Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-28175157-20160624105722/@comment-4560646-20160702174344

TayDaMeifwa wrote: This doesn't really matter, but I just wanted to point out: At least Flowey tried to be a good person. He made the effort to try and feel love again, and he pleased everyone. And then when he discovered his Reset power, he probably thought: Hey, it's not like they'll remember anything. I'll just bring them back! So what happens if I kill them instead? But, Chara openly tried to destroy the entire world and was content with eternal nothingness without any thought of trying to be a good person. That's why people forgive Flowey/Asriel so fast. Because he made the effort to feel feelings.

Only if you lead them into thinking Power is everything. You're taking the Genocide Route and saying it represents Chara as a whole. Plus, there's this:

http://66.media.tumblr.com/e29c2cf3459c162e96bd6732962052db/tumblr_inline_o63frwVNlW1th1axb_540.gif

Even in the Genocide Route, the photo of Chara's family still gives them pause, while Flowey wouldn't give half a shit about it.

~AncientAmber~ wrote: This is just speculation of mine, but remember how Asriel tells us that Chara wasn't the greatest person? That means that, at one point, he realized something bad about Chara, but we don't know what. They could have been dark at times, or selfish, or mean, who knows. We can see that Asriel is a very young, innocent, and helpful child. Despite being soulless, Flowey could've kept these traits, and that is the reason why he tried to help people at first before deciding it was too boring. But if Chara was any of the things mentioned above, then they wouldn't have wasted much of their time trying to be friends with anyone.

Not being the greatest person =/= Being a horrible person.

Asriel said this because he thought Chara was above imperfections - which is an unhealthy thing to do. It's only after the True Pacifist route that he learns that Chara is flawed, and that's a great thing to do - idolizing people is awful. But just because Chara isn't perfect doesn't mean they're evil - if that were the case, then we all would be evil, because nobody's perfect. (Except Papyrus)

Besides, if what you said was true, then why did Chara befriend Asriel, and gave so much hope to the rest of the Underground?

~AncientAmber~ wrote: Besides, Chara is a ghost of some sort and never comes to life until the end of a Genocide. How could they help people in that state? It is true that this human can take control over people, but that is a matter of how much EXP/LOVE they gained, and I highly doubt any monster could have any of those two stats anywhere near high.

Ah, but they are awake through the entire game. They just choose not to manifest themselves until the very end of Genocide, where they no longer love Asriel, and instead project a Best Friend relationship on you. (Why would Chara show their entire life to some random child they've been around with for like a few days?) Also, control is not based on EXP or LOVE, Chara seems to be able to control Frisk whenever they want. Case in point: When Frisk automatically moves behind the lamp, and when they stop Frisk from donating more than 35 Gold to Gyftrot("Hey, now. You aren't made of money").

Plus, Chara starts controlling Frisk only in the Genocide Route. You can do a full Geno Route and abort it in Hotlands at LOVE 19, and Frisk will stop violently moving without your input. If Chara's control was dependent on EXP/LOVE, they would forbid us from stopping a Genocide Route as soon as we start it. Not to mention there's proof that they're with Frisk in the Pacifist Route too - both the flashback thing already mentioned before, and this:

http://66.media.tumblr.com/dc237b32576f4917cb6a9e8e618d20c2/tumblr_inline_o22ttwuHIB1th1axb_540.png

Context: When you boot up the game after getting the True Pacifist ending. Flowey here is talking to Chara, not to us. (Although we are also supposed to take the speech personally as well) Honestly, if this doesn't show that Chara was awake in True Pacifist, I don't know what that's supposed to mean. Some people say Flowey confused us for Chara, but come on. These same people say Asriel meant "Chara really was a horrible person" when he said Chara wasn't the greatest, so by their logic Asriel/Flowey should hate Chara, instead of reassuring that everyone's fine.

http://65.media.tumblr.com/a7e69decd563539dda4f5d63cbf4c74a/tumblr_inline_o22uidu7vt1th1axb_540.png http://66.media.tumblr.com/c4d631fb484556890b30a8e768fc78ef/tumblr_inline_o22ulavX8z1th1axb_540.png

Because of this, it seems that Chara is using Frisk in order to help the monsters during True Pacifist, by befriending Papyrus, Undyne and Alphys, and finding a way to open the barrier peacefully. The idea of the True Pacifist Route being Chara's redemption arc is really touching in my opinion, as I'm a fan of Tragic Chara.