Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-32182236-20180712220503

"They represent combat styles. Patience, bravery, kindness and justice are obvious. The surefire accuracy thing applies more to the ball game itself than to the mode, but the mode is still about shooting. With green, you are being kind to your soul, remember that. The definition of blue agrees with the mode, but the name is a bit abstract. But perhaps it's a reference to Toriel, how she's described with that word by Sans. And purple's description agrees with Muffet's battle, as well as with what the purple human's hobby was. And the word itself, perseverance, maybe refers to the fact that you must go through the entire fight, you can't cut it short, for Muffet's stubbornness. And red may as well be the sum of all of them, while nothing new on its own."

I'm with Malice on this one. They can't be fighting styles, one errant thing brings the whole thing down. Case in point: kindness to yourself is selfishness, a synonym for jealousy the opposite of kindness.

"I'm actually doing the latter too."

Well, we can ONLY do the latter. We can't go tampering with the in-game evidence. We need to keep the evidence as it is when we use it. Just like I can't just say that E=mc^3. (Well, I can, just like anyone can say the Earth is flat, but.. hopefully you get the point.)

"Folklore? Maybe it was merely an artistic rendition. If you recall, Toby wanted to originally put the Omega Flowey silhouette there, but withdrawed, because it made no sense."

Citation here? You're making a claim about Toby without any proof.

"Well, the DT extractor also makes no sense, it's not like it imbued itself into the DT that would later on be injected into Flowey or something."

Actually, your example is almost correct! It was used to extract DT, and that DT would later be used for Flowey and the Amalgamates.

"I've done it. Using the blueprints, I've extracted it from the human SOULs. I believe this is what gives their SOULs the strength to persist after death. The will to keep living... The resolve to change fate. Let's call this power... 'Determination.'"-Entry 5

So yeah, it does make sense. Alphys explicitly mentioned blueprints-She used a machine-Not just basic syringes-That was just to get it out of the machine.

"Alright. In a way, it does make sense. The humans feared this. It didn't say it never happened. The illustration is there. Is there anything else that would contradict this? For example, the plaques are very inconsistent in their narrative (as if multiple people wrote them). The motive is also missing. Why would a monster absorb a human soul to begin with?"

Power. There can be megalomaniac monsters too, you know. To say only humans can be megalomaniacs is racist. (And before you bring up that book that says monster SOULs are literally made of love, hope, and compassion, note that Asgore doesn't have hope for the duration of his time as king after declaring war. That book DOES have evidence to contradict it. It's likely monster propaganda. Though, if Asgore himself believed it, perhaps that's why he wanted to give everyone hope. Fearing that the monsters would lose their SOULs, due to a key component being missing.)

"The rest of the game kinda implies the humans are at fault."

All it says was the humans attacked. ...I don't see how that makes them the only ones at fault. Sure, sure, their methods of doing so may not have been the best, but the had a REASON to fear the monsters.

"So maybe, no one else knew that this has happened, hence why it looked like the humans attacked for no reason and without a warning."

No other monsters seeing it? Seems legit at first. Perhaps eventually, the story spread, but given how the monsters believe their SOULs are made of love, hope, and compassion, they'd likely not believe these stories.

"Still, I don't think they covered it up. Else they would say it didn't actually happen."

Sometimes, subtly implying it didn't happen does better of a job. Flat-out saying it didn't happen might get people to think of the contradiction sooner. Also, I've softened my stance on the matter. It's less of them trying to cover it up, and more just them not wanting to bring up the bad stuff. Kind of like how they tried to discredit Fidel Castro:The government doesn't deny that it happened, but you won't see them teaching this in history class.

"So yes, I don't think there were any witnesses of this that could then lie about this. So they had no reason to state so. But then again, they did say what the humans feared. Maybe they coincidentally concluded it correctly? I mean, why would they know but NOT lie that it hasn't actually happened?

What do you think?"

Under the current main beliefs about monsters, the idea that a monster would do such a thing would probably be considered preposterous. After all, they're supposedly made of love, hope, and compassion, and taking a human SOUL is pretty much the opposite of love and compassion.

