Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31981697-20170722123329/@comment-32182236-20170903123820

1)He probably wanted it to be a suprise. "Did you REALLY think it was over?" And both transforming into hyperdeath and his "true" regular form both required the equivelent of seven human SOULS. So strangely enough, they somehow require the exact SAME amount of power! So, Asriel could switch between the two forms wuite easily,

2)Developers's room-Yes, the dog is a developer. He develops a game in this room. No reason to go meta here yet, we can just assume it's a REGULAR developer.

Similar to Undertale-Similar symbols/logos does not make it the same. There was a Native American basketball team in 1909 that used the swatiska symbol, after all.

Yes, the dog represents Toby. An AVATAR of Toby, with a few differences here and there. Do note that Undertale takes place in the future, so the game that Toby was creating cannot be Undertale. And the room opening up after the credits doesn't mean anything. It just opens when we finish the credits and get the door to open. I don't see how this contradicts the room being canon.

Except that IS how it is in the real world-If evidence comtradicts a theory, then the theory is wrong, unless the evidence can be explained with the theory. While you do have some "evidence", I've pointed out how said evidence would still make sense with my theory, instead of just disregarding it and saying "that's not canon!" The entire rest of the Epilouge is canon, so can the room-We enter the room by opening a door that already existed before the epilouge. There's no reason to assume that things suddenly turn non-canon. If we can do stuff like that, why not just say that Hotland is non-canon so we can make even wilder speculations about Gaster?

As for the Twitter comment, the game specifically said "internet". Not one person's Twitter account. There's you changing the evidence again.

3)That's only using today's MIDI technology. They'll be able to replicate the "greatness" of playing it youself within a century, especially since we'll almkst certainly have the Singularity before the end of the 21st century.

4)What joystick option? Can you show me where it is? And I was talking about the screen WITH the save window, which is, well.. THE MENU. Also the naming screen: https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/undertale/images/d/dd/Naming.gif/revision/latest?cb=20151117165559

No joystick here either.

5)So, you say it was Toby... Guess what? I actually agree with that! (Assuming you mean Toby telling us that through the game) But, that only proves my point. Toby himself is not an unreliable character, he's the one who knows all of the answers after all! Why would HE say that the war was legendary when it really wasn't? Also, they exageratted thehopelessness of the war. It is in fact true that not a single human SOUL was absorbed, and as a result, it could hardly be called a war. But it was still a long battle. Just a hopeless one. But why was it hopeless? Because as I explained, humans have battle initiative-So they couldn't be killed unexpectedly like that. Why do I say through the gane instead of in some non-canon way? Because Omega Flowey meases with the intro TOO. Yep.

6)So, you would say monsters knowing about the HUD is more believable than them hearing the narrator? What? The evidence suggests that monsters do NOT normally know about the HUD, and that you'd need someone like Sans or Gaster to deduce it, like the curvature of space-time in relativity. Not only that, you would even be suggesting that Aaron saw the HUD, which makes even less sense!

What's wrong with monsters hearing the narrator? Why is that such an unbeliavable claim?

8)When Chara woke up, the system asked us to put in their name. Apparently, Chara's not a part of the system until afterwards, and that's when we have to name them-Even their NAME doesn't seem to exist anymore. Indeed, we can change it as we like, and it will retroactively affect any and all backstory of Chara to fit the new name. We can similarly say that Frisk only became a part of the system when THEY woke up. Do note that the clock freezes when Frisk is asleep-The clock doesn't advance 2 minutes every time you sleep at the inn, and it doesn't advance by a few hours when you sleep for the night at Toriel's.

Alright, let me explain again.

