Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-32182236-20180104155430/@comment-32182236-20181005204033

"I guess the difference is that the "antagonist" characters in Undertale aren't 1 dimensional and have complex morality greying reasons beyond "cuz evil that's why! mwa ha ha" Kind of like real life."

Of course, perhaps the same is the case in those games as well, and we don't know it. Link, you can stop killing all of those innocent pigs now.

""Asgore wants to destroy all humanity" suddenly becomes understandable when you add the details "to save Monsters from Humanity's cruelty." and all the history and context behind it."

I'm with Asgore pre-Chara:It'll only lead to another war.

"And of course that the message of Undertale is that it's wrong to kill under any circumstances, that one should find another way."

Not necessarily. What did Asriel tell us at the end? Not everything can be solved by just being nice.

"As we see, most of the monsters are just normal people who have been taught all their lives that their lives suck and they've never felt the sun and everything's all crowded because of *humans* and they're doing their part to save everyone. Many of the monsters fight you specifically to achieve their dreams or in the hopes their lives will get better."

Oh, monster propaganda, eh? Wonder who's been spreading it?

"Others fight to be recognized as GREAT heroes.

But once you assure them to them that humans are all right they lose the will to fight."

The Pacifist Route in of itself is peaceful, I'll give you that. It's the events that happen afterward where things go awry.

"A better example of the classic henchperson is Undyne she's 100% commited to the cause and 100% sure YOU. ARE. THE VILLAIN."

Of course she is. Even though THEY attacked ME first. And in Genocide, she even thinks I'm going to destroy humanity as well! Undyne, I think you got the wrong person. Chara hates humans, I (in my Genocide Frisk persona) hate MONSTERS!

"She's a member of what is the Underground's military, (fortunately they stayed stuck in the midevil era. Imagine Frisk fighting an armed monster! But then again innate magic attacks are superior to weapons in a way, so why would they need to advance? ) in a role analogous to Top General."

The Royal Guard IS armed! Metal plates and all!

"She is the "Big Bad"'s right hand woman! The Kammy Koopa!  She is the drill sergent, the one who -yells at- trains all the other Royal Guards.

Her true theme "NGAHHH!" has revolutionary war drums, her encounter (once she stops all that "calm" shtick) is in a sense a declaration of war!"

You want war? I'll GIVE you war, Undyne! NGAAH!!!

"Her battle theme is "Spear of *Justice* "! She's 100% convinced she's the hero of this story and nothing can change that, she enlisted to protect everything and everyone she loves, she is unsparable under normal circumstances."

Kind of like us in Genocide, don't you think? Just replace every time she says "human" with "monster" and vice-versa. And rather than being trapped underground, we were brutally attacked by monsters. Frankly, the war had a reason, it was to stop monsters from absorbing human SOULs and destroying humanity.

"STILL! We find a way! Leading her out of her natural environment she falls to the heat, and unless you are heartless, you'll pour some cool water on her face, she gets up, stares for a moment, and decides to leave us alone. Even when we're feet away from her love interest's lab."

..That or if I think the idea of healing the enemy and letting her continue to chase after me is bad strategy, because until I DO pour water, I have no idea she'll just leave. Remember, you're supposed to play the game blind.

"And soon, with help from another Monster friend's invitation and clever use of reverse psycology(as well as her own moral principles on how to treat house guests such as not gutting them like...a fish... spear fishing for humans...Toby you sly...dog..), and some bonding time, she takes a shine to us and sees we're not that bad after all."

Of course we're not!

"Even when she assumes this won't work out and tries to have a final stand with us she sees we cannot hurt her and finds, she cannot hurt us either..."

So it worked! We found a way!

"Thee is always another, diplomatic way, to put aside our differences and touch base with our.. well not humanity but...sapientness?"

Okay, give me the solution to the problem of a single rogue monster absorbing a human SOUL, and using that immense power to gather more SOULs, and eventually destroy all of mankind! My solution is the Barrier.

"What's different about killing them is you are only causing more pain in the end. And well, genocide is just.. purposely finding Monsters and killing them until there's nothing left. It's not even self defense."

Unless I'm vanquishing the darkness, to defend the humans that would fall after me! :3 (You'll have to do more than that to shatter the hero RPG mentality.. We grind for enemies in ANY game!) Besides, I need to do that to grind for the final boss!!