"That is a bit specific. And I would imagine such would be more universal. Assuming an equal distribution, why should only a 7th of the population be clever enough to take mental notes of something?"

Maniac got this one right too. Of COURSE more people know how to take mental notes. But.. Only about 1/7th of the population would have this as, say, part of their dominant personality. Taking mental notes to help you succeed, even as you feel trapped? Seems like.. a scientific-minded person. As an analogy, most people know science is a good thing, and have at least some level of rational thinking, but how many are actually PASSIONATE about science? How many are scientific-minded?

"Because they guessed?"

...Yeah, that's an unreasonable guess to make. There would be nothing to link the two together.

"No meta arguments. I reject the meta."

Toby arguments count as meta-arguments.

"A call towards our world. But it works both ways."

Um.. what do you mean, both ways? ..Look, I'm going off the implied explanations:There are many (metaphorical) Floweys in the Surface. And not everything can be resolved just by being nice. And no, flirting your way out doesn't always work either, despite what some fancomics might say.

"They look like the laws of a simulation to me."

Ours does too. All these laws are based strictly on mathematics.

"Could I please have a real physics textbook?"-Neo

"There is no such thing, Neo. The universe doesn't run on math!"-Morpheus

So.. Our laws can ALSO imply that we're in a simulation.

"And I am not rejecting their existence. Just morphing them so that they wouldn't be so stupidly meta. You don't believe that the battles in the Pokemon world are happening in turns, do you?"

No. And I don't recall any of the characters specifically speaking of turns in that series.

"No, it's more like the TV show. Same thing here, the idea of turns being canon just isn't clicking for me. If everything works the way we see it, then we may as well admit that we're observing a universe that is simulated. Because what's the difference, really?"

Well, maybe in the same way this world might be simulated..

"No one is questioning these strange laws, most of which take effect only during a battle against a human... it's as if everyone was also a part of the simulation, designed not to ask any questions, with the exception of Sans, who is at least allowed to address it. Or DO you have an explanation for this?"

Gravity looks like a strange law as well. And most of us never get to see how stars create energy, which also looks like some kind of magic, to the point where it was attributed to gods in the old times. (Ra, god of the sun) But, scientists do, and we learn about them. Besides, the monsters seem to know that you're a human. Hmm, how would they know if they've never seen one before? ...Because someone told them? ..Correct! Now, the Royal Guard was created by Asgore, to..? Did you guess "to fight humans"? You would be correct! So, what's the logical thing to do to get these monsters prepared? Hmm.. what about actually teaching them about how turn-based battles work? That's a good thing to do, right?

Toriel and Asgore both lived the war of humans and monsters-They have no need to question the mechanics. And once again, it's a natural law that would be spread. Just like how we're all told what to do if the building we're in is on fire, despite probably never experiencing this before. Humans were common on the surface, and still fall into the Underground, so why WOULDN'T they be educating the monsters on what to expect when facing a human? Sure, the odds of a human falling soon are quite low (but given the lifespans of monsters, they'll probably certainly be alive to see at least one human), but the odds of your plane crashing are also low, and you're briefed on plane safety! The odds of an emergency happening at the movies are low, but you're briefed on what to do if it does! Why should a human encounter be any different?

"Whatever makes you happy."

...Not using the same methods!! If you failed, you did SOMETHING wrong! Try a DIFFERENT angle, but still, with canon included. Disregard some of the assumptions you've began with! Once again, let's think in terms of Sudoku. If you failed the puzzle, and are stuck, it's because you filled in a wrong clue somewhere! If you put in all of the same clues, then yes, you're going through the definition of insanity-Same thing, expecting a different outcome? But.. tweak that thing. Change it up a little. Scientists have failed to find out quantum gravity. But they shouldn't give up-They should instead try again, but of course, not just laying out the exact same hypothesis that'll be proven wrong even faster because it's exactly the same thing as before.

"Because we want to expand upon the story, we want to go beyond what the code itself is giving us. Isn't that right?"

That's not a theory, though. Why are we even calling it that?

"Then the simpler explanation is, that it doesn't exist."

