Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31536324-20190117214835/@comment-31536324-20190219204149

"2. Lots of fiction deals with trying to change fate. In some stories, fate is changed. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking of X-Men: Future Past. Clearly you have no right to claim whether fate can be changed or not in this Undertale story."

Actually dt has little to do with "firmess of purpose"in Undertale,  that's related with the resolve to change fate."

"Firmness of purpose has nothing to do with this form of firmness of purpose." - MagomaevaAnima

"If dt was more than the will to overcome death then that wouldn't allow human souls to persist after death."

How so, why, and when was this malarky confirmed?

"Combine this with the fact that the another definition of dt is "the will to keep living","

As well as the blatantly demonstrated firmness of purpose via the Monsters.

"4. Who said DT can't be extracted just because it's a personality trait? Why can't an emotion be hardened like ice and injected into another being?"

Because the only thing Alphys extracted from souls was dt, not any other portion of trait, which indicates that all traits can't be extracted."

If one can be extracted, all can be extracted, to have the others be inextractable with no real sensible reason for such a difference makes no sense.

"Plus, dt is the only """trait"""that allow souls to persist after death, not any single other trait is capable of that."

And how exactly does this mean much of anything?

"dt is also something that make human souls so strong compared to monsters. So theres no reason for dt "trait"to be that special and different from all the other traits UNLESS its not a one, and just a power (plus that's only referred to as a power so far in the game)"

Now THIS is a point that makes sense.

"...Well Frisk's SOUL is red, so their trait is red. But I think that's not what you meant.'

yeah and???"

What did you mean?

"Yes, DT can fluctuate. Yes, all beings (with a SOUL, more on that later) can have DT. But Frisk has LOTS of DT, so that's why their SOUL is the red DT trait. Simple.'

All fallen humans possessed lots of dt as they had save load reset power as confirmed by Toriel"

SAVE goes to the most determined entity in the Underground. Humans have more DT than monsters, so it makes sense that in a land of Monsters a human would gain this ability regardless of their trait.

"even though their soul wasn't red and Frisk LACKED of lot determination on the surface as they had no save file on the surface, so dt is not something that would qualify them at all"

And where is this information coming from?

"Again, which definition of fate are we using?'

This definition:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny"

Here's the definition I use: The events that will necessarily happen to a particular person or thing in the future.

Death, while an inevitability, does not fall into this unless it is an explicit thing that's going to happen at a certain point no matter what.

For example: You are fated to die on April 5th of 2025 at 5PM - it doesn't matter how you die, you WILL die. If you somehow manage to avoid dying then, then you've changed fate.

"Do you not have the ability to extrapolate? What he meant is that DT is LIKE playing a hard level over and over to get the best score.'

That's actually perseverance, not dt"

Perseverance: You're stuck on a hard level, so you keep playing to learn every trick and trap it has, learning how to beat it as you do.

"Flowey cannot feel love, compassion nor hope. And if you try to say "Flowey can feel things like fear and heartless glee" Those are negative emotions. No proof that Flowey, or any other SOULless beings for that matter, can feel neutral emotions like DT.'

Well, he can feel joy as when he tortures you etc.... And still like to likely play etc.... so why wouldnt he feel dt"

This is the one thing I'm going to have to agree with you on, Flowey does feel DT - he was injected with a boat load of it that brought him to life after all - it's positive emotions and empathy he can't feel.

That "Joy" he feels is sadism, a twisted form of joy so to speak.

"Also the point of 'demon that comes when people call its name' is refering to the character naming screen. The character you name at the start of the game is Chara; therefore that makes Chara the demon that comes when people call its name, or name it.'

Yeah but the fact they says "it doenst matter when or where"shows that they appears multiple times, thats a reference to how Frisk come back to life when they hear Asgore calling Charas name."

Except they've been there since the start of the game, where we name them. It makes no sense.

"Nowhere does it say that Flowey had his own personal fear of death. The only reason he felt DT is because he had DT injected into him. You can't prove otherwise."

".If you don't have a SOUL, what happens when you...?", that proove that he has his fear of death pushing him to have dt"

No it doesn't. He was injected with it.

"I have no idea what you mean by this. Frisk never struggles to achieve their goal unless we force them to achieve it? So Frisk could effortlessly go through all of monsterkind, but the minute we force them to do the exact thing they were going to do in the first place, they fail miserably? What????????? Please explain.'

If we stop to play the game, then Frisk would stop aswell."

Except they're outright stated to live their own life after the end of the Pacifist Route, meaning this is false.

"THE VERY FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD IS A DETAILED EXPLANATION OF WHY THE BALL GAME PROVES THAT DT=RED SOUL.

JESUS CHRIST, DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW TO READ!?'

Yet it completely ignores the fact that red soul is confirmed to be a mix of all traits by the ball game, not dt as that has nothing to do with any firmess of purpose."

Read other posy by him, that's actually acknowledged.

"I don't care of how Frisk behaves in the game, they shows many aspects of personality aswell as sometimes firmess of purpose but thats irevelant as they are mostly under our influence and have not really an established personality. They can be good or evil, determined or not, that  all depends of usBold text"

This is nothing but nonsense.