"No, they were not, didn't you agree with this? Chara was not always like this."

Not Chara, this "RPG demon" you were talking about. Clearly Chara wasn't an RPG archetype in their early life. But they WERE like this since the beginning of the game. My Chara has no relation to RPGs at all, yours does. And an RPG-like character WOULD have to have ALWAYS been a demon, or never be one at all.

"Of course it does, especially plot wise. Due to their lack of soul after dying and being revived by our DT field, there's no moral compass to stop the kid from thinkin' "hey this killin' thing's kinda fun! Slash! Hack! Bish!" Just like with Flowey."

Flowey tried to be good at first. You CAN have a moral compass. What corrupted Flowey was abuse of the SAVE ability. He's actually more like the PLAYER than Chara. There wasn't some guiding force corrupting Flowey at all. Yet, you argue that Frisk, a HUMAN, which Chara DISTRUSTS, can corrupt Chara from a good human into becoming a genocidal maniac in less than a day?

"And it doesn't help that they're a kid and easily influenced. And of course, again, you essentially teach them Asriel was wrong for choosing Mercy even when under attack back when they were trying to save everyone."

Chara's belief was ALREADY that Asriel was wrong. Chara tried to kill the humans, Asriel resisted. In my take, this betrayal lead to Chara hating monsters too, fueling their desire for monster genocide. Alas, this is no reason to go out looking for monsters to kill, or to go killing humans too, now that Chara suddenly likes humans because reasons! (Deus Ex Machina)

..Yeah, you might be getting an idea as to why I consider the take of this Corruption to be absolutely ridiculous.

"There’s an interesting clue to the narrator and their state of mind when you check the bag of dog food in the lab.

You see, unlike the dummy and tree, it’s affected by kill count, not LOVE.

If you kill no one… https://66.media.tumblr.com/9a4abb7da4db10449004a722fcab610e/tumblr_inline_o3knzytZ7k1th1axb_540.png

Pacifist route text. You haven’t killed anyone at this point; the narrator is optimistic (”glass-full”). They’re having a good time on this path. They’re hopeful."

Dog food! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!

.You can't use dog food. Therefore, calling it half-full denotes nothing. Monsters perhaps can use it, and if this is the case, it might in fact be the reverse, seeing that monsters having less food supply means they're closer to dying out.

"But if you kill Doggo, and your kill count is 21+…. https://66.media.tumblr.com/37b57282f8c9b4f46c0548fd32ff59ab/tumblr_inline_o3ko5jCMS21th1axb_540.png

The dog bag becomes funny. This is directly affected by killing Doggo and killing more than 20 people. The narrator doesn’t find his death funny before 20 kills. Something has changed in them."

Actually, since it's "you remembered something funny", I don't believe this is the narrator thinking it's funny, but rather Frisk themselves. WE think it's funny, because WE killed them. The Mad Dummy has different flavor text on HOW you punch the dummy, depending on your LV. So no, the narrator did not change:Frisk did.

"In addition to that, Chara becomes unrecognizable to Asgore in the Bippity Boppity Bad Path. Whereas before he was reminded of Chara when he saw Frisk…"

Because Chara was good in life. Not AFTER their death. They're a fallen angel, not an eternal demon.

"Because in this run, Chara has changed. They were so unlike this during their lifetime that Asgore no longer even recognizes the murderous creature before him as human, much less resembling his child."

No, Frisk has changed. Frisk reminds Asgore of Chara, because they acted similarly to Chara did in life. If Frisk acts completely different, Asgore will not recognize them as such, and as in LV20, Chara has near full control, their demonic form starting to come out, Frisk isn't recognized as a human.

"Basically, you turned them into another Flowey (except one who’s in Frisk’s head) who really does laugh at misfortune, even though it isn’t Flowey’s true nature, and it’s not Chara’s, either, or they’d always find the bag funny if all the dogs were dead."

As I said, it's FRISK who finds it funny now that the dogs are dead:Not Chara.

"The Chara who’s doing the Dusty Dance here is about as much like the “original” Chara as the Flowey we meet is like Asriel. Flowey took a long time to get there on his own; he didn’t have a “guide”."

Yes, Chara has changed. But this is because of Asriel's betrayal, not because of anything Frisk did.

