Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-29788596-20160906011125/@comment-32182236-20200221183037

Then again, what are the aspects of humanity that could led Chara to want to destroy humanity as a whole? Its easy to understand why they would grow hating humanity for personal reasons, but i dont see any reason why they would want to destroy it. To kill every child and baby and people who havent done anything wrong yet.

And I don't see any personal reasons to hate humanity. The people you were around? Okay, that's fine, but I wouldn't call that "hating humanity".

Perhaps they're like the AI who see all the trees and animals getting destroyed, and deducing humans are the main threat to the earth. Who knows?

My working hypothesis is that it has something to do with the reason why the humans attack. As I've gone over, Chara set up the attack.. But that would require them to know that the humans would act irrationally and try to kill Asriel.

I think part of that is at least part of why they hated humanity. After all, it's a seemingly bad thing, that Chara knew was going to happen. As if Chara's seen that happen before.. And came to the conclusion that this is their nature.. Always going on to assume those that are not a part of them are merciless killers..

It just all fits together if we say that this attack was partly, well.. Chara trying to finally show the answer to the question Asriel wanted to know for all this time... I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that after the attack, if the humans did get killed, Chara was planning on saying "This.. This is why I hate them. This is what's wrong with them. Do you see it? This is what humanity is like."

But we really don't know the real reason. Corelation =/= causation

As I said, though, if Chara just didn't like the world getting destroyed, they would have, just... not destroyed it the second time and let Frisk continue on.

Surviving monsters? There are survivors in Genocide... Up until the world gets destroyed, that is.

The only fundamental difference between Genocide and Neutral is either:


 * 1) Genocide's the only route Frisk doesn't cross the Barrier (if you're right about Frisk crossing the Barrier)
 * 2) In Neutral, you have to restart, but not in Genocide (If you're wrong about Frisk crossing the Barrier)

In the first case, well... That's the only fundamental difference between Genocide and non-Genocide Routes, so that's the only reasonable reason as to why they'd ask you to take another path:Therefore, that likely was the reason:Therefore, they likely do want to cross the Barrier.

And if Frisk doesn't cross the Barrier in Neutral? Well, we find out that Frisk has to restart.. until they DO cross the Barrier.

T Then why did you mention this trope at all if theres no evidemces thats there?

There's also no evidence it isn't, and you made the absolute claim that Chara definitely never turns evil.

It's possible they did. It's possible they crossed the Event Horizon.

They all point to the same colclusion' thats the problem.

I start with every possibility, and then logically follow them to their conclusions. And it turns out no matter what you set the variables to:Frisk DID cross the Barrier, Frisk DIDN'T cross the Barrier, no matter what, we can show that they all lead to the same conclusion. Either find a flaw in my argument, or find an initial set of variables that I failed to take into account.

If logic is telling us that no matter what the variables are, the same conclusion arrives from it.. That tells us that well.. That conclusion is correct.

You refuse to akowledge any other possibilities as if it was confirmed that Chara destroy humanity in souless endings.

It's the only possibility:I've ruled out the rest.

We've determined that Chara really was trying to reach the Surface. And the only plausible reason for them to try and reach the Surface with the HUMANS is if they want to do something with or to the humans there.

And that "thing" can't be something good, considering that Chara hates humanity. Besides, Chara has no reason to take over if it was something good:If freeing the monsters was their plan, for example, they wouldn't take over in Soulless after the fact.

I didnt say that.

You did imply that them turning evil in Soulless isn't the thing you're arguing against, claiming my argument of them turning evil is invalid... Because Genocide already happened.

So, do they cross the Moral Event Horizon after Genocide? If not, why can't they be saved in a Soulless Pacifist.. Yet CAN be saved in a non-Soulless Pacifist, if the thing that saves them wasn't something that would happen after the destruction of the world in Soulless Pacifist?

The idea being that Chara would be redeemable after Genocide.. But that never happens because the world's destroyed before it would happen.

Evidences?

..Why do you think they asked for your SOUL in the first place?

If they could already take over without a SOUL, the SOUL would be useless.

Why even high lv cant let them to take over?

High LV only increases your stats, it doesn't magically give you the ability to possess someone. You need their SOUL for that.

What about the souless runs where they already posses Frisk's soul and thus can take over them?

