Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31981697-20170722123329/@comment-27136653-20170822180629

2) Yes of course, but I don't think he would have enough energy to change forms like that, and teleport us around. We presumably walked out of the underground, so it would be impossible for him to move our soul back into some sort of a minigame.

And the name of the room is "developer room". Every room has a name. And this one implies it is Toby's room. Therefore, it sits outside Undertale. Otherwise, it would make no sense, since Toby made Undertale. So, if we acknowledge that it sits outside the events of the game, then we can say the game in that room IS Undertale with no problem whatsoever.

And you keep saying that it is a game Toby will make in the future, since the game is apparently set in the future. I thought you said the game is set in the present, and 201X is the past?

3.3) Because you need to save that data first. Frisk does not have their own save file until they save. And neither does Chara. Their essence just carries the data for the save file, not the save itself.

3.5) Meaning, it isn't natural. And no, Chara's LV is 20. And lastly, I don't believe humans won the war because of the HUD. There's no proof of this thing existing for anyone else besides Frisk.

3.6) If a character at some point in their lives was not roleplayed, then they, as you said, are independant. They are more than us. So, we are controlling them. Roleplay would imply the character is nothing more than we are. And not being our turn can just mean not giving us a chance to attack.

3.7) How about we say that Frisk asks them? It is their choice to press the button, the monsters do something, and Chara tells Frisk the stats. And messages like "check all you want" can be interpreted as being for Frisk directly.

4.1) As I said, they can't duplicate everything.

4.2) Asriel wanted to reset actually. But he had to kill us first to do so.

4.6) The attack view is rather skewed. Maybe by moving the shield to the left, Frisk moves it to anywhere that contains the "left" direction. Including upwards. But for us, we see only 4 directions. Again, what we see isn't necessarily what is really happening. And so you do agree that the spear is a part of the green mode, and she had to give you both in order to make it easier for you? I think that's true. While red, the attacks are much more complex. I think it DID make the fight easier. At the cost of not being able to run away (probably beacause of the shield, that's perhaps stuck to your soul, weighing it down).

4.10) Who said there WAS some empire? And the way the sepia sequence is portrayed really makes me think that 201X is a human year. It shows the events on the surface, then "many years later...", and then a year.

Remember, I'm basing my assumption on the fact that no more data in the game was provided besides this year and the 100 years Sans mentioned. I know it creates some inconsistencies, but we can't just insert more info just to make it more plausible. Besides, the chance of 8 humans all falling down within the last century is small, but not impossible. Maybe the first one triggered something that would lead to the rest falling down, or maybe it was impossible to fall down before 201X.

4.11) I'm not gonna comment on your explanation of hardmode. It's just a pure guess.

And yes, the save ability, EXP, LV is all canon. But nothing says the battle interface is too. We can see it, but who knows if Frisk can. I mean, you said that no one besides Frisk can, and that since we're Frisk, that means only US can see it. Therefore, it is exclusive to the player. Unless you say Frisk isn't the player, in which case, we don't know if Frisk can see it. And Sans does refer to it, yes, but again, no indication that this is how the HUD really looks like if he could really see it.

But then again, Sans is the only one with such strange abilities. Maybe, we should just dismiss him. Since it causes so many inconsistencies. Undertale is not self-aware. It may look like it, but it doesn't outright state so. Games like Oneshot on the other hand are. So if Undertale isn't 100% meta, then we should really be taking everything with a grain of salt.

If Undertale is what you're really saying it is, then it is incredibly constrained. And I don't like that. That's not what Toby wanted to create. An incredibly constrained world. No, it's about the story. The HUD is for player's pleasure only. Maybe even, Sans's battle didn't really happen the way we saw it happen. Maybe there are no "turns" after all.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">4.13) You're speaking as if monsters are weaker than human newborns. The humans had determination, yes, but that doesn't mean they would defeat Asgore. He could still dodge, he could still deal strong blows to them to kill them quickly, we don't know how strong he really is. Just the fact that he lost to like a what, a 9 year old(?) human child is beyond weird (there's multiple indicators that Frisk is very young, probably younger than Chara).

<p style="font-weight:normal;">And Toriel left right after Asgore declared the war, not after he killed a child already. And even if he didn't have the ability to destroy the mercy button back then, that doesn't mean he wouldn't win. How did you figure that out?

<p style="font-weight:normal;">And Asgore had to do it. He didn't want to declare the war, but he had to, in order to give hope to the monsters. And after that, he still could try to convince everyone not to engage with the humans, he still could try to be merciful. Unfortunately, he didn't have the power to fight Frisk. That was the first time it has happened. Frisk was the first human Asgore couldn't defeat (even with the other humans having the reset ability), since his unwillingless to fight finally caught up to him.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">5) Both of those statements are tied together. Therefore, Frisk also denied both of them. That's how english language works. It is full of such implications. Besides, not calling them ugly, but heckling them in such way is a nonsense. Why deny the softer variant and confirm the harsher one? I believe Toby definitely did not make that particular bit so complex.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">And Chara did not cry. It was a laugh. So you may say it was an anxious laugh. But I don't see anything stressful about that. It's sad, not stressful. Toriel laughing over her own death, Chara laughing over poisoning Asgore, those are the moments fit for such laugh. But not this. Snowdrake's mom does not inflict any pain on us, so why should we be anxiously laughing? As I said, the most plausible explanation is that Chara meant a genuine laugh, but sarcastically.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">6) No, Chara was awakened by Frisk's soul, AND their determination. Just the DT wouldn't be enough. So of course the other humans couldn't wake Chara up. And when fighting Asriel, Frisk no longer has the control over the timeline. But for some reason, Asriel wants to reset, and needs us to be dead. Maybe that's how resets work? That all other participants must die first. Though, that didn't happen. For some reason, our soul didn't shatter. If it shattered, Asriel would reset, since we were no longer in control of this power. So the only other option is that our soul didn't shatter. Normally, that would mean we would die for good, but somehow, that wasn't the case. So maybe it was the setting. Asriel pulled all souls out of their bodies into the fight, so presumably ours too. If we were already disconnected like that, then we couldn't really die. Though, that doesn't explain how did we regain the health points then. Maybe there's some other explanation that we're missing.