Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-29788596-20160906011125/@comment-33883848-20200130104842

"We really need to simply ask the question:Why did Chara hate humanity?"

Then tell me what aspects of it would led Chara to kill every human, every human child, baby?. I know many misanthropes but i never heard of a misanthrope wishing to kill every human. It's also implied that Chara hate humanity as whole and that can individually like them such as Frisk.

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'I just said we can't save Chara, because Chara has never been saved in any route. Sometimes, one can become too far gone. Really, we have to ask a simple question."

That basically means you think they are pure evil as EVERYONE can change as long as they have good left. This logic we call in tvtropes "Rousseau was right" arguing that if an individual was TURNED into a bad person by their experience then it's possible to change them to good. After all, humans are CULTURAL individuals influenced by their experiences.

And Undertale is the game where even FLOWEY can change and Chara isn't even nearly as bad as Flowey

And Chara is a child at this thus very suggestible. EVERY real life kid CAN CHANGE because its how psycology works.

Also who know you don't save Chara during Asriel battle because they are already saved? They helped a HUMAN after all, refusing to let monsters kill them and destroy humanity. They treat Frisk rather well in pacifist and neutral runs.

In other words, they dont need to be saved because they are already saved. They are already "reedemed".

"Just because corruption turned them evil doesn't mean its possible to turn them back. But perhaps there is a way. We really don't know. All we can say is after a single Genocide, nothing will stop Chara from killing everyone, making them impossible to save. This tells us that nothing in Pacifist can save Chara."

Flowey was EVEN worse yet he was still reedemable. Chara also only kills 6 people on the surface and thats because Frisk no longer deserve their happy ending. Yet they still let to true reset and try another run. They arent evil they arent good either. They are doing what they think is right in the souless pacifist end and that also doesnt mean that they wouldnt regret it.

'It's conceivable that a non-Tainted Pacifist Route has a timeline where Chara is saved, sometime after the ending of the route."

And what led you to believe that Chara isnt already reedemed in the game? Why would they be reedemed AFTER the end of the game? Whats the point of this ?

"If merely the Underground was destroyed in the first swipe, then the Soulless Pacifist could just be Chara preparing for the second, to destroy BOTH worlds, rather than just the one below. (In fact, I'd say Occam's Razor leans towards it.)"

No Occam Razor has nothing to do with this. Theres no evidences that both of the worlds are destroyed in the souless pacifist end. Everyone is even fine until the end of the game. If we assume that Chara destroy humans on the surface, we not only have to assume they always had unlterier motives but also that dying somehow gave them super mary sue powers allowing them to physically destroy all humans while they never show this kind of powers in the game and Flowey died too and it did not give him any special powers. Occam razor isnt on your side because your theory purely rely on speculation with no actual evidences. We have to assume too many things to consider this possibility. Not only that but we also have to ignore Charas own words when they say that they feel "obligated" to suggest you another run. We have to ignore the fact that Chara accuse us for destroying the world. We have to assume that Chara only destroys the underground. We have to ignore the fact that Chara let Frisk remain in contfol despite having their soul and despite the fact that Frisk simply not carry Chara "plan"..We have to assume that Chara destroy the surface on neutral endings despite the fact that theres no evidences of that. We have to ignore the fact that Chara doesnt kill monsters in souless neutral endings.

We have to make too much assumptions to consider this possibility so its not Occam Razor. Its quite the opposite.

"And if both worlds were destroyed in the first swipe, that's no longer an option. Meaning that there must be some other reason why Chara wanted a Pacifist Route.. While still killing off the monsters. Why Chara wanted to be on the Surface. With the humans. Meaning Chara has something planned with the humans."

And what led you to believe that Chara necessary have a master plan?? Wht cant you just rule with Chara says and accept that they simply "suggest" (not force you or order you) you to take another path because they feel "obligated" to? Because its pointless to kill everyone all over again? Its also never implied that Chara wanted to be on the surface and its not even implied that they know Frisk would suceesed at leaving the underground. And they only kill 6 monsters and all of them are Frisks friends (they dont even kill Flowey) meaning that it has to do something with punishment.

You're giving them too much ulteriour motives while they mostly have the "i dont care do whatever you want but accept consequences" attitude and assuming too many things about them.