Sure, they can take over, unless the Barrier is crossed, they can't destroy humanity.

And after the Barrier is crossed, well.. They're going to need some LV to gain the power to destroy the world, raise their stats and all.

Fortunately for them, there are six monsters full of free EXP! What a steal!

But they do. In genocide run, they make a creepy face to Flowey, unlock the chains by themselves " i unlocked the chains" and kill Flowey and Asgore and Sans.

Why can't the face be Frisk? We already have evidence that Frisk is turning evil in Genocide (makes sense, we're supposed to be Frisk, and we're being bad, so of course our character will be bad in cutscenes as well)

Also, as I said, possession is NOT how they killed Flowey, Asgore, and Sans! They use their OWN weapon, even if Frisk does not have it equipped! Even if the weapon is stored in a box so that Frisk literally cannot use it'!

Frisk's body was not used to kill these three monsters. Chara was starting to gain physicality, and used 'their own vessel against them. All Frisk had to do was move the box over, then Chara swiped once, missed, twice, hit, and down came Sans.

The...what??!!! Where do they go then when they deal the final strike to Sans? Why do they start the fight agaisnt Asgore while being in frisk body?

We see Chara take their own physical form at the end of the Genocide Route.

At that point, Chara became completely separated from Frisk.

It's my hypothesis that this was already beginning to happen during the Sans fight. And it is that same vessel, body, whatever, that Chara was in at the end of the Genocide Route that killed Sans. But the first smash was made by the player, the second one was out of out control, meaning that the first one was made by Frisk as they are our controlable character. You're digging to deep into this...

No such thing as too deep.

The first attack came by after we moved the box. Pressing X does play cutscenes, so it could have still been Chara. And it HAS to be Chara, because it couldn't have been Frisk, because this happens even in timelines where Frisk didn't have equipped the Real Knife.

And how could Chara makes a smash while they dont have any weapon that makes a smash?

Frisk doesn't have any weapon that makes a slash if the Real Knife and Toy Knife are both unequipped! Meaning Frisk couldn't have done it.

Chara could, meaning they do have such a weapon.

Anyway, that shows that Chara can get along with Frisk in some cirtances and thus they could get along with them if Frusk help them with "guidance", if they guide them.

Partner doesn't imply leader. In fact, the "partner" is more likely implying that we are a follower of Chara, rather than Chara being a follower of us.

Makes sense, they tell us not to proceed, and help us with Genocide, and we follow their directions.

We're not guiding Chara. Chara's guiding us. Why? So that we do what they want.

Also there's literally no evidences that Frisk is giving what Chara wants in genocide run.

Chara literally treats the Genocide Route as if it were a GOOD thing! They call us a GOOD partner for doing it and erasing the world, thank us, point out how they're the feeling we get when we gain stats (implying they WANTED us to increase the stats), and refer to the slain monsters as "the enemy".

Pretty sure the Genocide Route is what they wanted.

Besides, we already know Chara hated humanity. Yet they help Frisk do Genocide. Why? It can't be for Frisk, because Frisk is a human. So it must be for Chara! It's as simple as that! (This is also why they only encourage us to go on and stop us from aborting Genocide accidentially… But NOT do the same thing for Pacifist.)

I am once again asking you for evidences.

Asriel:Chara hated humanity.

Chara:Strongly felt X left. Shouldn't proceed yet.

That also works the other way arround. Chara's confusion and low self confidence is greater than their hate for Frisk.

Why isn't Chara then doing the complete OPPOSITE of what we're doing? They don't know what's right, but they do know they hate humanity.. So if humanity does this thing, then why not do the opposite? That'd certainly work better, right?

And Chara recognizes their family, right? Why not seek their guidance? Toriel says spare, Frisk kills. Who to listen to? The kind mother that cared for them, or the human that kills all of Chara's friends?

Chara:*derp eyes*I'm totally going to trust the human to show me the right path even though they're killing monsters who are responsible for killing both me and Asriel. Toriel? What did she ever do for me?

There's no evidences that Chara hates Frisk and only use them to achieve their goals.


 * Premise 1:Chara hates humanity.
 * Premise 2:Frisk is a human.
 * Conclusion:Therefore, Chara hates Frisk.

In this case, that doesnt makes sence for them to call them a "good partner" thank them for bringing them back from death and tell them that they'll still be together forever despite the fact that Frisk already killed everyone.

