Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-29788596-20160906011125/@comment-33883848-20200129195313

"Strange. In the intro, we can't see below the Barrier, indicating that light wasn't able to leave. And AT the Barrier, we see what appears to be a white, shining wall, indicating that light simply reflected off the Barrier."

In the intro...but we see the humans creating the barrier..And there's no natural light in the underground... No i dont see what i mean, can you explain this more precisely ?

"Yet Chara was able to bring their own body past the Barrier.Given this, what's likely is that living beings can take things that they're holding/touching across the Barrier with them."

That's still a STRONG evidence that objects can cross the barrier, you can try to find other interpretations but that's still a strong argument. I also don't see how it"s possible for objects to cross the barrier thanks to the touch...

"Ragel only says this if you haven't killed any monsters, and the Barrier hasn't been broken yet."

I would take what this only character states at face value. Its just their own way to refer to the surface.

And the music when Undyne revive herself is "but the EARTH refused to die'

And regadless anything, THERE'S NO WAY for Chara to destroy more than 8 billions of strong individuals with a freaking kitchen knife. Is there any evidences that they developed any super mega raindow powers when they come back while they never mannifest them throughout the game? The game only shows that they can destroy the world at a strike, that's it and since you cant load your save file when Chara destroy the world and when you open up the game, that implies Chara destroyed the world by erasing your save file. So no, dying did not give them any special powers besides the one related to their save ability and Chara already knows that they have this power and how to use it, implying that they always had it, even prior to their death.

"I mean, Flowey killed people for fun, and even tried to destroy the world, killing both humans and monsters. And yet we forgive him."

Flowey was pushed to it. He was brutally killed despite showing mercy. He lost his ability to love, to feel compassion which made him even more angry. He grow bored of everything and is desesperately trying to feel something new. But you're arguing that Chara simply hate monsters and humans and thus wants to destroy them simply because of it, with no deeper reason. I dont see any complexity here.

"Of course. As I said, they're not pure evil. They don't kill For the Evuls, they kill because they hate humanity."

How doenst that makes them pure evil? Like they hate humanity and want to kill them all simply because of it??? And what are their justifications for this?? That they are simply evil? What aspects of humanity may have lead Chara to wish to destroy literally every single human in existence ??( which doesnt even work because they see Frisk as a good partner even when they steal their soul,thus having the ability to completely take over them)

And of course, there's no evidences that any human even died in the souless pacifist run, so this argument doenst stand.

"They're still really messed up, though. I do disagree with the Chara Defense Squad, after all-So don't think I'm saying they're good. They're not. I called them an Anti-Villain for a reason. I know the name's probably a misnomer, but Anti-Villains are still bad. They're just villains with actual motivations for what they're doing. Which makes them far more realistic than cartoon villains."

Except everything that make Chara an "anti vilain" is pure speculation. Is there any evidence that Chara destroy humanity at the end of the souless pacifist run? Nope, there's not even a small hint of this, only Frisk's friends. Everything is even fine untill the last scene. Is there evidences that Chara wish to destroy the monsterkind since the start? Nope.

"Chara's no cartoon villain."

Oh yeah, your intepretation of them is a cliche spirit from horror movies seeking to kill everyone for vengence for the sake of vengence without explaining WHY they would want vengence instead of a complex character with good motives just like every other character of Undertale.

"This is the category that I place Chara in."

Explain me how your Chara is a relatable complex, human, tragic vilain ? So far you only argued that they are sadistic little shit wishing to make suffer everyone who havent done anything to them just because they hate humanity and monsters. So yeah, wishing everyone's death for no reason.