Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31981697-20170722123329/@comment-32182236-20171102001522

Alright then, so we're not using the trailer-Glad we agree on that point.

And THAT is actually a much better argument against everything being canon than the previous one, as this time, you're not assuming anything, just using in-game evidence-So, if I resolve it, it's merely because you missed a possibility, not due to bad logic on your part.

Twilight's definition is indeed like you said, so that part of the argument is sound-There is indeed a difference between the sky we see and what is described in Asgore's battle-And we can't just say that's not canon in TP, because the message does indeed appear in TP, just before Toriel interrupts the fight.

Now, here is where some theorists might come and say the whole game was a dream, because of Frisk waking up from a horrible nightmare after the Asriel battle, but first, the others did mention the flower, and second, that outlandish claim actually STILL doesn't resolve the paradox unless we go with the time frozen part, because of how much you can stall the final depature-But time being frozen in the Surface relative to the Underground is nonsense, considering that if the Surface timeline was frozen relative to the Underground, the humans would have never fell underground, as they would be frozen on the Surface, which contradicts the canon fact that seven humans, plus OURSELVES, fell underground. If we say Frisk's presence is the reason why time froze... Why Frisk specifically, and why did it unfreeze before they reached the Surface? Do they have to be conscious for time to freeze? If this IS the case, sleeping at the Snowed Inn should count, and move the Sun's position.

There is the possibility that the time you FELL was dictated by when you left, sort of like how Chara's name was retroactively dictated by what you name them, but:

1-How would that work?

2-That TOO is paradoxical-Specifically because of the light that shines on the garden of flowers-If we stall just enough time for us to have HAD to have fallen at night, the light wouldn't be there, because it's supposed to be night-So we're just shifting the problem here, not eliminating it.

So, what's actually going on? Well, there IS indeed something being altered retroactively here, but it's not when you fell... It's when you woke up after Asriel's fight. We're never told how long we were asleep for, so we could have been asleep for any amount of time, and woken up at any time of the day-It just has to NOT be night when you get to Asriel.