Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-27136653-20180228205701/@comment-32182236-20180310135744

"I don't see any real-world mountain staircases collapsing under their own weight. I'm still not sure what the problem is here. Carving stairs into the side walls would be much easier and less redundant. And Hotland's heat effects are questionable, but the staircase probably won't be made directly above where the magma is, would it? That would be a stupid idea."

I don't see any real-world mountain staircases period.

...The cliff's directly above the magma, though. So.. yeah, it would. Which is, as you said, a stupid idea. That's why they went for the elevator idea instead.

"No, by my logic, each great area they arrived to has received some name, and Asgore most likely named them all. And I don't think he like proclaimed it or anything, I think it was just generic nicknames he assigned to each one and then the names stuck. It would be pointless to name every single area like that, especially if that was their home. No need to assign them names, just call them by their dominant characteristics. On that note, we don't actually know the name of the area around Snowdin. But again, I will repeat, some 'fuzzy folk' has separated and founded their own city. Considering that many monsters cannot bear the coldness of that area, I don't think they stuck for too long. So someone had to lead them further. So Asgore did not loiter around for too long. Also, Asgore did not stay, obviously. So no, that argument is not valid."

Of course Asgore followed the rest of the monsters, and didn't stay too long. It doesn't take a week for Asgore to come up with a terrible name. Also, we all know how bad Asgore is at being good with names. We can't just say "Asgore wouldn't do that because that's not how you do names". The whole point is Asgore is bad at names! YES, he did it wrong! And what's the problem again? He gets just about everything wrong when it comes to names! Also, we do. It's called Snowdin Forest, according to the SAVE display. The entire area is actually called Snowdin.

"In general, I don't see the problem here. Asgore and the rest of the monsters had to find a good habitable zone, and everyone was free to stay anywhere they wanted (since having everyone crammed again in a single area was an idea they already tried out), ergo, they could branch out and do whatever they want. The monsters in the quiet area in Waterfall also live in a tiny sort of home, and yet, it has no name. Temmie village? Doesn't seem like a name to me at all, but considering the stupidity of Temmies, it wouldn't surprise me if Asgore actually did choose the name for them here. But as for the Snowdin folk, they didn't ask for a bad name, no one would. I don't see anything wrong with "Snowdin", it's not as bad as "Home", that's for sure here."

Temmies aren't the only residents of Waterfall. The entire Waterfall area is their home. The town, specifically, is where Naptablook, Undyne, and Nasptablook's cousin lived. (Yes, I'm aware Napstablook's cousin is who eventually became Mettaton.) Yeah, that place with the snail farm and Thundersnail? THAT'S the town where monsters live. Temmie Village only has Temmies. BecAUZE.. TEM VillAGE!!11!! CHEK IT OUT!! V1LLAGE.. OF TEM!!

"Well yes, because the action is done. But reading solely the first volume, it really seems like its discussing very recent events. Especially because of that last sentence. And if Gerson's memory is as fuzzy as he's saying, he wouldn't wait a thousand years to actually start writing all those books."

...How? The book NEVER says it was recent, at least not in the pages we can see. Besides, the very fact that it says "Volume 1" meant the author was planning on making a Volume 2, at least. So AT LEAST the events of Volume 2 must have already happened. Sure, sure, the book says when they reached the end of the caverns, they reached their new home, which is.. HOME. But, we've still been calling America "The New World" when speaking about history, despite the fact that it isn't really new anymore. The same can be the case here. Also, it might be fuzzy NOW, but what about a few decades ago? Just a little bit after Asgore got his hands on the sixth SOUL? (Or seventh, if you count Chara) Because somewhere around there's where I place Gerson making the history books. That's, of course, speculation. A much less speculative answer (that I also believe in) is this:He created the history books immediately after he became a historian. So, when did he become a historian? ...We don't know. Hence why my placement of just after Asgore getting SOUL number six is pure speculation.

"No, because that's the volumes 6 through 8. They're the most recent ones, written by someone living in Snowdin who was just curious about how souls work, so he asked some educated individual about the topic. That's what I think that is. It doesn't matter that it's labeled "monster history", it still conveys the message. Also, there's no proof of a 9th volume existing. Toby wrote it all down and yet, decided to keep it in? Despite choosing to turn a half of those volumes into an actual narrative? If a 9th volume existed, it would be there along with the rest. But it is not, there's no part 9. This is further evidenced by the fact that the previous volumes talk about things we start learning only at the very end of the game, when we start to discover Flowey's origins. And that's way after we've learned that Frisk is not the person we gave name to. So no, Chara's story would be before these three volumes, not after them. Simply because of how Toby constructed the game. Since that's what we're using to analyze these books anyways."

