Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-27136653-20180228205701/@comment-32182236-20180312164038

"Hotland is in essence a giant magmatic lake with platforms and pathways built on and over it. I am assuming most of the stuff built on the higher platforms, such as the MTT resort, sit on some natural rock formation, since they don't sit on top of the CORE, and they cannot be levitating in the air either."

You would be correct. And misunderstanding my point at the same time. I never said New Home rests on the CORE. I said the CORE was created to get past the cliff. Also, MTT isn't on the higher side. It's connected to the LOWER part of the CORE, meaning that it's on the BOTTOM side of the cliff.

"And since New Home is practically a giant castle, plus a ton of buildings surrounding it, I don't think it's supported by the CORE either. The CORE is a powerplant, not a supporting structure. So that leads me to believe that New Home sits on a natural rock formation too."

Correct again:This second rock formation is what we call the TOP side of the cliff!

"And the elevators are then a mean of transport between these mountainous "platforms"."

Exactly. You need some way to travel high enough to reach the top side of the cliff.

"Using wooden bridge connections and stone carving, one would therefore be able to make a staircase that would ascend these, since it's clearly not just a vertical dropoff. And that's what I wanted to show with that image."

It IS a vertical drop-off, though. That's why I said the image of something that WASN'T a vertical drop-off won't work here.

"Perhaps, some of these images would be a better illustration of the concept: https://www.google.cz/search?q=stone+cliff+staircase&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjr8_LRheXZAhXIESwKHf1PAFUQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=974#imgrc=Yr1nPVK5alA8aM:"

That could only be built from the top down, by carving out the stone to form the staircase. The whole point is they have to get to the top. If they were already at the top, they could have formed New Home already. They have to get to the top first. It's a catch-22. (And no, you can't just take the stone out from the bottom. If you do that.. AVALANCHE!!!)

"Also, a side note, not all elevators go only vertically. Some go horizontally, and some even combine multiple directions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster"

Yeah, as the article states, they're not safe. Hence, them being discontinued And that's just traveling less than 8 meters horizontally-The main direction is still vertical. Now, try to make that 500 meters horizontally and see what happens.

"It's still written in first person. Text books say what has each individual or group did in third person, unless they're quoting something. But the monster history books almost look like they're explaining something to YOU. Of course, that wasn't the author's intention. So I said that they originally wrote it as a personal documentation. It's just too subjective to be something written by some historian. There aren't even any dates."

Yes, you, the reader. The one who wants to learn more about our world! You DO want to know about our history, right monsters? Oh, humans? Here, let us tell you our tale. #MonsterImpression?

Also, each page we read seems to take place directly after an event. For example, where we start from Volume 1 takes place directly after the war (which also appears in Volume 1, just in the pages before then, which we can't see) The date of the nonsters surrendering to the humans likely WAS written down, just like the date the Declaration of Independence was signed, and the date Britain surrendered. And since the monsters retreated directly afterwards, no need to repeat the date-It's the same day. Volumes 6-8 not mentioning dates is self-explantory:They aren't even talking about history. As for Volume 4, it's clear this was ALSO directly after an event:By my theory, the event is when it was agreed upon that there were no emtrances or exits, and by yours, it was when Chara fell, which would almost certainly have a date given.

"I don't understand your reasoning.

It's just a name. It's not a rule to do it like this. I'm pretty sure you can compile something, without relabeling it with non-numerical names. Monster history could very well be a giant collection of personal notes compiled into a single multi-part work.

Maybe you should spend some more time writing these replies. You tend to use nonsensical reasoning quite often, and it's driving me crazy."

Well, why aren't they just called personal notes? Why aren't the original names being used? (By the way, I used the Quran and Bible for a reason-They're both compilations of many individual works-In the case of the Bible, over many centuries. I used them to demostrate that compliers just stick with the original name, rather than assigning them new names. ...They're the only ones I could find.)

"And where did the books mention the 'new world' equivalent? What does this example phrase refer to? Maybe I forgot. Or maybe I'm testing you to see if you're paying attention."

