Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-27136653-20180801023530

"Besides, the monsters likely know you're a human, as the monsters in New Home seem to indicate, and Toriel's phrase about this."

Just because some do, doesn't mean that all do. The monsters that do recognize us clearly state so, the Froggits somehow seem unshaken about our presence (probably due to them realizing that you can't hurt them; after all, they know a lot about the game in general, so they're most likely an exception too), and the monsters at the end can be explained with the Asgore argument. But the rest doesn't seem to have any reason to be so quiet about this fact while acting so normally at the same time. If they knew, they shouldn't be offering their services to us. And pretending doesn't seem to be in their nature. So the only explanation for their hospitality is that they simply don't know.

"Not according to some quotes from the game itself."

Well then, show me. It's not like I missed anything. I probably have an explanation for them stashed somewhere at the back of my head.

"Monster food heals as well, so perhaps green bullets and monster food use similar or the same kind of magic."

That still doesn't mean everyone can use it.

"No universal rule can have exceptions, PERIOD."

You can describe any phenomena in the game as a rule with exceptions, for the sake of simplicity. You then additionally explain those exceptions and you've got the entire game described.

"If there's clear exceptions, it's not a rule."

Yes. But there's always a reason behind the exception, that differentiates it from the rest of the cases. In this case, it is the nature of the amalgamates. That could very well be the explanation. And so, the universal rule could be, that no two monsters can speak at the same time, excluding amalgamates.

And then we can blame the existence of this rule on the HUD and move on.

"There's a thing called safety lessons."

The existence of such subject is assuming the humans have always had this power, which would give the monsters enough time to get used to it and start studying it. To even figure out how to dodge, how to shatter buttons, et cetera. Explain that.

"then how far-fetched is it for them to be taught that turns exist in some physics class?"

That's true only if the above is true, or if monsters themselves also experience turns even though no human is around. If the humans have for example gained this ability only after Gaster's infamous experiment as some theories are claiming, and if monsters themselves don't have this due to their lack of DT, then the existence of such school subject is impossible. And mind you, you haven't proven they have this subject yet, so don't try to use this as an argument that my original assumption is wrong.

"Given the lifespan of monsters, just about every monster will be alive to see a human appear"

Implying what? There's plenty of reasons why even the monsters eligible for such case don't recognize you now. Maybe they were old enough to meet them, but didn't get a chance to, or did but didn't realize they were a human (so they wouldn't recognize you now either), or did the first time, but for some reason forgot the second time. Same goes for the HUD.

"I'm looking for the CAUSE. The REASON."

Gravitons.

"What do you mean "symmetry"?"

What do you mean "charges?"

"You got the role flipped."

Yes. σ(x)*σ(p) ≥ ħ/2 and ħ/2 ≤ σ(x)*σ(p).

"Measurable =/= Explainable"

Then explain it.

"We didn't HEAR them shatter either. But we heard the barrier break."

Indeed. An overpowering noise.

"They wouldn't think to give their final wish to Toriel back in the RUINS."

No, that's not what I meant and you know that god damn well. I meant they did that after the barrier broke, but before Frisk woke up.

"Boss monsters persist for a few seconds, so we can say they're close to the amount required to fully persist, because of DT magic."

They're said to persist due to their life cycle. And I don't think the life cycle is DT-based. I don't think there is any DT flowing in between boss monsters. So rather, I think it is the energy of their life cycle being wasted on their soul that makes them persist.

Also, you are forgetting how powerful Undyne was, yet her soul didn't persist a single second. And on the other hand, the Dreemurrs weren't even trying that hard to stay alive, they both seemed to accept their demise (Asgore can even die willingly if you don't give him mercy - this is the case because he died at the same moment Flowey would have attacked him, which is a bit of a coincidence, his natural death occuring the moment someone else tries to kill him, don't you think?), yet their souls persisted.

"It offers the only reasonable explanation for the HUD we've got."

Here's an explanation for you: it's meta, and meta content is to be ignored. I don't believe neither. They didn't have enough time to learn any of this and nothing is ever a conspiracy by default.

"I already told you, freedom can also mean death."

Not like this. The context of the conversation CLEARLY implies they are talking about a literal freedom. Clearly, absolutely, meaning nothing else whatsoever. End of the debate. The end. Period.

"THEY encountered US"

We encountered them. Hence why the encounter sound played. And still, even if we didn't ask, the assuming part still works. They assumed we are young and didn't know the story yet (especially since we are a new face). Maybe, I dunno, Asgore allows the monsters to live there or nearby, and they are obligated to automatically tell the young about what happened there. Which would honestly explain Asgore's absence and his generally surprised face when he sees us.

