Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31536324-20190117214835/@comment-33883848-20190201152312

"Yes it does, stop being like Tsskyx and disregarding proof just because it doesn't fit your view."

So i disregard proof because you say i do?? Fine:Alphys quite clearly says that she CALLED this substance dt, if she was talking about firness of purpose in general then she wouldn't name it at all as it already has a name. She called it dt BECAUSE THE WILL TO KEEP LIVING IS SIMILAR TO TUE WILL TO ACHIEVE A GOAL, in the context of this substance:the strong will to persist

"Because they're weren't as determined as they were in the Asriel fight at that point"

I know. But if dt was really their trait wouldnt they be as much determined as during Asriels fight during omega floweys fight?

"They want to save their friends and the world, that's their purpose, and they're unflinching in accomplishing it. The whole scenario was nothing but then achieving that, nothing about wanting to live."

I never said that wasn't the case

"Repeatedly doing kind things is not the same thing as STAYING kind yourself. Repeating that which makes you yourself is not the same as STAYING that way yourself. Repeatedly doing brave things is not the same as STAYING brave yourself".

How its related with anything at all?

"Perseverance is the ACTION of repeatedly doing the same thing over and over until you finish.

Determination (both in the game and real life) is the WILL to keep going and doing so over and over."

Perseverance is the ACTION of keep doing because of strong "firmess of purpose". You cant have Perseverance trait if you have no strong "firness of purpose"

"You come across an enemy that wants to kill you, you repeatedly (Perseverance) compliment and be nice to them (Kindness), never changing your tactic even when your near death (Determination). They're touched, no longer want to fight, and you spare them."

Nothing implies that the fallen kids acted like that

"Considering that even in Deltarune we can't use it on the surface, I think it's a safe bet that we can't at this point."

Dark world is whole different world from the lighter world. Its magical and all plus is imagined by Kris. But save load power do work on the surface :when Flowey and Frisk cross the barrier in the neutral end, Frisk can still reload. And no matter how many recept you made, the surface events wouldn't change in the true end, that means recepts affect the surface

"Everything that they've done is toward achieveing their goal of leaving the Underground/Sparing Everyone/Killing Everyone. Everything Frisk does is a result of and association with their Determination, much like how the other kids are implied to have done things and died by doing what's a result of their trait. (Running headlong into danger, doing only what you think is right, being kind, waiting, sticking to your own style, and repeating.)"

All fallen humans wanted to come back and any human would want to leave the world filled of monsters that wants their death.

"No, it's also associated with changing fate. The Monsters themselves even disprove this, by everything they do leading back to their goal of leaving the Underground and breaking the Barrier."

In the context of Alphys's entry, the fate is death as dt can't have so different functions

"Death is not fate! Fate is fate!"

Death is also a fate, everyone gonna die. Plus here what Alphys wanted to say:when humans dies, they refuse to die, so they want to change the fate that's reserved for them(death), that's why she put the "will to keep living"and "the resolve to change the fate"together.

"DETERMINATION IS NOT JUST THE WILL TO KEEP LIVING!"

Yeah, this is also the will to defy death,to overcome it. Basically the same thing as the "will to keep living"

"These little things don't make Frisk want to live more, they make them MORE DETERMINED, as in more determined to achieve their goal, more firm in their purpose."

Dt is the "will to keep living", so those stuff make frisk to want to live

"Flowey came to life BECAUSE HE WAS INJECTED WITH DETERMINATION!"

How it change at all about his ability to have dt when he came back? Keep in mind that dt is just a feeling (even so its "physical "), every little being can have it. Plus Flowey literally says that "he wanted to live because he feared to die", that means that he HAS his own dt once he came back to life

"THEY DON'T, ALL THEY HAVE IS WHAT THEY WERE INJECTED WITH!"

What does assume that Chara has no dt omce they are alive because they needed other one's dt to come back to life?? Once again, just because they needed other person's dt to come back, doesnt mean that they can't have their own. Nothing in the game implies that souless people can't have their own dt.Flowey also confirmed that they can

"Excelt they aren't alive. They're a bodyless spirit latching onto the SOUL of a child."

They say themself that they are alive, that they came to "life". They also have conscience. Even souls of death people can have dt, so why Chara couldn't?

"Excdpt they're not alive."

Except they are pretty much alive and reincarnated.

"That doesn't mean Chara is the one doing it, Frisk is the one with the power, not Chara."

Not only the save points are under Chars name, not only the recept power is also is, not only Chara can make a true reception as during the genocide ending, but they are implied to be the one who keep Frisk alive since Frisk come back to their save point right after hearing Asgore teeling CHARA to stay determined.

"The point is still gotten across, and it's still no stranger than everything else. My point stands."

Listen,Asgore NEVER tell Frisk to stay determined but he tell Chara to stay determined.So,Chara is the one who reload when Frisk dies thanks to their own dt

"As a hint to Chara and Frisk connection, and another means for Frisk to be determined."

1.Theres so many other hints of Frisk and Charas connection 2.Frisk can't be determined because of this message as this message isnt even addressed to them 3.the message is specifically about being determined, those aren't random memories to just implies the connection Frisk has with Chara

"And literally the game in its entirety."

Exept they can stop if we the player decide to stop

"The SAVE Points are ckearly a SHOWING of Determination, not DT "

Just a showing or not, its represented in yellow, the rest doesn't matter. The save points are yellow,which means that dt is yellow

"And what better trait than Determination?"

I don't care

"He outright said that they hated humanity, clearly they went doen for reasons that are not suicidal."

What's that again?? You want to say that they climbed the mountain every one dissapears to eradicate the humanity? Wtf?? Not only that but Asriels outloud says that he knows the reason why Chara climbed the mountain, if they wanted to eradicate the humans, they would never told it to Asriel.

And you completely denying the fact that Flowey says that they wanted to "erase themself from existence ", not just die to fuse with him and free the monsters.

Just because Chara hated humanity doesn't mean that they climbed the mountain to destroy it.

Plus, their plan WASNT to eradicate humanity. After all, they themself says that their plan was common with Asriel, calling it "our plan"instead of solely "my plan". The only plan they told to Asriel is to free the monsters.As this plan was common, then they had no ulteriour motives.

And they would fail to eradicat the humanity as they would share control over Asriels body with 6 other souls. So Its unlikely that they ever thought of it.

"2 - Determination isn't just SOLELY the will to keep living. STOP SIMPLIFYING IT."

Its actually you who complicate it, ading meanings that aren't even in the game.

"3 - Nothing is ever implied about Chara "having huge dt" after they die. In Genocide, they literally say that they woke up AT THE FLOWER PATCH confused about what happened, and even say THAT THE SOUL AND DT ARE NOT THEIRS. THEY HAVE NO DETERMINATION."

They says that they wake up thanks to Frisks soul and dt, not that they haven't dt alone.They likely dont want to die again before fulfilling their failed plan. Flowey even tell Chara "to take a deep breath "in the pacifist end as monsters are free, implying that Chara wants to free them during the whole game

The only trait red soul is implied to be is a complete neutral one that latter can turn into another.And that by the only stuff that indicates which trait is associated with each trait, so the ball game. Theres no other way to know which trait is associated with each soul color, so its extremely likely that this is only way we can figure out the red soul's trait.

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