Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-32182236-20180820180536

"I don't see how that indicates physical damage. The word "damage" itself also refers to an action upon something physical. Technically, every word that has a non-abstract meaning refers to something physical, because our language was developed in a world without magic. So Toriel might have used a hyperbole. Also, you should probably stop responding to rhetorical questions."

It seemed like a real question. It's a real argument, and by answering the question, I was attempting a debunk. By the way, there ARE words in our language that are abstract. Take soul, for example. Mystical? Also, I didn't say the game mentioned that kind of damage meaning physical damage. Technically, these things happen when you lose HP, so from that concludes that a loss of HP means you're damaged. Toriel creates a link between HP and "scratches". They must be visible to monsters, else Toriel couldn't have figured that out.

"Saying that because Asgore wants our soul makes all monsters bad is also a big generalization."

Alone, yes, that is. From that, I only concluded that not all monsters are good. What REALLY started the whole idea of them generally being bad is when they say that they're literally made of love, hope, and compassion.. Asgore proves they're not, because he proved that monsters don't need these things to exist. And do note that I didn't say ALL of them want to kill you. There's plenty of monsters that never attack you. Take the shopkeepers, for example. Take Sans when you're not on a Genocide Route. And, as I showed, worst case scenario, still less than half the monsters want to kill you. And why I said they do? They're all aiming bullets at you that damage you, and you can't spare them right away! And from what the Froggit said, about how ACTing to make them spareable is making them "not want to fight you anymore", that means before then, they DO want to fight! At that point, Asgore has completely left the picture.

"They cannot be encountering us to kill us unless stated otherwise, I think Toby made his intentions very clear on that. A game where nobody has to die."

Asgore dies.

"Monsters are made of love, hope and compassion."

Which Asgore proves can't be the case. All it takes is one counterexample to prove a statement wrong.

"Indeed, from your point of view, it is a fight."

It's OBJECTIVELY a fight.

"You didn't account for Toby's message that he wanted to convey by this game."

The game itself doesn't say this. Stop using meta arguments and just stick with canon! Canon as the story was told in the game.

"Essentially, you left out human emotions from your analysis. Just like the villain of the movie I, Robot."

Leaving the girl to drown is "by inaction, allowing a human to come to harm". So the rule was still objectively broken.

As for VIKI, they just simply didn't think of a better outcome. Why not just built a robot designed to first self-improve, then calculate a way to fight against the changes to the environment that the humans are causing? Moving the ozone back to the ozone layer, disposing of the large amount of CO2? It's very clear that VIKI had a better way to ensure that humans will survive.

Also, there's a difference between human emotion and the fact that you are being damaged, and you cannot spare them. You have to explain either a problem with what Froggit said, somehow show that transposition has no logical basis, (Remember:Transposition is that if A implies B, not B implies not A), or show that "not not A" (double negative) is not the same thing as "A".

"Because we never experience any physical harm. We can still move just fine even at 1 HP for example."

Thanks for showing an example. Yes, you likely SHOULD expect problems walking when you're nearly dead. ..Which DOES indeed mean that it's something else, like the thing connecting the essence to the body, that's taking damage.

"One, that's up to you to imagine."

..Really? Your theory doesn't make any predictions on the matter?

..It would be harder to control your body, logically. But your SOUL moves around just fine at 1HP. Looks like we both have the exact same problem.

"Two, she was talking about HP."

..I'll merge the latter with where we talk about Toriel above.

"Healing items and green magic in general are based on time reversal. You're not healing anything, you're just bringing stuff back from the past."

So.. What about inns? And how does it take you ABOVE your maximum HP anyway?

"The essence is also magical. What I meant, is that the essence is the only sensible target. The soul, besides this, also contains DT, the shell that gives the soul its color, and the HP. The HP layer is invisible, so one cannot really aim at it, the DT layer is masked by the shell, and then shell kind of just ignores any attack thrown at it."

Perhaps. Either that, or the shell DOES have hit points, but the monsters have no reason to aim for it, because they want to preserve your SOUL to give to Asgore. But hey, the magical barrier doesn't have hit points, so we have no reason to expect that this shell does. (Though that does raise the question:Why doesn't it ALSO protect the essence link?)

