Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31981697-20170722123329/@comment-27136653-20170801095311

Just a heads up. I'm not counting Chara as the first human. So if I say the first one, I mean the first one to get captured by Asgore.

1) Because he doesn't know the HUD. And he was a coward all that time. He never wanted to kill 6 humans on the surface, he never hoped another one would fall down. It was his duty. And yet, he defeated them, just like Undyne said (no human ever got past Asgore).

2) Other humans had the DT, since they could reset. They had the same abilities. I already told you why that's a fact. And yes, Flowey couldn't have been created without at least one human falling down after Chara. I don't get why you had to point that obvious fact out.

3) We know that Papyrus has never seen a human before Frisk, and we know that Sans and Papyrus arrived to Snowdin together one day. Therefore, that promise Sans gave to Toriel was already after the 6th human fell. Otherwise those extra humans would be noticed by Papyrus. I don't think they would slip past him. He stands in the passage to Waterfall every damn time.

3.1) And I don't think those humans told Toriel any jokes. But still, if they did, if for example the last one befrore Frisk did, then that would push the date of the game to 221X, if you think the first 6 arrived within a hundred years. If not, then please, stretch it to 301X, but the city on the horizon doesn't look that futuristic to me. You're the one who said 301X, while everyone else says 211X. It's just simpler to assume the latter.

4) Underline AU does go over that. Read it please if you don't believe me. And how can you say that yellow's stuff is the most useful? We don't know in what condition that stuff was when the other humans had it, we don't even know what makes a simple cowboy hat so strong in the first place. We don't know if that's why the stronger items are found further out, we don't know anything basically. And I didn't say they lost them, I said they dropped them. That's something Frisk can do too. And green's gear was the furthest one out. Yellow gear was found in the dump. If you have trouble imagining why would they drop it then, read the Underline AU.

4.1) We don't know if Asgore knows Sans. And in all cases, Asgore rejected our mercy. The smashing of the button was symbolic. It was just another meta event that Toby added for the effect.

4.2)  Frisk awoken Chara's essence because of their soul, yes, but they didn't name Chara. That was us. We do the meta stuff, like pressing buttons, and Frisk does the actions, like offering mercy verbally (Frisk can speak, otherwise how would they for example tell Toriel which flavor is their favourite?).  Frisk is still a child with their own story, their own behavior. We're here because someone has to play the game, we aren't a part of it. We don't even control Frisk at all times anyways. If you say it was all Frisk, then believe in stuff like Glitchtale. Believe that Undertale was that stupidly meta. And if you say it was all us, then please, believe that consequences don't apply to you, and that it's just a dumb game, and that the more EXP you get, the better. As every dumb gamer believes.

The truth is, Toby created a battle system which drew inspiration from (figuratively speaking) every retro game ever. I CRINGE EVERY TIME SOMEONE DRAWS FANART WITH THE BUTTONS IN IT, AS IF IT'S CANON. HOLY SHIT GET OVER IT, Frisk is just a child in their own universe. There's no code in that universe, no glitches or errors, no buttons. That was for us. Not for Frisk. That secret room in Snowdin forest also was meant for us and not Frisk. Just like the battle in the final credits. If you wanna see a game where the player TRULY is a part of the universe, then play OneShot.

And that face was literally Toby's face recorded through a face cam and severely distorted. Toby even uses it on his twitter account: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/785864955811725312/cZDBbU2x_400x400.jpg

5) I said we had to remind them. That's literally what you described.

5.1) Chara. fucking. died. No questions. If you're having trouble understanding how were their memories revived then, then surprise, I do too. But somehow their essence was preserved. We don't know if that's what human souls do normally, but if not, then it might have been Asriel's soul, since monster souls definitely do that. But I personally believe that human souls don't do that, since I imagine the human society being pretty similar to the real world. I also imagine humans having no magic whatsoever. Which is one of the reasons I find stuff like Glitchtale so stupid. It's a nice headcanon but god forbid if you bring it to actual discussions about the game.

5.2) The other humans didn't do it, since they didn't do it. No need to ponder why none of them commited to a full genocide. And what do we know, maybe Sans wasn't there to fight any of them. After all, he and his brother did come from somewhere else. Perhaps it wasn't his job to fight humans in there. And about the humans, do you want a reminder why did they possess the same powers? http://nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/141805499420/all-fallen-humans-could-save-and-reload, http://nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/148946459104/frisks-friends-experience-d%C3%A9j%C3%A0-vu

6) I meant he's a simple person. Yes, he created a complex story, but for example the battle system was dead simple, which is also why this game was so praised for its originality. You spoke of wavelengths, I spoke of simple associations:

Cyan - cold, orange - fire (Pyrope is the first monster to use that attack, a monster who loves heat), purple and yellow - monster themes, green - the only remaining color (if we've already excluded red from the pool). And why would we exclude red? Well, those previous colors were soul modes. Toby needed a default color. And I think it's obvious that the default would be red, since red is ALWAYS the color of a heart. Maybe pink sometimes, but this isn't a love story and besides, red is more vibrant. There's no reason to not pick red. Why would Toby pick any other color over the color red? Why. Tell me why.

 Speak of wavelengths all you want, but I say that's bs. There's no reason to go that deep. Just as there's no reason to make the entire meta part of the game canon with the told story.