Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-32182236-20170602170443/@comment-32182236-20180119000109

"Propaganda? To convince, what, the zero humans?"

Hey, the book was written after Chara fell. The monsters knew humans could fall, so... yeah. It was to convince every human who fell, like, for example, Frisk.

"and the description doesn't necessarily mean that those are the only components of monsters souls, nor that a monstet soul would cease to exist without any one of them - but that they're important elements of their soul"

The book explicitly says:"Hope, love, compassion:These are what people say monster SOULs are composed of. But, the true nature of SOUL is unknown. After all, humans have proven that they don't need these things to exist." Of course, not monsters, because oooh, they're puuuure angels that can do no wrong whatsoever.. Perfection.. Yeah... That's not what they are.

And since it explicitly says monster SOULs are literally MADE out of those things, removing one of them would mean the SOUL is no longer a SOUL.

"They WERE livingly peacefully underground, until Asriel was unjustly killed"

If you watched the tapes, you'd know Asriel was planning on KILLING six innocent humans. He absorbed Chara's SOUL with the intent to KILL. That murder wasn't unjust. Asriel attacked them. That kill was self-defense. He shouldn't have gone through with Chara's plan in the first place. His death was HIS fault. (And, partly Chara's..)

"then their king in anger and grief declared the war and they went along with it, probably due to admiration of the king (and we know how good humans can be persuaded to do evil by authority, see Milgram experiment for example),"

The Migram experiment shows that 65% would obey the authority. In the Ungerground, at least 99% of the monsters support killing the humans. The ONLY exceptions are Asgore himself, Mettaton (as you explain, in my previous post I counted him as one of the two), and (possibly) Toriel. (I say possibly because her plan was to cross the barrier with one soul and kill six humans, like Asriel's plan-It could very well be that she too wanted to declare war on the humans, but didn't want to just wait around for seven humans to fall when it's quicker to do it with one, and take the six from the surface)

"Metatton's trying to kill you (after stopping going along with alphys) to stop Asgore doing so, breaking the barrier and restarting the war"

One of the two monsters I mentioned earlier, but make that three if Asgore is to be believed

"Muffet is because she was warned by Metatton about you (probably that you're an evil human, and he also offered money which she needed to rescue her spiders in the ruins)"

Woah woah woah, when was it stated that Mettaton was the one who said Frisk liked to stomp on spiders? When was it stated that Mettaton offered Muffet money? And if it was Mettaton, why? How does he know Muffet won't just send that SOUL to Asgore?

"Sans didn't do anything (whole other issue with him)"

Just because of a promise he made with Toriel. Remember, if he didn't make that promise.. you'd be dead where you stand.

"Papyrus just wanted to capture you"

Still supports Asgore by doing this, since he also wanted to send you to Asgore

"and stops quickly with that too"

Fact still stands he wanted to capture you-It's only after you try to be his friends multiple times (and spare him like 20 times) that he stops it. Even so, he STILL tries to be in the Royal Guard, KNOWING that their job is capturing and KILLING humans!

"and the list goes on - most monsters don't attempt to kill you!"

Nearly all of them do. That's why they attack you. Only in a Genocide Run (and some Neutral runs) are the monsters' actions justified.

"Thus your point about diplomacy not working is moot - monsters wouldn't want one of them to rule the rest through power and force/be cruel/a dictator etc by absorbing a human soul (s)anyways so at least they're agree to separate just to avoid that possibility."

"King ASGORE will let us go. KING Asgore will give us hope. KING Asgore will save us all."

Yeah... They do.

"And besides, it shows a human bias to say their extreme retliation of murdering countless monsters for the (assumed and unsubstantiated) actions of one monster is fine but the monsters overreacting for the murder of their prince is terrible."

Just as I said, Asriel attacked first. Therefore, that was the monsters' own fault, not the humans'. Declaring war because the humans killed an attempted MURDERER is unjust.