If Chara never fell, then that also means they never met Asriel. Theu monsters never learned that humans can sometimes be nice. There was no human who was "the future of humans and monsters". As a result, when the six humans fall, they fear the humans. The humans all attempt to kill the monsters, and Asgore declares war. They're back to how they were when they feared further attacks by the humans near the start. (Monster History, Part 1) The Ruins were never closed off until Toriel left in the original timeline, so Toriel couldn't have left until the SECOND human fell, and Asgore declared war, yet didn't cross the barrier. Therefore, strong monsters like Final Froggit can exist within the Ruins, as the Ruins weren't closed off until then. One could also say that Toriel never left at ALL, as the six humans weren't peaceful to the monsters like Chara did. This would mean that Toriel rules over and guards this first area, being where the humans first fall, similar to how there's always someone guarding each area of the Underground. I mean, if the Ruins isn't closed, it too needs guards! Also means an extra monster eats some candy. The fact that Asriel is still Flowey even though Chara fell can only mean one thing:Asriel was murdered. Probably by a human. (DUN DUN DUN!!!!!) As a result, it's quite believable that Toriel didn't "leave" at all, but rather watches over the Ruins like Undyne watches over Waterfall. But, Toriel does still say it's a one-way exit, so she probably DID leave, after the second (now first) human died. Still gives more time for the monsters in the Ruins to grow strong, and Toriel to guard the RUINS.

Now, you, Frisk, have fallen down for the first time. Toriel gives you Snail Pie instead of Cinnamon Pie because she never learned about the goodness of Cinnamon Pie from Chara, as.. Well, Chara never fell. We don't know why she isn't fighting you right away.. Maybe she knows you'll try to leave, and is trying to make the fight be unexpected? Maybe she's just trying to protect the rest of the Underground from you, thinking if she takes care of you, you won't leave? That perhaps she, like Papyrus, still believes you can be good if you try? During the actual fight, she no longer purposefully misses you, so she really is trying to kill you here. She knows she must protect the rest of the underground from you, after what happened to Asriel. So, you beat her, and well.. She doesn't die. Why is this? My answer:Determination. Remember, she was TRYING to kill you here, she wasn't swayed by emotions this time, and she has a SOMEWHAT good motive (A human literally killed her son, who posed no danger, as he wasn't in his Hyperdeath from, nor did he absorb a SOUL) to protect the rest of the Underground from you. Therefore, like Undyne, she survives. One could also say it was similar to SANS surviving..

This also means that Toriel probably have Sans make that promise, so if Hard Mode gets expanded, you're probably gonna have a bad time..

9)Well, what happens to Flowey when we LOAD a SAVE file, for him to both remember our SAVE, yet not be able to SAVE himself? What brings him back to whatever time be loaded from? He had to have been "kicked out", and forced to come back at the time we LOADed from. This is what happemed to us as well with Flowey. Gaster would have replicated this scientifically. We don't know where we are, perhaps some "waiting zone"? What about the part of the menu where you choose "Continue" or "Reset"?

10)Yes, not enough determination. The stakes for us weren't high enough-We could die as many times as we want and Flowey will bring us back. The same cannot be said for Asriel.

11)So we both agree about the reason why Asriel did her experiments? She knew that SOUL power was something that it took all of monsterkind combimed to match that of a human. So she would have already drew the "connection", if there was one. SOUL power is not determination. Determination can fluctuate, as Undyne can get enough determination to literally melt herself, and Frisk's determination ranges from <6 human SOULs, to >6+all monster SOULS

Therefore, if this were the case, humans could probably leave the barrier just by being determined to leave, ESPECIALLY Frisk, without absorbing a monster SOUL at all, as with hundreds of monsters, that one monster SOUL is so insignificant that the fluctuation can overtake it.

12)How would she even know about that if she left Asgore before then? She was in the Ruins, a one-way trip, there was nobody to tell hear the news of what happened. She wouldn't even know if the Barrier broke and everybody beyond the Ruins left, as long as Sans was still visiting that door and telling jokes. Toriel NEVER mentioned that Asgore shouldn't have killed any humans. The only thing she says she's mad about is that Asgore didn't just cross the barrier with one human SOUL. So we should go with what Toriel actually said.

13)Chara flat-out said we cried. That tears rolled down our face. Why can't THAT be what we disagreed about, since we obviously didn't do that?

14)There's proof that others do, and the narrator serves as a pretty good explanation. Makes more sense than Flowey somehow knowing about Youtube, that this is all just a video game, and that people are probably watching your Let's Play. Especially since Flowey would still say that even if you're not doing a Let's Play.

15)Yes, he is blinding us. I agree with that. I also agree that he activates the HUD. We are just disagreeing on what causes what. I'm saying him blinding us caused the HUD to activate, and you're saying activating the HUD caused us to go blind, despite the fact that we don't see Frisk's SOUL, something we WOULD see if it was just the HUD being activated.