No, the simpler explanation is to take the hints the game gave us, use those quotes and the image of the surface, and take them to their natural conclusion.

"He had in mind a cool game."

Yes, that too.

"Well he could have at least hinted at it. But no, all we got, was one city on the surface."

That IS hinting at it.

"He didn't even bother to add the humans, that were implied to be there, into the final animation."

...Perhaps they're not there anymore? #SecondWar #HistoryDoomedToRepeatItself

This need not be laziness. It could be hinting at a second war. After all, history often repeats itself. Papyrus wouldn't neccessarily make a good ambassador or mascot of the monsters with his dangerous puzzles.

Though, we really only get to see parts of a highway, where humans wouldn't be walking through, Toriel entering the school, when prinicpals and teachers enter in before the students, one small area of a beach, where human population isn't dense, and a monster performance, in a time where humans aren't accepting of monsters. So.. Maybe the idea of humans not being on-screen isn't as far-fetvhed as we thought.

"The UT world is underground-centric to him. I understood this when I first saw the PS4 animation. It was the background of this wikia with starry crystals above. And an occasional annoying dog silhouette for a good measure.

"GF does speak of the outside world."

As does Undertale.

"Shows it to us on numerous occassions even. Sends people from it to Gravity Falls and vice versa."

Like in the time-travel episode? That was just a different time! (Also, we do see the Surface in the ending.)

"Undertale just... ends."

GF does that after Bill is turned into stone.

"Well I don't think he's just sitting on his ass 24/7 like we do either."

Maybe sleeping on that rug?

"EVERYONE tried to approach it differently. We tried everything already. There is reason why blogs like saveloadreset stopped theorizing. They understood that there's nothing left for them anymore."

I don't recall them stopping completely. Though their theories did start becoming less and less common.

"I could say the same for the converse."

That they did say so? ...They didn't. And all the references to it being a world of its own, the Surface, and the mechanics being presented as their own kinds of magic, rather than purely coding mechanics says some things about the way things are supposed to operate-Game mechanics exist, but not as game mechanics.

"We disagree even on those answers."

Well, the first step is actually going by the style of using canon rather than fanon. (By canon, I don't mean copy my theories, I mean look at the game evidence alone, look at its mechanics and story from the characters, ect, and see how it fits together.)

"Implying there is a concept of morality woven into the game itself."

Once again, FIGHTing is the only option with an interactive component. The lighter color could be inidcative of this "mini-game."

"The game has one true ending, as implied by the game numerous times."

...The Genocide Ending? It's the only irreversable one.

"So, if it has a world of its own, where every outcome has an equal weight, then what's the explanation for there being only one true ending? The one in charge picking it. Frisk."

...No, all of the endings are canon in their own way. Remember, player choice is canon. The canon ending is whatever ending you get.

"We aren't playing as Chara you idiot. That's proven."

Yeah, I was arguing that we're not. Chara's not the player.

"But they do represent the player stereotype."

Flowey does a better job, though. Chara just sees power. Flowey experiments around, looking at every possibility, trying to help at first, but he can't wait to see what lies ahead. Sans takes note of this behavior in the Genocide Run as well. Now, since Undertale was meant to be played blind, let's just say that all evidence of the Genocide Run was removed. It still exists, but nobody knows about it. Now, about how many players do you think would do the route? (By the way, that also means no evidence of that route can be created either-If you finish it, only you will know.)

"Chara can only leave the world by first destorying it, though."

"It would make more sense per this stereotype if that wasn't a condition."

So, what's the natural conclusion of this? Hmm.. what about that Chara ISN'T the player stereotype?

"That they do it solely because they want to. I mean, we never have to smash a game we finish to move on, do we?"

You're right-We don't. I used that as a counterpoint to Chara being the player archetype.

"Because there isn't one. They're obeying the stereotype. Like a machine, you could say. They aren't programmed to know that there's nothing else beyond this world."

They would have found out when they tried and failed to move onto the next.

"Well they don't do anything fancy in that route. Which is what I meant."

...Walking past Papyrus' puzzles? Or is that Chara?


