Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-27136653-20180724092931

Thereal1x1x1x1 wrote: Tsskyx wrote: Thereal1x1x1x1 wrote: Tsskyx wrote: Thereal1x1x1x1 wrote: Rimiad wrote: Upon inspection, I believe it's extremely likely that the Red soul's trait to be determination.



When looking at determination, we typically apply it's definition as "the will to go on", or "the will to see something through to an end", but there is one more VERY IMPORTANT definition for this term.  "Self Determination"  is synonymous with "Free will", or in other words, the ability to make decisions & act freely according to one's will. It's the " Freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention". This makes sense, seeing as the RED soul-type is the only one that allows the soul to move freely in all directions, make choices (the soul is red when selecting Fight, Act, Item, Mercy, etc.), and the only soul -type that has the ability to sprout legs and book-it (Flee). The red soul is all about making choices & moving freely. 



 It is true that Alphys extracted Determination from each of the human souls, meaning each human soul would have some amount of "determination", but couldn't the same be true for each of the other soul traits? Each human soul should posess varying amounts of each of these traits, but each individual soul could have an abundance of one trait in particular.



This is where it gets interesting.

We all know that an immense amount of determination begets the ability to SAVE, the power to force even [time] to bend to the user's free will. If this is the case, Chara, who's soul is red, should have had the ability to save as well, right? It's clear that this is not the case, because those with the ability to save are literally immortal. There would be no possible way that Chara's plot to cross the barrier would have ended in failure, as well as the death of both Chara and Asriel. As determined as Chara may have been, their Red soul simply did not have enough determination to do such a thing.



So why is it that Frisk, who's soul is also red has the ability to save, while Chara could not?



To answer that, first take note of the fact that '''manipulating time with determination alone is an anomaly, even in the universe of undertale. '''The reason why Flowey had the ability to SAVE could have been because Flowey was injected with an unnatural amount of determination (possibly as much as 6 human souls worth, give or take). It could be this overabundance of determination allows the host to assert will over other things that transcend physicality, like time, for example.

The quality of determination to allow a user to assert their will does not only appear in this form, though.

 Chara has enough determination to assert their will over others to the point of posession (this happens to both Asriel AND Frisk). Chara, the RED soul, is the only character that has the ability to possess another living being, which seems to also imbue the possessed with Chara's abundance of determination as well. As a matter of fact, it's this same abundance of  determination  that allows Chara to persist, even after death, even after their soul was shattered. When Frisk re-awakened Chara and was subsequently posessed by the Determination that outlived both Chara's body and soul, Frisk posessed the determination of two red SOULS (which seems to be even more than what was present in all of the other 6 human souls combined), allowing Frisk to SAVE. If the player decides to go down the Genocide route, asserting their will over the lives of all other monsters in the Underground, this determination eventually grows to the point where Chara is able to assert their own free will over the entirety of the physical world (destruction of the world at the end of a genocide run), as well as the entirety of all other timelines (Chara's persistence in subsequent runs, including pacifist runs).



<p style="font-weight:normal;">From a gameplay standpoint, this could also be the reason why we, the player, are only able to assume control over Frisk & Chara. The player controling the player-character could represent the player-character's determination.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Although it is never explicitly stated, it all seems to check out. What do you think?

1.look it up

2.the red soul is the soul of determination There's no such thing as a "soul of determination".

Also, SparkOfTheAbsolute, did you mean "head canon?" Because I felt like you were describing just that. OH THEN DOES THE SOUL OF JUSTICE NOT EXIST Excuse me what? :) this https://www.google.com/search?q=the+soul+of+justice+undertale&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-4rb3tbfcAhUOMd8KHYIvBvwQsAQIJw&biw=1920&bih=1012 Lolwut? :DDD