Although when Frisk comes along…

https://66.media.tumblr.com/284c72130946e06721a7b722aab76e85/tumblr_inline_o3kocwSa9p1th1axb_540.png

Even soulless people can learn. https://66.media.tumblr.com/4a0f155871241de9d7268adb6513a32a/tumblr_inline_o3kodsET4e1th1axb_540.png

…one direction or another.

In the first quote, Flowey wondered that on his own. This happens after you defeat Omega Flowey, even on a No Mercy route (not to be confused with a Genocide Route-In a No Mercy Route, you just don't spare or run away from anyone-You don't actively grind for monsters until the area is cleared). The second happens if you still kill someone afterwards, and was likely a sarcastic remark, since there was no real change in perspective, he thought it was kill or be killed even BEFORE Frisk came along.

"This is what you’re doing. You either prove to Chara that you don’t have to kill (which seems to help them, going by the “half-full” statement and general spirit of the narrator at those times) or you teach them that killing is not just fine, but they HAVE to kill. Like Flowey, they seem highly suggestible, and they are looking to YOU for direction."

[At first, I was so confused. Why was I brought back to life? You. With your guidance. I realized the purpose of my reincarnation. Power.]

Your interpretation is like this:

[With your guidance, I realized the purpose of my reincarnation. Power.] (note the comma instead of the period!!)

The correct interpretation is this:

[At first, I was so confused. Why was I brought back to life? You. With your guidance. | I realized the purpose of my reincarnation. Power. ] (vertical bar separating two completely different topics. Chara moved onto something else here.)

"And like Flowey, if you show Chara any sign that this “kill or be killed” rule isn’t absolute, even after killing dozens of people, they hesitate. If you fail to kill everyone you possibly can in an area, no matter what it is or how much LOVE you’ve gotten, Chara will not kill Asriel. You’ll be bumped back on the neutral route."

You failed the Genocide Route, there's no point to this anymore. Unless EVERYONE is killed, the mission is failed. "Comedian got away:Failure."

"I mean, it’s not like they can’t move your body for you at that point, but even so, they drop everything to see what you do next and don’t even try to “possess” you for the duration of the run."

Actually, they REALLY can't. They don't take control of you at all until LV19. What, walking past Papyrus' puzzles? That's like Frisk hitting the Mad Dummy-This is a CUTSCENE!! You might say that the same can be argued about Sans, but there's something special about that-The kill count doesn't go up after killing Sans. Because WE didn't kill Sans-Chara did. This signifies the point that Chara can take control.

"If you teach Chara that Asriel’s way of thinking was wrong - for sparing lives and getting them both killed in the process - and to kill with no exceptions, they go on to kill him. https://66.media.tumblr.com/a8116baa18638813343c1389ebeec992/tumblr_inline_o2z0m9wIXM1th1axb_540.png

If they kill Asriel, it’s all over. Nothing you can do brings them back from this. They will immediately go on to destroy the world, because “there is nothing left for us here.” "

Which is a complete lie:Maybe with our newfound power we can break into Alphys' secret hideout.

"That’s what the Pacifist route is about, by contrast.

If the narrator is optimistic upon seeing the “half-full” bag only when you haven’t killed anyone…then they don’t want you to kill anyone. They want to believe that Asriel was just trying to do the right

thing."

..Um, why? Seriously, why would they want to believe getting the both of them killed was a GOOD thing, when this was their plan to free all of monsterkind, and destroy the "cruel" race of humanity?

"Because if you don’t kill anyone, then Asriel’s “never kill, no matter what” actions are validated, and he didn’t betray Chara by sparing the humans."

All those times though, it's against monsters. In this case, it's against humans. And seeing how Chara cared about monsters and hated humans, that is a VERY clear difference. Sparing all the monsters isn't going to prove to a monster-lover, human-hater that you should also always spare all the humans.

"You’re doing the narrator a favor, making them happy, optimistic, by being a pacifist. You teach bothChara and Asriel that he was right all along."

You DO teach Asriel this, but not Chara. And remember, Asriel went on to kill monsters too, because he wanted to see what happened, and eventually started treating everything like a game.

"And this seems to make them both happier and more at peace, despite being soulless. They are able to let go of their regret and move on."

Give me evidence of this for Chara:There is no narration to support this point of view.

