Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-32182236-20171217175859

"That's what I'm talking about! It changes the mechanic of the battle, it changes your fighting style. It has nothing to do with a change of mind or personality."

And yet the Red Flag reveals what the six SOUL traits are... Kindness, bravery, justice... Those are personality traits. "Kindness" is KINDNESS. You can't just twist what words mean.

"Having the soul of kindness doesn't mean you're kind to the enemy."

Correction:Having the MODE of kindness doesn't mean you're kind to the enemy.

"As I said, the object doesn't match, so it cannot be specified."

Exactly, the modes don't match the traits.

"The only explanation here is that you're trying to minimalize the damage and that you're being kind/protecting the soul."

Protecting yourself isn't kind. It's just self-preservation. It's "de-termination". It's the will to live on.

"It is never canonically proven that it reflects the personality of the human. So why couldn't it change?"

There's plenty of evidence, though. Look again at the six words the Red Flag reveals, color-coded. As you can see, there's a clear contrast between the traits the red flag reveals, and what each of the other flags specify. Especially since in the actual Ball Game, you didn't use all six traits to get the Red Flag-You need both surefire accuracy (yellow) and quick speed (orange), but nothing else to get the flag-There's a clear contrast between the fighting styles and the actual traits. They are clearly talking about two separate things.

"A patient person can be kind. A brave one can hop and twirl."

Correct-That is why multiple traits can exist-But once again, the most dominant one is the color of the SOUL. If the patient person is kind, well.. They're still more patient than they are kind, so their SOUL is light-blue.

"In these cases, their trait really changes, since it's not their personality, it's how they act."

Monsters don't change how you act, either. They change the rules of the battlefield. You can't change the former without some kind of mind-control-It's the same problem as forcibly changing one's personality.

"Of course, a default trait does exist, and they come back to it after the effect wears off. This is akin to breaking a routine in order to accomplish something."

You're not the one choosing to change your SOUL mode. The monsters get to decide when you're done being green, or being blue, or when you turn purple. Therefore, your trait does not truly change.

"You never are kind to your enemy. Never."

Yeah, you are. In the pacifist run. You can be kind to your enemy. That's a thing. It's just not caused by a green SOUL mode, since it can also happen in a Genocide Run. (Undying!)

"That's exactly what I'm arguing against. I said there's no dominant one, since what you described simply doesn't exist. Either your fighting style is to hop and twirl, or you try to minimalize the damage, or you try to end the opponent quickly, or you're patient and wait for the right opportunity, etc. You can never do two or more at the same time. You can only switch between them very quickly at most."

How about taking notes in order to minimalize damage? (It's likely still purple as the dominant style, but there is some "green" in there, based on your interpretations)

"I don't know about you, but I can't accept your view when it's based entirely on the wording of one specific line"

I don't know about you, but I can't accept quantum mechanics when it's based entirely on the results of one specific experiment. /s

"But what has priority here? Some silly minigame that could very well be metaphorical, or the actual effects of the soul colors we see in the battle?"

My theory very well explains the latter-We don't need to assign priority if we can explain both at the same time.

"That's the most bs thing you've said so far. Let's do the math. The power of 7 human souls is needed to shatter the barrier. 6 have been provided, in addition to thousands of monster souls. A single monster soul therefore has the power of around a 1/10000 of a human soul, give or take. And if I recall correctly, 1 > 1/10000. It's bigger by a huge margin. Human souls indeed are extremely powerful, and account for the majority (6/7) of the power, even if there's only 6 of them, in comparison to the thousands of monster souls that would be required. The only soul property that we know of that has similar properties is determination. Since assuming that DT is soul power poses no paradoxes, I shall do so. What about you?"

Okay, when you said "they", I thought you meant Frisk, not the entire collection of the humans. Because Frisk DOES have the SOUL power of ONE human. And Frisk played no part in destroying the barrier, it was, like I said, a combination of the six humans and nearly ALL the monster SOULS (So, it's not 1/10000, it's 10000/10000, because I meant all of them combined, like, you know, what the game actually SHOWS?)

Also, all we know is that monsters can't hold as much determination as humans... Maybe that's why they're so easy to befriend that it seems unrealistic. *wink* Alas, correlation does not imply causation. And because there's only two elements here, and 2 possibilities (Monsters have more, or humans have more) there would be a 25% chance of it happening by chance anyway-And a 50% chance of a "correlation". (Monsters having more determination and more powerful would also imply a correlation). 50% chance. We can't just disregard that!!

