Talk:Chara/@comment-37748092-20200123210923/@comment-32182236-20200210195449

Alright, now I'm returning to this discussion.

Let's see what happened while I was gone.

..Oh. That's a lot. Let's see if I can resolve this.

Realizing that you can SAVE something else was flavor text, meaning it, by your logic, came from Chara. You can't apply/ignore the Narrator!Chara theory (which is apparently canon) whenever it's convienent to you.

Yes, the text did come from Chara.

But assuming that means they gave us the idea, rather than just stating the already obvious fact, is not justified.

A few moments ago, flavor text didn't come from Chara.

I see you count Asriel as a boss?

You literally can't lose against Asriel. And it's not like there's a way to kill him. They said nothing on the True Pacifist route indicating they wanted to kill/fight anyone. Therefore, your "we judge them for what could've happened" point is invalid.

And they also said nothing on the Genocide route (or even the Pacifist Route!) indicating that they wanted to spare anyone.

They say in Genocide they want to fight, and in Pacifist, they don't make it clear what they want.

What's more reasonable? That the thing they want is always to fight, or that, for some reason, it just happens to be different in Pacifist, without any evidence supporting it?

And why should Chara have to tell you not to kill someone?

If Chara sees us killing someone, I'm pretty sure that means the point hasn't been made that killing monsters is a bad thing. Plus, the monster literally brought us into a FIGHT, so we could kill them simply out of self-defense. And guess what happens because they didn't help us out?

If we get stuck on Papyrus, Undyne, Mettaton.. We just kill them, when we could have spared them, if only we were guided along. (Toriel has also accidentally been killed because of the Froggit getting missed.)

Moments like this don't happen in Genocide, though, because they make it very clear what we need to do to progress. Kill THIS many, and in the one case where it WOULD be possible to accidentally abort Genocide, Chara makes sure we don't get "Gotcha'd", by flat-out telling us not to proceed over to Monster Kid.

You might make the "it's an RPG so you instinctively kill enemies" argument, but Undertale is not a game in canon. Chara is a character in the game, so they can't break canon.

Correct. But what about "killing gives EXP which gives LOVE which makes us stronger against more monsters?" That is a canon thing.

This point only works if Chara themselves attempted to fight a monster but didn't kill it, which never happens, regardless of what route you're on.

Okay, what if someone flat-out TOLD you to drive recklessly, and you did because they told you to? Are they completely blameless?

Or what if there was, say, a fire, and you, as a firefighter, are expected to put it out... But nobody told you how to use the tools to do it, and because of that, the building burned down? Wouldn't the agency you work for at least get some of the blame, for not properly training you?

--

"Huh? WHY am I still doing this? Don't you get it? This is all just a GAME. If you leave the underground satisfied, you'll "win" the game. If you "win", you won't want to "play" with me anymore. And what would I do then?"

As the next post points out, this is not meant to mean an actual, digital game. Moreso what we might consider a game.

Think about it like this:

Before we came along, Flowey was quite bored, having already tried all the possible things he could do. We were someone new for him to play with. And when he discovered his ability was gone, we, in essence, became the "player". So Flowey decided to give us a "game":If we want to free the monsters, we have to "win". If the monsters are free, we have no reason to "play" anymore. And since Flowey wants someone to play with, he doesn't want that to happen. Thus, he'd rather make it so that we almost win, so we don't give up.. But always lose, and have to restart.

That's essentially what's going on.

Seems like the dog needs to "patch" the fabric".

Yes. There's a hole that needs to be patched. Simple as that.

"The demon that comes when people call its name" would be considered a metaphor aswell.

Considering that Chara is something that has the power to erase the world, and is Soulless, and not quite physical at first, they're not exactly human anymore. So while they might not be a demon, they're not really human. You might see me call the form a "demon", but that's simply because it's the best name I have, being the only possibility directly referenced.

It's already easy to tell. Obviously, Toriel did not make us "buttspie"

Hypothesis to test the likelihood of:Do the item names also come from the narrator?

If so, it could actually be a joke... Made by the narrator.