Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20181123023529/@comment-26006155-20181202024351

(ok, Essay Mode activated!)

Hello Person, I’m glad that you founds at least some of my ideas interesting. Admittedly most of my theories sound very outlandish at first, and far different than the public consensus in many ways, so I’m used to people saying I’m crazy. Thanks for taking the time to read my work so far on the Undertale script.

The story of Asriel and Chara clearly says that Chara planned for Asriel to absorb her soul, and planned to take him over like a puppet to destroy her home village. That after all the kindness Asriel has shown her, she was willing to abandon him and all monsterkind, just to get revenge on her own people for some crime that we’ve yet to learn about. Chara definitely had a soul, but a damaged one, if she was willing to abuse and exploit both of her families in such a dark manner.

While claiming that small lore details must lead to massive plot twists is something that I frequently take flak for, especially in the FNAF fandom, I can’t look at Chara’s horrific actions without seeing a damaged child devoid of compassion. And when I trace my theories through Undertale’s timeline, making this assumption explains so many other things that while it might not satisfy everyone else, I consider this proof that Chara had no compassion. Time will tell if my assumption is off, but that’s the life of a theorist.

I know that Deltarune is an Alternate Universe, so many details are clearly warped or opposite compared to the original game, even while the parallels between Undertale and Deltarune are also very strong. This reminds me of the relation between the story of the FNAF games, and its mirror universe set of companion novels. Scott said that the games and novels do not fit together, and should not be used to solve each other, while also confusingly suggesting that they were both canon. I’ve taken more jabs and barbs from other theorists than I can even remember, comparing and contrasting the games and books, yet I’ve found the parallels between the two to be strong enough that the books serve as a powerful source of inspiration for what ideas to at least look for in the games.

I know that Deltarune will have a different story. Yet even this early, I see things, like Asriel still being around in the Dark World, and Kris repeatedly using a warp that looks like Sans’ door, that show my outlanding theories about Undertale are not quite as impossible as others might suggest. So I mention these details not as a proof, but as a reinforcement of the plausibility of my ideas applying to the original game.

I find myself frequently dealing with, not absolute proof, but the *PROBABILITY* that certain ideas might be correct in my quest to uncover stories. And while these details in Deltarune may not stand as proof on their own, they greatly boost the Probability of my theories about Undertale panning out, to the point where I feel I must at least mention them. And if I can find a beautiful story with a clear cut moral message that emerges from the chaotic haze of details in something like FNAF like a phoenix out of the ashes, with a 99.99% probability of having been deliberately constructed rather than spawned from abject randomness, then I’m willing to bite the bullet and take a chance on this story being real.

I get frequently told that creative, right-brained thinking is worthless in terms of solving scientific problems. And yet the truly great scientists like Albert Einstein lift Imagination as a great virtue, which makes sense since The General Theory of Relativity is the most brilliantly insane bit of out-of-the-box theorizing the world has ever seen, literally rewriting everything we knew about space and time. Humans would not have evolved Right Brains unless this advanced creativity and pattern recognition provided an objective boost to their real world survivability.

Back to Undertale. I realize that my interpretation of Sans’ “death” scene as Frisk dying rather than Sans is very ‘out on a limb’ in terms of theories. But while we don’t see Sans jump into a dimension door on camera, we also don’t see him die on camera either. Chara was clearly wrong about Sans having 1 hit point after he failed to immediately disintegrate after taking the same hit that obliterated King Asgore in one shot.

Did Sans, who seems able to dodge all of Frisk’s attacks, even in his sleep (as if he KNEW exactly when they were coming..?) plan on trolling Frisk by filling his own insides with KETCHUP, just to provide some disturbing imagery after he got hit? Considering the surprise Sans seems to register when the sudden second attack (which Frisk did NOT make) actually hits him, it seems improbable to me that the Ketchup Blood jape was part of the plan. More like this unforeseen attack was proof to Sans that nothing of Frisk was left anymore, no amount of diplomacy would bring him back, and it was time to bail.

Whether or not this theory turns out to be true, I do find this possibility that few have seen to be loaded with Story Potential, and at the very least an interesting tale worthy of being told. If all else fails, I at least try to be entertaining.

