Talk:Chara/@comment-35274572-20180525000303/@comment-35700847-20180602213401

"I'm the one who's stating facts and ONLY facts, you're the one who's doing the ignoring here, you need to re-read what you typed. Chara will always be evil no matter what route you take, just because you took the True Pacifist route, doesn't make Chara good, it just means that she didn't get what she wanted."

You're the on ignoring key information in the game and applying outside info to the game. You brought up the "Frisk made Chara remember because ghost's forget their actions when they die!" not me. Chara is not evil in true pacifist, you did not show me any evidence to suggest they wanted a reset, down below you just brought up the player. What do you mean they didn't get what they wanted? Don't even try saying reset because a reset Isn't something that they are implied to have wanted in the first place.

"And you're the one who's misunderstanding, if we're going to be technical, then at the end of the route, Flowey wasn't talking to Chara, but us the players. You need to separate fiction and reality. Let me tell you what I see: I see Frisk as a character that I play in the game, and the True Pacifist and Genocide paths are possible routes that Frisk may take and become either, "The angel who breaks the barrier and frees the monsters, or the angel of death who slaughters them all."

Oh god, not the headcanon idea that there's a seperate entity(the player) that is referenced as a being outside of the game. Flowey is talking to Chara, there is no "player" that actually exists in the game or is referenced as being an entity outside of the game. I need to seperate fiction from reality? You're trying to act as if we're an actual character in the story when we know for a fact that Flowey was talking to Chara. Okay? You see Frisk as a character because they are a character just like every other character in the game. Does that make you an existing entity in the game or something that is actually referenced inside of the game as being outside of the game? No.

"Chara is the evil character in the game who's, "the demon who comes when people call its name."

That's what happens when you play genocide, you don't exactly see any type of demon appear in pacifist. Not to say Chara is innocent either, they tried to start a war before they died. In genocide they are also evil too.

"Now let's talk about points of views: There's the player's point of view, where you see yourself as Frisk and Chara, in other words, Frisk and Chara aren't characters in the game, they don't exist, it's just us the players. Then there's the game's point of view, story mode if you will, where both of these characters exist and they are what I stated above about how I see them."

I think you're looking at this too deeply. This is a game that we are playing, we are separate from the story. Frisk and Chara exist in the game, they are in the story, the story is fictional. There is no two point of views, you can't try to tell me that you see yourself as Frisk and Chara which makes them non-existent when the story establishes them as characters in the game. By that I mean, they have their own personalities and they have their own wants too.

For example, when you try to punch Undyne in her house but you only do 1 damage. That's because Frisk does not want to hurt Undyne, which shows that they are their own character.

"Now if you're looking at them from the player's point of view, then you can't say that Chara isn't good or bad, because there is no Chara and there is no Frisk, it's just you, the player. DON'T mix the two up, otherwise this entire conversation we've been having is pointless.

I thought that you had the same point of view as me, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. But apparently I was wrong."

This is just a game, Frisk and Chara are actual characters in the game. According to the game's backstory Chara existed and was doing a bunch of stuff before you even start the game(Frisk's fall). Frisk shows that they have an actual personality and so does Chara. They exist because they are established as characters in the game.

I don't believe in the idea that the player(me or you) is considered an actual entity in the game that can be referenced or called out on for stuff that happens in the game. You play as Frisk and explore/interact with the world as Frisk.