"A soulless person has limitations, but not inevitabilities. They can show concern for others and retain a portion of their past identity. https://66.media.tumblr.com/98de1cd9564f3d94a02919ff7c13c8e5/tumblr_inline_o12vaz4JNe1th1axb_540.png "

Yes, they can. That doesn't mean they will. Chara turning SOULless is only the part that tipped things over the edge, Asriel's betrayal lead to hatred, and from the SOULlessness, it tipped over and became hatred for the entire monster race.

"Flowey cares about Frisk’s future at the end of their journey, and Chara fights alongside Frisk during their journey."

They never made a single attack until Sans. All they do is give you guides on the statistics of the monsters, telling you how many kills you've done, how many monsters are left.. And a few stuff about what the monsters are currently doing.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"Yeah since Chara's been questioning themself after the whole plan thing, they quickly cope with the knowledge that Asriel was wrong seeing as this kid right here, Friskybits, first thing they do, is kill people without hearing their pleas or thinking about their circumstances."

Because they're a HUMAN. Just like the humans who killed Asriel at the first chance they got.

"By (after becoming numb to the shock and losing all humanity and becoming sadistic after a room's worth of people are killed as seen by the dog bag text) helping out this new buddy with this new plan, their mission, learning from us that "the mission" is more important than any lives and as to cope with their new ideal of Asriel betraying them, they make us their new BFF."

Not quite a BFF. You'll see why later on...

"It’s like I said before. On the Pacifist run, you teach them that what Asriel did had merit. Frisk survives, makes friends, and helps get the ”best” ending, all without fighting back, even when attacked."

Once again, against MONSTERS. Not HUMANS.

"But if you’re riding on the Asshole Avenue, you do the pretty much worst thing possible. You teach Chara that Asriel was wrong to not kill, that the “mission” is worth more than anyone’s lives. Which means he betrayed them. Their most trusted person… "

This is the conclusion I believe they reached at the very beginning. Except for the whole mission thing, that was developed AFTER the hatred of monsters, not before. Unless you meant the "mission" to eradicate humanity, in which case, Asriel actually got the two of them KILLED by going against the plan, so...

"Hey, does this sound familiar?"

''“I don’t know why I ever acted like you were the same person. (pause) Maybe…the truth is…Chara wasn’t really the greatest person, while, Frisk…you’re the type of friend I wish I always had. So maybe I was kind of projecting a little bit”.  Asriel wishes he could have always been friends with someone like ''Frisk, so he projects the persona of someone he was always friends with - Chara - on to them. If you take the Highway to Hell, this happens in reverse."

So.. They project Frisk onto Asriel? That doesn't make sense, they still kill Asriel.

"Remember that locket? The one that says “Best Friends Forever”?

Yeah, I remember that locket. ​​​​​ "There are two presents in this room, indicating one is meant for the other. The one on Chara’s side of the room is a worn dagger, useful, according to them, for gardening (and excited-about-watersausages, constantly-drawing-golden-flowers Chara seems to like plants). The one on Asriel’s side of the room is a single heart-shaped locket."

Yep.

"It’s possible there were matching lockets, but if that’s the case, the one Frisk picks up is likely Asriel’s; Chara would have been buried in theirs, and it explains why he’s not “really” wearing it when Frisk has it. It’s also possible given that it’s called “The Locket” that there is only one, also possibly indicated by there only being one in the present box."

"Heart Locket" has different stats than "The Locket". So maybe there are two lockets after all. Stat talk aside, there only being one in the box is NOT an indicator that there is only one, when you yourself said the other one would be buried with Chara. The former IS such an indicator, though.

"Regardless, the locket in the box seems to be Asriel’s. This locket belongs to Chara’s best friend.

Which, in this run, is Frisk. https://66.media.tumblr.com/2436b717be9755b1b32dea71dacce53b/tumblr_inline_o1j57aoBY51th1axb_540.png "

It was neither Chara or the player who fell on these flowers, but Frisk. “You”, as Frisk, are still the one walking around."

I consider Frisk and the player the same, but yes, it's Frisk.

"So when Frisk equips the Locket…

https://66.media.tumblr.com/0966c8d88a94ce8e9bf8432d1918dfb7/tumblr_inline_o1iv1nQI2X1th1axb_540.png

The locket is right where it belongs."

Yes, Frisk is their NEW friend. Frisk isn't being projected onto Asriel, Frisk merely REPLACED Asriel. There's a difference.

"Forever."