You're right, it doesn't... Unless the Frisk killing everyone is a good thing to Chara.

So one human child soul is enough for Chara to destroy 8 billions humans?

One SOUL to cross the Barrier, Chara's power to destroy the world above, thus wiping out all the humans there.

You have to get there to destroy it, though.

Which paradox?

The paradox YOU pointed out. How it doesn't make sense for Chara to help Frisk out in the Genocide Route, considering that they hated humanity.

But they were the one who planned to take 6 human souls in the viallge and bring their human body with them. It was them who put Asriel in danger.

Fully expecting Asriel to not do something "stupid" and just stand there not fighting back against the humans trying to kill them.

All Asriel had to do was to kill them.. Right?

Yes, we all know Chara was the one in the wrong. But that's not what Chara's perspective would tell us.

Yes another motivation like guidance?

Why would they go to a HUMAN for that? A human is literally the LAST kind of person they'd POSSIBLE go to. In fact, they might be better off doing literally the exact OPPOSITE we do!

But he did end up seeing killing as the right because of this. Seeing the world as "kill or be killed". Souless people are highly suggestible.

No, he saw killing as the right thing because not killing got him killed. Not because, say, Jerry told him "hey, killing's a good thing. Here, watch me!"

I'd also say LV is responsible for this as well, since he didn't reach that conclusion until AFTER he started killing just to see what happens.

The..what?

Frisk:This Genocide Run is going so great! Nice to have Chara as a partner!

Chara:Hey, there's still some monsters left. You really shouldn't proceed yet.

Frisk:Oh, it's fine. *proceeds* ..Oh, Monster Kid!

Chara:..Frisk, you just aborted the run.

Frisk:Wait.. I didn't mean to do it! It was an accident!

Chara:You "accidentially" proceeded when I made it VERY clear not to do that?

Frisk:No, I thought nothing bad would happen!

Chara:If nothing bad would have happened, I wouldn't have told you not to proceed yet!

You cant change facts to fit your narrative you know ?

Hopefully I've presented a good case to show that no, I didn't change the facts, these were the facts the entire time.

They always had this power since they know how to use it and knows that they have it.

As I've said before, they destroy the world by attacking it.

There's literally nothing special about the attack that destroyed the world. You attack the world, deal enough damage, and it's destroyed.

It's pretty easy to figure THAT out. You don't exactly need any practice runs with that one, when you've already just killed THREE people just before then with the exact same kind of attack.

So them just gaining the power after getting high enough stats would not cause any problems.

Nope.

Tell me, how do we reform them, then?

Frisk's soul still persists after death and thus Chara's essence. And in your narrative, they killed themselves to destroy humanity so i dont think they have any issues with this.

If they vanish prior to crossing the Barrier, then they can't execute their plan on destroying the world, and thus humanity as a whole.

I know its the dummy. The first part was about dummy and the second was adressesd directly to Frisk using "you". They are just using the context to make a rhyming poem for Frisk. Chara never uses "you" to describe monsters, "you" always refers to Frisk.

So you're suggesting Chara switched reference frames, without any indication that they did so?

Yes but its based on EVIDENCES, not facts just like the idea that Chara is actually reedemened (if they ever needed any redemption in the first place).

How is "It's me, Chara" NOT explicit?

You said that we need to explictly ses that Chara is reedemened but then every theory is wrong as none of them is explictly confirmed.

If Chara was redeemed while we were there, which you claim they did, we'd see it.

If they were redeemed while we weren't there, then it makes sense why we didn't.

Tell me, what would you do if I told you there was a fire-breathing dragon in my garage?

I did provide you evidences. I said that if they really wanted to destroy humanity they would give the last soul needed for this to Asgore by killing themselves.

How do we know Asgore would do it? We're only told that Asgore would destroy humanity in Sans' judgement hall, and by that point, we've already also figured out that Asgore's declaration was just a fit of rage.

So there's really no point in time where we, or them, would be certain that Asgore would really do it. Sure, Chara could try sharing Asgore's body, but we already know what happened with Asriel.

Why not go with a plan that's SURE to succeed?

I said that they make cute poems for Frisk and helps Frisk in every run and gives them descptions for everything they check despite their impatience. All of this shows that Chara is fond of Frisk for some reason.

