Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190617222636/@comment-26006155-20190722234242

It's true that puzzles existed on both sides of the door. Toriel says the puzzles are "Ancient fusions between diversions and doorkeys". But if she knew we were coming, and resolved to test us.. she might have armed a few before we arrived.

The puzzles could have been made by the pre-Asgore civilization, too.

The Ruins Door itself might also be from The Ancient Civilization, the ones that made the Waterfall Glyphs and the Waterfall Statue.

It's sort of bold to say that the monsters weren't studying human garbage before Gaster arrived. They had to know about the garbage dump since it was on the way to the Ruins. And while the Ruins Door acted like a castle keep, I'd be very surprised if monsters didn't venture out to explore the surrounding areas.

Specifically, when Gaster arrived, the monsters no longer became afraid of humans. They had to realize they had a One Up on human civilization somehow. And knowing that Gaster had better tech than the surface would certainly help reduce their fear.

Something happened between the start of 201X, when the Capital was at The Ruins, and Chara's arrival at the End of 201X, when the Capital was at New Home, that caused the migration. If it wasn't Gaster's arrival that caused the monsters to no longer fear humans, we need another big, powerful explainataion for this. And it can't be from Chara because New Home was already established when she arrived.

Whether Asriel was vacationing in The Ruins or not when Chara fell, once Chara fell Asriel took her to New Home without even building a bed in the Ruins. So the important element is that New Home was the Capital at the time.

A lingering question I have about the war is: Why didn't the humans just wipe out the monsters?

The Waterfall Glyphs talk about how the humans performed a sneak attack with overwhelming force. The monsters really didn't have a chance. It could have ended right there.

... although that seems to clash with the account at the beginning of the game where the war dragged on for a long time before the Barrier was cast. And the monsters, who sounded peaceful before, now had a well-developed martial system.

Another reason I'm starting to believe the Waterfall Glyphs pre-date Asgore's civilization, and are talking about a completely different war.

Gerson was quite old by the time of Asgore's human-hunting declaration. And the exact method The Six died from is still a bit of a mystery. It seems save to assume that Asgore's monsters killed them all... but assumations are dangerous things in a mystery.

This is why I perked my ears when Toriel didn't say "Six humans have gone before you" at the beginning. What if there were more, but one fell into the waterfall abyss? Or someone other than Asgore got one?

Have to keep watch for possibilities.

While there probably was a way to get from The Underground Entrance to the floor before The Core was built, rapelling line, ladder, or whatever, Frisk doesn't find any alternative method of getting to Asgore's Castle, other than going through The Core.

The point is linking the establishment of The Core to New Home for building the timeline.

Municipal fountains can be generic. But memorial fountains are build to the memory of something or someone. And the game makes sure we know that Mettaton was not an original part of this fountain. The MTT memorial fountain's creation in mid 201X is definitely an important clue.

And we've never been given any names among the Royal Guard that would make one worthy of such a fountain. Or knowledge that any of them died at this period of time.

Gaster is still the #1 candidate.

There were definitely no flowers under Chara when she fell. Or in the world above in our brief view of it. If "The End of 201X" isn't exactly December 31st, it's definitely sometime in Winter.