Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31619784-20170328162322/@comment-39765588-20190610182934

MagomaevaAmina wrote: @Burly heart.Finnaly someone mentionned this theory as i Always had the will to debunk this theory on it enterety as i hate it with all my heart since it reduce chara to a one dimensiolan evil force that only wants power.This theory is also EXTREMELY hypocrit as it says that chara has no hand in the pacifist run and is nonexistent while the player still control frisk,it says that chara only control frisk in the genocide run and only resurects here while is somehow "the player",i'am not sure how is it supposed to work but it seems like nothing more than a blame shifting. In the end, Chara does end up a one-dimensional force who only wants power. That Chara is unfeeling, disconnected from their world, and resurrected entirely by the evil intentions of the Player. This is essentially a separate entity from Chara the First Human, an apparently troubled child who may have had a violent streak, but was still generally regarded as a good kid.

Chara doesn't control Frisk in the Pacifist or Neutral runs because Chara's dead in those runs. Chara's essense, if you will, is resurrected during the Genocide run and is then able to exert influence over Frisk.

When I say Chara is a Player, I don't really mean it literally. I mean that Chara has access to the same abilities you have as a Player, including the obvious SAVE, LOAD, etc. but also the ability to edit or delete game files, close the game window, etc. Hopefully this makes more sense!

agomaevaAmina wrote: they DONT have to share your name,thats a common misconception:toby fox said to name them after ourselves ONLY if theres no better idea.And your instructions are "name the Fallen human"not "whats your name"like in many rpgs that features the player(earthbound or even deltarune) I know that you don't have to use your own name, or any name in particular. I was responding to an earlier poster who asked why it was Chara who received the name they had given, as opposed to Frisk. We're in agreement on this one.

MagomaevaAmina wrote:

Correction:he BECOMES the player,develop the completionst tendencies,view the world as "kill or be killed"like we do in every rpg,seek power or specifically to gain enough souls to became all powerfull,refers to the characetrs as "characters"instead of real people,see his world like a game and wants to keep playing with chara for all eternity which is a metaphor of how we refuse to let go our beloved characters.

Yes, you are correct here. I realized my mistake and edited my post, but I imagine you were writing your reply when I did so. I think the metaphor you've mentioned makes a lot of sense, as well.

MagomaevaAmina wrote:

Theres NO evidences that chara becomes the player or especially the power-leveler.And iam not sure to quite understand,if chara is the player,why do they "resurect"only in the genocide run???either they are the player and is so present in every run or they are not and is only a pure evil entity that control frisk in the genocide run,you arent clear dude.Canonicaly,they are present in every single run given their name in the stats,the presence of their memories in every run when frisk dies or sleep etc....They DONT resurect in genocide run,they were awakened from death since frisk fell in the underground thanks to their dt. As I said above, I don't mean Chara literally becomes The Player, or replaces you as The Player. I mean that Chara gains the abilities of a Player. I couldn't tell you why, in terms of universe mechanics, Chara is resurrected in the Genocide Run. I figure at this point, it's not really Chara, but a representation of that "kill everything, get strong" mindset. But this Chara explicitly states they were resurrected by you (the player) and your power. The Fallen Human's name is present in the stats, yes, and honestly I have no idea why that is. There's the obvious "it's supposed to be a surprise" answer, I suppose. And of course it makes sense that the name you choose is the name of the file. Regardless, this has nothing to do with how alive/dead Chara is in any given run. MagomaevaAmina wrote:

And if they were really the player,i doubt that they would call your will to do the genocide run again a "perverted sentimentality"or outright say that they dont understand your completionist tendencies.

Many people use the line "every time the number increases that feeling that me"as sole evidence for this theory but in one hand a single vague line cant be an argument to prove anything and in the other,given the context ,given that chara doesnt want you to do a genocide run again while its the only run that can maximaze their stats,given that chara outright says that they did not understand that the purpose of their reincarnation is power unless you show them ,given that they are talking with frisk,i'd says that they are just saying that frisk feel them growing "stronger"when they increase their stats as both share the same stats. Chara wouldn't want you to do a second Genocide Run/wouldn't understand why you'd want to do a second Genocide Run because they just want it destroyed. They give you the chance to True Reset, but going to all that trouble just to do the exact same things and get the exact same ending would be weird, especially to someone who doesn't really "feel" anymore.

Also I don't believe that Chara is speaking to Frisk at the end of the Genocide Route. Frisk's sprite isn't present, and the way that Chara is speaking definitely feels directed at you, the player, and not Frisk the character. I'm also not convinced that Chara and Frisk are sharing the same stats, but I also don't think it'd make much difference if they did. MagomaevaAmina wrote: "Like you, they are outside the game"

unlike you they are EXPLICTLY in the game and in frisk body not outside the game.

"and like you they push Frisk in the direction they want to go."

and yet somehow blame frisk for all the bad actions even in the second genocide ending where they wouldnt get any benefit from it. You're right, saying they're "outside the game" is pretty inaccurate, but it's how my brain interpreted it at the time. I mean that, though they're literally in the game, they have the awareness that it's a game. Meta knowledge. This makes them, in a way, outside the game - like D&D players at the table, both in the game as characters and outside of it as players.

And they have every right to blame you (not Frisk, as I don't believe they're talking to Frisk) for your misdeeds. You did them, after all. MagomaevaAmina wrote: i Wonder how is that supposed to prove anything:yes they can destroy the world just like we can. Well, that was the crux of the OP, so I addressed it. I'm glad we're in agreement over this ability.

MagomaevaAmina wrote:

In conclusion,you've provide no game evidences ,only speculations endorced by made up arguments. Chara isnt you and they will never be you,they have their own personality,backstory and motives that are different from yours "you and i arent the same are we?this soul resonates with a Strange feeling i cannot understand those feeelings anymore.theres a Reason why you continue to destroy this world,theres a reason why you continue to destroy it.You,you are wracked with a perverted sentimentality,hmm i cannot understand these feelings anymore".I dont undertand the fascination people have for this theory but something thats certain is that it really lack evidences and is fully debunked by chara's speech itself. I've done my best to provide evidence that comes from the game, but I also admit that this is speculation on my part - or, more accurately, it's how I've internally summed up everything the game and its characters tell us. I don't think I've invented anything from nothing.

Chara does indeed have their own backstory, motives, and all that - I never tried to say otherwise. I even made it a point to differentiate Chara the First Human from Chara the Genocide Run Ending, neither of which are You the Player, or Frisk the Character. Honestly, I'm not sure why you think I'm suggesting that.

Anyway, damn, this is a long post.