Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190617222636/@comment-26006155-20190709225742

Well, although no humans have fallen down in a long time, Toriel says she's making daily runs to see if anyone else fell down. She must be finding some monsters that have fallen down, due to the current epidemic. And since there are no hospitals, and she isn't keeping the Fallen at home, what else could Toriel be doing with the fallen monsters she finds, then taking them to Alphys' lab?

Toriel did not come on her own, she was definitely called. She only shows up in the True Pacifist Ending, because Sans called her there. Alphys knows Papyrus called everyone, except Toriel.

Remember the proof in the script that Toriel and Sans have been texting each other for a long time:

Toriel recognized Sans' voice, but didn't know it was Sans by the voice, not connecting him with The Knock Knock Joker until she actually heard him talk. And she hasn't seen Sans' face, either, because she doesn't know who he is on sight. But the moment Toriel learns that this skeleton dude is Sans, she *immediately* realizes the other one is Papyrus, and says Sans has told her so much about him, and she's wanted to meet him for a long time!

Alphys says she upgraded Toriel's phone.. but didn't say *when*. We're assuming it just happened... but there Toriel and Sans are, texting each other rapid fire like a pair of dorks, as Papyrus calls it. It's something they've done for a long time by habit.

And Sans has Toriel's phone number, and calls it when he and Papyrus go to live with her. And the phone Toriel gives to Frisk has Sans' room key on it, and probably used to belong to him.

Sans and Toriel are old friends. Longer than Toriel even knows, I think, since Sans was one of the children who once passed through her Ruins.

I'm glad you agree with me that Frisk's arrival happened in the modern era.

Now keep in mind that Chara arrived after Gaster's death.

And Gaster's arrival couldn't have been that long ago, because the future tech he brought to the monsters is still spreading through the monster world, and hasn't reached areas like Snowdin yet.

Which means Gaster and Chara arrived only a few short years ago.

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When The Empty Gun fires, you definitely get a BANG sound: https://youtu.be/BgSUUbBqI7Q?t=145

The wiki theorizes that Frisk uses his Determination as a type of energy to fire the gun. Which is basically what the PSI-powered 40k Orcs do.

It's interesting to note that regardless of what weapon Frisk is carrying during the Sans fight, the last hit is always done with Chara's Knife.

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In the State of Nature, the monsters and humans once lived together in harmony.

The humans started the war with a sneak attack, and the Waterfall Glyphs writer is mystified, because they should have had nothing to fear.

You're claiming the monsters didn't use to have souls? Undertale makes it pretty clear that they do, and collecting those souls is a major plot point. The monsters are weird, but they're every bit as sentient as the humans are.

You could make the same claim that the monkeys that would later evolve into mankind didn't have souls. But considering how much personality I've seen animals have, I think it's a matter of human arrogance to claim that only we have souls. We have the better brains and better capacity to imagine and innovate, but we were once animals too.

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The idea is that human souls presiste after death. So if a monster could kill a human, they could collect the soul that drops as a powerup.

They don't need a spell to do this. They just have to kill a human. Or find the soul of a human that's already dead. Which might be what Kanashi did.

While your tale of epic eternal battles between humans and monsters and the history of their evolution is interesting.. I think you get away from the observed canon in several parts.

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I still think the idea of destroying the Ruins door is silly. What do you get afterwards? A broken doorway that anyone can walk through.

That's an interesting point, that if you try to stay with Toriel, you get a dream message (seems to be from Asgore?) that you need to wake up again: https://youtu.be/J595cpbW6ps?t=67

Although, you can actually go up to bed, and go to sleep, and wake up when it's dark.. then go downstaris.. and Toriel is still standing right in the same spot you left her.

She's had hours to destroy the door. And has done nothing, but wait for you to arrive.

Something's definitely up.

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I don't think it's that Alphys is struggling to recall how she met Sans.. I think it's a sensitive detail that she doesn't want to tell everyone in the room about.

It might cause problems, if she admitted to helping hide and aid and abet a human in some wild scheme, with King Asgore right there listening in the room.

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Gaster wasn't erased, he was shattered across time and space. Basically killed, in this timeline. It shouldn't effect other's memory of him.. unless something wierd is going on.

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Threre might be a link between Lancer and Sans, I'm not well enough versed in Deltarune to weight in on that yet though.

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It's odd that our phone doesn't work around the Followers, but our phone does work during the Memoryhead fight.

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Undyne specifically states the only reason monsters have modern technology is because they studied human garbage that has washed down from above.

Gaster was a different source of technology entirely, that could do things that even the surface humans couldn't.

That's why tracking the spread of Gaster's otherworldly technology is a good barometer to how long it's been since he arrived in the underground. If a long time had passed, his future tech would have been everywhere in the Underground.