Also, assuming DT is SOUL power does pose a serious question:The very one that I thought you were pointing out:What would make Frisk so strong then? Considering how they can be more determined then Asriel with 6 human SOULS, plus the monsters, they'd account for all of the soul power needed to break the barrier. DT can clearly fluctuate, so if DT is SOUL power, then SOUL power can fluctuate too... Bye-bye to calling a human SOUL as "equal" to nearly all of the monster SOULS if it goes around changing from that to 6-7 times its previous determination! Why, Frisk could've shattered the barrier all by themselves if what you're saying is true!

"You know, I might as well accept the idea that when YOU close the game, Frisk presses some button that loads their last save file (you actually press and hold esc to do so, so that might as well be a representation of the button they press). I won't accept any idea that tries to merge those two however. Frisk doesn't transcend reality itself when loading. They don't transcend anything when resetting, they don't do so when saving either. I know that in order to reset, you must first close the game in order to access that option. But that could just be interpreted as an extra pop up menu when they press the mysterious load button."

Explain Omega Flowey using this headcanon, and how it brought Frisk to the void, and then I'll believe it-Because other than that, your headcanon is very plausible, and makes sense. Really, Omega Flowey's the ONLY reason why I haven't just converted to your headcanon.

"There's no proof he heard the narrator. I don't know if he can see the HUD."

He can-He mentions the "LV" in the corner, and when we and Flowey swap roles during the Omega Flowey's world, we can see his HUD. If you've previously had the power to SAVE, you can see the HUD.

"We know that Sans and Asgore can though."

We know that Sans and Asgore can see the effects of the HUD. As I've pointed out, while the HUD is invisible to monsters, one could still deduce the weirdness of its effects, which Sans likely did with Gaster, before telling Asgore about it. After all, Sans isn't convinced he's in a video game. All he knows is that there's rectangle-like shaped objects, below the battle box, that Frisk has to use to do their actions. Asgore too, he knows where the button for MERCY "should" be, and shatters it.

"But Asgore didn't hear Chara, he didn't hear the narrator. There's no reason to think that the one who can see the HUD can hear the narrator."

How do we know he didn't? We, and nobody else, remind him of Chara, after all. Perhaps that's because Chara is with us? Asgore senses their presence, by hearing them?

"And while Napstablook and Tsunderplane can both hear the narrator, there's no proof that they can see the HUD. So all in all, I don't know what was your point here."

They can't. But my point is, if you CAN see the HUD, you can READ what Chara says. This is how they communicate with Frisk, along with verbally speaking it. Evidence:"Reading this doesn't seem like the best use of your time." That's Chara. They flat-out ACKNOLWEDGE that they're speaking through text. So, if you can see the HUD, you can see the text. You can read what Chara said.

"This fanon is new to me."

Premise 1-Omega Flowey can delete SAVE files. (They actually do this in the game, so this part is canon)

Premise 2-Asriel has more DT than Omega Flowey (Also canon, Asriel has the same six SOULs as Omega Flowey, but ALSO has nearly all the monster SOULS)

Premise 3-Frisk's determination didn't change. (Your own premise)

Conclusion 1/Premise 4-Asriel can ALSO delete files, due to having the same powers as Omega Flowey. (Natural conclusion-If Frisk didn't gain extra DT, Asriel would still beat them out, and Frisk wouldn't suddenly be taking anything extra away)

Premise 5-RESET is simply "loading" a blank file. That's why it can be done without ever having SAVED. Also, when you first begin, your LV is 0, with your place being blank. This is due to a lack of data-There IS no SAVE here, so exiting and going back to LOAD will simply restart/reset.'

Premise 6-Omega Flowey can LOAD.

Conclusion 2/Premise 7-Asriel Dreemurr can LOAD.

Conclusion 3-Since Asriel can both delete files and LOAD, and RESET is simply loading a "blank" file, then Asriel can delete the SAVE file, and then LOAD the "blank" file, which, by definition, is a RESET.

"You said that actually. And now you're debunking it. Make up your mind already."

Yeah, I realized that theory was dead wrong, because of the reasons I pointed out.

"I don't even understand who besides you could come up with such an outlandish explanation in the first place."

Nochocolate literally had to make a blog post explaining why humans cannot SAVE and LOAD on the Surface. LOAD:http://nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/148803691025/chararetold-sorry-about-the-submit-instead-of-an

Of course, that blog post assumes that the fallen could SAVE and LOAD.. Circular reasoning... But as you saw, you don't need to make that assumption at all to prove humans couldn't SAVE and LOAD on the Surface.