I've debunked the idea the poem was necessarily for Frisk, and presented an alternative hypothesis, it was for the DUMMY. And the descriptions are useful in Genocide too.

It's rather strange that when they give us useful information, it's useful in Genocide, but there are cases when it's not useful in Pacifist, and ONLY in Genocide.

<span class=Eye for eye =/= justice. Chara's vision of justice =/= justice.

Still, under Chara's version of justice, we're doing the right thing, therefore, they have no reason to do this to us.

And we do have consequences for our actions. Take the neutral endings for example. We dont receive any happy ending even if we killed a monster in self defence. Blame Toby fox for this, not me.

I'm asking why Chara doesn't like the fact that we're giving the MONSTERS consequences for THIER actions!

And literally kill all citizens who havent done anything to them?

Ever hear of hate groups?

Regardless anything. Chara isnt the type of person who kills out of feelings. After all, they yell at Frisk for killing everyone again because of their "perverted sentimentality".

How many times do I have to tell you?

"Let us once again send the world into the abyss."

->NO

"No? Hmm... This feeling you have. This is what I spoke of."

It's refusing to destroy the world. Or, perhaps, refusing to keep it destroyed.

When we say no, Chara tells us THAT's the feeling they spoke of. Saying yes just leads to Chara destroying it again, and calling us a great partner-They still consider YES as the right option.

Maybe but it wasnt the point. I said that its a really cliche, lazy motive for a vilain as its overdone in fiction.

It doesn't matter how "cliché" it is, it's still just as possible. If it's realistic, there's no good reason to object to this hypothesis. "It's cliché" is not a good argument. Ever. Unrealistic? Yes, that's a good argument, which is why I agree that a pure evil "for the evluz" Chara is not how Chara is like. But "cliché"? No. If it's realistic, it's still valid unless other evidence contradicts it. (In fact, one could argue that cliches are MORE likely, considering that a cliché is literally something done a lot. So it might just make it MORE likely that this is the truth. But I'm not going to take that into consideration in my analysis, as I keep things to the world of Undertale itself, rather than using things outside it.)

But that doesnt mean Frisk WOULD reset, especially if they already did the souless pacifist run.

..I was explaining why they CAN, as you asked why Chara "allows" them to do it.

Tell me when did i say that Frisk does not cross the barrier in neutral runs?

You didn't. Yet you did claim they don't go free.

All they do is asking Frisk to take whatever path they want, not necerally the one that can led to Frisks freedom and theres no way for Chara to know the game story and endings.

You're implying here that Frisk only goes free in Pacifist. I'm wondering just what your definition of "freedom" is, if you think they didn't go free, but DID cross the Barrier.

I instead argued that they do but even then, nothing suggests that anything wrong happened on the surface. Why would Toby not hint anything if anything happened?

That's argument from silence. Just because there aren't any statements about it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

We already see evidence of it happening in Pacifist, and we don't get to the Surface at all in Neutral.

What's more likely? Things didn't change? Or things changed, without any good reason for them to change?

Unless it did not happen? I argued that they dont even kill Frisks friends and let them live their lives despite not knowing that they're going to reset.

Thus making Chara's crossing out of the monsters completely and utterly pointless.

Well its behind Frisk but Frisk cant cross it and reach the monster side of the room for some reason

Really? Show me! And wait, Frisk can't cross it to go back underground?

Then I guess it's not the Barrier! If it were, Frisk would be able to cross it to reach the monster side... But not be able to cross back.

..but its clearly shown that Frisk is on the other side of the barrier when they defeat flowey, this same side they reach when the barrier is destroyed in pacifist end.

Asriel's battle happens in the same place it was earlier. We were already in that room when we fought Asriel. We didn't cross it at that point. Therefore, when the Barrier broke, the Barrier was ahead of us. So it's either in the room of the Asriel battle, or beyond the door.

Considering that we don't see a barrier in that room, it must be beyond the door.

In other words, theres no way for frisk to reach this side unless they crossed the barrier.

They're on the monster side:The Barrier is past the door.

And the player (who roleplays as Frisk) somehow receive the message.

Yes. If they didn't cross the Barrier, it makes sense. If they did, there's no way for them to get the message. Maybe they bonked on the Barrier and fell down the stairs?