 * Undertale.

No, I meant Harry Potter. I can't imagine how the spells work based off of a verbal command, and how something as simple as a wand motion changes drastically what happens, in a seemingly chaotic way. But, the fact is, that IS how they canonically work. So, the same argument applies to Undertale's buttons.

"And I figured it out. Magic is a new state of matter, the essence is the soul's program (telling it what to do and stuff), and the commands get uploaded into the essence directly from the brain, using magical strains that connect the brain and the essence. Magic can talk with itself, influence itself, which is how the essence manipulates the spells."

This is likely how monster magic works, which is why they are so fluent at it.

"Imagine the essence like a second brain. How does it tell the magic what and how to conjure something? The same way that your brain tells your arm how to move."

Exactly. Therefore, it's easy to represent yourself through it. That is, if you're a monster.

"This is still easier to understand than something SOMEHOW breaking simultaneity. Because the only idea I'm getting for that, is some master program halting pockets in the universe in such a way that its inhabitants can't move, but can still bounce around their bodies (like Sans does it) and don't find it weird."

Oh, they can move alright. Sans proves this. But usually, that's useless, because the attack isn't aimed at one specific point, but wherever the opponent is at the time. That's kind of how you can choose who to attack..?

"It's still incredibly strange even if it applied for the underground only. Because such assumes the existence of a near-perfect machine that mediates all of this. A machine that basically turns the realistic world into a game interface."

In the human case, it's incredibly simple-During a monster attack, our SOUL is stuck in the box, where it can't reach any buttons. We know that's the only thing stopping us because of the Sans fight. In the case of a monster attack, though, that's much more complex. Perhaps there is some sort of barrier preventing monster attacks, that is broken by our attack? And as long as monsters are still attacking, it can't form, because they block the way? ...We don't know how it works on that side. But on the human side, it's very clear. And you keep telling me that it's not a game. Please, such explanation practically BEGS us to default to the simpler option, that it's always been a game/simulation.

"Then I am allowed to believe in the simplest option, that it's all just a simulation."

Once you take that to the next level and then say there is no surface, and that the player is a real, canon entity separate from Frisk, it's no longer the simplest option. It may be a simualtion, but only in the same way that our world might be a simulation.

"Then the idea of slashes being invisible isn't canon."

You're right, it's not necessarily canon. I even admitted that in my previous post. The only reason why I still use that is because it's the simplest explanation for why only Sans can dodge our attacks, when just about anyone should know what dodging is.

"Coincidence, my dude. It could have been 40% 40%, or 75% 34%, idc. My point was, you haven't fulfilled either approach."

I need not fulfill the meta approach that expands beyond what the game hints at, or flat-out contradicts the game. As for the others, I hadn't contradicted the game's canon.

"Or MAYBE, your approach is absolutely correct, but it's Undertale's fault. That shit is indescribable."

Do you mean Undertale's canon being indescribable? As in, the direct canon without fanon expansions/modifications?

"But you aren't fully in two places at once, both of them are half-broken for you."

I would agree about the outer circle, which I don't plan on using.

I'm doing the same, can't you see? I'm totally ignoring the meta and using the canon and logic instead.

"Bullshit."

Um... saving Asriel? (A Dreemurr Reborn) Gaster coming back? (Ask Frisk and Company) Saving and loading on the Surface? (Frisk:God of the World) Glitchtale's story? Absolutely every AU ever? Fanfictions break canon all the time. But they're not meant to follow canon, unlike theories.

"No, there's the code for that."

That only tells us the game flags. It won't tell you how determination works, for example.

"If you want to find a deeper meaning behind everything, you must abandon the meta and start doing what the AU creators are doing."

Like Mettaton changing the name, and Floweytale. Oh, and wait, the game being a game! Yeah, that's that first step I was talking about. Turning the game into a world. By making it a world, we automatically get rid of meta aspects. Mettaton changing the name of the game isn't a physical event that happens, so it is lost in the conversion process.

"And have you ever heard of the concept of a faithful AU? One that actually obeys the story and doesn't change anything? Only explains something in a different way, at most?"

