Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-25983468-20160329120934/@comment-27701762-20160331230214

RobertDaller wrote: I think Sans probably had reset before Flowey showed up.Whether that be because he's a human/Ness or not, either way he seems to remember alternate timeliens, because of how much knowledge he has over them.Which likely means if Flowey and Frisk didn't exist, Sans would get the Determination.Granted he doesn't come back at the end of the game after dying, and only has one HP, unlike Undyne.But the thing is knowing about Save/load, kinda messed with his Determination, lowering it down a good degree.(Which could also explain the 1 HP.)Below Sans is probably Asgore and Toriel, I think Boss Monsters have some Determination as well, and are able to hold more than other Monsters, likely due to having more physical form.This would explain why their souls linger after death.It's possible that Sans has enough Determination to match some humans.Perhaps even the six humans that entered the Underground.(Which could explain why they were able to be kiled in the first place.)beneath beneath that is probably Undyne. Also, kinda sorta unrelated.Isn't it ironic Undyne, (the character who's name is literally UNDYING.) is in love with the character who has almost entirely (in some versions of the story entirely.) lost the will to live? I think you're conflating a couple of important concepts about the nature of the timelines.

The most important is the difference between "remembering" the timelines versus "having awareness" of them. I'll provide some examples to illustrate:

1a) If you kill Toriel and reload to a point before doing so, Toriel does not realize that she was killed in an alternate timeline.

1b) If you kill Toriel, then reload to a point before doing so, and then spare Toriel, Flowey discusses how you killed Toriel in the alternatie timeline.

2a) If Asgore kills you, you can tell him that he has killed you already. He will acknowledge it, but does not begin with any actual memory of killing you, nor is there any additional acknowledgement that he actually recalls killing you before.

2b) If you defeat Photoshop Flowey and kill Flowey, once you reload your prior save file Flowey already knows that the human souls will rebel against him, and thus will skip the fight.

In each case, only in example (b) do we see a character (namely Flowey) showing any actual memory of what happened. All you get from Asgore, Toriel, or any other character is a vague sense, which could probably be more accurately described as deja vu.

Sans's reactions accord to this awareness, and not memory. He always reacts in a somewhat surprised manner when Frisk shows foreknowledge. If he had actual memory of what is going on, then he would not need to feign being surprised: he would know that you've experienced these things already and remember them. Sans has a special awareness of the time changes, but this is insofar as he knows that those vague feelings of deja vu are not random or coincidental. Given that he merely has a special awareness, and not actual recollection, and also given that while Flowey loses the ability to save and reload, he fully retains the capacity to remember these alternate timelines (with the exception of a True Reset), the evidence lies squarely in the court of showing that Sans and all of the other monsters never had the ability to save and reload in any capacity.

It's entirely possible that there might be some tiny amount of determination within some of the monsters, including Sans. But there is clearly some sort of threshold, both in terms of how much determination a monster can handle and how much is needed to control time itself, that the monsters would be unable to reach.