Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-25672219-20170405004515/@comment-27701762-20170406014343

The herobriner wrote: second, monsters dont actually remember between the resets, they have a feeling that they SHOULD remember somthing, but they dont actually retain any memories. for example, Toriel for example says "''When humans fall down here, strangely... I... I often feel like I already know them. Truthfully, when I first saw you, I felt... ... like I was seeing an old friend for the first time." ''she doesn't  LITERALLY remember, she just has a feeling that she should remember you. if monsters actually remembered through RESETs, even a little, then almost everyone would have some kind of memory lapses due to the hundreds, if not THOUSANDS of resets Flowey did. but instead, Papyrus cant even remember his name. You say they don't remember, yet you specifically quote a line where Toriel all but says she is having deja vu, which is all but saying explicitly that she actually remembers meeting Frisk and the other humans, and you pass over the line where she accurately guesses Frisk's preference of butterscotch or cinnamon (i.e. she recalls what they said before). Meanwhile, your claim that the monsters should have "memory lapses" from the various resets that Flowey performed is mere assertion. You provide no reason why that claim should be accepted.

That the monsters don't have literal memories that they can access and recall accurately in the way you or I recall memories, or the way that Flowey recalls resets, does not mean that the monsters don't remember anything. The monsters A) appear to have a fuzzier grasp on those memories in the first place, and B) appear to assume that they are just random daydreams or illusions with no significance. It's not the feeling they should remember. They do remember, but in a less clear and vivid manner.

Third, i dont recall saying that there where few humans left on the surface... and i seriously doubt that is true due to seeing a functioning city near the mountain upon achiveing the true pacafist ending. but, i should mention that a human wouldn't be able to prevent any sort of cataclismic event, since Flowey was in control of the timeline before Frisk fell. The claim "there must be only a few humans left" is not a statement by you. It is a necessary implication of the theory: if only one human has control of the timeline, then the probability just in terms of sheer numbers is tiny for it to fall on Frisk or any of the other humans precisely when they fall in the Underground, much less the fact that it falls and is retained by children and not adults. Since the power is built on determination, your theory is saying that seven children were the most determined beings in the entire world for whatever period of time they had control of the timeline. The amount of slack to make this theory work is teetering on the absurd.

Not only that, but the fact that the power not only shifts, but is held by Flowey at one point in time, rather than any actual human, and that Flowey loses the power because a human fell in and suddenly gained more determination, and was never able to muster more determination than the new human until they got additional souls. So the fact that Flowey has more determination than all of humanity further suggests that there is a major problem with the overall claim.

but i suppose i should probably mention the theory for the player, then. at the end of the true pacafist run, if you go to True Reset, then Flowey talks to you for awhile, and addresses you as Chara (or whatever you chose as the fallen child's name.) if this was true, then that would mean that we are 'Chara', right? well, the genocide run proves otherwise. at the end of the genocide run, Chara talks to you as a seperate entity. this proves that we are NOT Chara. so if we aren't Frisk and we aren't Chara, then who are we? we are 'the player'. WE first gain the ability to RESET the moment we first play the game, at the moment Frisk wakes up in the underground. whenever WE reset, it goes back to the first moment we had acces to the ability. Whether the player is Chara, Frisk, a separate entity, or whatever you want, still poses the same basic problem: the power to control the timeline is handed over not to another human, or to Flowey, but to a spirit (or whatever the player is relative to the world of Undertale).

In fact, shifting the power to reset from Frisk to the player or Chara creates even more problems, since Flowey says the one who holds the power to perform the reset is Chara, while you are saying it is the player, and of course Chara actually does have the power to reset at least at some point, since they are able to destroy the world and bring it back into existence. There was a problem when Frisk had control, but by taking control out of Frisk's hands you've only made the problem worse, not better.