I apologize for misspelling “Alphys”, my brain frequently thinks faster than my fingers can type, so typos are a fact of life I’ve learned to deal with. There are probably several of them in this posting already, even though I’m typing this out in Google Docs in anticipation of my own folly. My mother was an English Teacher, so after being reprimanded for misplaced commas and not knowing what a “gerund” is throughout my entire childhood, I consider the Destruction Of The English Language to be a positive good I engage in whenever possible. Sir Winston Churchill once remarked that only a dull person can think of only one way to spell a word, and I subscribe to his inebriated wisdom.

We know a human and monster soul combo is needed to cross the barrier, because that’s what Asriel and Chara had to do. Alyphs tells us that also, and while Alphys may not always be right, Toriel seconds this idea when she berates Asgore as a coward because HE didn’t take the first human soul and go get six others himself.

I suppose it might be possible for a single human to cross the barrier on their own since the monsters had no way of testing this. And Chara might not have wanted to test this idea herself since she hated her village, and later on wanted to try to possess Asriel to gain the power to destroy it herself. But as I pointed out with his talking human head and pioneering work on Determination Extraction research at a time before any of the Six Humans fell, Gaster must have been a human himself. And if he and Sans had accidentally warped into the Underground through some time and space machine, Earthbound-style, they both could have just walked out if only one human soul was required to cross the barrier. Yet Gaster stayed, and supervised the construction of The Core, going to great lengths in various attempts to break the Barrier. So I think the necessity of having both a human and a monster SOUL to cross the barrier is something that still stands.

I didn’t say the Amalgamates weren’t powered by determination, Alphys injected the Fallen Down monsters with tons of the stuff before they fused. I’m saying there’s a huge difference between what happened to the Fallen, and what happened to Undyne, who literally bench pressed The Entire Cast according to Toriel’s endgame phone calls. Stick person fish lady has crazy powers that she definitely didn’t grow up having. The Fallen melted within days, but Undyne persisted for a long time, even after the end of the game, and doesn’t melt unless you pound her like a Sherman Tank.

You actually can harm the amalgamates, Snowflake’s Mom does take damage. They just heal faster than you can damage them. They do eat food, so that’s one way they’re different from ghosts it seems, even if they share shapeshifting abilities. There’s still a lot of mystery surrounding the Amalgamates.

If Gaster’s Determination Research wasn’t aimed at stealing monster SOULs.. Then what was the goal of it? Alphys took Gaster’s plans to make the DE machine, then immediately tried injecting monsters that people presumed were dying the hopes of their souls persisting after death long enough to be collected. Collect enough monster SOULS, and you have the equivalence of the power of the 7th human SOUL, and can break the barrier. Determination research was aimed at collecting SOULs from the beginning.

Alphy’s attempts failed, and never collected a single soul, but not because the theory was wrong, but because someone else had already used this technique to steal the SOULs from the Fallen, which is how they got into this state to begin with. While saying the Fallen were victims of a Monster Soul Thief is certainly a more complex explanation than Old Age or Illness, it does fit the fragments of lore more closely, and certainly provides a much more interesting story. Gaster is the only creature other than Alphys with the knowledge and capability to steal monster souls, so unless you can find me another Ghost Of A Human Mad Scientist, I’m sticking to my theory that the soul thief is him.

I admit my theory that Gaster paid Muffet to collect Frisk’s SOUL isn’t the strongest part of my work. Mettaton did pay the mercs in The Core to do the same thing, and Mettaton does have some shapeshifting abilities. However.. Mettaton really only has two forms, three if you count EX-mode with the wings, and he’s the mostly highly recognizable personality in The Underground. Mettaton debuted his Sexy Form when Frisk hit the switch on his back, before then he was a rectangular box with arms and a unicycle wheel instead of legs. Muffet says her mysterious patron had a winning smile, something that Mettaton physically didn’t have at this time.

Also keep in mind that if The Shade of Gaster is our mysterious Monster Soul Thief, another story possibility exists. That Gaster, having both a human soul and several monster souls by this point, could have been making his way in and out of the Barrier at will this WHOLE TIME. He could have had business and dealing with the human world above the monsters for DECADES before they emerged, and who knows what machinations he might have put in place during that time?

The monsters might consider themselves free.. Only to walk into another trap.

The story potential of Gaster being a monster soul thief is off the scale, and does fit with the well hidden lore of Undertale. It certainly puts him in the position of an ultimate threat, something worthy of all the mystique that’s been building up around Doctor Ando.. Gaster.. all this time.

Ok, Essay Mode’s done for today :)