Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20160613103837/@comment-26006155-20160615115642

Isthereaplace wrote: BlackfootFerret wrote: Isthereaplace wrote: BlackfootFerret wrote: Isthereaplace wrote: Starscream1998 wrote:

Jillianbrodsky wrote: Everyone wants to make Chara into this absolutely evil being because of the end of the genocide run. In reality, it's Frisk's actions that led Chara to the conclusion of power etc.

But okay, you won't agree with that. It says in the game that monsters can't absorb other monster souls. Humans can't absorb human souls. But flowey absorbed the souls of humans AND monsters. Therefore he is neither.

"ENTRY NUMBER 7

We'll need a vessel to wield the monster SOULs when the time comes.

After all, a monster cannot absorb the SOULs of other monsters.

Just as a human cannot absorb a human SOUL...

So then..." Ironically, I completely agree with your bit on Chara as I subscribe to the narrator Chara theory. Asriel's merge with the monsters was clearly imperfect as they began to influence his mind in a way the 6 human souls never did. I hope you know that the narrator Chara theory includes that Chara and Flowey are soulless, and that is why:

- they are so much unlike in real life

- Flowey-Asriel recognizes Frisk as Chara through their shared emptiness (despite none of them are their former self)

- and are morally corruptable.

Also, it assumes that since their souls were combined, both would have the same fate. So, either both of them has a soul, and Asriel's "don't kill, no matter what" philosophy somehow turned into "kill or be killed", or none of them has, but I still got an answer that Chara has. Well, at least before going on to destroy the world if you ever take that direction, but then again, I haven't seen them pick one up on the way, they still need one in the void, and if we assume being soulless as having no feelings at all and taking a soul as the one giving it becoming soulless, then it is not the player's. Because completely without feelings players wouldn't try to scapegoat and demonize Chara. Flowey mistakenly believes that Frisk is Chara because they look so alike (except for Frisk having two shirt stripes while Chara has one). It's only at the end of the True Pacifist run that Asriel realizes what Frisk has done for him, and knows he isn't Chara because of it. You could also say that Flowey and Chara are morally corruptable, because they both have human souls :)

My theory is that Chara's ghost possesses Frisk more and more with each evil action, making his soul her own, much in the way that Asriel absorbed her soul. Chara is a ghost, neither human nor monster (as Undyne the Undying and Asgore both say), something inhuman, but FLowey says early on after Toriel dies that Firsk has a "stolen soul".

So Flowey has Chara's original human soul, and Chara has Frisk's soul. Basically the Player's soul. Flowey recognizes Frisk as Chara only when they go out of their way to wipe out everyone. He recognizes them, because he knows that Chara, like him, has no soul. It is the soulless behaviour that leads him to this conclusion. Otherwise, Toriel and Asgore should be able to point out the similarities. Toriel doesn't, and on the genocide route, Asgore doesn't either. On the other hand, Flowey doesn't recognize Frisk as Chara if they follow a neutral path, no matter if they have only missed a single monster. It is the machine-like, emotionless behaviour that tips Flowey off, and showing mercy that reminds Asgore of Chara.

Yes, you can. You can also bid bye to Asriel as you would probably like him to come back if you go down that route, because his soul became combined with Chara's.

Yes, I understand your theory. On this wiki "love and bring back Asriel and demonize Chara" theories are a dime a dozen.

I don't agree with that. Chara outright states that Frisk's (or the player's, if you prefer that) soul wasn't theirs.

By "empty inside" Flowey is referring to Chara's lack of compassion, because he acknowledges four lines down that Chara has a soul "...Even more powerful than you and your stolen soul."

Furthermore, Flowey comments on how he and Chara are still "inseperable, after all these years." This is actually a quite LITERAL statement.. Chara's original soul is inside Flowey, they're entirely inseperable. While Chara has Frisk's (our) stolen soul. No, Flowey doesn't say he has a soul. He can feel the presence of a soul. On the pacifist route, Frisk can feel the presence of the lost souls, so it seems in the underground everyone is capable of that. Flowey wants to steal Asgore's collection. When he succeeds, he doesn't suddenly become kind, although having a soul of his own should return him into being Asriel, and he absorbs six, one of which is kindness.

Going a step further, when he steals six human souls and almost every, supposedly loving and compassionate, monster souls, regaining his original form and improving on it, his first action is to try and erase all timelines. Or trying to electrocute, autofire, raygun, starthrow, slice-and-dice, and paralyze someone you identify as your best friend is the sign of compassion? So, Chara doesn't have compassion, because they only destroy the world on genocide, and don't try to murder Frisk in flashy ways?

No, a stolen soul isn't your own. That's why it is stolen. It is someone else's, you just took it, and it gives you power, but not the ability to feel love or compassion, or understand feelings. It gives you determination, which can be harvested from a soul, but having determination only gives "the will to keep living", and "the resolve to change fate", not compassion or love.

As for being inseparable: Asriel and Chara were supposed to be best friends. Forever. BFFs tend to be inseparable for most of their waking hours. Chara and Asriel even shared a room and a family, and were like siblings. If Flowey could feel the presence of Chara, he would recognize them on all routes, at the same time, and wouldn't have to guess. Because "right?", with a question mark, usually means seeking confirmation on what you think is a fair guess, and Flowey gets to this conclusion much later on the pacifist route.

If you want to save Asriel, there is a fair guess where his and Chara's combined soul is, and since monsters are leaving the underground, they probably won't need it. Perhaps there are different degress to absorbing a soul, particularly if you're very close to someone? Flowey can feel the souls he stole from the humans and the monsters, and the don't immediately make him feel compassion, and the souls can escape, never truly becoming part of him. But perhaps Chara's soul is closer to him than anyone, so close that doesn't recognize it as foreign.

It's only when Frisk tries to save the 7th soul inside Asriel that Asriel suddenly is surpised, wondering what's happening, and sudden begins to feel compassion entering him again. So this 7th soul is an intristic part of Asriel, while the others are being borrowed. Either it's his, or it's Chara's. And his soul would been overflowing with compassion. So it has to be Chara's.