Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190617222636/@comment-32182236-20190722123031

In the Middle Ages, Asgore's monsters arrived in the Underground around the area where New Home would later be.

That is correct. Take a look at the war from the intro, and find out what era it was from that way.

But they were afraid of further human attacks, so they traveled as far away from this entry point as possible, to the opposite end of the caverns, and founded the then-capital of Home, in the area that is now The Ruins.

For some reason, though, they didn't go all the way to the end. And put puzzles on the other side. Why did they do this?

I'm still not sure whether they came from the start of the Ruins to the end of the Ruins, or whether they came from New home to the Ruins. There's evidence for both possibilities. Do you have an idea as to why the puzzles in the Ruins were made in the place they are? Because I see a problem both in the idea that they fell from the Ruins hole (what was the purpose of the door?), and in the idea that they fell in New Home (what was the purpose of the puzzles?)

The Ruins Door was one-way as a defensive measure, to protect against any human attacks that might follow the monsters, acting like a castle keep.

Of course. However, monsters still explored and partly inhabited the other areas of the Underground. Especially The Garbage Dump, which was their one resource for keeping track of the human world above, as well as learning from their technology.

...Their technology did not come from humans at the time. Gaster was around during this time. Not only that, but if they left the Ruins like that, don't they think they'd be in constant, immenent danger just by doing this? Why not put the door at the end of New Home's end if this was your goal?

While residing in the current capital of Home, Toriel used a camcorder to make a home movie of her and Asgore talking about having a child. A home movie that later turned up in the archives in New Home along with the others.

Yes. Toriel and Asgore brought it with them. It was their tape, after all.

When Asriel was born, the Dreemur Family still resided in Home/TheRuins. He was their only child at the time, so they made a single bed for him, which can still be seen to this day.

That is correct. Asriel's room. room_asriel.

...I wonder what the file name of this room in the demo was. If that file name was room_asriel as well, then the main story was already known around 3 years before the game's release!

The Dreemurs must have resided in Home in the early part of 201X, because Toriel has a calendar that dates to that time.

That is also correct.

I actually had a theory of my own as to this.

I imagined the expedition to be a gradual one. Where at one point, Asgore and his monsters were in New Home, and Toriel and Asriel stayed behind in the Ruins for a while, for Asriel to find Chara. Mainly because I couldn't think of a reason for Asriel to just wander off into the Ruins.

...And I still can't. But perhaps you'll have better luck? I'm not going to claim that the gradual move must be the case just because I can't think of another possibility. I'll give you a chance to find one as well.

When Gaster arrived, his technological prowess took the monster world by storm, and completely changed their defensive attitude regarding the humans. They no longer had to fear the humans.. the humans now had to fear them!

Perhaps that was the reason. The monsters can quite easily kill Frisk in the present, and out of six humans, six humans died at the hands of the monsters.

Completely different than what the war was like.

I had a take on this apparent inconsistency as well-I attributed the difference to the monsters' willingness to fight and the determination of the humans-As monsters defenses drop when they don't want to fight, and the more a human wants to hurt a monster, the more it will hurt.

But, Gerson was the Hammer of Justice! And even he didn't kill a human.. And I'm sure he did want to fight. If he didn't have such a resolve to fight... He wouldn't be the Hammer of Justice.

No longer fearing the humans, the monsters migrated out of Home, and made the journey to build the linked structures of The Core and New Home, right at the exit point to the Underground. You have to travel through The Core to get to New Home, and Gaster designed The Core. So Gaster was with the monsters during this trip.

...Just wait there. I spot a plot hole in your narrative.

So you say the monsters had to build the CORE, in order to get from Hotland to New Home.

But you also say that New Home is where the monsters began.

How did the monsters originally get from New Home to Hotland?

...I'm starting to go back to the belief that the monsters originated in the Ruins, and "the end of the caverns" meant the end of the Ruins. At some point in time, Gaster suffered a mishap in The Core, shattering him across time and space. Since the rest of the royal family was immortal, and The Royal Scientist is the only royal possition we know of other than The Royal Guard, the MTT Memorial Fountain was most likely made for Gaster, who was widely regarded as a hero at the time of his death.

Either that, or the Royal Guard. Or nobody at all, and it was a generic memorial fountain. When Chara fell, she landed in The Ruins, and was found by Asriel. The Dreemur family adopted Chara into the Royal Family, and gave her a bed in the Current Capital: New Home. Not Home. When Chara fell, New Home was the capital of the monsters. And there was no need to build her a bed in the old Ruins.

Exactly. Chara arrived in New Home at The End of 201X, by Asgore's calendar and Narrator Chara's own admission. It was only an hour's walk from The Ruins, so there was no need to build her a bed there, Asriel just took her to New Home.

We don't know the exact time it would take.. But yes, there was no need for a bed in the Ruins.

Since Chara fell in Winter 2019, and the doomed Buttercup Adventure required flowers that would only bloom in spring, Spring 2020 is the very earliest time Chara and Asriel could have died together. Which means the MTT Fountain, made in 201X, could not have been made for them.

I looked at the intro. The patch where the flowers would be is not visible at the time. Considering how big it is compared to Frisk, it should be visible if it existed when Chara fell. So we can't use the lack of flowers as evidence for what season it is.

But there was grass at the time, though very few. Not sure what that means.

After Chara and Asriel died, Asgore made his declaration that all humans who arrived in The Underground would be harvested for their souls. Asgore had no human souls stored at this time, as Toriel later berates him as a coward for not taking the first soul and using it himself to travel to the surface and harvest more.

At first, I believed that Toriel left after the first human was absorbed, because that meant Toriel now knew for a fact that Asgore wasn't going to use the first SOUL.

But Alphys' entry says that the golden flower from the surface world appeared just before the queen left. And that could have only came from Chasriel's death. So you're proven correct.

Asgore's declaration prompted Toriel to seperate from him, and return to The Ruins, where she locked The Ruins Door from outside access. Although she would still open the door and travel to visit Alphys at some point to get her phone upgraded, so she could text with Sans.

Though by the time we show up, it's still ancient. While residing at The Ruins, Toriel saw at least Six Humans (she never gives us the actual number) pass through and travel to the Underground. Toriel is aware of the fate of these humans, and that Asgore killed them, so Toriel is still getting information from The Underground. Most likely through her phone.

We do know it's exactly six. Because every human who comes meets the same fate. Being dead. And Asgore has six SOULs.