Unless Asgore created these books, that wouldn't make sense because labelling it "monster history" would be just plain wrong when it comes to naming stuff. And if Asgore DID make the books, it STILL wouldn't make sense, because it makes fun of Asgore's bad names. "Monster History" is supposed to be about monster history, not about random other stuff. So, we must provide an explanation on how this non-history information actually helps convey monster history. Why do we need to know this stuff to understand history?

Also, there's no proof of a 2nd volume existing. Toby wrote it all down and yet, decided to keep it in? Despite choosing to turn a half of those volumes into an actual narrative? If a 2nd volume existed, it would be there along with the rest. But it is not, there's no part 2.

...You see the problem with your logic yet? (Seriously, Volume 2 does not exist within the game files. If Toby can just not write down Volume 2, he can also just not write down Volume 9.)

By the way, who said we'd be reading all the volumes in order? It's very clear we weren't going to, since we skipped volumes 2 and 3. If your theory is correct, we'd be reading Volume 3 after Volume 4, as we're not supposed to learn about Chara until New Home. Which still means that we're not reading them in order. Therefore, using that line of reasoning creates an inconsistency in your manner of theorizing, as your own theory contradicts that rule you've came up with out of nowhere. (By the way, Volumes 6 and 7 actually convey info that we learn from the Waterfall plaques. Not stuff about Chara. But, we know this can't be referring to the war, because then it'd be in Volume 1. It's only Volume 8 that speaks of monsters being "Fallen Down", likely as a continuation of how monsters and their SOULs work.)

Also, something to the last sentence of that paragraph:"So no, Chara's story would be before these three volumes, not after them. Simply because of how Toby constructed the game. Since that's what we're using to analyze these books anyways."

That's just DEAD WRONG. That's NOT what we're using to analyze, PLUS we don't know how Toby constructed the game in the first place. We're using the entries themselves. Not our speculation on how the game came to be. Think of using these extra books the same way you'd think of looking at Entry 17. It's the same kind of thing. Stop using Toby headcanons and start looking at the game itself for your evidence. Analyze the books using.. THE BOOKS. And the rest of the game for context.

"Yes. So why did they stay for so long in Home then? That's the issue here. Alas, there's no kind of evidence of any kind to tell when exactly was each plaque written. You cannot use their supposed datings that you drew based on how you think the story happened to prove how the story happened. That's circular logic. See, I never tried to date the plaques. And if I did, I never, NEVER drew conclusions for it, because I knew that it's just speculations, and you cannot found any argument on just pure speculations. Unless you're making a one big speculation chain, which is called a headcanon."

They stayed in Home BEFORE the plaques were written. The plaques were written during the expedition, after they "feared the humans no longer" (Volume 4). We know this because of the reasoning I used earlier-If we date the plaques BEFORE they "feared the humans no longer", the plaques wouldn't be saying that another human will never come. Since how can they be afraid of something they're sure will NEVER happen? So, we've figured out that the plaques were written after Volume 4. But, of course, we need to actually prove that they were written before Chara's fall too instead of just saying they were. And that's easy. Using the EXACT SAME quote from the plaques. They're sure a human would never come. If they were written after Chara fell, that would make no sense whatsoever. Chara would be a living rebuttal of that statement. Therefore, the plaques were written before Chara's fall.

If A came before B, which came before C, than A came before C. Since the monsters feared the humans no longer before the plaques were written, which happened before Chara fell, that means the monsters feared the humans no longer before Chara fell. Simple as that. That's my foundation. And that disproves that they feared the monsters no longer because of Chara, since that would have to place the events of Volume 4 after the fall of Chara, and we've already proven this simply cannot be the case.

You see, I used the plaques THEMSELVES, plus Volume 4, to date the plaques, and then used that to come to my conclusion about the story. So, I used facts about the story. Stuff actually right there in the game.

"Hey, you want to see something interesting? https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B6gS2LPXdIc5ZDg2TExKdGc5RGc The "don't quote me on that one" applies to what she said about girls, since we all know how protective Undyne is of the fact that she's dating Alphys. But the rest is definitely telling something. As I said many times already, the information simply adds up. Just because Gaster was brilliant doesn't mean that the entire monster population was."

Yeah, modern technology! The technology to see whatever the humans are doing on the surface, and witness magical princesses!! SEE THOSE GIANT SWORDS TEN TIMES THE SIZE OF THE HUMANS!! NGAH!!!!! THIS IS SO AMAZING!!!! THE MOST MODERN TECHNOLOGY EVER!! ALPHYS!! LET'S GO WATCH SOME MEW MEW KISSY CUTIE!!! IT'S A TOTALLY ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF HUMAN HISTORY! /undyne impression