Talk:Eight Humans/@comment-5002977-20160311182910/@comment-2179912-20160407021550

No, in my opinion Chara and Frisk just happened to share the power of Determination which is symbolized by a red soul, and possibly allows them to Save. I'm pretty sure the other humans could not Save, plus Flowey was able to Save as well when injected with enough Determination (at least before Frisk appeared and after Chara vanished) so if Red Soul = Determination, it's connected with the ability to Save and therefore go back and change the timeline at will.

Although if that's true and Red Soulds can Save, that means Chara could Save too... and I'm not sure if they ever did that.

However, apparently only one person can control a timeline at a time, so when Frisk gradually loses their determination, and Chara becomes increasingly powerful as Frisk succumbs to their influence more and more, Chara ends up having more determination than Frisk (even though their Determination is fueled by a murderous intent) and thus they latch onto Frisk and assume partial control over the following timelines and mess with subsequent True Pacifist runs.

The thing is, Chara is dead -- but their soul (or what's left of it) persevered without a body, and whenever Frisk chooses to do a Genocide run, they find fertile ground to latch onto them and slowly start acting through them, often gaining control over Frisk's very body momentarily, when Chara's desire to kill exceeds the player's (and thus, Frisk's) determination to do anything else, and so they take control over the body's actions.

The real questions are:

1) Was Chara able to save? 

2) Was Chara's soul red?

3) Is a Red Soul exclusively connected to Determination, or is it just a basic Soul Mode that offers free movement?

These are extremely important because:

If Chara was a Red Soul but could not Save, that means that Determination is a quality that practically any Soul can have and not just Red Souls.

If Chara was not a Red Soul and could not Save, that pretty much leaves both options open because it doesn't confirm or deny the possibility of Determination being unrelated to Red Souls.

If Chara was not a Red Soul and could actually Save, which is pretty much impossible to confirm or deny, it proves that any Soul, monster or human, can Save if they have more Determination than everything else.

Personally I am inclined to believe that Determination is unrelated to Red Souls, because Asriel's forte was definitely not Determination (perhaps it is Remorse?) yet when artificially injected with a huge amount, he was able to freely Save and Load -- at least until Frisk came.

That indicates that Chara probably did not have the ability to save.

Now Frisk's forte is definitely Determination since it was so strong that it awoke Chara's soul the moment they entered the Underground.

So my overall explanation of how Chara manages to destroy the world and then ruin subsequent True Pacifist endings is that, once Frisk is set on a Genocide run, their Soul becomes to silimar to Chara's murderour intents so they latch onto Frisk's body and occasionally control their actions too.

So once a Genocide run is complete, Chara is perfectly synchronized with Frisk and they act through them.

How? Well, Chara does not have enough Determination to Save independantly on their own, but their murderous intent is so strong that once Frisk is attuned to that way of thinking by having a very high LOVE, Frist cannot stop Chara from influencing him and even forcing him to certain actions, usually managing to take control at the most emotional moments. Among those forced actions is the world's destruction once a Genocide Run is completed (a very unpleasant, and thus emotional situation) and also when subsequent True Pacifist runs are completed (also an extremely moving and emotional moment) Chara's soul is still attached to Frisk and forces them to spoil the happy ending.