...How is that an AU again?

"That's my AU. Everything is the same in it, I just chose to opt out of the HUD being so meta. I'm not censoring Sans's speech about turns, I just chose to interpret it as taking abstract turns of a combat (e.g. one person attacking, the other defending, and afterwards the other way around), not the actual in-game turns."

Which, if in-game turns exist, have no reason to exist. We should be able to attack twice, and monsters should as well. Real-time combat. But yet, that's not how the battles work.

"No, no no no no. You prove yourself first. I am not obligated to prove anything, you are obligated to prove your claim that there's something hidden first."

The very explanations I've given to resolve all the contradictions? Also, you didn't just say my claim was invalid, you specifically said Toby's focus was not on the story, which is a claim on its own. Without a tweet from the developer himself, you have no basis for that claim.

"When you make a claim, you prove it, not ask others to provide proof of their disagreements with you on it."

Saying that Toby not focusing on story proves me wrong is a claim of itself. And you didn't prove your claim.

"If I say that the Riemann hypothesis is false and then tell everyone to prove me wrong, does that make me a credible person, or a moron? You yourself are responsible for your own claims, no one else is."

Hm, you did the exact same thing with my hypothesis! What do you know? Look. Neither of us have proof. So what we should do in this scenario is to not use Toby as an argument AT ALL, and go back to looking at canon through in-game evidence only.

"That's right... implied mechanics. That's what everyone is theorizing about most of the time."

No wonder we haven't gotten anywhere in three years! We need another Einstien! Someone willing to trash our basic assumptions, so that a revolutionary theory will be made! We've been assuming some basic things this whole time, but what if those were wrong? I hope our revolutionizer comes soon...

"But the factual mechanics still imply a simulation."

Or an alternate universe. This latter option is something we already know to be true anyway.

"Hmm, a near-divine construct... something like the Matrix perhaps? It is masking the reality, changing it. It's very similar to a simulation. We might as well say that it is a simulation."

Hmm, things are falling down. Something like a force perhaps? It is changing the object's relative velocity. It's very similar to a force. We might as well say that it is a force.

...Oh wait. What? You mean gravity ISN'T a force? It's actually a distortion in the spacetime continuum? So there was a flaw somewhere in our reasoning? Hmm, I wonder where?

"No one is skilled in fight (or expects us to fight, really), except for the royal guards and the king."

Doesn't mean you can't dodge a single time ever.

"Toriel wanted us to prove our strength, the canine unit mainly relies on other senses than sight, Papyrus is... Papyrus, Undyne wanted to show us her strength"

So far, sensible explanations.. Well, minus the part I previously responded to..

"the royal guards... I guess they either aren't really qualified, or can't move as much as we can"

If they weren't qualified, Undyne wouldn't have hired them. It'd be like Papyrus. And why wouldn't they be able to move fast enough to dodge?

"and Asgore refuses to dodge."

Which would give him away as not trying. So.. Why is he still using strong and hard-to dodge fire attacks? He'd clearly be giving himself away by not doing something so basic any fighter should know how to do.

"Sans is the only one that takes this absolutely seriously and is agile enough to actually dodge - every single time in fact. Does this work?"

Read above, and find out.

"What if there's no button? I belive in the save/reset buttons, but not these."

Contradicts the mechanic of us being able to move the box, and this being our way of attacking, along with his speech about how if it's always his turn, we can't attack.

"Yes, but its existence doesn't imply the existence of a simulation as much as the HUD masking the true reality and its mechanics does.

"Even if some of them never met a human before? It's implied that these mechanics take place only when they encounter us."

As I say above, they know how it works for the same reason why we know what you do in case of a fire.

"I'm hearing that for the first time."

Seriously, look at her attacks. They're the longest attacks of all the monsters. Except for Sans and his final (not special) attack.

"You still have those other hypothetical monster questions I gave."

Once again, as Malice said, this should be common knolwedge.

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-fcrn1Edik"

So.. a meme?

"Sure, you can construct any story whatsoever with so few clues. That's why so many AUs exist after all."

