Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31536324-20190117214835/@comment-33883848-20190219194756

"2. Lots of fiction deals with trying to change fate. In some stories, fate is changed. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking of X-Men: Future Past. Clearly you have no right to claim whether fate can be changed or not in this Undertale story."

Actually dt has little to do with "firmess of purpose"in Undertale,  that's related with the resolve to change fate. The only fate that humans in general(since every human is supposed to posses it)wants to change in Undertale is death, the natural fate and coincidentally that's the single fate you can change, thus it can allow them to actually change it as they persist after death because of it, If dt was more than the will to overcome death then that wouldn't allow human souls to persist after death. Combine this with the fact that the another definition of dt is "the will to keep living", then that make more sence if the fate Alphys is talking about is death as a single substance wouldn't have so much different functions:in one hand that's the will to keep living and on the other the resolve to change fate (in general). So that's really likely that both definitions are the same one exept worded differently. Plus I wonder why all humans would posses any resolve to change fate in general in undertale....

"4. Who said DT can't be extracted just because it's a personality trait? Why can't an emotion be hardened like ice and injected into another being?"

Because the only thing Alphys extracted from souls was dt, not any other portion of trait, which indicates that all traits can't be extracted. Plus, dt is the only """trait"""that allow souls to persist after death, not any single other trait is capable of that.dt is also something that make human souls so strong compared to monsters. So theres no reason for dt "trait"to be that special and different from all the other traits UNLESS its not a one, and just a power (plus that's only referred to as a power so far in the game)

"...Well Frisk's SOUL is red, so their trait is red. But I think that's not what you meant."

yeah and???

"Yes, DT can fluctuate. Yes, all beings (with a SOUL, more on that later) can have DT. But Frisk has LOTS of DT, so that's why their SOUL is the red DT trait. Simple."

All fallen humans possessed lots of dt as they had save load reset power as confirmed by Toriel even though their soul wasn't red and Frisk LACKED of lot determination on the surface as they had no save file on the surface, so dt is not something that would qualify them at all

"Again, which definition of fate are we using?"

This definition:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny

"Do you not have the ability to extrapolate? What he meant is that DT is LIKE playing a hard level over and over to get the best score."

That's actually perseverance, not dt

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"Flowey cannot feel love, compassion nor hope. And if you try to say "Flowey can feel things like fear and heartless glee" Those are negative emotions. No proof that Flowey, or any other SOULless beings for that matter, can feel neutral emotions like DT."

Well, he can feel joy as when he tortures you etc.... And still like to likely play etc.... so why wouldnt he feel dt

"Also the point of 'demon that comes when people call its name' is refering to the character naming screen. The character you name at the start of the game is Chara; therefore that makes Chara the demon that comes when people call its name, or name it."

Yeah but the fact they says "it doenst matter when or where"shows that they appears multiple times, thats a reference to how Frisk come back to life when they hear Asgore calling Charas name.

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"Nowhere does it say that Flowey had his own personal fear of death. The only reason he felt DT is because he had DT injected into him. You can't prove otherwise."

".If you don't have a SOUL, what happens when you...?", that proove that he has his fear of death pushing him to have dt

"2. Which canon are you talking about? The one where SOULless beings can naturally feel neutral emotion, or the real one?"

That's never said they can't feel neutral emotion

"I have no idea what you mean by this. Frisk never struggles to achieve their goal unless we force them to achieve it? So Frisk could effortlessly go through all of monsterkind, but the minute we force them to do the exact thing they were going to do in the first place, they fail miserably? What?????????" Please explain.

If we stop to play the game, then Frisk would stop aswell. If we end the game with a neutral ending then Frisk wouldn't come back to save the monster kind.

" And yet DT inside of a SOUL is red. But that's clearly impossible; no way a substance could act differently under different conditions! That's like, the antithesis of all of chemistry! "

Where is even said the dt is red at first place??

and here a fact:Flowey's petals are different from other golden flowers but rather have the exact same color as the save point.And he's also the only flower that's injected of dt. Thats again a hint that dt is yellow(as the save point not th as justice soul)

"THE VERY FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD IS A DETAILED EXPLANATION OF WHY THE BALL GAME PROVES THAT DT=RED SOUL.

JESUS CHRIST, DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW TO READ!?"

Yet it completely ignores the fact that red soul is confirmed to be a mix of all traits by the ball game, not dt as that has nothing to do with any firmess of purpose.

I don't care of how Frisk behaves in the game, they shows many aspects of personality aswell as sometimes firmess of purpose but thats irevelant as they are mostly under our influence and have not really an established personality. They can be good or evil, determined or not, that  all depends of usBold text