Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-27136653-20180228205701/@comment-27136653-20180311215151

"..Wrong angle. The cliff is vertical, not diagonal. That's why the elevator to NEW HOME even works in the first place."

I don't understand your reasoning.

Hotland is in essence a giant magmatic lake with platforms and pathways built on and over it. I am assuming most of the stuff built on the higher platforms, such as the MTT resort, sit on some natural rock formation, since they don't sit on top of the CORE, and they cannot be levitating in the air either. And since New Home is practically a giant castle, plus a ton of buildings surrounding it, I don't think it's supported by the CORE either. The CORE is a powerplant, not a supporting structure. So that leads me to believe that New Home sits on a natural rock formation too. And the elevators are then a mean of transport between these mountainous "platforms". Using wooden bridge connections and stone carving, one would therefore be able to make a staircase that would ascend these, since it's clearly not just a vertical dropoff. And that's what I wanted to show with that image. Perhaps, some of these images would be a better illustration of the concept: https://www.google.cz/search?q=stone+cliff+staircase&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjr8_LRheXZAhXIESwKHf1PAFUQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=974#imgrc=Yr1nPVK5alA8aM:

Also, a side note, not all elevators go only vertically. Some go horizontally, and some even combine multiple directions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster

""We" refers to the monster race as a whole, not just the author. Kind of like how some refer to the United States' actions as "us". If it was like a diary, it would be talking about one monster in particular-the author. "I ran with the others, fearful of human attacks" is something I'd consider as evidence that it's like a diary. Until then, I'm calling it the monster counterpart to American history."

It's still written in first person. Text books say what has each individual or group did in third person, unless they're quoting something. But the monster history books almost look like they're explaining something to YOU. Of course, that wasn't the author's intention. So I said that they originally wrote it as a personal documentation. It's just too subjective to be something written by some historian. There aren't even any dates.

"That's not how compilation works. They're referred to by their original name, all in one big book. Take for example, the Bible and Quran. We don't call Exodus "Torah, Volume 2" now, do we? (Those books are the closest thing I could find to this situation-Compilations of books made by many authors. If you have a better counterpart, then you can present it.)"

I don't understand your reasoning.

It's just a name. It's not a rule to do it like this. I'm pretty sure you can compile something, without relabeling it with non-numerical names. Monster history could very well be a giant collection of personal notes compiled into a single multi-part work.

Maybe you should spend some more time writing these replies. You tend to use nonsensical reasoning quite often, and it's driving me crazy.

"Yeah, you're missing the point. You said the book was written as if the events are recent. I'm pointing out how we still call America "The New World", despite the fact that it's not new at all anymore. By your logic, the fact that we call it "The New World" means it must have been discovered recently. Now do you get it? It's written that way for the same reason why we call America "The New World"-For historical accuracy."

And where did the books mention the 'new world' equivalent? What does this example phrase refer to? Maybe I forgot. Or maybe I'm testing you to see if you're paying attention.

"A few decades is not rapid. That's a human generation. Also, relooking at my timeline, it's actually closer to a century. Probably a little over a century. One again though, that's speculation. For all we know they could have been written by Gerson directly after the declaration of war, with Gerson explaining how they reached this position. But.. That's unlikely. Especially since the books aren't ancient like the glyphs, and Gerson wouldn't be old at the time. A more plausible time period is around the death of the sixth/seventh human. (Still don't know whether to count Chara as human 1 or human 0.)"

As I said, the books were rewritten as they were compiled and published. This includes a change in the script. Plus, we're talking about Gerson here. He's at least a thousand years old. Living that long, I certainly would forget plenty of things. It's not a matter age, but simply a matter of memory capacity. Besides, if these were written by him, I can imagine he probably didn't care about publishing a book, he most likely got other people to use his notes and get revenue from that. As I said, Gerson is a warrior, not a book publisher. And if it wasn't Gerson? Then it was some other monster, whose life span wasn't so long, and so it is much more probable that they indeed wrote about recent events; recent to them, that is.

"If it lost the history part of it, then why are the books still labeled that way? Why did the "complier", as you suggest, still call them "monster history"?"

