Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190617222636/@comment-26006155-20190621143824

Ok, you're saying a lot of things here. I'm going to have to make a list:

Beta Sans (Frisk) is the Sans native to the timeline. He begins by retracing Sans' original stepss, until his future self Alpha Sans invades the timeline, and changes things, creating a situation where two of them exist at once.

"By the way, the DT extraction machine's status was inactive. It was never activated yet." -- Ok, so where did Alphys get all the Determination she used to inject into so many monsters and flowers and things? She specifically mentions using Gaster's blueprints to make that machine. That particular machine didn't exist until Alphys built it. Just because it's now "inactive" does not mean it was never used. It's idling, like a screen saver. She's been using it a lot.

Alphys found blueprints Gaster had made to make his DE machine. I'm assuming that Gaster tested the device to make sure it worked, since it did work when Alphys built her own. So yes, Gaster was working with Determination before Chara arrived.

"... Because if Gaster now did fall before the DT experiments even began, there is no longer evidence suggesting Chara wasn't the first human." See above. It's hard to imagine Gaster could design a Determination Extraction machine that worked if he had no human souls to experiment with.

You have to keep in mind what the characters know when they say things. People might call Chara "The First Human", but they didn't know about Sans and Gaster when they said this. Characters can lie, or simply be wrong about things. Alphys assumed that Determination turned monsters into mush because that's what happened to all the ones that had already Fallen Down and been delivered to her lab. But Alphys might not have known Undyne had Determination when she said that.

Flowey had Asriel's essense for a long time. And Alphys injected Determination into several golden flowers. But Flowey was the only one who ever appeared to animate and become fully sentient. Although the golden flowers that choose to grow where they knew Frisk would fall are kind of creepy. Flowey's animation happened after Entry 17, and wasn't triggered by anything Alphys herself did

Neither Napstablook nor Mettaton were absorbed by Flowey's soul-sucking blast. It seems that both of these ghosts were exempt from it. Ghosts are very powerful creatures in his world. One reason Gaster

Remember that essense isn't the same as SOUL. Chara's essense was in the golden flowers that used pre-knowledge to grow where Frisk would fall, but her real SOUL was still in Asriel. Frisk became infected with Chara's essense when he contacted the flowers. Flowey talks about "You and your stolen soul" on the No Mercy route after Frisk kills Toriel. This could either mean Frisk's SOUL, which Chara is taking over, or The Player's soul.

Because Chara's essense can be seperated, some of her can be in each of the golden flowers, with her SOUL still being inact in the flower with the most essense, Flowey.

And remember that The Player gave Chara their name, thinking she was them. And it's what The Player decides that determines what Chara, the Narrator, knows, and how they act, and whether they're ulimatedly saved or destroyed in the end, by what happens to Asriel.

It's a strange situation. But it's a situation where The Player's own actions ultimately decide the fate of their own SOUL. Which I was think a very intentional design choice.

Amnesia can be temporary. Sans could have regained his memory after his adventure in the Ruins.

Ness/Sans cannot return home, because the vehicle he and Andonuts/Gaster arrived in, The Silver Key Machine, is still broken. And only Gaster can fix it. And Gaster is no longer in the party. The Core's equipment might have been able to manipulate dimensions and time, but traveling to an entirely new world might have been out of its reach.

What I'm saying is that Sans DID walk Frisk's journey, in the Alpha Timeline. Sans knew Toriel was there in the Ruins, she had his cell phone. The question is, when exactly did this happen, and why?

Again, I don't know how Sans and Frisk ended up in the Ruins. It's an unmapped part of timeline.