Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31981697-20170722123329/@comment-32182236-20170805224718

1)I explain in 4.4 what my actual theory on the SOUL is. The body itself is separate from the SOUL, but your inventory, including your weapons and armor, are also culminated into your SOUL. Your body probably simply isn't part of your "being"-If you switch bodies with someone, but ALSO switch all your stuff back, so that you're in the same position as you once were, just with a new look.. What's really changed? You have the same stats (It's your SOUL that's unclean if you've killed someone), the same armor..

1.1)And I pointed out the flaws in the example. Sure, we could go fix PART of the problem by saying the human gave the pan to another monster who wanted it.. Like maybe Undyne..? But, we're just shifting the problem. Now we need to explain why the MONSTERS dropped it where it is. We're trying to explain how the items got to the spots that we see them in the game. Catty and Bratty allows us to backtrack a bit, with the yellow human's items originally being dropped in the dump, so we need to use THAT as a reference point for Yellow.

2)That's why they're called The Ruins. The buildings we see in Snowdin Town are actually quite modern, and Waterfall? Well.. It doesn't have any buildings other than the Temmie Shop. I guess monsters just visit and patrol the area, instead of living there. Except for Temmie! (That could explain why Undyne is literally the only Royal Guard member in the entirety of Waterfall. And Waterfall's right there in the middle of Snowdin and Hotland, so Undyne could hpcharge right on to whatever human was found! Even if she got it from a skeleton, and she's a fish lady. That's monster politics for ya!

2.1)The Mages would have been able to massively create a technological revolution if that were the case! The very fact that they were able to make the circutry for lasers AT ALL, and make so many of them this way just shows how superior their technology is! Also, what about literally rearranging the CORE?

Maybe vertically stretch Frisk's sprite around.. 1.6x? And horizontally by 1.1x? Basically, just resize the sprites so that they look like adult-size.

3)Chara trusts you as their partner from the VERY beginning of the game-Otherwise they wouldn't be narrating to you! So apparently you're already friendly to them even though you're a human. Yeah, this isn't the Chara we know.

Oh, and you CAN do that. It's called quitting and resetting. And DON'T say that Chara won't remember the reset-Chara remember your resets-They even remember a TRUE reset-Even that won't stop the Post-Geno Pacifist Ending, and Chara will still say the dialouge that occurs if you do the route more than once.

3.01)Then what about the next time they start speaking again? What about when you kill Papyrus? Undyne, who the narrator supposedly adores enough to call a "true heroine"? What about the first Froggit, since that's when you've first established "I will be KILLING the monsters"?

3.02)It just shows that Chara can and WILL scold us if we wrong them. And yes, it is idiotic of Frisk to do that in said case, and I'd probably give similar if not the SAME narration to Frisk. That point alone? Pretty much useless. But we've established that Chara can and will scold us, meaning the times that they DON'T scold us when we do bad deeds are actually significant, instead of just "Chara can't scold you." Yes they can. And they do.

3.03)But WHY?! WHY do they want to help us, a genocidal murderer?! We're just proving to Chara how evil certain humans can be-And they side WITH us?! Why aren't they trying to STOP us?! And Chara explains what they mean. You've reached the absolute because there's nothing left in this world. So, they want to erase the now pointless world, and CLAIM they want to move on to the next with you. But that statement is a flat-out lie, that's not what they want. They want your SOUL.

3.04) You didn't press the FIGHT button. You press Z to advance dialouge in certain scenarios. Check out this Nochocolate theory that explains why Chara IS the one who killed Flowey. And without our permission either! http://nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/145625412741/chara-kills-flowey-without-your-permission

3.05:Except perverted sentimentality is actually the desire to bring the world back. It's when you say you do NOT wish to erase the world that they say "This is the feeling I spoke of." Here's ANOTHER nocholocate post that explains what I'm saying: http://nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/142094787305/perverted-sentimentality

Oh, and by the way, they're killing their own loved ones AGAIN by messing up your pacifist ending.

3.1)It was to the heckle comment. Here's your quote, following by my (repeated) response:

"Chara assumed you said something different from what you actually said." - Exactly. Chara thought that Frisk said something horrible. But then realized they didn't. And the definition of heckle is to harass USING questions. "Why are you even alive?" is a pretty harsh question in my opinion. Yes, but the first sentence isn't. And Chara assumed you said both of them.

