Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-33883848-20180705120112

Exactly. The Genocide Route has a counterexample, and that's what matters. So what if it's not in the other routes? The mechanics don't just suddenly change just because we decided to kill everybody. Red text would work in the other routes the same way they would work in Genocide. Therefore, the red text here would be to describe something they feel strongly about as well, just like in the Genocide Route, and how the other characters can use red text outside of the Genocide Route, like when Toriel refers to Asgore before her fight. You don't really make a good case here."

Listen are you are really dumb??didnt you read what i wrote??I CLEARLY said that the NARRATOR only use red text during the ball game in the pacifist run and in the neutral run,and in the genocide run they colour whole sentemces in red not just words which means that there's no reason for them to specifically use red text for "hole"word and not the full line. Durimg the ball game the the colour used is related to a trait,which means that in red soul case too.Sure characters use red text in the game such as Sans for "LOVE"WORD but they also use yellow text such as for Flowey but in the ball game its specifically related to the traits and the hole is part of the ball game.Also theres no reson to believe that the lines are written in the flags because we cant see any writing on it ,and in fact in the game every time something is written on something its indicated.Which implies that the narrator is the one who use different colours in the BALL GAME to refers to the traits.

"Yes, that's correct. That implies the red trait has something to with using the six other traits."

Which means that determination IS NOT the red trait because in this case the text for the red flag would say "By not giving up and keeping your will to live on you get your victory"instead of that the red use all of the traits.Question where your proofs that red is determination?What do you try to proove at ALLL?Your just a troll you contradit people just to contradict

"Only what the game actually says, and what can be derived FROM that, should be considered canon. If we start going outside the game, well, that's where the idea of Chara posessing the player, and making them do Genocide comes from."

Kindness use care and concern to win at the ball game Bravery use fists to overcome obstacles Patience is wait until they are sure that the ball will enter in the hole Perseverance despite bring trapped take notes and get the ball into the hole Red soul use all the traits to get the soul into the hole So what personality trait Frisk can have if the tactics used are related to the personality trait?Its has more basis than "red is determimation"headcanon

" It IS implied that we're far from humanity, and it's CONFIRMED that Frisk still has this power, since, well, we can True Reset."

I know both of it but what does in THE GAME proove that those two things are related?Nothing?Yeah pretty much

"That was solely because of thier red trait, and the gravity of the situation they were in, boosting their DT, like how Undyne's DT was boosted when she realized that younwere a threat to monsterkind and mankind alike. Naturally, they can't even beat Omega Flowey in DT. And there's other red-souled humans out there."

Well when they are in the underground they are fused with Chara.And the fact that they boost their determination doesnt mean that their trait is determination.Frisk also is implied to have a strong feeling of hope in their eyes but that doest mean that their trait is hope,Frisk is implied to always be honnest with themself by Sans ,the mirrors but that doesnt mean that sincerity is their trait.The only reason why they are so determined during Asriel fight is because this time their friends are in danger

"They failed to consider the possibility that the Barrier could be further out than that. Room 2 is where we meet Asgore, but we don't see the grass anywhere. Not only that, the layout doesn't match-We're supposed to have a short hallway down, but the SOUL containers' have a long horizontal line. Omega Flowey had nothing to do with this, because he only appears once per reset, but we're in the same Room 2, with the same invisible wall later on. Not only that, the invisible wall CAN'T be the Barrier, because anything can enter through the barrier:That would include us! ..Though, we'd be trapped. If Chara had to do with us crossing, then why couldn't we cross the Barrier earlier, and why can't we just go back and forth through the Barrier wall here? Chara's still with us, after all, because they say your adventure will be over if you go through the door!"

About what do you talking about ??Stop to confuse me just to say something against me.Its clearly indicated by Asgore that the white thing is the barrier what is outside is no longer the barrier. And when you leave the purple door in the neutral run,you get the surface as proven by the pacifist run ,something Frisk does in neutral run after crossing the barrier during photoshop Flowey fight.So either read the link i send cleverely or just play the game.And i disagree with the fact that you cant return to the underground in the neutral run because of the barrier,as everyone can enter.It's seems like you can't return to the other side of the barrier in the neutral run because it's a game mechanism,you can do it in the pacifist run because Toby wanted us to explore the underground

"Chara has no soul power, soul power can only be derived from souls"

How it's related with my points??Here what Alphys says "I lied to you, to cross the barrier is at least requires a monster and human soul"Note that she says that "it at least"requires a human and monster soul which means there's others possibilities. Chara's essence is also literally fused with Frisk's soul making them stronger,even Flowey proove it "More powerful than YOU AND your stolen soul".In fact when an essence is bounded with a soul is make this soul stronger

"You don't need a SOUL to come back to life. Chara would have no reason to make that connection."

