Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-30088034-20170108152544/@comment-30088034-20170114004531

Mabian wrote: Yes I&#039;m single wrote: '''Well this is undertale we're talking about. Souls, magic spells, transformations... anything could happen. and if they have a recurring dream, wouldn't they at least tell evrryone about it? wow, i am getting way to nitpicky lol.''' Well now add in the following wrinkle: you don't really think about this "recurring dream" (you wouldn't necessarily know it's recurring, since you don't actually recall anything from the previous timelines) until something similar happens: you encounter a yellow flower that reminds you of the one you spoke to or that killed you in the previous timeline. The monsters aren't going around talking about how they had an actual weird dream where such and such happened. They just don't think about it until something actually sparks it in their heads.

'''lets say one monster talks about his "dream." just one! then it tells another monster, who also has the same dream, and then it spreads across the undergrounf until they realize it was real! (jf they see flowey of course) again, just being a nitpick lol. ut it's possible'''

'''i'm starting to make sense of the timeline now... and i agree. they didn't overlap. but i'm pretty sure the humans that fell before frisk were huge asshats because when you kill toriel on a genocide run she's like "You are just like the rest"''' You're mixing up the quotes again. What Toriel says is "You really are no different than them." Which on its own could seem to refer to the other humans, but what immediately precedes it is how she was worried that Frisk wouldn't be able to survive in the Underground with the monsters (hence why she tries to stop Frisk in the first place). So "them" is referring to the monsters, not the other humans.

so toriel is stating that they're both strong?

'''also true, but it's not really relevant. and the most determined being has never been a monster, right? unless if flowey counts as a monster. are monsters aware that people can save at all? if so, why didn't alphys inject determintion into herself or say, asgore? would they turn into the ghost thingies still?''' The only beings that appear to be aware of the save function are those who have actually had control of it. There is only one exception: Sans. Sans has an awareness that something is messing with the timeline. But he himself has no ability to save nor ever had the ability to save. He also does actually remember things across saves, as Flowey and Frisk do. What makes Sans different is that he understands that those vague feelings of deja vu are not coincidental, but have a specific cause. So he is conscious of the time jumps and is on the lookout for anything to suggest who is responsible.

'''does sans remember everything about past SAVEs or just much more than most monsters? and if so, why? does this lead into "is sans a human'"?'''

Alphys could not have injected herself, Asgore, or any other monster with determination, as it would destroy their bodies and turn them into Amalgamates. The monster body, as we are told, cannot handle the concentrations of determination that are in the human body/soul. Even the amounts that must be in Boss Monsters are tiny, as their souls can only persist for a few seconds. The stuff that Alphys was using in her experiments was probably hundreds or thousands of times stronger.

'''well, you can't reset at the end of  pacifist. only true reset. so i think that's what pulls them all back in.''' Indeed, though that raises the question of who has that power, i.e. who is "true resetting."

wait, you're saying that chara might have done it?

well, it's better than one monster being the difference between evacuating and being happy to see you Perhaps, but the problem will always be there no matter what.

true, but the problem seems too much, i'd be happy with a small change.

'''make kills in the ruins not count. similar to undyne. so if you went genocide in the ruins and then changed to pacifist, alphys would stilll think you're very nice.''' I'll have to double check this at some point to confirm, but that's a bit too sophisticated for the game's code. Undyne reacts the same way when you've killed a monster, no matter where that monster is killed. Alphys's reaction would be built upon the same mechanic (likely just a check of the internal kill counter). So programming that in is actually a complex workaround.

'''really? it's that hard to program kills that don't count towards character's reactions? i'm not a programmer, so i wouldn't know, and it's too late at this point. but i have a question about sans. does he know how many people you have killed, even in the ruins? '''

1. is chara happier if you do genocide or pacifist? It depends on a few different factors. If Chara is a blank slate who is essentially taught by Frisk's actions, then I guess Pacifist. If Chara is evil or malevolent and is finally freed and able to exercise their own will by Frisk selling their soul, then Genocide.

2. does flowey still mistake frisk for chara in the pacifist route? Yes. As I think Wildkitten remarked above, Flowey and Asriel are essentially one and the same. When Asriel confuses Frisk for Chara at the end, that is Flowey doing so (recall, of course, that Flowey calls Frisk by Chara's name before ever transforming into Asriel, at the very end of the True Lab).