Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31981697-20190128193337/@comment-27136653-20190428035310

Teslamania91 wrote: PersonThePerson wrote: So Toriel was getting deja vu from humans who couldn't save? How? Flowey, of course. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6gS2LPXdIc5N3A5SEdWNkxrMWc/view

Flowey was the only one with this power during his lifetime. So either, he had more power than the other humans, or no other humans fell down during his lifetime.

Here's why the latter is true:

Alphys extracted the DT from the human souls and used it on the dying monsters, as well as on the flower that would later on become Flowey. This means that Flowey couldn't have had more DT than the souls, else the souls would die, since DT is the only thing keeping them alive:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6gS2LPXdIc5OWVTaGU5Qnc2N0k/view

We COULD say that she took >1/7 from each soul, which would total more than 1 full soul, but Flowey's age is also important:

https://nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/139872334490/how-long-has-flowey-existed

Tl;dr, the time between Frisk and the last human was really long, Flowey was born around the time that Snowdrake ran away from home, Snowdrake is still a teen (teen = someone in the range of being 13 to 19 years old). Give or take a few years that would be needed for such child to develop the necessary cognitive skills to rebel like this, and you don't have that much time left, so the wiggle room for Flowey to encounter the last human is tiny. We could speculate about the meaning of "a really long time" that Toriel mentioned, but Toriel has lived in the ruins for nearly a century now:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6gS2LPXdIc5Qk1Gb3p5LVRHOEE/view

While this piece of evidence is iffy, Sans does have a knack for guessing time periods correctly. Remember, he precisely knows the amount of time we've reset during his battle, despite not remembering the resets:

https://nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/148850986605/sans-does-not-remember-other-timelines

Ergo, we could assume that his guess was correct. I mean, you can believe whatever you want, that it's been 10 years, 50 years, 2 centuries, 1 thousand years, 10 thousand years, but I'm going with 1 century, since that at least has some evidence for it, as opposed to none whatsoever.

So, take a century, divide it by 7, and that would be the average amount of time between the fallen humans. Now, add a few more years to emphasize Toriel's "it's been a long time" line, and you're already approaching Snowdrake's time limit.

Conclusion?

Flowey never met any of the 6 humans, which means they had the power to reset, since otherwise, Toriel wouldn't be having a deja vu.

BESIDES, do you remember what Flowey did at the end of the game? Asgore showed the souls to us, and then fought us. But Flowey said that he never showed them to him. He wouldn't be saying this if Asgore showed them to some previous human, since that would give him the opportunity to kill Asgore and take the souls. In other words, his request to us to convince Asgore to show us the souls would be pointless.

This further suggests that Flowey never met the other humans. And most importantly of all, Asgore nods when you tell him you've fought him before during his battle. He's not surprised in the slightest. Ergo, you're not the first one to timejump around his battle. Good for you though, you're the first one to survive it.

And lastly, a proof that Flowey has less than 1 human soul worth of DT in him, meaning that he wouldn't be in control of the timeline EVEN IF he met the other humans:

Soul power is determination. This is because soul power grows proportionally WITH the determination contained by the soul. If you remember, it takes nearly all monster souls to equal just one human soul, and monsters can't take that much DT because their bodies aren't physical enough, they'd melt. So, humans not only have more soul power, they also have more DT. And here's where the game outright mentions the power of the soul in the context of determination:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6gS2LPXdIc5TjRuc3lIQ0x2WkE/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6gS2LPXdIc5OWVTaGU5Qnc2N0k/view

So SP = DT.

And because human souls are used as a measure of the power needed to break the barrier, that means they all must have the same strength, since otherwise, they wouldn't be used as a measuring unit. This means that ALL human souls have the same power, even Frisk's soul. And since Frisk is in control and not Flowey, what does that imply?