Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20200107155350/@comment-32182236-20200113152826

The Argument is weaker now, and probably should be changed. But there must still be some reason that "You Won" doesn't appear at the end of Boss Fights, even if it's no longer limited only to what happens to Sans.

But it can no longer mean we didn't win, which is your entire case. You can't use something as evidence if that something doesn't actually lead anywhere. Otherwise it just wastes space.

But Ambassador goes much further than that: Instead of viewing it as weaker, he jumps forwards to calling it flat-out fake, a statement that itself is making assumptions because it doesn't account for the difference with Boss Fights compared to regular ones.

I said it's not real evidence. That can mean two things:

1-It's fake

2-It's not evidence.

I meant the second interpretation.

Using it as evidence for something it's not.. That's the fake part. There's a real phenomena, but assuming it means we didn't win is now no longer allowed. It might be used as evidence for something else, but it no longer helps your case.

If you did have another argument, though, I count that as a "defense", as mentioned earlier. I said if you had a defense, you could keep it in the script.

I said that for a reason.

I wouldn't have said that if I thought that wasn't an option. I'm fine with you coming up with another defense. But your current argument needs to go, as it's invalid.

He then repeats this same accusation several times over with different wording: "ACTUAL" "bad/fake" "discount the whole" "only keep real evidence". As if finding one mistake in my 70-page script is now grounds for throwing out the entire thing.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Yes, if I discount one part of an argument, the rest shatters, because each link relies on the ones before it.

Of course, you're fine starting another argument that doesn't rely on this bad link.

Just fix the bad link, or alter the ones around it so that it doesn't rely on the bad link. Then you don't need to throw out the chain.

This isn't an argument, it's a Charisma Intimidate Check, calculated to cause as much pain as possible. As it is each and every time Ambassador makes an Appeal to Authority fallacy by listing the popularity of ideas as proof that they must be real.

I list it as a reason why you should adress these possibilities instead of just assuming they're false. And since you're making the theory, you have to prove these popular ideas false. They may not be true, and I've discounted many popular arguments just the same, through evidence. If you have arguments against these ideas, go on, present them! (But make sure they're good arguments. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.)

For instance, when you attacked Premise 4 in my argument for the narrator theory, I didn't say "just because you found a weak point doesn't make my argument false". I defended Premise 4. And you can defend the link that I said it bad, or devise a new argument that doesn't rely on this assumption.

And rarely is any of my proof accepted, no matter how deep I dig and how careful I am.

Because the proof has a flaw. Once you rule out the other options, I do end up accepting it. Like I did wth the Waterfall statue. But once you start getting into the points where we leave direct logic and into trying to get the intention of the author, and Story Potential, yes, I don't take that as good proof.

I will rework the script based on the new knowledge that the absense of "You Won" after boss fights. One more tweak and revision in the constant evolution of my scripts that has been going on for years now.

That's all I asked you to do. I said remove the You Won argument (or defend it), not get rid of your theory!

But I have no intention of backing off from the theory that Frisk dies rather than Sans.

Then you better have a good argument. As so far, the idea of Sans dying is still the most probable, given our EXP gain, and the fact that we still walk around in Frisk's body post-Sans. And Sans was literally the guy we attacked. And Frisk's SOUL never shattered.