You know, right after Chara says that you're a great partner, they take away your ability to S/L/R, and leaves you in the void, not intending to keep their promise of moving onto the next world. So much for being partners, am I right? This was all an elaborate hoax, a scam. And this is what I meant by us not being quite BFFs.

"You, the player, who objectively know Asriel was right outside of the game, inflict that great pain of betrayal on them and manipulate them into thinking you are the better partner by comparison."

Um, HOW do I know that Asriel was right? What if I really DID think that the world is kill or be killed? Also, once again, killing the monsters is not the same as killing the humans. It could simply be that I hate monsters and want to protect humanity from them. You know, like those humans who attacked Asriel. Why doesn't Chara consider the possibility that we're just one of them?

"That Asriel wasn’t their best friend, but you are."

Yeah, Chara, you got the sides wrong. Monsters aren't the good guys, the humans are. ..Chara, why'd you just destroy all the humans too?

"Chara doesn’t hate or even want to take over Frisk in this route. Far from it."

They CAN'T. They need at least LV19 to take over.

"In pacifist, Frisk can get subjected to numerous bouts of impatience from the narrator (who seems to get weary and annoyed with repeated checks especially) but for the most part it seems like they’re trying to humor the kid."

With jokes just as bad as Sans'. What if I'm a Papyrus and not a Sans?

"Sometimes they turn repeated checks into little jokes, like the “Snow Poff” conversation, or this one if you keep turning the sink on/off: https://66.media.tumblr.com/1dcaaf876d71720e57cd01c6e0ddcd77/tumblr_inline_o2fzztL4dW1th1axb_540.png "

Those are snarky/sarcastic remarks. Also like Sans.

"But in this route they’re angry and impatient. The underlying fury of being “betrayed”, the potential for moral depravity that comes with being soulless having been met to its utmost, colors their every interaction with every being, including their new partner.

They snap at them upon checking the presents in Snowdin… https://66.media.tumblr.com/b89de5e54d8a7fdbab5058cf8b389158/tumblr_inline_o3koqg7N0b1th1axb_540.png

won’t offer up the “snowdecahedron” joke… https://66.media.tumblr.com/09fe1668b7eee0daebb093a002692113/tumblr_inline_o2g0u5OzX41th1axb_540.png

and offer very quick checks for a lot items. https://66.media.tumblr.com/717142d45308ae993adcd009b9b1e706/tumblr_inline_o3korxg32H1th1axb_540.png

The overall tone in this route is “What are you doing? Let’s go.” "

Yeah, you have some EXP to grind. It's too bad Frisk can't just steal the presents:They steal a lot of other stuff (from shops).

"But, even so, there are seldom occasions in which they actually remove control from Frisk McChecksalot (actually, the player)."

This is more true than even you think.

"They make an initial mistake in their narration (lmao) but they’re still suggesting battle plans for you, so you are actually the one fighting this fight, not Chara…mostly.

At the very end, that last strike is not from your input. After your attack is dodged, they quickly make a second - the first time they attack on their own. https://66.media.tumblr.com/728de28b6212cb21cd5a7a52cec2d462/tumblr_inline_o2qfcn7xjT1th1axb_540.png

and their first kill. Since LOVE hasn’t increased before their strike and is still 19, this proves they could have fought without your input but allowed you to be in control for this fight as well, even including the “Spare” option. You were still “guiding” them."

They know Sans wouldn't spare you. Also, perhaps only you could have thought of the clever strategy of moving the box to attack Sans on his own turn, and you needed to get Chara into the right situation for them to make the final strike.

"After this, they then quickly march on to the garden, and kill the two people waiting there. Not because they don’t trust you to (after everything, I’m sure they’re fully expecting you to) but because, I think, they felt they should be the one to do it."

This is probably true. In fact, there is no MERCY button at all in Asgore's "fight", so even if we had control, we wouldn't be able to spare him-Just kill him.

"This route ends with their kill count technically at three, but as they feel they’re in partnership with Frisk and therefor an accessory to all the murders, they both share the LOVE and EXP for all kills. "

..Um, WHAT? Um, no. Frisk's kill count doesn't go up from Sans. Frisk's LOVE does, but that's because of their massive participation in the fight. Chara did three kills, Frisk did all the rest, and there is no sharing of kills.

"Then…"

Chara shows up!

"They go on a spiel about the nature of stats, give thanks, praise, etc. Emphasis is placed on your actions being done willingly and their partnership. Here’s where things get interesting."

