Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20160613103837/@comment-27620479-20160614144322

BlackfootFerret wrote: Isthereaplace wrote: Right now all I get is that in order to make sure Asriel returns, there must be multiple levels of soullessness, and Chara must be bad. Or something like that. Well, we know from the Tapes in the True Lab, and Asriels' final dialog when you find him again at the beginning of the game, that Chara was not a nice person.

She thought it was funny when Asgore got poisoned by buttercups, Asriel wants her to demonstrate her 'creepy smile', Chara herself is the architect of the plan where she herself dies, and Asriel absorbs her soul, telling him that they can go together to her villiage, collect six souls, then return and free his people. And it was a lie, because Chara instead tried to take Asriel over, and force him to kill her entire villiage, her goal from the beginning. Chara is NOT a nice person, she lacks Compassion for others, and always did.

Asriel is never soulless, he started with his monster soul, absorbed Chara's soul, then died with Chara's absorded soul still part of his essense. Then Asriel comes back as Flowey, possessing only Chara's compassion-less soul now, and finds that he can't feel love no matter how hard he tries. Then Frisk restores his sense of Compassion in the final fight, saving both Asriel, and Chara, in the same act.

Over time, as Gerson says, Asriel will be getting soul energy from his parents, and his monster soul will reform. Then he'll have 2 again. And there's event the possibility that once he has his own monster soul back, someone could find a way to remove and ressurect Chara.

No, we get to know Chara wasn't the best. Not that they weren't good or nice, and even less that they were outright bad or malicious. They just wouldn't get a 100% rating despite being Asriel's best friend. I know about someone else, who is a hero to all monsters, and even the narrator, but would fail to achieve 100% Asriel-approvance. Monster Kid outright idolizes her, Papyrus looks up to her, Asgore is proud of her, Alphys fell in love with her but thinks she's way under her league: Undyne. Is Undyne a good person? Yes. She is reliable, strong, would go to any length for her kind, and is even fair with her enemies. We know she would kill any number of humans necessary, but wouldn't even hurt monsters - why is it so hard to imagine that Chara may had similar standing? Is she the best? No. She's hot headed, violent, and is hostile on multiple levels even towards a pacifist protagonist, who is already friends with Papyrus. She even calls them a coward if they save Monster Kid, but later reveals in an optional phone call, that she was relieved that they did.

Laughing off isn't finding something funny: it is trying to lighten something that you don't find funny. Even Asriel agrees that what Chara did was correct, and he wouldn't think laughing at the suffering of his father is correct. Yes, the plan comes from Chara, and they somewhat press Asriel into doing it (kind of how Undyne presses Papyrus into helping her hunt down his new friend). It wasn't a lie: Chara refers to it as "our" plan, and Asriel only agreed to kill six humans, as evidenced by the video tapes. Anything planned beyond that wouldn't be "our" plan, but "my" plan. Also, if Chara is the narrator, they are compassionate - except not for humans. It seems no one thought about what could possibly have driven Chara up Mount Ebott. Certainly nice and compassionate and rainbows with sugar lumps on them human behaviour, and not the selfish, abusive, greedy, pitch black in a starless night during lunar eclipse in a lightless cellar kind that got them to slaughter and imprison monsters.

Asriel is, as Flowey, soulless. He even describes himself as "empty inside". He acts on a personal code that is the polar opposite of his former behaviour. Asriel mentions that his and Chara's souls were combined. The two should have suffered the same fate, or ended up in the same place. Not in Flowey, since he has less determination than Frisk, and with a monster and human soul combined, extra determination injected in, that shouldn't happen.

Yes, if Asriel ever gains a soul, he may get back to his original self, and continue to gain energy from his parents. In his soulless flower form, it doesn't seem to happen, as Asgore and Toriel didn't really get old, despite Undyne only guessing, and Alphys and Papyrus are oblivious to, that Toriel is Asgore's ex - and we know Undyne was a child when she started training with Asgore.