Talk:Flowey/@comment-26858298-20170222211135/@comment-35549737-20170323221457

Okay then, Make3.0Shine.

Here's everything the game shows us about Asriel:

1. Asriel was born to Queen Toriel and King Asgore in the underground, after the war. (Which is showed from Tape 1 in the True Lab, in which Asgore states that Toriel seems very excited to have a child.)

2. When Chara fell, he found them and took them to his house. The two became fast friends. (The monsters tell you this in New Home.)

3. Chara decided to set monsterkind free by committing suicide so that Asriel could take their soul, go to the surface, and collect the human SOULs required to break the barrier. They did this by eating buttercups, which they found out weren't good to eat after Chara and Asriel gave Asgore food poisoning by making him a pie but accidentally using buttercups instead of butterscotch. (This is a mix of info from what the monsters tell you and from tapes in the True Lab.)

4. The eating of buttercups caused Chara to fall sick and die. Asriel took their soul, went to the surface. He refused to kill the humans and take their SOULs. Ultimately the humans wounded him fatally, but he had enough strength to return to the Underground before he died and collapsed into dust in the throne room (his body was also covered in Golden Flower seeds, which is how they got to the Underground). (This is also a mix of info.)

5. Many years later, Alphys was doing her experiment, trying to make monster SOULs exist after death. She decided to use a Golden Flower as a vessel (which happened to be covered in Asriel's dust), and ended up injecting it with determination. When the experiment didn't work, the flower was sent back to Asgore, and he replanted it. (Info from the True Lab.)

6. The combination of a flower, Asriel's dust/essence, and pure determination caused Asriel to come back to life, with the flower as his body. He did not just turn into a flower when he died. It happened over many years' time. (Genocide Route, actually.)

Now, since I think you need it, I will provide a bit of info about ghosts: Toby Fox stated that Undertale ghosts are not actually the spiritual embodiment of dead humans/monsters, but instead a special type of monster.

And because it seems there might be no other way to convince you, I’ll show you why I don’t really think that your proof works:

FIRST: Yes, we know Mettaton was there. We also know that everybody else (actually, everybody except for Napstablook) was there, just maybe not visible, as otherwise the check text ‘Legendary being powered by every SOUL in the Underground’ doesn’t make sense. Therefore, Asriel is Froggit. You remember seeing Froggit on the screen during the True Pacifist ending? See, the logic doesn’t work; just because a monster was present during the cutscene doesn’t mean that they are Asriel.

SECOND: Asriel might actually join a human fan club, that’s true. But Mettaton did dream of performing for humankind as far as I can tell. Why else would he start a human fan club? (Also: what does this prove anyway?)

THIRD: What Flowey said was “Or will you give up entirely on this world…and let ME inherit the power to control it?” Judging from the rest of what Flowey said, this means basically quitting the game and letting Flowey have the power to SAVE instead, because only the person in the Underground with the most determination can SAVE, and he knows this. (He also knows that you’re in a game, so don’t try and use anything against this.)

FOURTH: No. Just no. Mettaton Neo looks NOTHING like Final Form Asriel. The only similarity is the ‘wings’, and even those look nothing alike. Let me turn your logic back on you again: Final Form Asriel has wings. Whimsun has wings. Therefore Whimsun is Asriel. See? It just doesn't work. Plus, looking alike in some way doesn’t mean you’re related.

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Is that enough proof for you?

I also want to say something to Moonstone98. Flowey is not a machine with Asriel's memories; Flowey is a determined Golden Flower with Asriel's essence.