Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-27907368-20160428221757/@comment-27907368-20160429101450

First and foremost: thank you for your reply! I love hearing from other fans and theorists, especially ones that put effort into their responses! :D ''I’m putting a note here: my friend spoke briefly with Toby and he (apparently) said he doesn’t like the term “genocide”. I don’t really like it either, so I’m going to use dust lust. ^^’ Thank you for understanding, love you all. <3'' I was quite excited about some parallels my one friend hypothesized and it showed in the eclectic presentation of the first section. The critical dogma is that the player, Chara and Frisk work together in Undertale. So long as we agree that Frisk and the player are not synonymous, the theory works. I’ll try to explain why I ventured down the determination-lies-with-us path. '''The protagonist’s actions – are they important? Quick answer: sometimes.'''
 * Chara and Frisk are similar in that they have specific requirements that need to be met before they declare themselves. Both essences can only gain full control in one specific route. This is why I look on the protagonist as a vessel that could either harbor Frisk or Chara; the two spirits are at odds within the physical form. The player guides the vessel and can choose to relinquish control to either human.
 * The player takes control of the protagonist in one way or another. Post-pacifist Flowey tells Chara as much: “Leave Frisk alone”. In dust lust, he says that Chara is running with a stolen SOUL. At the end of genocide, who has Frisk’s SOUL? Do we play as Frisk? Given the aforementioned quote, I don’t believe we do.
 * So, what are we if not these two pivotal characters? I believe we’re a good source of determination that keeps resetting and trying again before Frisk or Chara has been fully awoken. I’m not trying to detract from their power or marginalize them; I recognize that they have opposite endings and that these endings have the same probability of occurring at the beginning of a timeline.
 * In the beginning, neither essence has self-determination, or the ability to choose a path without being controlled. This may be why we don’t get Frisk’s ability of “re-fusing”; they’re apathetic and find it hard to be determined when they are a part of timeline that they are witnessing more than choosing. And maybe Chara is bogging them down. I don't know.

I think we agree that independent actions in the dust lust route are notable. Seeing that many neutral and true pacifist actions remain the same, I will overlook the vast majority of the game. However, the true pacifist ending surely exemplifies Frisk; they name themselves in this route. http://undertale.wikia.com/wiki/Mettaton/In_Battle - a prompt wasn’t provided

During the Asriel fight, the protagonist reaches for their SAVE file without a prompt . This is the first time the protagonist even mentions SAVE files. After the battle, they tell Asriel that their name is Frisk. They aren’t Chara and they aren’t the player. If you talk to Mettaton after the barrier is broken, he will ask you a question in which the dialogue box tells you “(A yes or no prompt was not provided.)” Mettaton reacts as if we agreed with him.

It’s important to note that neither essence is us and that they eventually take control from us (or we give it to them; whichever you’d prefer). Frisk’s essence is kinder than Chara’s in this regard.

'''Chara and Frisk – sharing a SOUL post-pacifist (and not post-genocide?)? '''

Yep. How else does Chara have the ability to perform a true reset? They do not possess their own SOUL and are bound to Frisk. Recall that they have to ask us for a SOUL in the end of genocide.

Frisk’s SOUL did show an ability to re-fuse at the end of true pacifist; this ability is reminiscent of the Amalgamates’. Determination made the fallen monsters melt together and we know that there is a lot of determination flowing in this final battle – is it completely unfounded to think that Chara’s essence becomes fused to Frisk’s SOUL?

'''FLOWEY’s warning – short redux. '''

We can only see things when a physical form exists. In the end of dust lust, Chara laughs at us as she approaches and slices our body. When we reload the game, we see nothing; this may be because we no longer have a body. We’re a SOUL, floating in the void.

So, FLOWEY speaking to us means that we have a body. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be able to see. Since I think Chara and Frisk are fused and share a body, what else am I to do than to explain it this way. ^^’

Soul jumping in Asriel’s boss fight 

Chara is the demon that comes when they are called. Asriel was his innocent little self before he said Chara’s name and transformed into the God of Hyperdeath. Chara is never distinguished from the protagonist, either. And yet, they aren’t one and the same. I’m going to attempt some bullet points: '''Why does it matter who is where? ''' <p style="font-weight:normal;">The battle mechanics change based on the stage of this fight. Let’s look into them. Chara is called into Asriel. Frisk’s SOUL now re-fuses. Also unique to this battle: <p style="font-weight:normal;">After calling for Chara to SAVE them: <p style="font-weight:normal;">That’s an interesting detail to add. Is it somehow relevant to Frisk? Maybe we just experienced that and Asriel is giving us a clue by four that the same thing will happen to Frisk - which is what allows for a true reset.
 * Chara enjoys STATS and the number 9. There are an abundance of 9’s in Asriel’s game data. The same applies for the Lost Souls.
 * This someone else appears after we save our monster friends. I can remember one character that had a goat family and was a beacon of hope to monsters.
 * You reach out and call their name. Not his. You know Asriel’s name. Chara is not fully distinguished from him because Chara isn’t a person; they are an essence that is corrupting Asriel.
 * Boss Asriel is smiling until we SAVE this “someone else”. Then, he starts crying. This is Chara’s smiling changing into Asriel’s crying. After being SAVED, Chara ebbs from Asriel and returns to Frisk.
 * We have so much determination by the end of the battle that Chara comes back to our SOUL. Remember that Chara doesn’t require STATS to be called – their prerequisites are a “human soul” and “determination”.
 * The third person perspective we see is the same as the beginning of Undertale – before Asriel was introduced. The story of Chara falling is shown in sepia, in third person. The same style is seen here (and in the true pacifist photo).
 * Hoping and Dreaming. Both facets that further solidify the inability to lose this fight. Hope gets you a bunch of Last Dreams and Dreaming reduces his attack.
 * Last Dream – “The goal of “Determination”.”
 * SAVE-ing.
 * The SOUL will not shatter. Instead, its HP approaches 0 but never reaches 0 . I remember Chara breaking rules to win in the dust lust route, too.
 * After the fight, Asriel says that he had the compassion of every monster in the Underground because all of their SOULs were inside of him. The Lost Souls are hopeless shadows of what they were – so something changed from him getting their SOULs to them fighting us.
 * Asriel overpowered Chara once. What's changed here? Well, there are a lot more STATs involved. Chara-in-life likely didn't have STATs because she didn't kill monsters.
 * He never directly apologizes for the battle. Even in his post-pacifist flowerbed scene, he says that he did some weird stuff as a flower... no mention of the goat thing.
 * Then, he tells us that Chara wasn’t the best and that they shared control over their body when they went to the Surface originally.