Not ANY story. And some clues can be filled in, even with less than 16 clues. It's just that you can't solve the WHOLE puzzle.

"But there is no obvious single truth. You won't find it."

Not for everything. But there is for some things.

"If something is masking the true reality, that's a leftover from the meta - where Toby had no other way but to use the classical Pokemon / Touhou Project battle mechanics to show off the battles. So okay, he said it's canon. Good, I don't mind, but I mind how it looks like."

It needs to fit in with what Sans is doing. The WHOLE thing. Oh, and Asgore too.

"The interface is and always has been a bridge between a "reality" of any sort and a game screen. It's existence therefore implies the presence of a simulation."

The same can be said about saving and loading.

"If we want to keep the things it brings canon, we must take a different approach, if we don't want this to become a game."

Which is where I got the idea of it being a magical construct from. All of this doesn't imply a simulation, it implies design. That Undertale's world didn't start with some Big Bang and the laws being randomly determined, but was, in fact, created by an intellegent being.

"We can't just say that it's not a game, because that makes no sense. It only makes sense if it were a simulation."

No, it only makes sense if there was a creator of that world that had certain intentions. It implies thiesm, not necessarily a simulation. (Simulations DO imply theism in a way, the programmer is your "deity." But that doesn't make the reverse true.)

"There is no special attack. That was just intimidation."

He specifically explains what his attack is. It's that if he never attacks, you can't either. "i know i can't beat you. one of your turns... you're just gonna kill me. so, uh. i've decided... it's not gonna BE your turn. ever. i'm just gonna keep having MY turn until you give up. even if it means we have to stand here until the end of time. capiche?"-Sans

Explain that WHOLE quote.

"I cannot imagine it happening on such a large scale, and with such precise shapes, shaped like letters and whatnot."

There's no reason why it shouldn't be possible for it to happen on a large scale. Size is relative. And the precise shapes only imply design, not simulation. Why does the idea of intelligent design seem to be so baffling? (In Undertale's world)

"Conscious magic maybe. I mean, drawing with magic is something I would accept. But the letters we see rather look like a computer font, not something hand-drawn."

Or some magical construct designed to be the same every time. It's easier to make it look like a computer font than handwriting.

"Works for me. Too much DT destroys magic after all."

...Which would make Asriel Dreemurr LESS powerful because of all the monster SOULs he absorbed. ...Yeah. That's not the case here.

"Because it may have been a plot mechanic, to shock us? I think in-game evidence stands above info that came seemingly out of nowhere. At least, for in-game theories."

The game is what is telling us these things. And the plot mechanic to shock us was showing Chara fall rather than Frisk. Which wasn't actually tricking us at all-An observant viewer would be able to point out that the two characters were different. One stripe vs two stripes. Though it looks like an artistic error at first... Hmm...

"That doesn't make her the prophet of the holy truth or anything."

Of course not. She didn't think the Amalagamtes could form.

"Besides, she incorrectly assumed injecting the DT into the souls would result in the body dying and them persisting."

That's exactly what happened. Before they melted into what we know as the Amalgamates.

"There's your proof that even scientists can be wrong. In this universe, that is."

One was a prediction that couldn't be foreseen. She hasn't observed how magic requires physical matter. But, she had determination right in front of her, and she knew what SOUL power was, being the same thing the Barrier was locked by. It would be easy to conclude that they were the same. Both of us could probably do it if we had the full information that she did, and the experimental tools.

"She did exactly what she said in the entries. She followed logic and nothing else. She did not bother to do any more research on monster physiology."

Monster physicology has nothing to do with it. She knows what SOUL power is, and she discovered determination. Just put two and two together, Alphys.

"Same thing. The others say it too:"

Toriel's a special case, though. She's the only one that mentions it being for the first time. An old friend, but for the first time. Because this was her first meeting, but we had Chara. In their case, they didn't mention it being the first time-Because it wasn't. That was a previous timeline that they lived, then forgot.

"we'll just end up right back here, without any memory of it, right?"-Sans

"I've already explained that."

Yeah, we should just move that part to where you DO talk about that.