"Fearful of further human attacks, we retreated. Far, far, into the earth we walked, until we reached the cavern's end. This was our new home, which we named... 'Home.'"

Specifically, "our new home". I thought that's what you meant when you said it was written as if the events were recent.

"As I said, the books were rewritten as they were compiled and published. This includes a change in the script."

..Then if the script was changed to make it more history-like, we can't we say the new, revised version, was meant to ezplain history?

"Plus, we're talking about Gerson here. He's at least a thousand years old. Living that long, I certainly would forget plenty of things. It's not a matter of age, but simply a matter of memory capacity."

Gerson didn't know exactly how they retreated, just that they did. And it probably would have taken him a while to write the books. Enough time for him to remember what he had to.. After all, the "fuzzy memory" is referring to where "Fluffybuns" comes from, and he ends up remembering in the end. Considering how the game can be beaten in less than a day (Froggit even mentions it was one day), that means he got it back in one day. It can take months to make a book.

"Besides, if these were written by him, I can imagine he probably didn't care about publishing a book, he most likely got other people to use his notes and get revenue from that. As I said, Gerson is a warrior, not a book publisher."

He WAS a warrior. Now he's a historian. If he was still a warrior, we'd see him in the Royal Guard, not explaining the Delta Rune and making fun of Asgore's names. "You know what I always say.. King Fluffybuns can't name for beans!" At some point, there was a shift. And my premise is that he starting working on those books directly after the "shift".

"And if it wasn't Gerson? Then it was some other monster, whose life span wasn't so long, and so it is much more probable that they indeed wrote about recent events; recent to them, that is."

1000 years is the lifespan of an average monster. The only monsters we know the lifespan for is Toriel, Asgore, and Gerson, and they all lived this long. Gerson debunks the idea of long life being solely for Boss Monsters. So, yeah.. 1000 years is actually quite normal.

"As I said, it could have been a footnote. And A G A I N, I don't understand your reasoning at all. The war ended the moment they surrendered. The time after that is not described as wartime. So yes, when the book said they were fearful of further human attacks (ergo, they knew the humans could either lift the barrier and attack, or perhaps go directly through it and attack), that was describing events right after the war."

Well, you're right that you don't understand my reasoning. You're missing the point again. I mentioned us opening up a random page for a reason. YES, the book was describing events right after the war in the pages we read. I'm saying BEFORE them, in the pages we skipped ahead past, there were books describing the war itself. Because we opened up a random page, not the first page. I said the book didn't START with events right after the war.

"Yes, it's so detailed I really doubt we needed that much info to understand that a human died and that a monster absorbed their soul."

You also need to understand how such a thing's possible, why Asriel was able to cross the barrier this way (hence Volume 7), why Asriel had the power to destroy the humans there, making Asriel's choice not to fight a significant one. And, all at the same time, why Asgore didn't just capture Chara's SOUL, for later on in his declaration of war, what happened to Asriel..

"And didn't it? I think it's implied it did. After all, their soul was very powerul. I'm saying A soul, since if they were 2, Chara's soul would have survived, but it didn't. Which suggests their souls fused or something, giving rise to a new kind of soul, that unfortunately wasn't all that strong post-mortem. But whatever."

Yes, it did. It would offer an explanation as to why it did, instead of just turning to dust like normal. And, as I say later on in that post, why this could have been an attempt to justify Asgore declaring war.

"Unfortunately, monsters aren't experienced with illness. ???

As if... it was good if they were. So what's this mean? ... Maybe someone figured out that Asgore got poisoned? They probably didn't figure out that it was someone else's doing, but still. Someone understood that Asgore ate something stupid."

Correct. It was a response to Asgore getting sick. It gives an explanation as to why the monsters weren't able to say, "cure" that illness. Also why they weren't able to cure Chara's illness. If they WERE experienced with illness, they'd know how to fix it. The tragic tale of Asriel and Chara would have never happened.

"I found that it does matter. For if the hole wasn't there, then your theory that they were sealed from the Ruins end can't be right. And no, you haven't proven it yet.

Here's another question. Did they know that things can get through the barrier from the very beginning? Or did they figure it out once the trash and other things started flowing in? This question also plays a role."

