Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31252171-20171008174544/@comment-32182236-20180225202159

[With "Burn in Despair"/his new form Asriel destroys the hopes and dreams of Frisk. That's why his theme takes over the fight.]

We lose our hopes slightly AFTER the theme stars playing. Asriel gets his new form, the theme begins here, then we try to ACT, and that’s when we realize we can’t move our body. With this inconsistency, the whole theory falls apart. (Plus you can still “re-fuse” during this phase-So.. yeah, we’re not giving up.)

[Something similar to "But the Earth Refused to Die" does you have, namely pure silence. Frisk gathers in this time new determination to continue the fight.]

“But the Earth Refused to Die” starts with an epic, heroic theme.. Then Battle Against a True Hero begins. Not the theme that seems like a new, epic threat is being faced.

[This is followed by "SAVE the World". Also with this title, I can not see how it should fit to Asriel. Frisk, on the other hand, tries to save all his friends and ultimately protect the world from Asriel's power.]

Titles don’t really matter. For example, the song that plays during Mettaton’s mini game to reach a can is called “Can You Really Call This a Hotel? I Didn’t Recieve a Mint on My Pillow”. This scene has nothing to do with hotels. Plus, there’s “Fallen Down”, which we know to be Toriel’s theme.. But Toriel didn’t fall down, we did! By that reasoning, Fallen Down must be Frisk’s theme too, despite all evidence to the contrary! (Combine that with yours, and Frisk’s true theme is.. Fallen Down Reprise?)

[However, you can also associate "Once Upon a Time" with a flashback that shows a crucial point in the story of the game, as it shows not only the story of Chara and Asriel, but also the war with the humans.]

So Asriel’s theme is included but mysteriously not Chara’s? Also, the war isn’t in the “Undertale”. It does exist in “Once Upon a Time”’s intro, but so does Chara, as I pointed out. And since the war is an event, and not a character or concept, it doesn’t have a theme. So that’s why Chara’s theme plays through the whole song.

[But the connection with Chara allows even more interpretations. If "Hopes and Dreams" is Frisks theme, then he/she have somehow be connected to Chara and Asriel. The problem with that is that we do not know the reason why Frisk went into the underground, so I can only speculate.]

What would the reason why Frisk fell have to do with Frisk being connected with Chara? Chara’s the narrator. That’s your connection. Plus you name Chara.

[The easiest thing to say is that Frisk wants to finish what started with Chara and Asriel. They are the beginning of the story, Frisk is the end (of the undertale). For some reason Flowey/Asriel also thinks in the game that we are Chara. Even the game lets you believe that until the end. There seems to be some connection between Frisk and Chara, otherwise he would not think we are her (yes, for me Chara is a girl).]

There is. Chara is the narrator.

[Power of "NEO" is only 31s long. His theme begins with the "hero" theme and then ... he is dead. Let's be honest. If his fight had been longer then we would have gotten a whole theme song like Undyne the Undying did. So, we only get to hear the first motive/theme.]

You can keep CHECKing or just do nothing to listen to the full theme, which just keeps on looping the “Hero” theme over and over again. Some fan extensions added in the ASGORE lietmotif for some reason, but this is meaningless, as it’s just fans trying to turn Mettaton NEO into a longer theme, and not official.

[And "bosses" also appear in series. Depending on the series, these "bosses" also have their own themes. (For example, Pain in Naruto.)]

Please explain how the idea of “bosses” are even POSSIBLE outside of a game?

[As a webcomic, I would classify Homesuck somewhere between game and series, which is actually rather irrelevant, because this is about the relation of the played music to the character.]

I would classify Homestuck as literally the SAME as a series. Not even a SPECK of “game” in the mix. Without choice, there is no game. Even linear games have a sort of “choice”, but in this case, it’s whether or not you win the game... Yeah, the Game Over screen? Yeah, that’s a thing. Choose your own adventure books are closer to games than Homestuck. And it is reverent, since you said “Megalovania” is a “boss” theme, using information outside of Undertale. And if bosses can only exist in games, that renders your boss theory as moot. Vriska isn’t a “boss”. Bosses do not exist in Homestuck, because it is not a game.

[And here MeGaLoVania always plays when Vriska turns into a megalomaniac.]

How do we know it’s even Vriska’s theme, then? Why can’t it just be the theme of the battle itself? As Homestuck isn’t a game, but rather to a series, characters having themes are less common, and events having themes are much MORE common. Closest you’ll get to a series where themes are like video games is Glitchtale.. And that’s because Glitchtale is a fan series of Undertale.

[I play too few RPGs /shooters to give you an example in which the theme of the PC plays in the game. But if there is a game that breaks with this tradition then the chance with Undertale is highest.]

And if there isn’t? (Also, Undertale’s theme is deconstructing video game mechanics, not averting them. Take SAVEs, for example. Or EXP. Or turn-based battle systems. Or- Eh, you get the point.)

[I have the feeling that you are comparing apples with coconuts here. The two "attacks" have nothing in common.]

An attack is an attack. A turn is a turn. That shouldn’t change battle rules. Papyrus’ special attack does no damage, but it uses up a turn. Therefore, his attack is mechanically the same as Undyne’s green attack.. If anything, it’s actually LESS of an attack than Undyne’s green attack, because it does nothing. Undyne can at least turn you green.

[By my definition? I just said it's normal for bosses to block the way back. In addition, I have described the difference of San's fight to other fights. He does damage and only then does the player have his turn, which makes the fight unique in Undertale.]

You said that Undyne doesn’t count and Sans does, because, and I quote, “What Sans does is something different. Sans shoots first, not only doing damage, but also can kill you. He is the only character in the game, which, besides the player, first attacks with damage.”

I pointed out how your condition can technically be met if we do the same thing you say Undyne does-Not actually attacking the enemy, making them strike first! Sure, we still have the first turn before we “wasted” it, but.. So did Undyne. Undyne COULD have attacked us first like Sans. But she wasted it on a magic attack. (I think she wanted to make things fair. I mean, she directly states she wanted a fair battle if you purposely get hit by her spears at the start enough times at the very start)

[Flowey don’t like this.]

Flowey don’t make the rules.