Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31536324-20190117214835/@comment-32182236-20190118201451

Looks like you beat me to it! Then again, given the time it was between the post limit being reached and now..

Either way, I suppose I'll restate my main defense of the Red Trait being DT here, so things will at least make sense to people not aware of the prior thread.

Why Determination IS indeed the Red Soul Trait!

While the red SOUL trait was never explicitly said, we are given a few clues about it. First, it needs to be something that combines the six other traits-The 1st red flag makes it very clear that the red trait is thencombination of the other six. Second, it needs to be something that Frisk has demonstrated across all routes-After all, Frisk has the red trait, so they must demonstrate it-Else they'd have a different trait! Frisk cannot be classified as a different trait under ANY route, under ANY canon circumstances, because we always see them with a red SOUL in-game! (canon circumstances-Circumstances that you can actually get yorself into within the actual game. "What-if" scenarioes inaccessible from the game do not count, and Frisk is allowed to have a different trait then)

--Analyzing The Six Traits--

So then, what exactly ARE the six traits we all know and love? Well, it's nice that we're given more than just a word, and a full-on description instead. So, let's take a look.

Orange-You are the kind of person who rushes fist-first through obstacles.

This trait is named "Bravery" by the 1st Red Flag. This also fits the description in a way-You rush through the obstacles, instead of cowering in fear and just running away.

Yellow-Your sure-fire accuracy put an end to the mayhem of "Ball".

This is named "Justice". So, what do we have? We have surefire accuracy, putting an end to "mayhem", for "justice".

Mayhem can can mean a state of violent disorder-Mainly, a state of chaos. Surefire accuracy is a skill, not a trait, but it's important, because that means it's a trait which is linked to this skill. And Justice is a form of a rigid system, punishing evil fairly. And indeed, and orderly system is the only way to achieve such surefire accuracy. Not only that, it directly opposes and seeks to end chaos, which we showed mayhem basically is. Put all that together, and Justice is a sense of order.

Green-Your concern and care for "Ball" led to a delicious victory.

This is named "Kindness." This is one of the more complex ones to dissect, and we'll get back to it later.

Light Blue-You waited still, for this oppertunity.. Then dethroned "Ball" with a sharp attack.

This is called "Patience". And it fits very well. This is pretty self-explanatory.

Blue-"Hopping and twirling, your original style pulled you through."

This is named "Integrity". At first, the description and word seem at total odds with one another, but there IS a way to reconcile the two. Two ways, actually.

The first is that you're being honest with YOURSELF, and therefore, adhering to your original style. The second way is to take another, lesser-known definition of integrity.

"Someone's high artistic standards or standards of doing their job, and that person's determination to not lower those standards."

That leads far more directly to following your own, original style, and makes it clear that what we're looking for here is creativity. Putting your own style to use.

Purple-Even when you felt trapped, you took notes and achieved the end of "Ball".

The name given is "Perservearance". And given what we're told in the description, fighting on through the long journey is a huge motif here. "Taking notes" implies an analytic perspective. Combine the two, and you get trial-and-error.

Now, take a look at all the flags. They all share one thing in common. They ALL mention things you do to solve problems. This is key. It'll help us solve the final trait. Now, let's analyze it very carefully.

Green-Your concern and care for "Ball" led to a delicious victory.

Once again, it's the method to solve a problem. But why would concern and care for the enemy help you win? Well, just like before, we need to look at other defintions.

Care need not be empathetic. It's simply whether or not you think it deserves attention, if it's a matter of significant importance. Concern is similiar:If something concerns you, that could just mean it has an effect on you, or has to do with you!

Given all of this, what COULD solve the problem? Proper passion! (Which Undyne shows!)

So, that's what green is. It's passion (which COMpassion is asubset of).

So we need something that puts all of these things together. And something Frisk demonstrates.

---What is Determination?---

Determination is defined as "firmness of purpose-Resolution". In Undertale, it's "the resolve to change fate." This resolution very well seems like a way to solve problems, yes?

Some have more determination than others. For instance, Undyne's determination can be enough to literally have her resist death, and even reaches the point where she starts to melt like an Amalagamate at the end! Clearly, this varies from monster to monster.

The Seventh Trait:What is it?---

Given this, determination makes quite a good candidate for being the Seventh Trait. It even fits the criteria of being all six together! Passion to do something is needed to fuel determination. If you're not going to fight on even as things get tough, you don't have determination! If you're not brave, you're not determined either! Without order, there is merely chaos, and thus, there cannot exist a firm purpose. And surely, you need standards and principals to build your original style from! Your OWN principals. Without these thngs, how determined really ARE you?

You need blue to form your prinipals, and yellow to order them up and make them rigid. That, together, forms your purpose. Green is your passion to fulfill that purpose. Light Blue is how long you're willing to wait, Purple is how long you're willing to fight, despite failure after failure, and orange is how big of onstacles you're willing to overcome. All these things are properties of Determination. And the seventh trait must be something that naturally combines the six into one. What better candidate than Determination?

Of course, there have arisen counterarguments to this hypothesis.

SOUL Power:Is THAT Determination?

If SOUL power is determination, then determination cannot be the red trait, as traits can fluctuate, and SOUL power cannot, due to it being a very clear metric used. However, evidence suggests DT AN fluctuate! As I had stated earlier, determination is different from monster to monster, and clearly fluctuated with Undyne. Ours does as well! In Omega Flowey's fight, we have no control over our SAVE powers. So we have less than him. But in Asriel's fight, where Asriel can only have MORE dermination than Omega Flowey, WE have control, so we have MORE than him! So we have MORE than we did before, which is why we gain the ability to REFUSE!

And if you're going to separate DT into "mental DT" and "physical DT" to get around this, do note that we're talking about the mental, trait-component part of DT. Which isn't SOUL power, and almost certainly is the seventh trait.

--Being Yourself:Is that a Trait?--

No. It isn't. We already showed that was integrity. However, the 2nd Red Flag is indeed important, because it tells us that is a part of the red trait. Being yourself, fulfilling your own goals. Use the traits to do this. It's definitely still determination. Just being yourself fails to account for the other five traits, and you can't say it's none of the six, because it's Integrity.

--Everyone has DT, right? How can that be a Trait?--

Yes, everyone has DT. Just like everyone has bravery, not to cower in fear at everything they see, have passion to do stuff, have patience, since they don't grow impatient after literally 1 Planck Time has passed without them getting what they want, etc. Everyone has some of all six traits. But it's how well they balance that determines the trait given. Here's a hypothetical formula:

DT=min(Bravery, Justice, Kindness, Patience, Integrity, Perservearance) [Just means DT is the same as the lowest of these six]

After which, decrement the values of all of the other six traits by the value of DT. Then, whichever trait has the highest value is the one chosen.

This can function quite well.