Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-27136653-20180823074052

"Toriel kind of exposes that change in decision as fake. I'm with her on this one:If he really wanted to free the monsters, he could have crossed the barrier with one SOUL, and taken six from the surface."

Well that's just called being a coward.

"He DID. He's only keeping up a façade of all this, he actually doesn't want another human to fall, and would rather have everyone stay underground miserable."

Wouldn't no hope imply suicide rather? I wonder what kept him going.

"We have no evidence he did."

I think he did. It fits his character.

"since he actually DOESN'T want to reach the Surface."

I think he does. He's just conflicted on the method. He does want freedom for everyone, but not like this. If he didn't want freedom, he would be actively trying to go against the wishes of the monsters.

"That's too much of a distortion of the original Clam Girl speech."

Well? Are you healthy? :>

"And I would argue that the Pacifist Neutral ending was happier."

y tho

"No humans at all. Maybe the monsters won the war this time around."

As if Toriel or Asgore let that happen... or Frisk for that matter.

"The ones who encounter you through a FIGHT want to kill you."

Why do you keep saying that? You know it's a nonsense, what would even be their motive for this?

"They didn't LET you leave, you escaped the battle."

I know that.

"What makes Papyrus, of all monsters, the exception?"

He's an exception in pretty much anything.

"They'd find out otherwise when they notice your HP bar dropping"

And stop? Well tell me, why would they keep attacking you on subsequent encounters after you spared them? We know it's the same monsters, since you can keep encountering monsters even after there's only one left. You showed them mercy, even helped them, and they repay you with death. I don't think it's like that. And I don't think they noticed your soul dropping in HP, probably because they've never seen a human soul before? Who knows.

"Looks like we found something that I haven't explained in the game yet."

Maybe you need DT to get offended.

"Undertale's actually against this line of thinking. The monsters remember what happened in previous timelines, at least somewhat.. Flowey recalls exactly what happens, and calls you out for sparing Toriel after killing her."

Good thing the others ONLY recall their friendships with us and nothing else. Practically, it doesn't matter. It matters with Flowey, but no one else.

"He wants you to reach all the endings so that he can call you out on killing everyone.. Because that's what you do in an RPG."

He merely knew you would be tempted to do that, so he prepared for the occassion. But nowhere in the game does any character give you the hint to attempt this route. Maybe Gerson, but I seriously doubt he's the reason the players did this run.

''>"Love, hope, compassion. This is what people say monster* SOULs are made of. But the absolute nature of SOUL** is unknown. After all, humans*** have proven that they don't need these things to exist." -Librarby (Also in the link)''

Implying the underlying nature that is common for all types of souls is unknown. The only thing known are the differences between the two races. It's just the reason for those differences that is unknown.

Do you know why I think the books speak absolute truth? Because we never discover their author, which already transforms them into a kind of lore. And then, if any of them were false, that would kinda make them pointless from a meta POV, don't you think? Why would Toby put them in, only to hide in a complex reason as for why they're false somewhere in the game? The intro gives us starting info that is meant to be broken. I can understand that. But I don't see any obvious hints that the books are ever supposed to get challenged.

If something the books speak of contradicts them, rather than disregarding the books, I look for an explanation of the contradiction. If something were to challenge the nature of the books themselves, such as Alphys commenting they've been scribbled by some teens who were coming out of personal life experiences (you can imagine what kind of deep experience that was, after all, teenagers are the deepest philosophers of them all, everyone knows that /s), I would probably start disregarding them too.