Indeed, they worked together to do this.

"They give this option. This can be seen similar to a “fight” or “mercy” button, for the world this time. Obviously, they’ve been conditioned to expect you to choose “fight”, or “erase”."

This is a new step, though. Until now, we've only been killing monsters. Perhaps this is why when we choose no, they don't think we're going against our nature, and don't comment on this at all, instead just asking when WE were in control.

"Interestingly, they can erase the world themselves, but still provide an option dialogue for this. It’s as I said; they’re not interested in taking over. They believe they’re following your guidance (or what they think is Frisk’s, rather, but you are controlling Frisk) and a person can’t be guided if they take over all the time."

They want to see what you think first. But also, if you choose yes, their plan to take your SOUL afterwards is that much more likely to succeed, since it relies on getting you to think that YOU are responsible for the world's destruction.

"The option dialogues are a courtesy. Chara could’ve taken over at any time, but allowed you to do what you would - to guide them, one way or another, because they woke up confused and didn’t trust themselves after the failure of the plan. That’s what they meant."

Why did they blame themselves and not Asriel?

"You have led them on to believe this is what you were after all along. If you choose “erase”:

They’re like “right, exactly as I thought. You’re great, we’ll be together forever” and they’re practically making heart eyes. or whatever the hell those are "

https://66.media.tumblr.com/92458625ab0abcba811b544d3ea12fe2/tumblr_inline_o2g43jdwiH1th1axb_540.png"

And then they put you in a void and refuse to ACTUALLY take you to the next to do more killing. Why?

"As well as assuming this plan is to gain more of this "makes you feel not guilty anymore "LOVE" stuff. " Who's stats do we see? "CHARA LV 1" Who's LOVE do we raise? "CHARA LV 20" Chara and Frisk share bodies, what affects Frisk, affects Chara."

No, this is because the SAVE originally belonged to Chara, and because we named Chara. Chara is bound to us, but their stats are not depending on Frisk's stats.

"In the end of course, we did it for no reason at all other than fun, and Chara, probably due to being raised right by Goatmom and their past as well as feeling betrayed after being convinced Asriel betrayed them due to what we taught them, only for us to betray them by either coming back to the game or choosing "Do not", decides to duel out some punishment for us believing we can do whatever we want without concequences."

Um, what? No, we DID do it for power! Come on, Chara, I want that next world!

"Choosing no…

They get a little flustered, if not dismayed. I mean, they just killed their family not five minutes ago for you - including their best friend, who they thought betrayed them, who they replaced with you… who just betrayed them.

You were not after some lofty goal like destroying the world, you were killing because it was fun, because the world is your playground, when Chara assumed you were on some kind of mission. An appropriate amount of pissiness ensues."

No, I wanted not to destroy the world, but to defend it. Monsters and humans are opposing sides, and I, as a human, naturally fought the human side.

"Regardless of your choice, they strike down the world… https://66.media.tumblr.com/31c768069be10a813c02774c101a4576/tumblr_inline_o2g5303K3a1th1axb_540.png

…not Frisk; this is erasure of world, visualized; the window of Undertale shakes, and we know what Frisk getting attacked and killed looks like."

Yes, this is in fact the WORLD getting destroyed. The game only closes for the same reason why it did when Flowey crashed the game-Chara also took away S/L/R from us, ensuring that we can't just LOAD to bring the world back. (Fun fact:Chara recreates the world by using a "True" Reset.)

"If you wait on the screen for several minutes, making your intention to go back clear, and retroactively making it obvious you did the run for fun, not a “purpose”, they chew you out. https://66.media.tumblr.com/9b73042587dca5ff85970d8a60025f5d/tumblr_inline_o2g5nixmX61th1axb_540.png "

I'd wait either way, I'm trapped in the void. I'm looking for YOU, Chara. I want you to take me to the next world!

"After venting their annoyance at you (and confirming this route’s actions were mostly on you), they suggest a compromise. https://66.media.tumblr.com/bbc941f1430e3fdaa850ef4c16ff757b/tumblr_inline_o2g614hd6o1th1axb_540.png

This confirms that, throughout the route, Frisk still had their soul. Otherwise, it couldn’t be used as a bargaining chip here. https://66.media.tumblr.com/67a06f670e4c2eab7d0bcee8c5280ecb/tumblr_inline_o2g6a9HALx1th1axb_540.png"

Correct. And taking that SOUL was their plan.

