Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-27136653-20180830040103

"if you're MADE of them, you really CAN'T exist without them"

I'm assuming that if Toby wanted a certain information to get debunked, he would have pointed it out, like with Alphys. So since he didn't point anything out here, didn't even drop any hint whatsoever, both information must be true. So we have to find a way to make both of them work simultaneously. As in, they are correct, we are just misunderstanding them.

"Reaching the surface was the false hope:Not killing a few humans."

He was killing them nonetheless.

"Which is why he tries to lose on fight seven, and part of why he kills himself when spared. If he didn't kill himself, someone else would be elected anyway.."

Not while he keeps the charade up.

"it fluctuates, remember?"

It doesn't, though.

"There's no reason why Frisk should retain the power for THIS LONG."

Maybe they are the most determined human after all. Who knows? Maybe eating monster food had something to do with it? You know, DT is a magical substance after all.

"Okay, where did you get that idea from? When has this EVER been mentioned?"

Concluded.

"Likely because by doing this, we fused with Chara, in the same way that Asriel fused with Chara."

That's different. One was a monster human soul fusion. Here, we have two essences sharing the same human soul. We don't even know if they can fuse. And if yes, I assume that would fuse their minds together too. Imagine that. A backwards split personality disorder.

"The rest of the monsters? ..Probably not."

Those same teens ruthlessly decorated Gyftrot, by the look of things.

"It's pretty clear that they can. If Toriel can, Papyrus can, Mettaton can.. Toriel's a Boss Monster, but Papyrus and Mettaton aren't."

And not everyone can cast orange or green magic, not everyone can work with soul modes, etc. Every monster is different. We don't know if they all can. But yes, I don't really think HP reading falls into this category. I still find it weird that the monsters just ignore it. Maybe they just don't know what they're witnessing, since their attacks never harmed anyone before.

"A war with literally only one battle?"

Armies fought. So it's a war. Short wars are a thing too. Though the monsters don't tend to call it a war, really. More like a genocide.

"Instead of, you know, some hidden third race that was never mentioned. Which I'm surprised you both believe in that"

I don't. I believe that the game has no consistent explanation. My third race belief is my headcanon for fully explaining the rules of the world to myself.

"He didn't. He's deconstructing the nature of RPGs in general."

So you do agree that his message still is, that the humans were at fault, and that monsters are not monstrous, but rather innocent and misunderstood, and that the pacifist route is the only true route? None of that nonsense you were spewing out yesterday?

"Perhaps he didn't see it as as bad of a path as we did? That he DOESN'T consider it a massive genocide against a completely innocent race?"

Which is obviously a nonsense, and considering we both know he's not insane, you're wrong.

"But we just showed the book can't be used as evidence anymore. So you can't use that anymore. They ARE attacking you. That's exactly what this section was about."

Joke's on you, I'm still using it.

"Hence, the "rule" was broken"

Because it was never a rule. At least not the way you're citing it.

"As I said, the monsters could have taken advantage of this quirk, and made a gap around 1cm wide."

Yes, exactly!

This is what happens when you let the meta go too far. This is why I refuse to believe that turns are real. Because it's a slippery slope from there that ends in exactly this kind of madness.

"Sans explicitly mentions some of these things, though. Therefore, the ones he mentioned are in fact real."

Then so is all the meta. E.g. the intro is an actual intro to the world and not just someone's memory, ergo it takes precedence when comparing facts.

"Though, then we have to explain why Chara has to narrate everything."

We also have to explain how dialogue texts work. Although, meta needs no explanation... it just is, just like the turns. MysteriousMalice was very clear on that, that turns somehow exist without a logical explanation.

"This single line disproves that fights turn the world into a black void with black and white monsters."

So if the graphics aren't real, why should the buttons be real and not just inside Frisk's head for example?

"So, how is this "suppression" a thing, and what makes it different than someone just plain not having it?"

They can regain it quickly, and it is more difficult for them to lose it.

"No, I haven't, I just said doing that is impossible."

You've been developing this conspiracy ever since you posted that bs post about monsters starting the war or whatever. What's next? That genocide is justified?