The strength of monsters comes from their will to fight. He's fully lost that on the 7th encounter. No reason why there, but it certainly played in our favor.

"She didn't. So she couldn't have fought them. We are her first."

Which contradicts her line about "As it is customary for those who make it this far, I will tell you the tragic tale of our people."

..Unless maybe the implication DOESN'T hold, and that implied things AREN'T necessarily facts, something I've tried to say before! So, now you're trapped in a dillema. If you point out how that's only an implication, you'll be proving, and have to accept, that implications are not factual. And if you don't, then you're forced to say that since she fought them and didn't have the feeling, they couldn't have had the ability. So, what will you do?

"Then explain the way it behaves, like how it looks like it's waving."

Creating light wouldn't explain that either. It would appear to glow, not make waves. The waves are likely a visual effect of the spell, to make the Barrier identifiable. That or it's a direct result of the part of the spell that sustains the Barrier, preventing it from decaying.

"Well, it's a straight walk into and from that room. It would still shine through."

..There's still an assumption you're making. There could be twists and/or turns between the two rooms. And due to the lack of sunlight coming out from the door, this has to be the case.

"At least not all jews died in the holocaust."

Not a good comparison, unless originally everyone died, and I went back in time and managed to save some people. And I can confirm that this didn't happen.

"But the canon makes no sense. Not with the HUD being canon and whatnot."

If you try to merge our world with the world of Undertale, like I did with that wave frequency SOUL magic thing, then yes, it makes no sense. But, remember, this isn't our universe. Undertale has its own laws, its own mechanics, that are completely different than ours!

"That's micro-cosmos. Atoms and whatnot. I was speaking of macro-cosmos."

Oh, they can still be measured in these indivisible particles. It's just the numbers will be huge. (And we're not even CLOSE to being able to do that, but it is theoretically doable-The universe is made of an exact amount of mass.. minus all the quantum shenanigans.

"Because repeating words instead of using synonyms does not make for a very nice effect. I've read a few fanfictions that were like that. It's like the person is directly explaining the plot to you, rather than some narrator speaking."

Well, they basically repeated words for the other traits! Yellow's singled out here.

"But it doesn't allow you to see one's thoughts. That's why yellow exists. To reveal them."

Why would you need to see their thoughts? You SAW the crime happen, you KNOW this person committed the crime. That's enough-They're guilty. ...Unless they plead insanity, but a psychologist should be able to determine that, when also presented with the contextual situation that happened, which we once again saw happen, and can directly show them as well!

"Because not always do you know where to look in the real world, and sometimes, it's not even something that you CAN look for."

Let's see, we have the body. Now, turn back time, seeing what happened to it backwards-By going backwards through all the times it was moved, you'll eventually find the actual death. In the case of someone going missing, start with when they were last seen, and go FORWARD from there.

PS:We'll finally be able to prove once and for all how the Moon Landing went if we could do this!

.*2 months later in alternate timeline*

Some Conspiracy Theorist:What?! You're one of the conspirators!! Tampering with this device, showing us a fake past..

...Okay. I take that back. We can't.

"How? Don't tell me every single one of them met a human before."

The same way we know things without experiencing them. How do we know dinasours existed? We never saw any!

"That's not what I care about. All I want to know, is why none of them comment about the invisible attack."

Because they ALREADY KNEW about that.

"I thought you meant the power. The stuff we were discussing always concerned power, not the counting of objects. That's a thing in our universe too, you know."

Someone that BARELY has more power than one human wiping out thirty? Through sheer power? Quite suspicious.. Until you realize that by being a monster with a human SOUL, you have the best of BOTH races. You're as fluent in magic as a monster, and yet as powerful as a human, which is a deadly combination in terms of power. If this were game design, that would be a game-breaker.

--

Pretty sure what we mean by Undertale not being real is that it's a fictional world. It's not real, but neither is literally any other fictional story. Harry Potter's not real. But it's no simulation.

--

"Oh no! Undertale's world is determined by math and conditions! It's a simulation! ..What? You mean our world is ALSO based on math and conditions? And they can be interpreted as flags and conditions?"