"That works too. In which case, well, we still don't know what human essence would be contained within.. But it's more than likely within their body somewhere.."

Indeed. The physical matter. The essence always lingers to something physical. At least that's my hypothesis.

"You'd have to change your entire strategy for your SOUL to change."

IS it possible to change your entire personality, your entire being like that?

"Why can't there be a SOUL that uses a mixture of two fighting styles"

You know, this is one of the reasons I assumed red might just be a scrap category for souls that do not fit any of the other 6. After all, there's more personality types than just those 6 mentioned. Some may not come close to any of them, hence why this one is needed. Though, I don't think it's used for people that do not fit any of the other six perfectly, nor that only people that are "prefectly balanced" fit into this scrap category. The dividing line is somewhere in between, I dare to say to maintain the same number of red soul people as there is of any other soul type.

"Who said that the human that we see as patience NOW was patience in the womb?"

So you think the soul color of children can change? Kinda like in the movie Golden Compass with the demons? That would be an interesting thought, but Frisk's soul stays the same, despite going through many challenges along the path, which kinda speaks against such possibility (and the soul modes don't count, since those are applied by the monsters).

"The SAVE points give you DT, not doing all those random things the narrator's talking about."

You sure about that? I don't see how that can be the case, nor how my explanation might be wrong.

"and we never see Frisk playing with any leaves"

They don't play, they crinkle through them (with their legs).

"The SAVE points are also in quite odd locations for such narration-Why does only ONE leaf pile do it, and not, say.. Some of the other leaf piles?"

Well, what says other things also don't fill us with determination? Maybe we can't know they do only because there's no save point window to remind us that they do. And determination itself is only relevant in relevant situations, such as accessing something you need DT for, hence why we aren't reminded this when inspecting other objects. Although, if the save point can heal us, maybe it can access our DT too.

"If we weren't there, we wouldn't be seeing Flowey."

I don't think that is necessarily a rule though.

"Chara is connected to our essence."

Meaning both would hear it, meaning it is still rude to talk about someone who is listening, regardless of context.

"Chara's been gone for a long time, then think Chara rose from the grave as some sort of zombie?"

Why do people talk to the graves of their deceased relatives? Surely they've gone mad?

"AND that Chara has the ability to RESET, when Frisk is the ONLY one that showed that ability at the time?"

Hence why I speculated that Flowey is actually talking to the player there.

"Seriously, there were holes for beams of sunlight for agriculture, monsters have magic, and metals exist underground"

Explain the trees.

"while also letting 100% of the light shine through to the Underground"

No, the barrier is generating light. Reflecting is the exact opposite of letting it through. It's either transparent, or the room is pitch-black. If neither, it is generating its own light. What are you even on about?

"I've lost count of the number of times you've tried to use Toby as an argument."

Because he programmed the game? In the laziest way possible? He himself said he had almost no idea what he was doing at times and that he doesn't even know any programming languages really.

"The game is an obstacle, and that's also called "BALL"."

Also known as "minigolf."

"and in every case that BALL existed in the messages, it was the obstacle"

Which means you are wrong, because the ball is not an obstacle, obviously. It's an object that allows us to win the game. The obstacle is the difficulty of putting the ball into the hole.

"About right, minus the Glitchtale fear."

The absolute psychological basis is survival, which is connected to fear.

"So, are modes replicas of traits or not? Healing ourselves isn't liked to green mode."

Green attacks, green mode, green souls. This particular color gives us the most info about itself. I think every aspect of it counts. This is how I formulated my hypothesis, that green is causality. Shield and healing = reality disconnection + time reversal. You mark the area you want to unwind and then you follow so.

"Really though, this is more about time than space."

It's about spacetime. Cyan detects movement. It detects acceleration. Acceleration affects spacetime. And just so that you wouldn't say, since orange has a different color, it cannot simply be an inversion of cyan (which is funny, because since the 1.1 patch, cyan attacks are a bit more blue, meaning their color inverse is orange instead of red), it has to be something different, hence why I connected orange to energy. Getting hurt when not moving = orange energy building up in you.

"KR has nothing to do with the purple trait."

Or maybe everything. I think it does make sense. KR inflicts poison. Poison = persevering attack.

"Just like HP doesn't have to do with the yellow trait, or a lack of it having to do with the red trait."

KR seems more like a spell than a simple distinguishing mark to me.

"Once again, perservearance (trait) has nothing to do with bouncing between strings."

It however has a lot to do with being restricted to strings. You are being streamlined into a particular action. To persevere, you already know your goal, already know what must be done, you employ your full knowledge and do it.