Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190617222636/@comment-32182236-20190719122644

That works for me. A legend spread to discourage people from visiting the mountain.

Not quite.

I'm saying that some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. Fact became legend. Legend became myth.

...And why didn't it remain fact forever? Because it very well could have been apocryphal, based on everything that people from, say, 5 generations in know. The Mages' words weren't preserved, after all. So there came a point where there were just people SAYING that if one fell, they couldn't return. With no evidence. So it sounds like a legend made up to keep people from visiting the mountain. Even though it isn't, and it actually came from the Mages themselves, who KNEW this fact, as it's a property of the Barrier that they made.

'''Although, there are a few odd things I'd like to talk about. The Waterfall Glyph writers once said there were no entrances or exits to this place, so a human would never arrive. So originally there was no way to fall into the Underground, until later in time when an Earthquake perhaps opened the walls.'''

Or, there was no found entrances or exits. Though it is odd for a monster to say this:Didn't they go through an entrance to get underground in the first place?

Also, the Barrier has a weird loophole in it, that a creature with a powerful SOUL can freely leave. Which the monsters exploit when Asriel uses Chara's SOUL to return to the surface.

How is that a loophole? A powerful-enough SOUL can resist the effects of the Barrier, and break through it with sheer/brute force. Just like if someone were to give it enough force, they could walk forward through wind pushing them in the opposite direction.

Why would the 7 mages (left-handed like you say, there was something definitely odd about them)

So was the primal human. As I said, I think it comes from the FIGHT button being on the left.

put in a loophole like that?

They didn't-See my explanation above.

And how could Asriel and Chara know that combining their SOULs together would allow them to exploit this loophole, that, if Chara was The First Human Who Arrived, the monsters could never have tested before?

"A monster with a human SOUL... A horrible beast with unfathomable power."-Waterfall Glyph

...Yeah, that's probably enough power to break through a barrier. (Break though, not destroy.)

Perhaps other humans did arrive, and die in the Underground, before King Asgore's human-hunting decree? Leading to the monsters gaining this knowledge?

Then why didn't they get the same treatment as Chara? I think the monsters got this knowledge from Gaster himself. Or from Chara, who was literally right there! We know that Asriel knows about the legends about nobody returning (talk to him back at the Ruins after his battle-You'll have to talk more than once), so we know Chara told him that. So Chara knew of the legends. They could have studied it, found it out, and told Asriel about it. The monsters got the unfathomable power part from Kanashi.

The game hints at a lot of history. Most of which we don't yet know.

Which is why we're trying to piece it together.

And the Waterfall Glyphs were written long ago. The claim that monsters have never taken a human SOUL before might be outdated.

They said monsters didn't take a human SOUL during the war. They DID take a human SOUL before the war. How do we know this? Because Kanashi.

What was an absolute claim by the monsters is that humans have never absorbed a monster SOUL.

---

The only reason Future Tech hasn't taken over yet is that monsters like Alphys are still studying Gaster's inventions and learning from them. A process that takes time.

If this claim is true... Then that means the theory that Gaster was forgotten is ALSO true. If he wasn't forgotten, why don't monsters ALREADY use Gaster's tech? Shouldn't they have been using his tech even before his fall? And since nothing special happened AT his fall, they'd keep using it. ...Yet they're not. What happened?

-

Despite behing behind the Barrier, the monsters were still afraid of human attacks.

Of course. There was clearly an entrance:The one the monsters went through to reach the Underground in the first place. (The Barrier was made after the monsters surrendered:I believe the Barrier was the surrender condition.)

The passage in Toriel's house comes before the one in the Librarby, because of the second reference to how bad Asgore is at picking names.

...I'd just cite the fact that it literally says "Part 1". The library says "Part 4". Part 2 and 3 are noticeably missing. The first passage is actually talking about the founding of THE RUINS. The monsters began by where Asgore's Castle now is, then found the new home named, "HOME". Which is the name of Toriels' house.

Actually, "HOME" is the name of the city. See the city in the background in the room where you can get the Toy Knife?

The second passage talks about how the monsters left Home/The Ruins, because they were no longer afraid of human attacks, and how they traveled through the Underground (it's all in order from the cold to the swamps to Hotland) back to "New Home", where Asgore's city currently is.

I do find it strange that they mention all the hardship and places they had to travel through the second time, rather than the first. This I why I believed that "the end of the caverns" simply means the end of the cavers.. And Snowdin, for example, doesn't count.

Why were the puzzles in the Ruins made the way they were? If the humans were expected to come the New Home route, they're completely pointless. But if they came from the Ruins route, they make perfect sense.

So for some reason, the monsters were afraid of human attacks even behind the Barrier at first, then lost that fear and returned to where they had started.

Perhaps when well over a century passed, and there was not one human attack. Or Gaster discovered that if a human fell, they couldn't come back out-They're not strong enough to cross the barrier.

So when the monsters originally were sealed in the Underground, it was through a doorway that links to Asgore's Castle.

...With the Deltarune symbol on it.

The monsters built this. Because they intended on getting out. (The only time they'd ever need to use it.) But we don't know WHEN they built it.

So why were the monsters still afraid of human attacks even behind the Barrier?

Because all they knew was a powerful SOUL was needed to get out. Papyrus thinks that Frisk's SOUL is strong enough to cross the Barrier on its own. In fact, that's what we're lead to believe until Alphys reveals the truth.

And why did they stop being afraid, and return to where they had come from?

Because they discovered that was an incorrect assumption. After all, nobody came in centuries. It can't be Chara, because when Chara fell, the monsters already moved.