Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-33883848-20180710161247

"That's called a betrayal. When their names are yellow, their defense is at its lowest. So obviously they die like nothing at that moment. Also, have you tested this by fighting, or by acting? I think if you fight, they can start sparing you as well. So obviously, then you can one-hit them, as their HP is already that low."

I know what a betrayal kill.Also i stated over and over again that the Undertale manual says that def is something that "reduces the amount of hp you loss"(before getting this I also thought that the damages were due to their defence) Which means

1.That the damages the monstres get without reducing the amount of hp they loss(without def) are the "normal ones" 2.That their defence is something that reduces the hp they loss from Frisk's attack

Plus the Snowdin book says only says that what increase the damages dealt by their enemies is their enemies intentions not their own defense "If a monster doesn't want to fight its defence will weaken and the crueller the intentions of our enemies are the more their attacks will hurt us". Its literally says what counts during a fight, the enemies intentions. Their defence allows them to defend themselves of their enemies intentions. If they have a low defense then they lower defend themselves against their enemies intentions. Frisk has the desire to kill because their single attack can kill a monster without any defence"if a being with a powerful soul strike with the desire to kill... lets end the chapter here. "because this monster "didn't reduce the amount of hp they loss".

Even with a stick of 0 atk, Frisk can bring few damages and even kill at a single strike a monster who doesn't have any defence.Which also indicates that Frisk has intentions to hurt and even to kill. After all this stick shouldn't deal any damages since it only have 0 atk

So the low defence doesn't increase damages it only defend them lower(obviously)

"No. Frisk's desire to hurt is reflected by their LV, not by the monsters' will to fight."

Lv is something that increase the intentions to hurt and make them permanent. Which doesn't mean that a being can't have any intention to hurt without it.

In the genocide run, Frisk's hate is enough big (as Toriel says) to kill a monster with a rather good defence at a single strike even so at lv 3. But that only happen with the bosses in the genocide run not the random monsters. If love was the single way to have cruel intentions than Frisk could kill any monster with defence at a single strike with 3 lv because they can kill Toriel at a single strike in the genocide run.

"Both do. You're really not seeing this, are you? When you convince the monsters not to fight you, either by helping them, or by hurting them (idk which one was the case for you), that doesn't tell us anything about our intentions, it only tells us that THEIR defense has dropped"

Because you say so?? Because the Snowdin's book lie?? .

"Lol, you're a joke. First, you respond to a comment that wasn't even meant for you and then you ask why I'm saying the things I'm saying, lol. But okay, I'll spare you the mocking. Here you go, I had to dig this up from depths of this thread: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/373594290817073152/461269357713031189/Bez_nazvu.png

See the difference? Before, I wasn't really convinced that Frisk is that much of a pacifist at heart. There were some things that suggested so, and some that didn't, but this one was just too obvious of a hint for me."

Seriously?? A different stylistic choice for the "default option"(its where Frisk soul go any time a battle start) is your single proof? If you want to give any important significance to it then I must remind you that those options are under Chara's name and that the narrator is the one who provide you options as proven by the fact that they provide you the "save "options. So its related more to Chara than Frisk. Plus Fight button can be very useful in the pacifist run too, after all this button help us to spare the monsters

"As I said, it's probably both the player, as well as Frisk. Unless you want to completely ingore the part where they speak of "another world" and totally destroy this one by a single nonsensical slash."

Why did you ignored my points??? Even this line can be interpreted differently,maybe for Chara the "abyss"(something you can get when Undertale world is erased as Chara says in the second genocide run "let's send this world back to abyss") is their next world, that why both of you (not just you, after all they say that both will move to the next world not just the player) move on to this one.

"It kinda does though. There are so few hints in the pacifist route about Chara's presence, if it wasn't for the genocide route, I don't think many people would believe that Chara is the narrator at all. Assuming that many do right now. On the other hand, Frisk's presence is more noticeable in the pacifist fight, although a bit less subtle. It's the little things, such as them adding in funky text options for the date with Alphys, refusing to be mean to Snowdrake's mom, et cetera. This isn't just them being "nice", as opposed to the genocide route, where their overworld behavior is pretty skewed (e.g. not being careful while stepping on MK's shoulders). This is them outright disobeying OUR intentions (which doesn't really apply for the funky text as much as for the true lab shenanigans, but whatevs).

In short, the presences of both characters spike near the ends of the respective routes. Frisk's DT makes them invincible and they start disobeying us, while Chara starts speaking in viletext (as I like to call it) and even before that, moving Frisk on their own without our consent."

1.how it suppose to proove that Frisk represent "mercy "button and Chara "fight"button? 2.As I said fight button can be used to spare a monster, so to reach the pacifist end 3.Chara is optimistic when noone is killed 4.Nothing absolutely nothing implies that Chara control Frisk in any run besides the genocide run and its also really hypothetical to say that every bad action is Chara and every good one is Frisk 5.I gave examples that says that Frisk can disobey us whatever they want. The most noticeable example is when they disobey us to open Sans's book again and again "you decide to stop here". And that happens in neutral run too. And there's MANY other examples in the neutral run (talking with characters, reading,hiding behind a lamp etc...) 6.Snowrake's mother fight only suggests that the narrator wrongly describe what Frisk do under an option not that Frisk refuse to be rude. "You laugh and keep laughing its so funny you can't stop tears run down on your fa'Bold text'ce... Wait you didn't do that? " That likely mean that Frisk done something else than laughing and keep laughing until "tears ran down on their face", maybe just laughing "You say something like "you look horrible, why are you even alive? Wait you didn't say it? " That likely means that they said something else, not that they refused to be rude at all.

"No, you're just being a bit ignorant. All you were speaking of, I already knew, because it was the common knowledge. Half of your questions I already answered in this thread before. My replies were meant for TheHumanAmbassador, with whom I'm exploring the game from angles that are practically sterring back towards the starting point of 2015 UT theorizing. Hence why your questions might be so... ehm, obvious."

Sorry but it won't excuse the fact that you treated my deduction of "shit". That was a free insult

"Also, never said that Frisk isn't power hungry in the genocide. Also also, Flowey lost his marbles because he couldn't die. We didn't have that, we had the luxury of a choice. We and Flowey are very different"

You said that the message Frisk hold is the opposite of the Chara's one in the genocide run.Which is exactly the same thing. And if Frisk is powerhungry in the genocide why couldn't they represent us? Also Flowey could die whatever he want but he refused so "Curious I started to experiment, i killed myself over and over but as long as I was determined to live, i could come back". Also why did you ignore all the parallels beetwen Flowey and the player I pointed out? And what would make Chara closer to the player comparing to Flowey and Frisk in the genocide run?