Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31981697-20170722123329/@comment-27136653-20170807215425

2.2) This is also how we've learned that the annoying dog created the world. Face it, not everything in the game has a deep meaning. Certainly NOT the final credits. I don't think Toby would try to hide such big secret in there. Besides, the game is about the underground, not the surface. So why bother with humans in the first place?

3) Do you really think they were addressing just one monster? This is exactly what I'm talking about, don't jump into conclusions. Chara didn't talk about one enemy. They meant the entire monsterkind, which was somehow hostile to them. But still, the true enemies were at the very end, which is why they might have chosen that word.

3.1) Point closed.

3.3) And yet, it is Chara's save that we're using.

3.5) Exactly. Point closed.

3.6) Oh, so now you agree with me? Also, it may not be a failed attempt, but rather just a message. The player pushes the joke button, which for SOME reason was there (apparently Chara hates the Snowdrake family or something), and the first time, Chara is like, ok, let's laugh. But Frisk doesn't. So the second time they're like, ok, so it's not funny, got it. Maybe the first one was kinda sarcastic. Because we DARED to push the button.

3.7) How can you be so sure that Flowey knew about the existence of a narrator? He believed Frisk's body was just an empty shell that Chara was wearing, so he didn't even suspect there might be two people in there.

4) Really? I would have thought the egg came first, not the chicken. /s

4.1) Then how is he able to teleport in that spot at all? Are there two Sanses?

4.1.1) Nope. First off, Sans said he has two jobs since we've just discovered his second job. He has more than two. Second, Undyne wasn't freaking out because she saw an illegal station. She freaked out because he was sleeping. She's his boss. And they're supposed to hunt humans. Third, she does know about 3 stations, and mentions it at the hotdog stand. Therefore, the hotdog stand is the illegal one. We got this information from her phone call. Wanna know what she says when we make a phone call at the first station in hotland?

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B6gS2LPXdIc5Tm5EdGZxbmNNUjg

She didn't address the station, she addressed him sleeping on duty.

4.2) Wrong again. He just wanted to reset. To do so, he would have to kill you first. Unfortunately, that kinda didn't work out as he planned, due to us being immortal for some reason. Do you know what is the very first thing he says in his supposed "god of hyperdeath" form? https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B6gS2LPXdIc5LVV0RmF5MnBBVm8

4.3 + 5) Maybe. But the backstory isn't important anyways, I was just pointing out that the biggest spoiler in the entire game is supposed to make you realize that whoever you've been playing as, wasn't crafted by your hand. You gave your character a name, but then you realize you didn't name THEM, but someone else, someone who's long dead. Why would Toby do this? Just to make Asriel say "You're not really ___, are you?"? I don't think he did it for that. Besides, it only confused people, so he must have had a very good reason.

I still think he wanted to break that assumption that we're roleplaying as Frisk, and instead point out that we're merely carrying out their actions.

4.6) So you agree with me that she gave it to you? Point closed.

4.8) "By barking with text-to-speech on, the dog accidentally programmed a whole game." Emphasis on whole. Ergo, Undertale.

4.10) Ok look. You can say that Chara fell down during the roman times, and that that happened just a few years after they were imprisoned underground, and that it has been 10000 years between Frisk and Chara. I don't see a problem with that. Except, you have no proof for it, and the game seems to imply otherwise, even if it's not giving us any proof either. We just know it's been at least a hundred years between Frisk and Chara, and a few millenia between Frisk and the war. So LOGICALLY, the simplest answer is that it HAS been a hundred years between Frisk and Chara, and a few millenia since the war. Just because that would put the moments of humans falling down into an awkward configuration doesn't mean that this theory is wrong. What do you know, perhaps no humans lived around that area until very recently (which is when the first human fell down). Just because the war happened THERE doesn't mean the humans lived there too. Perhaps the humans marched quite some distance to reach the monsters, or something killed all humans, whether a foreign invasion, or some disease which came from a Pandora's box that was set up to open if something were to happen to the monsters... Whatever.

4.11) And what if Frisk isn't controling their soul, but rather moving around with their entire body? I still believe that someone as smart as Sans could just hit Frisk to the head instead of targeting the soul and that would do the job.

4.13) Nearby obstacles? Or perhaps Frisk's desire to stay in the battle? After all, there is a flee option.

5.1) In dark rooms, we can still see Frisk, if I can remind you. But in Sans's case, he blocked even that. So I'm concluding he blocked the player's vision, because he's constantly trying to hide his actions from us. Whether it is him teleporting in Snowdin forest, or using shortcuts, or moving offscreen to die or something.

6) Look, he assumed we're Chara, and wanted to keep us in, even if it meant preventing us from getting a boss monster soul. He didn't have to assume anything, we did stray from our pacifistic ways nonetheless. In his omega form, he kept killing us over and over, since he was enjoying it. As Asriel, he wanted to reset everything. He wanted to prolong the fun he was having, but for that, he would first have to kill us. Unfortunately, that wasn't possible. Somehow. That's all Asriel is.