Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31981697-20170722123329/@comment-27136653-20170902171752

1) Why did it have to wait then? And it happened after the credits, so god knows what really happened. That's why I don't take it as canon. For me, the story ends once the credits roll. I just don't see how could Asriel have the POWER to transform back into that form, just to give us another round of attacks. And explain the infinite health we've had during that attack.

2) What evidence? You mean the fact that the room is called the developer room? The fact that the game lying inside it looks awfully similar to Undertale? The fact that the annoying dog is supposed to represent Toby? The fact that the access to that room opens up only after the kickstarter credits roll (assuming we play it perfectly)?

You always use the only fact that contradicts everything else to prove you right, saying that that's how it is in the real world, that when something isn't right, the theory itself isn't right. Despite the fact that I have more supporting facts for my theory than you do for yours. In this case, the only "proof" that the room is canon is that the dog is responsible for a majority of bad posts on the internet, which Toby is not. And despite that, I can counter-argue and say that this jokingly refers to Toby's Twitter, since the entire room IS about Toby. And what canon explanation do I have for the room then? Well, I simply consider it non-existant.

3) Car door handles always have a hole, they aren't like house door handles (besides, where do you expect the door handle to be anyways?). And people purposely buy DJ discs just to achieve that special "wub-wub" effect. Yes, they can sample it and yes, they can then just press a button to play that sampled sound, but it's much better when done with an actual disc. It's like a difference between playing a guitar sound on a MIDI keyboard and playing an actual guitar, with your own fingers.

4 + 7) So you acknowledge that the screen where we name the fallen human is not canon? Because you can't explain the joystick option? And just to be clear, by menu, are we talking about the stuff that happens between the intro and the beginning of the game? I feel like you're talking about the save windows.

5) Toby, Toby, and again Toby. The intro isn't canon. He made it like that so that it would sound more "mythical". So it might not even be true in the first place. We first thought that the war was legendary, but then we learned the "truth" about it. Why do I think it was the truth? It was introduced later in the game. Flowey's true identity was also introduced later in the game. There is no way of knowing whether it is the "absolute" truth, but it at least updates the old information.

This is the kind of logic we must take here. There is no proof whether the old message or the new message is the right one, so we must go by this logic. And no, they wouldn't write ill of themselves if it wasn't the truth. If the war was really so long and epic, then they wouldn't write such lies. The monsters were desperate, but not self-deprecating. They clinged to all hope and for sure wouldn't lie about their own history JUST to make it worse than it really was. So were they just lying to make themselves LOOK more miserable in the eyes of the readers? No, what would it give them? Pity? The war was a massacre anyways, they didn't need any more pity. If they were to lie, they would rather lie about the war being epic, not about it not being epic. Do you understand?

6) Well then, I got that wrong. Still though, this does not necessarily prove that the monsters know about the narrator. After all, Frisk also does something. They press the button. So yeah, Aaron might just be reacting to Frisk's action. Though indeed some monsters do hear Chara themselves, like Napstablook and Tsunderplane.

8) But Frisk was already there when we start playing. Even if unconscious. And that's also why I think the name picking, assuming it is canon, happened as Frisk's dream. And so I'm asking, why should the "system" only acknowledge conscious beings? And I still don't understand how would erasing Chara change the Ruins in such a way that the monsters are stronger, but Toriel is still there, meaning she still left the capital to return there. The explanation you gave was poor.

9) Sounds like you're implying the "world" is a game.

10) I mean, WHY could we die during Omega Flowey's battle? I guess, not enough determination or something.

11) You already said it, we both agree.

12) She was mad with him about that too. But she left before that, as I've already explained.

13) I just go by the logic that since the button said laugh, Chara narrated a genuine laugh, but due to the situation, they couldn't help but insert a bit of sarcasm into that narration. And then Frisk disagreed, probably because Chara exaggerated it so much.

14) There is no proof that Flowey knows about the narrator. If there was, then I would actually believe what you said.

15) Or there's another possibility. I've already said that he seems to know about the player, or just knows that there's some entity watching. He always faces us, he never shows us his "shortcuts", despite Frisk being able to see them normally (even if we are Frisk, my point still stands - he is hiding it away from us; and if we are not, then he's not hiding it from Frisk, but he is still hiding it from us), and refuses to allow us in his room, since apparently it is some sort of a void, AND we can see it since the door is placed on the north wall. So when he doesn't trust us and wants to take a shortcut, he would BLIND the player. On the other hand, if we prove to him that we mean no harm (remember the legendary fartmaster), he gives us his key.

Just the fact that his actions seem to be pointed against us, not against Frisk speaks for itself. But again, half of that could just be Toby's humor.