Thread:BlackfootFerret/@comment-32182236-20190319173036/@comment-32182236-20190402185502

Alright.

For one, there's no one playing judge right now. Period. Every statement I made was a statement of the prosecution, and you should treat it as such. You too, jury, if you're reading this. I don't think either of us can claim the judge, and I don't know anyone who's qualified enough to be the judge. Fortunately, such a judge wasn't even needed so far, because none of us raised any objections (As in, the kind you'd actually see at trial:Irrelevant, asked and answered, priveliged, immaterial, narrative, etc). (The fact that we don't have any witnesses means things are a lot simpler than your typical trial) There's a reason why I asked you to try using those arguments in court, and then argued further in the case that you actually succeeded:I can't just "sustain" an objection I just made-That'd be biased. If you have any good candidates for a judge, we can check them out and see if they're actually qualified. But as of right now, I know of no one. So the jury can take it however they will.

There WILL be a jury, though, as it appears as though some things, we won't be able to agree on, and this case doesn't look like one that will settle on its own, unless either you present evidence I wasn't aware of, I finally point out the flaws in your case in a way you can understand, or you properly defend them. We'll do what courts actually do:Just pick out candidates to be the jury, and then give them the instructions necessary to carry out the verdict! But as members of the jury can't actually be a part of the trial, we'll start looking for them once we actually reach a standstill.

Anyways, back to our half-trial, half-discussion at this point.

King Asgore didn't name the Kingdom. He named Home and New Home, the cities in the Ruins and the Underground. To my knowledge, we've never gotten a name for the Kingdom.

I see you've already forgotten about Gerson!

Here's what he says when you ask him about that emblem..

"Eh? You don't know what that is? What are they teaching you kids in school nowadays...? Wa ha ha! That's the Delta Rune, the emblem of our kingdom. The Kingdom... Of Monsters. Wahaha! Great name, huh? It's as I always say... Ol' King Fluffybuns can't name for beans!"-Gerson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwW_t2gCv7k?t=40

Clear evidence that yes, Asgore DID name the Kingdom of Monsters! At least according to Gerson's testimony.

How could The Prophecy be made before written history, when written history records when the Barrier was cast, and the Prophecy is about the one who's een the surface that will lead everyone out of the Underground and/or kill everyone so the Underground goes vacant?

That's precisely why I brought up Deltarune (also known as: "the only alternate world we know of that also contains the Delta Rune prophecy"). Clearly, it isn't specifically talking about the Underground. Otherwise, the monsters must have KNOWN about the war that would banish them underground.. BEFORE they were banished in the first place! But the angel still exists, and Ralsei, another Boss Monster, is still a savior. The prophecy that predicted three heroes, ended up having Ralsei as one of them.

As you pointed out, the statue had to have been made before the monsters were even banished underground in the first place. It very well could have been made before written history, and the puzzle was made after the fact by the monsters. The statue being of Kanashi or something trivial simply doesn't make sense, especially considering that if nobody remembers the statue, and Gerson and Asgore were both around before the war, that means the monsters couldn't have been the ones making the statue-They weren't even underground yet. If the statue is indeed of Kanashi, that rules out the humans as well, since they wouldn't have made a statue to honor the same monster that the humans thought was evil.

It's a mystery just who built the statue in the first place. Perhaps figuring that out can give us new insight as to what it actually represents, though I still say that it represents the generic "savior". (We're already pretty far away from the simple but wrong solution-That it's Asriel.)

If you like, you can make your case for why, as an incredibly improbable story, "Murder on the Orient Express" should be condemned as a respected work of literature simply because you think mysteries should have simple solutions. See how far you get with that.

There's a difference between something being unlikely, and something being a literal deus ex machina. Your case is the latter. It's not simply unlikely, the notion is simply implausible! Now, if you would explain exactly how this "miracle" is even plausible, I'd reconsider. But you simply relied on it just miraculously happening just because of a hug leaving to a "love miracle", despite there being no evidence of such an occurrence being possible throughout the game. Ferret, this is Undertale, not My Little Pony.

I actually.. don't have the book you speak of. But to my knowledge, everyone on that train has already been shown to have been connected to the case FAR before the revelation came that they all did it, while the idea of a random stranger doing it isn't complete, and there was no evidence supporting this.

Murder on the Orient Express' twist ending, I argue, is far more plausible than yours, for the simple reason that what seems improbable but supported by evidence, is far more plausible than a literal deus ex machina. Though perhaps an actual analysis on the book will help clarify things.

Do the waterfall Glyphs really say that no human soul was EVER absorbed by a monster?

No, and I never said it did. You got my statement backwards. The glyphs say that no monster SOUL was ever absorbed by a human. With that made clear, perhaps the rest of my argument, where I say even if the unlikely mutation WAS plausible, it STILL wouldn't work based on the evidence, makes more sense to you.

Papyrus has an incredibly detailed vocabulary for a fool. I'm still wondering how much of it is an act. A lot, I think.

Probably so. But, how is this relevant to your case?

How do you mean The Yellow SOUL related to the blueprints? The only blueprints I recall were the ones Alphys found in the True Lab and used to make the Determation Extraction machine.

I'm talking about the exact same blueprints YOU presented that involved turning a human SOUL upside-down! Did you forget your own arguments?

As to where I got the idea that humans and monsters fates were intertwined? That's the theme of Undertale right from the introduction sequence. Every we time we die Asgore reminds us that "You are the future of humans and monsters." Humans are judged by how they interact with the monsters, and vice versa.

The introduction sequence merely states that two races ruled over the earth, war broke out, monsters are underground, and those who go to Ebott never return. It really only establishes that there are two dominant races, not that they are intertwined. As for being the future of humans and monsters, Chara's name was spoken, so this was a memory of when Asgore said this to Chara in Tape 5. Chara brought in a new hope, almost certainly leading the monsters to believe that peace between the two races really is possible. This is what Asgore was more than likely referring to. The evidence really only supports them being intertwined in the same way that the United States and Russia were back when they were the two global superpowers.