Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20200107155350/@comment-32182236-20200217174615

I agree with Jacky.

It doesn't matter how Chara used the chain-This shows both that they can, and that they do.

It also shows Frisk can.

We know Frisk remembers resets, as proved earlier. We also know that Frisk had knowledge of the key, as Chara tells us such.

So, we can therefore prove that Frisk would have had to be able to use the key if it was there. So I have a reductio ad absurdum to you.


 * Premise 1:The key was on Frisk prior to the conversation. That is, Frisk had the key ever since Hotland, at the latest. (We're assuming this because that's what the Ferret hypothesis says it is.)
 * Premise 2:Frisk figures out about the key after the 3rd reload of Sans' speech
 * Premise 3:Frisk can use keys without the need for Chara doing it for them (YOU unlocked the chain)
 * Conclusion 1:From Premise 3, we can conclude that if Frisk has knowledge of the key, and has the key, they can use it.
 * Conclusion 2:From Premise 2 and Conclusion 1, we can conclude that Frisk can use the key they had after the 3rd reload of Sans' speech (a conclusion that is true-We haven't broken things yet.)
 * Premise 4:Frisk retains knowledge across resets
 * Conclusion 3:From Premise 4, we can therefore conclude that if Frisk knows of the key on reload 3, they'll also know of the key on reload 4.
 * Conclusion 4:From Premise 2 and Conclusion 3, we know that they have knowledge of the key on reload 4, even prior to talking to Sans.
 * Conclusion 5:From Premise 1, Conclusion 1, and Conclusion 4, we conclude that Frisk can use the key on reload 4 prior to talking to Sans.

Conclusion 5 is false, yet the reasoning is valid. Therefore, one of the premises must be false. We've already proven Premise 2, Premise 3, and Premise 4, so that only leaves Premise 1.

Therefore, Frisk did not have the key the entire time:Sans gave us the key during the conversation.