Talk:Chara/@comment-32182236-20180221133449/@comment-32182236-20180427015129

Alright, first I'll explain my reasoning on why I didn't change the topic. If Chara didn't let us save, and we're FORCED to close the game and reload, and Flowey didn't want us to do that, it leaves Chara. (It wasn't us, we had no choice but to close the game, and closing the game means exiting the timeline:Bringing everything back to how it was in the previous save for when you reload.)

Now, onto the ending.

You "shouldn't" open the game? You mean you should just leave the world on pause for all eternity? That's what happens when the game is closed. The world does not progress. In fact, you could even argue that the moment the game is closed, the world already reverted to the previous SAVE. And you HAVE to close the game. You cannot proceed. Your only choice... Is to reset. Chara's forcing you to do it. There is NO other option. It's not like the Genocide Route, which Chara ISN'T forcing you to do. (I know there are some who argue they do.. I'm not one of them. Frisk is evil in a Genocide Route too, perhaps even just as evil as Chara themselves. We're the ones doing the killing after all for like 99% of the run.. Then again, maybe we're closer to Flowey in this regard..) So, you're forced to reset because that's what Chara wants. That's my case. Unless you're seriously arguing that the DOG, of all things is responsible for this. (Then again, that might not be that out of character..)

I never said you said that frog doesn't count. The game ITSELF makes it clear the tuto-frog doesn't count. He got away, just like Snowdrake. So.. What's the difference between the two?

Actually, the player themselves aren't exactly canon within the game's lore. Maybe it's better to say that the player is just Frisk, then to say Frisk is just us. There is no player. Well, technically there is-But that's not consistent. Sometimes it's Frisk (our PC), sometimes it's Flowey.. Sometimes it's Chara. It's whoever has the most determination.

Think about it like this. We all know Link has his own personality. But.. Is the player and Link different? Are they clearly separated within Zelda canon? Of course not! We're supposed to roleplay Link! They're clearly just our character! (Fun fact-In the original NES game, you could "name" Link. But they have a true name.. Which is Link, of course. Just like what we think we're doing with Frisk, when in reality we're naming Chara.)

So, no, Frisk isn't some mindless zombie that's us inserted into the game. We literally don't exist. Frisk is the closest we have, as they're the playable character-Just like Link. And Ness. And Red. And.. Well, you get the point. (Basically, they're your overall protagonist.)

Now, onto the RPG meta. As I said before there is "sort of" a player. It's whoever has the most determination. Whoever has the most determination has a HUD to interact with. (Fun fact:This is why Flowey "already CHOSE that name"! They did! When they first awakened as Flowey, they entered in a name just like us! This is also why they can destroy our SAVE file, and why we can't see them LOAD. They control the HUD now. We can still somewhat see it, though, as a remnant of our abilities, when we first enter Flowey's World. Flowey can do the exact same thing to us, too.) They can see their stats. HP. ATK. DEF. GOLD. EXP. LV. All of them. Everyone has stats. Andwhen you see everything the world has to offer.. Numbers, lines of dialouge.. As you save and load, over and over, and continue seeing the world for what it really is.. It starts to become like a game. And you, the one who can play around with it.. Saving and loading at your will.. You're the player of this game. Hence, while there is no player in canon.. Frisk is still the "player".. Seeing the world as a game.. With those feelings from the stats increasing.. The RPG elements..

Just imagine it.. Say that one day, you shddenly discovered you could save and load the world AT WILL. And you started seeing a HUD.. Your stats.. The stats of everything you have, in an "inventory". This is exactly what happened to Frisk. The world is like a game. That'd all it is. So yes, Chara COULD be talking about the RPG incfluences. As Frisk sees the world as a game.. They TREAT the world like a game.

Now, yes. Chara wants to eradicate everyone. As I pointed out, Undying eventually leads to fighting Sans. If you spare Monster Kid, Sans lives. You failed to eradicate the enemy. The EXP boost was enough to get Sans to fight you. Same can be said for Mad Dummy, though in this case, he actually dies, so.. Yeah, Chara wants to eradicate everyone. Though, it is still strange why they don't are about tuto-frog.

Alright, Chara CAN'T predict the future? Okay, I have a SECOND theory, that RELIES on this fact. Remember, you said this yourself, if you're going to say Chara WOULD know what I'm going to say they don't, then go back to my first theory.

Chara didn't KNOW that Undyne would stop the fight if you spared Monster Kid. They didn't KNOW that Monster Kid couldn't be killed. They thought you let him run away for good. You let someone live. (Even though you had no choice, Undyne would save him anyay.) So yeah. You said you were going to kill everyone? Well, your actions don't look like it.

Frisk, I'm ditching you.-Genocide Chara

Oh that's right, I'm STUCK to you. *groan*

You're seriously suggesting that a human can literally destroy the entire world, a physical construct, with emotional distance? That's not how physics works! It only works on monsters because their SOUL is mostly made of magic! The world is a physical thing! There's no way Chara would be able to destroy the world if gaining the LV didn't get them power. And if you CAN destroy physical things like the world with emotional distance, then isn't emotional distance mechanically identital to strength? What makes it NOT the same thing as strength, if this is the case? Why can't we argue emotional distance LITERALLY makes you strong, if it lets you do all the things strength does?

By the way, Asriel will be strong because they'll literally be a monster with a human SOUL. That has unfathomable power, remember? Add six more SOULs to the mix, and... Let's just say you'll be a god of hyperdeath and leave it at that.

Directly BEFORE your quote, they also say "There is a reason you continue to recreate this world". But wait, we only recreated it once! We never recreated it a second time yet! It's clear this message is meant for those who continue the cycle, over and over. This does not fit a second time. This must be talking about a cycle. Chara must be mistaken. Maybe it's because they don't remember a True Reset, and only know we did it before because they have our SOUL. Which is Frisk's SOUL. Just like we are Ness. (But no, Frisk is not Ness.)

"You want to go back to the world you destroyed."

"Then what are you looking for?"

We already know the world is destroyed. If we don't want to go back, then what ARE we looking for? The next world? Oh, right, the thing I argued in another comment that Chara was LYING about, because it DOESN'T EXIST.

Yes, they thought you would erase the world. But even if you say no, they still blame you for it. Even after they KNOW that isn't what you were intending. (And yes, it's possible to honestly say no and still homestly do Genocide. In fact, if it weren't for Toriel, we might actually do that! Allow me to explain..)

(The intro makes it clear that there was a war between humans and monsters. This puts humans and monsters as enemies. Legends say those who climb never return.. Because they're killed.. DUN DUN DUN!!! So, we fall underground, and what's the first thing we see? Flowey tries to kill us! Froggit tries to kill us! Monsters clearly look like the enemy. We could be trying to kill the the monsters to save humanity! We're human, and monsters are the enemy because of the intro! It's a real path we could have taken! In fact, I would even say there probably exist players who actually did Genocide for THAT exact reason-Thinking the monsters were evil, "bad guys.." Lying, guilt-tripping you to avoid their defeat. Of course that's not how they're really like.. But you get the point, right? So why doesn't Chara consider THAT possibility?)