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<p style="font-weight:normal;">Man. This is a lot, and I am sorry if it's more than what you asked about. Gah. D:

<p style="font-weight:normal;">I will respond to more later – I think maybe I addressed some things possible? :D Thank you for your time, again! <p style="font-weight:normal;"> <p style="font-weight:normal;"> <p style="font-weight:normal;"> <p style="font-weight:normal;"> <p style="font-weight:normal;"> <p style="font-weight:normal;">

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Before you say that it’s a game, we have to make choices – we don’t at the end of genocide. Chara takes over completely. This is how they must have seen us when we first started killing monsters with such enthusiasm. Blatant disregard for life. The human body acts as a vessel for determination. In Undertale, it acts as a battleground between Chara and Frisk. However, To answer this, I will explain how the save feature is neither Frisk nor Chara’s. There’s a bit of me talking about determination and the body first because the being with the most determination can save. Body sharing is something discussed by Asriel. The player is a source of determination outside of Frisk and Chara that ultimately decides the course of the game. The physical manifestation (in game). The place where humans keep all of their determination. The player is not attuned to this body at all – in no route are we aware of the protagonists’ expression even though NPCs often comment on it. Frisk and Chara, the in-game spirits, vie for control of the body. After desolating the Ruins, the protagonist does not talk to NPCs. Papyrus tells us that the protagonist “shambles from place to place” – which we do not do in neutral or pacifist. This either means that Frisk is resisting Chara moving forward or that Chara is the sole provider of determination for the vessel. Being disembodied for so long may make walking difficult. The language becomes first person long before New Home; in Waterfall Monster Kid is “in my way”. By sans’ boss fight, Chara is in control. Frisk’s essence is long gone. How does this being live on? Chara’s stolen <p style="font-weight:normal;"> <p style="font-weight:normal;">

<p style="font-weight:normal;">The ability to SAVE – and the power of determination. Body sharing is something discussed by Asriel. However, Chara isn’t even a part of the equation in neutral and pacifist runs because they gain no STATS and no power. Amalgamates are the result of monsters having an unnatural amount of determination. We are the lightning rod of determination at the offset of Undertale; Chara and Frisk’s essences become intertwined because of us. Is it Chara that has the ability to save, load and reset? Definitely not, as they require our SOUL at the end of a genocide run. Is it Frisk? I believe that you’ve made the parallel to the player being Frisk and I will respond with that in mind. Odd that we don’t name the person that we control, though. Frisk names themselves at the end of true pacifist. Otherwise, we are referred to as “you”. Why is the name of the protagonist obfuscated so much? Alright, the physical manifestation. The place where humans keep all of their determination. The player is not attuned to this body at all – in no route can we ever see the protagonists’ expression though NPCs often comment on it. Frisk and Chara, the in-game spirits, vie for control of the physical manifestation. After desolating the Ruins, the protagonist does not talk to NPCs. Papyrus tells us that the protagonist “shambles from place to place” – which we do not do in neutral or pacifist. <p style="font-weight:normal;"> When Frisk is fully invested in the Asriel battle, we get the ability that amalgamates have: de-termination. The SOUL re-fuses. This is because both the player and Frisk are contributing determination.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Why does this ability not surface in the Photoshop Flowey battle? Is facing an evil hyper-realistic demi-god not enough reason to want to survive? Frisk is like Chara in that they need to have a specific set of requirements met before they step in. Until those requirements are met, they are forced to lay back and obey our will (for the most part). They do not have the most determination. Self-determination is the ability to choose what route you take without someone else controlling you. No matter the route, we have to drag the protagonist through the game. We know Frisk’s ending is the pacifist one. Why then, do they get the wonderful idea of turning all monsters to dust? They don’t. We do.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Determination is defined as the “The will to keep living. The resolve to change fate.” The ability that Frisk shows at the end of pacifist is de-termination, akin to what the Amalgamates do. It removes the need for SAVEing and LOADing. The SAVE option is offered only when Frisk is fully invested. In neutral endings, the player is the main source of determination. Chara wants more STATS, Frisk wants less STATS and more friends. The player chooses to play the game and guide the protagonist down a certain route.