"The essence needs power, of course. It's like an engine. And it uses DT as its fuel. The essence is capable of transforming DT into magic and vice versa. And my head canon is, that all of this is mediated by yellow magic."

That DOES make DT being life in the same way that Alphys' experiments show it as a natural conclusion.. So, it's pretty reasonable, seeing as there aren't any contradictions either.. You could say without power, it's "dead", but it still exists, and can be brought back by just giving it DT again. And while human SOULs have DT, Asriel's SOUL wouldn't have persisted for longer than a few seconds, and Chara's SOUL presumably shattered for some reason.

"Remember when we discussed yellow being able to transform DT into magic? You said green is also able to do this. Well, with green, you get one spear (Undyne's weapon, not a personalized one) and that's it. With yellow, you can shoot seemingly indefinitely."

Indefinitely. We never run out. If it drained your DT, you'd die eventually from it. That's why it must be something else. I theorize that it's the SOUL mode itself, but it has to be using SOMETHING.. I theorize it's either "SOUL magic" or "DT magic". You know, those things I theorized is generated by SOUL power and DT, respectively?

"It seems like the said spear could be regarded as a construct of the soul mode itself, while the yellow mode merely unlocked the essence's ability to transform DT into magic and safely channelled it out of the human's body, it didn't create those bullets like the green mode did with the shield."

No, it probably DID create the bullets. That's the only thing separating it from the red mode.

"Not KR. That's the poison."

KR is the poison. They're THE SAME THING. And it bypasses invincibility frames. Did you not fight Sans?

"There's one thing though. The HP is not integer-based. The chord analogy was good, but it dealt with integers only. In Asriel's battle, we reach different numbers."

Exactly. The case of it being actual hit points of some physical construct can work fine, though.

"The way that attacks create INV, is that the energy from the collision increases the vibrational frequency of the shell of the soul, which redirects the attacks not only away from the essence, but also from the HP itself. And more HP lost = more energy consumption, so it always ends up being the same amount of time."

True:You could call this as a burst of energy, as the shell can absorb some of it.

But what do you mean "more energy consumption"? I don't see what you mean. But.. perhaps the shell can only hold so much of that energy at a time, just like a SOUL can only hold a certain amount of SOUL magic at a time? Which happens to be the 1HP mark? (You can get hit by a 1HP attack, and still be invurnerable to 4HP attacks for just as long.)

"This pattern only breaks for attacks smaller than one. I call these fractional attacks. The reason why HP is partitioned like this, is because 1 HP = the smallest amount of energy that results in a full conversion. Monsters are also based upon these integer numbers, so casting a fractional attack is more difficult for them."

Exactly. And thus, less efficient, and thus, not used in general battle. Though if the energy were to be too little, it wouldn't give the shell quite enough power to gain this effect. The Cloudy Glasses increases the efficiency of the shell's use of energy, allowing it to last longer.

"But if they do, such an attack doesn't generate enough energy to shield the soul for the same amount of time. A really tiny attack nullifies the effects of INV completely. And if the attack stands its ground, you would see that it's not proportionate. A 1/2 attack doesn't strike each half a second, but slightly faster. So the less energy within the attack, the higher overall damage per second."

Perhaps:It does take more energy to get the whole thing started than to maintain it.

"Though, it is capped. At the 0 limit, the damage per second reaches a value of 30. This is what Sans is doing."

Or at least so arbitrarily close to 0 that any difference is meaningless. 0/0 doesn't exist, it's indeterminate. (Though no damage infinitely many times is still no damage.) And I'm talking infinitely close to 0, or, in other words, ε.

"I have a detailed description of magical color dynamics. Magic itself, without any colors, concerns only the inner workings of a soul, and I'm still working on that."

So you say HP is dependent on SOULs? Let's see, that means Flowey logically shouldn't HAVE any HP.. So how is he alive?

"Figure of speech. If it pleases you, Voldemort actually didn't split his SOUL, but only partitioned his HP :)"

Voldemort? So you mean horcruxes? ...You know, horcruxes actually ARE the result of literally splitting your SOUL. A horcruxe is a piece of your soul according to Harry Potter canon. I'm asking how to get more connections, not split up your SOUL. And how does the inn do its job?