I'd say that they were busy and thus their friends left a vocal messsage that Frisk checked latter on. Otherwise, i dont see how that would work. We never see Frisk dropping their phone in the underground, we never even asked them to and Frisk honnestly has no reason to do this especially if they care about their friends.

Maybe they fell down the stairs?

"And what happened after the phone call? We really have no idea. And since we don't know what Frisk was doing (definitely not answering the phone, but that's all we know), for all we know, Soulless Chara IS killing monsters. (They do in Pacifist, and as you point out, it'd make no sense for them to do it in Pacifist and not Neutral.)"

Of course, they do so in souless pacifist end but not in neutral endings, which doesnt makes sence if Chara is really killing them out if hatred otherwise they would kill them in all runs. Its karma.

I'm literally arguing that they ARE doing it in soulless neutral endings! This could be the reason why Frisk didn't answer the phone! If Chara's out killing them, then they wouldn't be answering the phone! And it takes time to reach the monsters, so we wouldn't see it happen!

In other words, what we see is exactly what we'd expect if Chara was going to kill them. So you really can't say they're not. Combine that with the fact that it makes no sense for them to do it in one and not the other, and it's pretty likely they do it in both.

The...what? Didnt they ininiate the fight agaisnt Asgore in genocide end? And does that means frisks friends really inniate a fight in souless pacufist end?

Okay, you've proven a point.. In the second sentence. Nice paradox.

In that case, perhaps they waited until the monsters are, say.. not all right there in the same place at the same time? It's easier to kill a monster when there aren't five other monsters ready to attack back the moment you make your move. He's a shopkeeper.

Perhaps that's the reason. We don't really know.

But we do see them. But we never see Frisk (i mean, not possesed frisk) in souless pacifist credits. So its POSSIBLE that they been replaced, explaining why Chara posed for the photo with Frisk's friends.

We DO see Frisk in the ending prior to the credits, however.

And if that was the idea, then no need for the X'd out friends. Chara replacing Frisk would be enough.

I dont think that this little "attachment" is enough to stop Chara from killing Frisk's friends for ""greater good"". Similarly to Flowey who cared about Papyrus and the player.

Like I said, Flowey stopped caring once we became, essentially, his toys.

He got bored, and decided to try new things. Completely different than killing monsters just because Frisk did something wrong.

I used to hate people in my life and while i wished bad things to them, i never tried to kill them.

Of course, you know murder's a crime, and wouldn't commit such a crime!

Chara? Not so much.

Or you live appart of them.

Considering how Chara wanted to free the monsters to be on the Surface, with the humans, this can't be what their plan was. However, this "living apart from them" might be the reason why they climbed the mountain in the first place.

I didnt say that they care, just that hating someone doesnt mean you want to kill them.

They kill the monsters like it's nothing, though.

My question here to your version of Chara is this:Why kill monsters that you love, but not humans that you hate?

W hy would they? They are killing frisks friends not because they hate them but because Frisk no longer deserves their happy ending.

1/2 of the time, we pick "I have places to go", which essentially means we're not living with the monsters any longer. And that's when we get that X'd photo. Chara would kill off the monsters that we left.. And not the humans we decided we wanted to go back to?

We have to go through a lot to get this ending. We have to spare everyone, befried everyone etc..And genocide Frisk literally killed 100 monsters thinking that they are above consequences, led the world to its destruction and accted like its not their fault.

Go on, destroy the Underground again, Chara.

..Really. The Underground is the only world that Frisk could have possibly "lead" to destruction. (And I still don't think they even did THAT.) Frisk did literally zero damage to the Surface. ..Maybe that's why you think they only kill the monsters?

And if they didn't want us to escape such consequences, and would rather us not try and keep them around, then why do they ask us to try?

Why do they ask us to take another path, that is, attempt to evade the consequences that they still think we're bound to, even after the SOUL deal that's supposed to be a "compromise"?

So i get it why Chara is pissed at Frisk and steal their happy ending. Its a way to show them that they're not above consequences. That you have to deserve your happy ending but that you didnt.

Yet they still let you recreate the world in the first place, even though that's evading consequences as well.

Youre jumping to conclusions too quickly. The world was already "pushed" to its destruction by Frisk.

How is killing a hundred monsters "pushing the world to its destruction"?

Its not like Chara do it because they genuiny wish everyones death but because these are consequences of Frisk's actions.