In Chara's case, they required a red soul (the same one they had)to come back, that's why they only bounded with Frisk not with any other human.So in this case it's logical why they say that they required Frisk's soul to come back

"No, they give us a memory, to get US to stay determined. It says Chara and not Frisk, because it's CHARA'S memories, they can't just change the memory to say Frisk!"

Again if Chara didn't have any will to live on they would not use their memories to keep Frisk alive.Or either they doesnt care about themself at all but about Frisk and use their memories to keep alive specifically Frisk.So what do you choose?Also Asgore says to Chara to stay determined not Frisk.So why would they use those memories to keep Frisk alive?

"Then why are they invisible?"

WHAT THE HELL???!!Do you ever played this game?!!!Did you ever watch any lets play????No really you should not discuss about the game but go to read comics and aus about Undertale because Okay i keep my calm and will try to explain since you are new in this fandom:Chara is literally in Frisk body ,that why Frisk receive their memories when they sleep,that why Chara says "its me Chara"when you check the mirror in the genocide run,that why you have the battle interface with their name and that why you share the same stats

"..We're the ones in control of our body. Chara doesn't choose to fight or MERCY, we do, while all they can do is watch from the sideline. They say YOU healed HP, not that they did. You play the role of Frisk, not Chara:This isn't another case of Chasriel. Not only that, when they DO gain enough power, from YOU killing everyone, they BECOME physical, to speak to you."

But...it has my point has NOTHING to do with with the who you control ....please just stop ,stop to waste our both times.....

"I've always said it was a memory! That's never changed!"

Before i claimimg that the fact Chara revive Frisk and themself proove that that Chara has their own determination,you claimed that Chara revived Frisk to keep themself alive.

"Flowey has physical matter. Chara DOESN'T."

PLEASE JUST LEAVE YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO HERE

"Frisk overtook Flowey's determination before that. It's right when they fell undeground, as they can reset, load, all of that from the start of the game. Flowey even has something to say if you close the game during his speech."

I talked about the others fallen childreen not Frisk,who had this power

"It'd be 100 times either way."

If monstres really were that attached to the money then they would not allow Frisk to gain 20 gold every time they get the red flag

"the first flag revealed what the six traits were named. We have no reason to learn that again, and we want to know what the red trait actually means, not just one piece of it."

The "try as you might you continue to be yourself "doenst say anything about red trait just that Frisk used the tactics that corresponds to themself twice.And i dont see why Toby fox would ever replaced the first message with this one,if its not because my point about the personality development is right

"I meant the GAME."

Yeah but i dont think that Toby Fox didnt read any wikipedia page or something before creating this trait.Also yes any host of integrity trait has an original style but ref soul hosts can have the same style(for example the others red soul hosts can a personality that mix all of the 6 traits)

""Hopping and twirling, your original style pulled you through"

Blue is original style as well."

Because blue is intergrity(purple is perseverance,yellow is justice,orange is bravery,light blue(sorry i dont know how this colour is called) is patience,green is kindness)

"During the ball game, the colors either were just that:The colors (the color of the flag displayed was colored in that color), or WERE the traits-The word "kindness" was green, for example. So, "Ball Game", by that reasoning, would actually BE the red trait.. Which it's not, because of the second red flag. In that sense, it just meant something was important. The real red trait is the second red flag."

The real red trait is the first flag ,the second flag only says that Frik once again used the tactics that corresponds to themself to win.The whole ball game associate colours with traits,so "ball game"is associated with Frisk trait,perhaps its written in red because the whole ball game was about Frisk developing their own personality trait

"You don't have to get the red flag at all, though. There's no reason to link the game to developing personalities, any more than discovering it".

I alredy said that during the ball game the whole personality thing was just a game,its wasnt real.That why you doesnt have to play the ball game.The ball game its likely a methaphor of the undertale game itsself

"You said colored text refers to the trait of said color. Pink text exists, as I showed. By this line of reasoning, there must exist a pink trait. Even though we both know there isn't."

1.I never saw anyone using pink text in the game though i can be wrong but give me an instance in the game which proove it 2.I said again and again that the colours are related to traits only during the ball game not the game

Ps:I dont stated it before but i dont think that the physical matter has something to do with the ability to keep determination.After all humans souls have very much determination because they are very powerfull,so powerfull that a single human soul is equal to the souls of all the monsters but human souls arent physical,their bodies are .So i think that the reason why monsters melt with too much determination because their bodies are a fusion beetwen a big ammount of magical matter and a little physical matter,to handdle too much determination without melting they have to have less magical matter and more physical matter