Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190403163405/@comment-26006155-20190415054540

https://undertale.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:157112#135 Reply to Ambassador’s commentary to Chapter 2

There’s a reason that Flowey is so confused on whether he’s talking to Frisk or Chara. Frisk and Chara are somehow linked through time.

And Frisk was infected by Chara’s essense at the start of the game when he landed on the bed of golden flowers that grew right where he fell. Which mirrors the next time he fell when Undyne cut the bridge, and he fell on a SECOND patch of golden flowers that had pre-emptively grown right in that unnatural spot… somehow knowing that they had to be there to catch Frisk/Chara’s fall.

When Frisk acts more like himself, Chara’s influence retreats, finally leading up to Asriel realizing he’s a different person in the True Pacifist Route.

But when Frisk acts violent, and channels his inner Chara.. He starts acting more like a zombie. Papyrus describes Chara’s motions very well, as a dead thing walking, able to creep out even a living skeleton.

And Sans in the No Mercy route can tell a ghost is controlling Frisk, because he quips that he should try to ACT human, even if he isn’t one. And Asgore can’t tell what type of monster is by looking at Chara, while he could identify Frisk immediately.

So in No Mercy, Chara’s essense is taking over Frisk. And when it does completely, she steals his soul.

So when Flowey is talking to Chara and talking about “You and your stolen SOUL”, Flowey is actually right. He is talking to Chara.

And while talking at the end of the No Mercy route, Flowey ironically notes that since both he and Chara are creatures that have no compassion, they wouldn’t hesitate to kill each other. Which is exactly when Chara gives him her trademark creepy smile, and Flowey suddenly experiences Mortal Terror for the first time, realizing he’s not going to like how the run ends.

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How could the flowey patches in inhospitable places be the result of Determination alone? If it was Determination alone, the flowers would be *EVERYWHERE*, every rock in the place would be covered, right up to the ceiling.

Instead.. We only see those two strange patches, exactly where Frisk ends up falling. Even though the flowers picked those exact spots long before Frisk arrived.

You assume that Chara had no dust. But can you prove that? If Chara’s soul was in Asriel, and fragments of it were in Asriel’s dust, how you can say Chara’s essense wasn’t in the dust, too?

You keep docking me points for making speculative statements. Now prove that one. Especially when there’s evidence of Chara’s essense being in the golden flower patches. (how else would they know to grow where they did?)

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You say the Determination experiments began after the sixth human fell? Can you prove this?

Alphys was hired a long time after Gaster died, yet she found his DT extraction machine notes in the True Lab.

If you’re going to make a definitely statement of exactly when the experiments started, you’re going to need evidence.

I hold that the existence of such experiments at a time when no known humans were in the Underground proves that there WERE humans hiding in the underground. Specifically two: Gaster and Sans.

Frisk isn’t the one wrecking Papyrus’ puzzles because that only happens on a No Mercy route. Which is the only time Sans says that Frisk ISN’T a human.

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The last thing we see of Sans is when he drags himself off to Grillby’s and says something about seeing Papyrus again.

Since the wound didn’t outright kill him, why couldn’t Sans just eat some food and warp back to high HP again? We know he eats tons and tons of food. That’s probably why he was hitting Grillby’s.

And we don’t get a “You Won” at the end of the Sans fight. Which we should have gotten, if Sans had fallen.

So you can’t just handwave and say that Sans dies at the end of his fight. The evidence isn’t conclusive enough to make that determination.

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Hold on, you can’t say that Chara kills Alphys, Bratty, Catt, Burgerpants, and Monster Kid. Alphys took all of them (and herself) to somewhere where ‘Chara could never get to them.’

I hold she takes them to Another Dimension. Somewhere that would survive even the end of the timeline.

This is probably why Toby said he hates the term “Genocide Run”, since that doesn’t actually happen.

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A True Reset is different from a normal reset. Because during normal resets Flowey DOES remember what happened before. Yet with a True Reset, even his memories are erased.

This means that the world HAS BEEN RESET when the restart the game. Which is why Asriel now looks like Flowey again. He didn’t fade, WE RESET HIM.

And the reason he wonders if we haven’t True Reset him hundreds of times before, is that if we did, he’d never remember it, so he has no way of knowing that.