3.2)That's just an added assumption. "But it's not funny" just means that-It's not funny. They aren't scolding you for laughing, they aren't saying "don't laugh", they're just commenting that you luaghed at a situation that isn't funny! Why? Well, you could be liaghing to cope with pain. And of course you're not crying, but you might be pretty close.

Where did the idea that the 17th entry was the FINAL entry come from? It seems like just a normal experiment, not necessarly the one Gaster fell into! We don't really know too much about Gaster. We also don't know too much about Sans... Where we take this speculation, I don't know.

Really though, all Sans has to do is just make sure no light gets in Frisk's eyes. Whether it be altering the path of light, blocking it out.. Anything that could prevent Frisk from seeing.

4.01)Every time Sans teleports, there's nobody watching. We're the only one who even knows about Sans' hotdog station, and Undyne stops by Sans' first Hotland station.. for what? We don't really know. But Undyne certainly wasn't there when Sans teleported. (Maybe Undyne was speaking to Sans, questioning WHERE THAT STATION CAME FROM?!)

Also, when I said Sans was exploiting the turn-based mechanics, I used that as evidence he was AWARE of it-Otherwise he wouldn't be exploiting it!

4.1A)"Name the fallen human". Not "Name yourself" or "Name the main character" or "Name the hero"(okay, that last one isn't really justified when you could be the villain)

It would be weird anyways if we're anything BUT Chara. Sure, we named Chara, but we have PLENTY of evidence that we're not Chara. Flowey was speaking to Chara, and that's it. No further meaning-It only confirms something I've already speculated-Frisk and Chara share the power to SAVE and LOAD. Do note that Chara is with us for the duration of the game-It would make sense for Flowey to stare at us. Chara's in the same general direction as we are. And whether Frisk is ACTUALLY acting against our wishes is a point of debate here. You can use it as an explanation for your theory, but not as evidence against another-I still stand that we are roleplaying Frisk, and we ARE their character. And the player ISN'T their own separate entity in the story. I use "we" and "Frisk" interchangably for a reason. They're one and the same story-wise. Because we're roleplaying Frisk.

If we were just carrying out their actions that are already predetermined, there wouldn't BE multiple routes. We choose which way Frisk goes. We roleplay it.

4.1B)Of course! I stated earlier that Asgore didn't want to fight any of the humans! Frisk is no exception! He just knew he had to, and destroyed the MERCY button to stop Frisk from being able to convince the fight to end. Because they literally don't have the option to. He wants the battle to end with honor and hope to his name, and yet he ALSO doesn't want to "win", because of what "winning" actually means. So he's hoping to lose. And hey, nobody'll notice the fight button Asgore failed to destroy! The monsters watching the MERCY button shatter will only see Asgore putting down that trident triumphantly.

Sans told him about the HUD, and taught Asgore to memorize the position of the buttons. Asgore can't SEE the MERCY button, but he knows where it is because of Sans. And Sans knows about it either by carefully examining the strangeness of Frisk's actions (there's probably at least SOME subtle signs, like "Why is literally no monster able to dodge attacks",) or it was Gaster who discovered it.

4.2)She never mentioned it being a fair fight. She just said she gave you a spear to block the attack with. Besides, the green human couldn't have made it to Hotland with a green SOUL this way! (You can't move in a green SOUL. Wait, doesn't that better fit light-blue than kindness? Seriously, though, how far could you get in Undertale without moving your SOUL? Like, at all. Not even to dodge attacks. You can't run away either. That's part of having a green soul! (Exceptions:Blue, Purple, and Yellow SOUL modes. That is, if you even get that far! Undyne too, as she switches between green and red, so she could apply red to you. Besides, if I didn't make Undyne an exception, I'd make it unwinnable by design. Why? Read on!) Also, you're supposed to be the trait of kindness, so.. You'll have to spare every monster. I'm sure you wouldn't be able to get past even the Ruins this way. (Well, that would explain why the cyan human's stuff was found in the Ruins.)) Part of having a green SOUL mode is having a shield around it.

4.3-He can't. Monsters can't. The only reason why Sans can is the same reason why he knows about the HUD in the first place. And I would be agreeing with you about Sans knowing about the code, if there was actual evidence of this, and it didn't raise so many problems! (Once again, who not set your HP to 0? Why not just bring Papyrus back to life and make the two brothers invincible? Once you can alter the code of the game itself, you're basically like a god in that world.)

