Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-32182236-20181115191545

"I define B as something that needs no new "inexplicable universal rules"."

Oh, that? Then my battle HUD is kind of B as well, since I eventualy simply called it a special case of the overworld, that has to do with the fact that your SOUL leaves the body during a battle.

"When there's an inconsistency, and you CANNOT simply shift the stuff around to get rid of it, then OF COURSE you gotta make up a new rule. The only difference between B and C is whether it's defined at all. B = whatever sci-fi explanation that works. C = literally "god did it"."

Right. Well, in that case, yes, B is better even in Gerson's case. And we should try to find out what explanation there might be for this.

"What do you say then? Can the shops be explained with B, or do you crave for a specific new law of physics, metaphysics, thermodynamics and quantum mechanics, which states that "if a person [insert a description of Frisk's DNA and their soul and everything pretty much here] stands at [the location of any of the shops], then [do something]"...?"

Isn't the latter B, by your reasoning? Since it's literally defined? Also, why don't the other monsters make use of these crystals to prevent Frisk from making it to Asgore? Frisk can still talk to Gerson, and even buy from Gerson, so Frisk isn't incapable of reaching out and touching Gerson's area. They're incapable of ATTACKING Gerson SPECIFICALLY. So.. The crystal explanation doesn't quite work. But, if we make note of the way human attacks work, as demonstrated by Sans' battle, it's likely that due to being in a different state, a FIGHT cannot be activated, and thus, the battle cannot begin. Which means none of the shopkeepers can be killed.

"I prefer B, like, everywhere, with anything and everything. C is just eww."

Yes, B is better than C. Also, both are better than A. ..That or A and C are equally bad. It's one of those two.

"But if you think of them as simple spacetime portals transporting essences around (e.g. magic manipulating other magic, nothing physical that would illogically disturb causality), then there's nothing meta about them and whatever new rule I give them is akin to me giving the crystals in Waterfall force-field generating abilities."

Using a rule that already exists is better, though. In fact, maybe we should make there be four options rather than three to avoid confusion.

A-Ignore it

B-Explain it with a rule that already has been shown to exist

C-Explain it with a new, well-defined, explained rule.

D-Just ad hoc it.

...D's probably what you imagined your C to be, while I imagined it to be more like the C on THIS list. In that case..

B>C>D=A (saying it just didn't happen is technically another form of ad hoccing the whole thing. "Toby did it" being the argument. Just like "God did it." So I place D and A at the same level.)

"I have also rejected your theory, because in the end, I regard DT and souls as more important and "based in reality" than the entire SLR mechanic."

I also have explanations on DT and SOULs that fit into the "red=DT" hypothesis. Who says you can't have both?

"What was it again, that we can reload mid-battle by quitting the game? Yeah. That is quite obscure, compared to the soul mechanics and whatnot, hence why I'm putting them above the SLR in this specific case."

Technically, though, one was explicit, the other was merely ONE interpretation of plaques which were already proven to have flawed information. And it is for that reason that I place the former as better placed in reality.

"And about the reload itself, here's a piece of my wisdom: Flowey doesn't address this, so it's not canon. You see, I would expect him to address it. After all, bamboozling a literal god with a simple reload is quite noteworthy."

Flowey DOES address this... In the Omega Flowey fight. Also, you haven't bamboozled him. You still have to fight him again. You're only delaying the inevitable..

"This is reminding me of the fact that Toriel mentions allergies in that rock puzzle room only if you read the sign that says something like 3/4 rocks like being pushed. It's an illogical connection of events, and Nochocolate even received a reply from Toby (@undertalegame) confirming it's a bug:"

Well, when was this message made?

Toriel asking about allergies in GENERAL is a strange sequence of events. It normally happens if you skip her text, I believe. (Minus the "bug", obviously) Which has no basis to link to this line in canon. So, there are two possibilities. First, it could be a case of Synchronitiy. (As the Clam Girl describes it. You know, the idea that two events can be linked meaningully yet not causally?) Second, it might have to do with, in canon, the amount of time it took you to reach that point-Skipping text and signs signifies that you're rushing through things. It might be this kind of behavior that gets Toriel to believe something's wrong.

Or it actually was a bug. So, answer the question above, and we can discuss this manner more.

Oh, and if that ended up being fixed, then yes, it is a bug. Definitively. But that also means he fixed it, unlike in the Asriel fight.