"It didn't. Remember how you said we opened up a random page? Yeah... The book starts with the war itself, not what happened afterwards. "Fearful of further human attacks" is no way to start a series, as you've already failed. Further human attacks? So they attacked before? Why? What's going on here?!? The Waterfall plaques explain why, and they even fit the style of the history books.."

As I said, it could have been a footnote. And A G A I N, I don't understand your reasoning at all. The war ended the moment they surrendered. The time after that is not described as wartime. So yes, when the book said they were fearful of further human attacks (ergo, they knew the humans could either lift the barrier and attack, or perhaps go directly through it and attack), that was describing events right after the war.

"My argument is that we'd need the babble, not that just the babble we see in the files is enough. Yes, we probably need more information than that. Luckily, we have 3 entire volumes of books that explain these things in very great detail. Likely filled with even more info on the matter."

Yes, it's so detailed I really doubt we needed that much info to understand that a human died and that a monster absorbed their soul.

"So, we should expect their SOUL to linger for a few seconds, right?"

And didn't it? I think it's implied it did. After all, their soul was very powerul. I'm saying A soul, since if they were 2, Chara's soul would have survived, but it didn't. Which suggests their souls fused or something, giving rise to a new kind of soul, that unfortunately wasn't all that strong post-mortem. But whatever.

"Also, the unfortunately part is because, well.. Asgore grew ill."

Unfortunately, monsters aren't experienced with illness. ???

As if... it was good if they were. So what's this mean? ... Maybe someone figured out that Asogre got poisoned? They probably didn't figure out that it was someone else's doing, but still. Someone understood that Asgore ate something stupid.

"We really don't know. However, the conclusion is the same:Another human will never fall. Which means the humans will never attack, and we have no reason to fear them. We don't even need to make a leap in logic to say that, the plaques themselves say no human will ever fall. This dates it to before Chara falling."

I found that it does matter. For if the hole wasn't there, then your theory that they were sealed from the Ruins end can't be right. And no, you haven't proven it yet.

Here's another question. Did they know that things can get through the barrier from the very beginning? Or did they figure it out once the trash and other things started flowing in? This question also plays a role.

''"Actually, my point is Undyne has a very skewed point of view on what constitutes as "modern technology." I mean, let's just imagine some hypothetical world where anime, for some reason, is actually real. And is broadcast. Basically, Undyne's point of view. Well, in order for that to be possible and practical, there'd have to either be lots of cameras going on, or one, moving, teleporting one. And in the former case, they'd have to be invisible-Otherwise, they'd show up on the screen. That's already complex, requiring some kind of futuristic technology. (Yes, I know anime's not real. But, Undyne thinks it is, so when analyzing what she means, we must use HER point of view.) Basically, anime IS her "modern technology". Because to her, that's so much cooler than all those lasers in the CORE, or the CORE itself, and even cooler than the creation of an articifial robot with an artificial SOUL (yes, Mettaton's SOUL isn't artificial.. But nobody other than Alphys and Mettaton know that.)"''

I don't know why you brought up cameras. I yet have to see an anime about a movie studio.

Also, you kinda misunderstood her. She thinks the humans live exactly like anime depicts them. But she said that thanks TO the trash, they have all THEIR (the monsters') modern technologies. The only anime stuff in the trash are the anime videos themselves, and down in the underground, only Alphys's room is sort of anime. Their technologies are totally normal. Mechanical+magical tech fusion normal, that is.

What Undyne is therefore saying is, that only thanks to the human trash did they manage to progress technologically. The only exception to this would be the CORE, but really, the only fancy thing about the CORE is how it can rearrange itself. This is to confuse the humans. Since the CORE was built around the time that Chara came, there would not only be no reason to implement this, but also the required tech would be missing. We can't do that now, and back then, well, Toriel's phone is ancient. Back then, when Chara fell, it was presumably modern (I'm just guessing that). So... 90's? Yeah, we couldn't make rearranging buildings back then either.

So in addition to the above, this is also telling us that some time after Chara's death, the CORE was upgraded to its current form.

"Now do you get my point? It's not that the trash doesn't exist, it's that it's considered modern technology when it's actually quite far from "modern"."

The trash is just trash. But thanks to the trash, they managed to upgrade their own tech. They of course didn't use the trash itself.