The consequences of Frisk's actions is that 100+ monsters are dead. That's it.

And when Frisk wants to recreate the world and avoid consequences, they prove that they think they are "above consequences".

If Frisk said yes to destroying the world, then asked for it back, the argument works. But this also happens when Frisk says NO to destroying the world, making the argument become incoherent.

It was you who pushed everything to its edge. It was you who led the world to its destruction. But you cannot accept it, you think you're above consequences

As I point out, it's likely that Chara is attempting to use psychological manipulation. Did you check out the pastebin link?

And then when Frisk proves that they indead think of themselves above consequences, then it's likely that Chara would try to show them that they're not above consequences, by (possibly) killing people Frisk cares the most in souless pacifist end.

All that shows us is that Chara seemingly turned evil. Apparently it didn't work at all.

Guess your plan failed AGAIN, Chara. Instead of being convinced not to kill, now you've just made yourself look like the enemy.

Wait a minute, isn't that something you've already experienced, Chara? Like when the humans thought Asriel killed you?

It's already been proven that humans blame what looks like the obvious killer for it all, and have done so through fallacious reasoning. Why does Chara think Frisk is an exception? Why didn't Chara EXPECT Frisk to then put the blame on Chara? Why, if Chara wasn't possessing Frisk, Frisk might just try to kill Chara for that!!

But these aren't all monsters but specifically the ones Frisk loves.

How does Chara know Frisk even loves them? What if Frisk doesn't love them, and only did the Pacifist Route because Chara told them to "take another path"? For all we know, Frisk might be like "MUAHAHA!! Yes, Chara!! Great job killing them.. Never cared for them anyway."

But just because they hate humans doesn't mean they would destroy them, especially that they have no powers allowing them to.

They will once they gain LV... from killing the monsters.

Or they didn't use it earlier in genocide run because they wanted power first and thus erase the world when there's "nothing left for us".

Yes, they wanted power first. Why would they want power if they already had it all?

It's clear they didn't have it all. And now they need it again.

It's weird that something that simply measures one cruelty would give so much powers. Does that mean every human having lv 20 has this power ?

No, because Frisk doesn't have that power at LV20.

Perhaps it's something special about... whatever species Chara is post-death. (Wight? Demon? Phantom?)

Besides lv only affects monsters because they are made of magic and as we know, "the crueller the intentions of their enemies are, the more their attacks will hurt us". It's specifically says that MONSTERS work like that, not humans.

We already know Chara gained power, though.

In this case, why didn't they do genocide run again by themselves to reach lv 20 and then kill Asgore to use his soul to reach the surface?

Flowey destroys the SOUL.

Why didn't they do it when they were alive? They could kill 100 monsters to reach lv 20 and then kill any of the dreemurs to take their soul and go on rampage agaisnt humanity? Oh yeah you'll mention character complexity here because here it'll benefits you.

No, I'll mention it here because this is PRIOR to their death, PRIOR to Asriel's "betrayal".

Remember, Chara went from loving Asriel as their best friend, to killing Asriel slash by slash to give a painful death.

Something happened. Something big.

Yes and..? That doesn't contradict the idea that Chara didn't have this power before. After all, they aren't even suprised having it and know how to use it.

Of course they know how to use it, they know how to attack! And that's all destroying the world is! An attack!

They just need enough power to deal enough damage!

I'm really convinced that's related to save power as its the only "magical" power frisk possess and plus is related to timeline manipulation.

It's. A. Slash!

It only means that Frisk can feel Chara growing "stronger" when they increase the stats.

That still means Chara's getting stronger. Which they'll need in order to destroy the world.

Now just because they grow emotionally distanced and gains more money doesn't mean that they'll get mary sue powers

We see them use it. We need to find out where they got it from. They state they gained power. LV gave them power.

So:


 * 1) Chara needs a certain power to destroy the world.
 * 2) Chara gained power from us
 * 3) We don't see any other kind of power that they "gained".
 * 4) They only destroy the world after we've maxed out out LV.

From this, the most likely explanation is that that the "certain power" they need is the same power they gain from LV.

Explain me how they could use it against the 6 humans? If they use it, the whole world would be destroyed.

Alright, let me say it one more time.

Chara destroys the world with a slash attack. The amount of damage dealt is well over 10^200.

