Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31536324-20190117214835/@comment-27136653-20190207192043

Would rigidness in style and moral standards sound/work better?

More adequate synonyms to integrity: wisdom, morality, honor.

''I always took the traits being applicable to all of the situations you outlined. Hence why it's your trait.''

Broadening the spectrum like this can lead to issues however. You'd be forced to abolish absolute definitions in favor of more vague ones. When I did that, the only system that ended up fitting the traits was the chakra system, which is as vague as you can ever get.

''Kindness is one I use the dictionary definition for, if fits, and like I've said, it does give leeway to be used for more...violent pass times. Kindness can be twisted in a sadistic sense.''

In my opinion, it relates to defense. Doesn't matter what kind, just that it protects you. This comfortably explains every instance of green we stumble upon in the game.

''Isn't Undyne's whole thing doing what she does for the good and betterment of Monsters? Wanting them to be set free because it's what they all want and hope for. Sounds like kindness to me, even if she herself is violent.''

Perspective matters. "For the greater good" isn't usually a kind philosophy. Glitchtale is a good example. Betty is following this philosophy, but you wouldn't describe her as being kind, would you?

Given that the kids are dead, I think it's safe to say that they didn't have REFUSE.

Or that they had, but the conditions weren't right for them to be able to use it. Maybe hope ties to this. Frisk was hopeful about convincing Asriel to stop fighting (or maybe Chara had something to do with it). The other kids however, not so much.

''My stance is that while all humans do have DT, enough to get SAVE when in the Underground if the other SOULS are anything to go by, only those with Red SOULS can REFUSE and even then when they reach the threshold to do so. I wouldn't say Bravery, Justice, Kindness, Patience, or Integrity are some things that can spur you to literally refuse death itself. Perseverance is similar, but again, not really something that would spur you to do that in the situation the Frisk was in with Asriel.''

Since determination is a property of all souls, we need not assume that it's because of the trait. In fact, we can discard it completely, it's irrelevant. Unless you believe that determination isn't actually as high for the other human souls. Which I must disagree with, because I believe that determination is soul power, which, once again, isn't something you can really disprove, since we'd be stuck arguing about semantics.

''It's the only canon fit we have, and aren't you the one that uses the "no contradiction present" thing for his own argument? Isn't that a bit self contradictory?''

When I construct my theories, yes. Anything goes for me. However, you must agree, such theory doesn't have much substance to it. But that applies to yours too. The arguments aren't strong enough to make either one of us able to disprove each other. You're taking the occam's razor here, I'm taking it elsewhere. It's a matter of head canons and interpretation of the unclear parts of the game.

''I never go with Frisk being a "chosen one", at most it's just a case of them having the right qualities at that time. Chara doesn't latch onto the other six kids after all.''

Giving them extra powers over the other 6 kids feels wrong to me. It goes to imply all sorts of things about their character that really grind my gears. I just like saying that this isn't something that Toby would have resorted to. Even though I know very well that he also didn't resort to chakras. But this is more important.

''DT is what keeps the SOUL existing, it's strength so to speak (think in terms of how long something last). SP is the actual POWER of the SOUL itself, its...well...power (think in terms of the strength of a weightlifter or boxer when they lift or punch).''

What is SP the sum of then, according to you?

''Okay, I'm saying this now, only things that Toby himself has confirmed or stated in official material are to be used here. No trying to think like him, or get into his head, capiche?''

But how do you know what he meant then if you're not allowed to guess?

If I were still using that argument, I'd talk about redundancy and how pointless

Now we're arguing what Flowey would have said and what he wouldn't have. Once again, considering the build up, I would expect him to comment on it, to be shocked, disappointed, whatever. It's weird that he didn't, it almost as if Toby forgot to think this part through. We cannot assume that his game is perfect just because he said that everything is canon. That doesn't make the fact that there might be some mistakes hidden in it go away, it just disguises them.

''Can't it be both then? Both flags imply both views by your train of thought.''

Yes. Think of neutrons. They can be created by either combining a proton and an electron, or by removing a positron from a proton. Essentially, the whole equals nothing, 7 mod 7 is equal to 0.

Again, what do you mean by quantifiable?

Extractable, essentially.

''They don't dictate your personality or quirks. They're decided BY your personality and quirks.''

In that case, we're agreeing on their function. That they're a product, not a cause.

there WERE Human magicians after all, so they are capable of magic; they're just not as versatile as Monsters

''There's nothing that says that these are the only seven traits, and that there can't be more. These are just the main core seven.''

Both of those are subject to head canons.