Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-10788405-20160720031315/@comment-10788405-20160721051745

well yes, we see that even though Asriel had regained his proper form AND had the equilavent of 7 human souls within him, he was still more like Flowey. For the purpose of this discussion, let's introduce a new being, an abomination (for lack of a better word). Abominations are soulless beings that have an overriding will to live, they're born from any living organism that is related in some way to a late monster/human (mostly monster as they disintegrate quickly) which is then injected with determination. They retain the memories of their former lives, but end up losing one of their traits, it may be random which is lost, but Flowey loses his compassion. I think that when Asriel regained his true form, he became a monster again which regained his ability to feel compassion, but I assume that it never crossed his mind to compare his memories as Flowey to his regained feelings of compassion.

Let me explain, when abominations regain their true form, they regain everything. In this instance, Flowey regained his compassion, but was still unable to feel anything, the trait was rendered dormant. I assume that when Flowey had the 6 human souls and nothing else in the neutral route, he also regained his compassion, but again it was rendered dormant. The act of saving Asriel was essentially making him remember something that would stir that emotion, this is why he seems to suffer an emotional breakdown towards the end of the fight. He then goes on to explain that the player cannot be predicted, making it fun to play with him, but that he also cares about them with his dormant trait slowly gaining strength.

Now, when I said that "He began to occupy one of the human souls", I was wrong. Now, as Flowey, he retained his memories but he wasn't himself likely due to resentment held towards the world due to his lack of compassion. When he became Asriel, he was still sort of himself. When we save him, we aren't bringing him back from the abyss, we're more just reminding himself of who he is. Mind you, with what you said about Souls being independant entities, I disagree. Souls are the culminations of every naturally living and sentient being, the lives of those beings are directly related to the existance of their soul. The compound that allows some souls to persist after death is determination, with high enough concentrations even being able to defy time itself. The 6 human souls (on that topic, I wonder how long the Soul is able to persist after death? Indefinately? Or for a very long time?) are the culminations of their respective humans, they would not exist without those humans. I wouldn't say that the souls are in fact independant.

With what I said about the overloading, that's fine, once again it's my own speculation and I have very little information on how the Souls rebelled.

When Asriel's soul fused with Chara's (i'd go as far as to say that Chara's soul corrupted Asriel's), they ended up with split control over that body. I'd wager that Chara's mind carried over into Flowey along with Asriel's, leading to his homicidal tendencies. In fact, new speculation that kind of goes against some of my older speculation.

When Asriel came back, he was under the control of Chara. When we are saving him, we're awakening Asriel and forcing Chara back. Asriel and Chara both end up with differing thoughts that influenced the angel of death, with Chara manipulating Asriel's speech to suit his/her own goals of ending the timeline to do everything again. As Flowey, (s)he was mostly dormant, but the genocidal tendencies fused with Asriel's own beliefs. During the Genocide route, we're awakening her more and more and drawing her into our soul to fuse with it, suffering the same fate as Asriel. Flowey's thoughts remained corrupted by Chara's however, which is why he never really seems to change during the genocide route.

Anyway, at the end of the fight when we finally save Asriel, we manage to force Chara into a more dormant state that renders her thoughts unable to fuse with Asriel's. Speculation there over.

With what I said about Flowey being able to transform at will, I percieved your 5th paragraph in your first comment that the 6 souls would automatically transform him, my mistake.