Chara could use the exact same slash attack on the humans, if they had the ability. And 10^200 damage is certainly enough to kill said humans.

Individually or by destroying the world?

BOTH are possible. It's likely they do it by destroying the world, however, since while individually is possible, it'd take an absurdly long amount of time.

Because the surface is fine in soulless pacifist credits. Only Frisk's friends are possibly killed at the very end.

The world is destroyed AFTER that.

Then why didn't they do it before and why don't they force Frisk to return underground? Because this can be your only run and yet Chara doesn't force them to return underground.

Neutral is pretty much a dead run.

Chara needs EXP to destroy the world.

EXP comes from monsters.

Monsters are UNDERGROUND.

..Unless it might be possible to, say, kill a 2 year old and get EXP from that. ..Perhaps?

Killing Flowey doesn't even provides exp -_- and there's no monsters on the surface.

Killing Flowey only happens at the very end of the run. We wouldn't see the EXP even if it was worth EXP.

It's curiosity. This is the feeling who pushed to destroy the world again. If it's not why do they say this feeling is the reason why we continue to destroy the world?

Recreate was mentioned first. Recreate, destroy, recreate, destroy... Perhaps it's the cycle? But then, why do they say it's great if we destroy it again, and why does attempting to break the cycle by refusing this time have Chara say that the feeling they spoke of is the one we have right then?

This is also the feeling that push frisk to refuse Chara's offer despite the fact that's pointless to refuse it at this point. Which is why it's the same feeling.

If we refused it the first time, we already know what happens, and accepting it would be the curious thing to do. Yet, Chara still says it's this feeling when we refuse, and a good thing to accept.

I know, Frisk crosses the barrier at the end of neutral run. Yet there's no evidences that anything wrong happened. Not only that but there's no monsters there, so Chara wouldn't be able to gain lv (if we follow your hypothesis) and thus destroy humanity.

There's FLOWEY. Though it's certainly a lot harder to fight him at LV1 than LV19/20.

They recreate the underground

For Frisk's SOUL. And remember, they still need to cross the Barrier.

and i already said that's because they feel morally obligated to suggest you another path as otherwise, you'll keep recreating and destroying the world all over again.

Chara doesn't seem to have a problem with the destroying part, only the recreating part, as if you destroy it, they call you a good partner.

So...in this case, there's no reason for them to not one shot Asgore and take his soul and instead let Frisk fight him? I dunno, the "mercy" button appears at the end of his battle, meaning that Frisk can spare him and yet Chara doesn't interfer and let Frisk to spare him, preventing them to get the surface.

They can't one-shot Asgore unless it's a Genocide Run, just as we can't one-shot any other boss unless it's a Genocide Run.

We have to fight him. Also, Flowey destroys the SOUL, so one-shotting him would be useless. We need the Flowey bit. And sparing Asgore does not ruin the plan, he dies anyway, and the rest goes as usual.

Nice pun, Chara!

...How is that a pun?

and they're the one destroying the world if we pick the wrong path. Because we're the one who "pushed everything to it's edge".

Once again, how is killing monsters "pushing everything to its edge"?

But Frisk DOES cross it.

Then pick the argument I had that assumed they crossed it.

If Frisk reaches the surface, it isn't hinted that Chara killed anyone.

Yet my argument shows that this is the most likely possibility.

Wow, congrats you don't understand anything in nuances and Chara's complexity!

I don't get it. Are we a great partner, or someone who doesn't deserve good endings? I've spotted a contradiction.

Frisk's case is VEEERY different from other monsters. They are similar to Flowey. But even Flowey lacked the soul and was driven into this madness because of his tragic experiences and even he doesn't got a happy ending. So why Frisk should if they are worse than Flowey?

Chara's not the reason why Flowey didn't get a happy ending. And if Frisk was giving monsters "consequences", then no, they're not like Flowey.

So a vilain sadistically killing everyone because they "deserve to die" without explaining why isn't pure evil according to you?

There's no explanation for why they hated humanity in the first place, yet you don't see that as unreasonable. I see the two reasons as one and the same, by the way. And perhaps I gave a good hypothesis on what that reason might be.

That doesn't fit Chara. They actually consider humans as "bad".

We don't know. But we know they hated humanity. Which is pretty close already to considering humans as bad.