I see. Well, it's simply the case of "all the holes were sealed off." It MUST be this way, because the monsters already had a rebuttal to the former-They already fell through a hole. That's how they got underground in the first place. Whether it be from Ruins or New Home, there's a hole underground. That one they fell through in the first place. So, if it was referring to the other, that no exits exist at all, that means they couldn't have fallen through any hole at all, whoch we KNOW is false!

"Here's another question. Did they know that things can get through the barrier from the very beginning? Or did they figure it out once the trash and other things started flowing in? This question also plays a role."

We actually don't know-The plaques contradict each other here. One set of plaques say yes, they can get through, while another says no, they can't, because there's no entrances or exits. And they voth connect to each other as well-One says anything could get through, but only ones with a powerful SOUL can leave, this being why the monsters are trapped.. And the latter one saying that no entrances or exits exist, hence, humans won't fall, a human SOUL can't be used to leave. (This is further evidence it means all holes were sealed off.)

However, this clear contradiction between plaques says whoever wrote them didn't really understand the Barrier-They were ao ignorant they literally contradicted themselves!

"I don't know why you brought up cameras. I yet have to see an anime about a movie studio."

The events of the anime had to be recorded somehow. SOMEONE had to be recording the events with a camera. But then, there's scene cuts! In order for that to be possible, the camera would have to move to be recording from the new angle. Either that, or it swapped to a different recording from a different camera. Or, you know, anime is fake, but Undyne's not willing to believe it, so if we want to interpret what she's saying, we can't say it's fake to her! We must instead try and figure out her intepretations on how the events of the show got recorded! I mean, they are real, right? ANIME IS REAL, RIGHT?!?! /undyne impression

"Also, you kinda misunderstood her. She thinks the humans live exactly like anime depicts them."

Exactly. That anime depicts their true lives. That anime IS their true lives. That their true lives were literally recorded, and what we see as anime are recordings of real events. So, what technology would be required to do this? To record the very lives of some main characters? To have there be an anime that's actually real?

"But she said that thanks TO the trash, they have all THEIR (the monsters') modern technologies."

Which is anime. As I said, Undyne has very skewed views on what constitues as "modern technology".

"The only anime stuff in the trash are the anime videos themselves, and down in the underground, only Alphys's room is sort of anime. Their technologies are totally normal. Mechanical+magical tech fusion normal, that is."

Yeah. And it's not the tech Undyne means, because to her, anime's MUCH cooler than THAT stuff. Even better than a robot with an artifical SOUL! BECAUSE IT'S THE REAL HISTORY OF HUMANS, RECORDED FOR TELEVESION!! #okayhowmanyundyneimpressionswilltherebehere

"What Undyne is therefore saying is, that only thanks to the human trash did they manage to progress technologically."

Because what better technolgy do monsters have than being aboe to VEIW THE PERSONAL LIVES OF THE CAT-GIRL PRINCESS?!?! #okaythats3undyneimpressions

"The only exception to this would be the CORE, but really, the only fancy thing about the CORE is how it can rearrange itself. This is to confuse the humans. Since the CORE was built around the time that Chara came, there would not only be no reason to implement this, but also the required tech would be missing. We can't do that now, and back then, well, Toriel's phone is ancient. Back then, when Chara fell, it was presumably modern (I'm just guessing that). So... 90's? Yeah, we couldn't make rearranging buildings back then either.

So in addition to the above, this is also telling us that some time after Chara's death, the CORE was upgraded to its current form."

Yeah, it was upgraded alright. It was upgraded probably around the time of the second human falling. (Alright, from this point forward, I'm counting Chara as the first human. So Frisk is the eighth, and the seventh is NOT Frisk, nor the seventh SOUL for Asgore to capture.)

"The trash is just trash. But thanks to the trash, they managed to upgrade their own tech. They of course didn't use the trash itself."

Not to Undyne it's not!! (Also not to Bratty and Catty!) And duh, of course they didn't use the trash. Most of them don't even know what anime is. Not even Asgore himself knows what it is.