"You’ve never had your soul taken more politely. They asked for permission. They even double-checked to make sure. They give you want you want in return."

LOL this is ridiculous! If you say no, they say that you have to stay there for all eternity! That's right, stay in the void for all eternity! No next world for you, no nothing! You're pretty much FORCED to give it away!

"Except, it’s not your soul. Chara thinks they’re talking to Frisk when they ask for “your” soul (they think they’ve been talking to Frisk this whole time) and it is Frisk’s soul that they take."

Oh no, it IS our SOUL, because we ARE Frisk.

"congrats. you just sold an 8~ year old’s soul. asshole."

Nah, Frisk did that themselves.

"I believe they’re trying to hold you accountable. https://66.media.tumblr.com/734d0a56174e53d13e14d24e48ab0027/tumblr_inline_o2g6ufzpsH1th1axb_540.png

It’s right after this statement that they suggest the “compromise”. If you kill everyone for fun, reset, and try to live happily after with them, they can now shut it down. "

LOL, they kill everyone else. They could have ended it just by killing FRISK, not literally everyone else and ruining their own friends' life! No, this was Chara's plan from the BEGINNING! They wanted to be able to breach the barrier, and brutally kill the humans there.. Their plan is, and always was, to eradicate humanity. The addition here is that now they hate monsters, and are evil and sadistic now. This is the REAL reason why they don't take you to the next world, they hate humans and monsters in their world, but having never been to other worlds, they have no reason to hate them. (Yeah, my POV has changed a bit:Chara's an anti-villain.)

"They don’t really interfere in theneutral endings. You led them to their point of no return - killing Asriel - and they make sure you can’t return from it, either.

But if you bring back the world and don’t try to get a happy ending, they chew you out anyway.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/6ae405dfbc0860aca46c8b5704a7c78c/tumblr_inline_o2g7gdFU911th1axb_540.png

“Kinkshamed again!”

- you, probably"

Your perverted sentimentality is to keep on bringing the world back to destroy it once again. If you want it destroyed, just KEEP IT DESTROYED! Saying "no" to destroying the world gives us dialogue saying that "this is the feeling I spoke of.".

"And they are so weirded out that they feel an obligation to tell you to do, literally, anything else. https://66.media.tumblr.com/a274cff253c439c9412de4037af9f6f0/tumblr_inline_o2g7q5nY0m1th1axb_540.png "

So that they can fulfill their revenge on humanity, of course!!

"Some people have suggested this is to “kill humanity themselves” but. come on. LOVE is just yourwillingness to hurt. That shit cuts through monsters like a hot knife through butter, but out in the real world they’re just an angry baby with a gardening tool, humanity could fend them off with a wet mop."

They have the power to literally destroy the world, I'm pretty sure they'd do well against humans. They're not a human themselves anymore, if they were, they couldn't take your SOUL-Humans cannot absorb other human SOULs. No, they're something else entirely-A demon. The angel of death from the prophecy.

"On top of that, the destruction of humanity is literally only one soul away. ​​​​​​​ Asgore would have taken Frisk’s soul and wiped them out, and by killing the children up close and personal, he’s proven he has the mettle to do it. If Chara wanted humanity destroyed, they need only give Asgore Frisk’s soul. They could even inhabit the now completely soulless, determination-infused body like Flowey does if they chose. They do not ever go this route."

But they don't want JUST humanity dead anymore, they want EVERYONE dead!

"Plus, it’s a pointless act when they can already destroy the world, and Chara’s whole reason for being pissed at you is for killing when you didn’t really have a point, then dodging responsibility for it."

They wanted humanity to suffer through it. To meet a suffering end. Remember, they're sadistic like that.

"Functionally, you paid for the game so you have to be able to play it, but that doesn’t stop this pissed-off 12~ year old from appointing themself your final, unkillable judge if you choose to murder everyone just for funsies and then act like you can get away with it."

"You think you are above consequences."-Chara

Um, I am. *brings everyone back to life.* See?

"That’s why they’re here in this route. Chara is Undertale’s very last stand in a long, long effort to try to make you responsible for what you do here." (which you can overrun by being a dirty hacker, sadly no metaphorical in universe mechanic Toby cooks up can fix that.... You really are a monster aren't cha?) "

I don't consider hacking like that as canon. And what's all the stuff before then?