I would agree with Flowey referencing the Youtubers, except that "someone" is more simply explained if that "someone" is actually Chara. I mean, they're watching all this right now!

Because Undertale CAN be explained in a logical and consistent matter-It's not a nonsense in that sense. The only real "nonsense" is magic existing and SAVING and LOADing, but at least it's self-consistent. And any work where all the rules are self-consistent CAN be theorized on. Works that AREN'T like that? ...Well, THEN we can dismiss them as nonsense and go back to our previous work. But hey, that's what patches are for! In v1.000, Papyrus was always in the cutscene where we first see Undyne. That was an actual mistake that could have been evidence of the world being a bunch of code. But, it was fixed in v1.001, along with lots of other glitches. If there are mistakes in Undertale, Toby WILL fix it in a patch. (Or in the Playstation console release.)

201X is actually a hint that it's NOT our world. The calendar flat-out says "201X", instead of giving an actual year. Chara could EASILY narrate the actual year.

In Pokemon, the HUD isn't actually mentioned by other characters and abused like so. (Closest you get is mentioning leveling your Pokemon up and making them strong, but levels exist in the TV show as well! In the episode "The School of Hard Knocks", levels are explicitly mentioned-The exact level at which Pidgey evolves, to be more precise.) The characters Undertale flat-out mention and ABUSE these mechanics, so they must be canon- Otherwise the characters wouldn't be able to abuse it! You can't use things that don't actually exist, after all! And yes, when I started Undertale, I too thought it was only meant to aid us. But oh my, did Sans prove me wrong... (I thought SAVING and LOADING weren't canon either-Just like in every other game I've seen ever then.) We can't ignore the evidence. Sans proves that it's canon.

HUD is a law in of itself, and it IS acknolwedged. Three times. Once with Asgore destroying the Mercy button, once with Sans attacking you THROUGH the HUD, and once with abusing the fact that FIGHTs are turn-based. What does Sans' "special attack" represent in the real world? Why can't we fight if we can just use a weapon? Why CAN we fight when we push the box and move our SOUL to the FIGHT button, if we can't fight anytime else?

Also, the human SOUL leaving after a human dies does NOT mean that a SOUL leaving before then MAKES a human die. Remember, Flowey can live on without a SOUL just fine! Though, when the tombs are open in the True Pacifist Ending, they're empty. Where are the bodies?! Did the humans come back to life?! If they did, that would mean when the SOUL goes back inside Frisk, they would also return to life.

Why doesn't Sans attack your body? Because that's not how you can deal damage. You MUST deal damage to the SOUL to have any effect. When you're filled with determination, you can heal yourself. Usually, your SOUL is inside of your body, so damaging the body would damage the SOUL too. But here, the damage would be separate from your SOUL. No effect. :3

5)Or Frisk's way of seeing a battle.

The barrier prevents LIGHT from reaching Frisk's eyes. Never said anying about sound or ears. :3 Also, the HUD was triggered due to the magic, before it would affect Frisk. Therefore, Frisk would rhesr the HUD itself, as it preceeds the blindness, though probably by a frame, or even on the SAME frame. Is there a way to accurately measure the specific frame the screen goes black and when we hear the sound? It could be a test to see if this guess is plausible. If it's not, well still, never said that barrier blocked out SOUND.

You have to know what it is to use it. And Sans DOES know how he teleports-It's a kind of magic. No meta-ness there.

6)And why not? We can play with Asriel on the Surface? What, we've reached the absolute? No we haven't! There's still the matter of getting humans to accept monsters into their society and fighting the imminent threat of a SOUL absorption. Knowing how Flowey plays the villian in this game, Frisk could be trying to stop his plans of taking a human's SOUL! And the best part? They'll do it. Because they want things to be happy. If there wasn't evidence against this simpler explanation, I'd go with it. But there are things this fails to explain. Occam's Razor only applies when all else is equal. Here, we have an explanation that actually explains things in a more accurate way. It's more of a matter of Newtonian vs Einstien physics, because here, the simpler explanation doesn't account for everything. And I'll be going with Einstien physics-Accuracy trumps simplicity.

So they did not. Alright then. So, knowing how Frisk had never wanted to kill anyone, why would Asriel go by the assumption that you would kill Asgore and leave?!?!