable claim. You just guess stuff about Toby instead. That would be akin to me trying to figure out how the universe works by trying to find out how a god would have made it. (Which people actually did before the Scientific Revolution.)

"Please, try explaining what Mad Dummy meant about his cousin, about how ghosts work when possessing and when fusing with a physical object, as well as what he said about other monsters. I'll try using some other person's argument to show how many exceptions there are in his own words, if they're meant to uncover to us how monster and ghost bodies work. If you disprove me, excellent, I'll have something to use against them. If not, I win the argument here (and lose against them). You can use this to gather evidence and write down your conclusions: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B6gS2LPXdIc5Zll6YzVna3dZQms"

Okay, if I understand correctly, what I need to do is create a unified rule system, explaining all four of Mad Dummy's encounter dialogue, plus Glad Dummy?

...I'm game for that. You can send in the contradictions!

Here's what I have so far, though. This should solve AT LEAST half of the supposed arguments, I'd say.

Ghosts are incorporeal beings:They're a special kind of monster. They're not dead monsters, because dead monsters don't persist past death. They're almost certainly not dead humans either, because Asgore should have captured those SOULs. Thus, they're just a kind of monster. Sure, when we think of ghosts, we think of dead spirits, but when we think of monsters, we think of evil creatures that wish to scare us. Our legends don't fit what Undertale argues these beings are.

These ghosts have the ability to possess vessels, in the same way that a wraith might possess a human. Similarly, just like a wraith, they can be forcefully sent out of their body-They can be scared out of their body (Talked to the Dummy), like what an exorcism is supposed to do, their body can just be killed (Killed the Dummy), and heartbreak (Ran Away from the Dummy) can do it too, as such a thing most likely simply breaks the connection between body and spirit. If the dummy gets bored.. They probably just left out of their own volition this time. It's the only way to end Frisk's pointless shenanigans.

As for Glad Dummy? Well you see, Mad Dummy was not just mad, but also.. determined! Determined to strike you down!

Determination is what awakened Chara from death. Determination is what brought Flowey back to life proving that non-living vessels can be given life. If too much is injected into monsters, it makes them melt with other living monsters, fusing them all together, and creating Amalgamates. And since the amount of DT a being can hold is determined by their physical matter (Alphys explains this to us), and ghosts are incorporeal, the cutoff for ghosts is likely FAR lower than it would be for other kinds of monsters. Mad Dummy got determined enough to end up fusing with the dummy he's possessing, becoming fully corporeal.

Got it?

"In other words, you're not assuming they the same thing? Isn't that already making an exception?"

They're only "exceptions" in the same way that game consoles are "exceptions" to the TVs you plug them in, or AR is an "exception" to the reality it overlays itself onto. All the rules of the overworld still apply, it's just that since we're battling with our SOUL and not our body (Our essence and DT are within the SOUL, and it has been removed from our body by the monster), and as hearts, SOULs can't exactly physically hold things, they need another way of attacking, using items, etc.

"That's just shifting the goalpost. Instead of asking about the HUD itself, we're now asking about teleportation."

We would have needed to ask that question anyways. Sans can canonically teleport. Did you miss Sans' warning about having a bad time?