Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190425222457/@comment-32182236-20190428201955

Alright. How about we analyze them both?

Right now, I'm still dealing strictly with MatPat's take, since that's the one I said Manga debunked. Your take is far more elegant, and that requires a whole series of posts to debunk. Though so far, I'm still full on with Ness being right-handed.

And the Boulder Badge is the first badge in the Pokémon series. And it's the first badge you need in order to become the Champion.

Important is not the same as powerful. (Though something tells me Manga was joking there.)

Manga did mess up on Sans towering over Frisk. I believe I mentioned that in my original post, where I discussed the "second video". ---

Points supporting MatPat:2/9/16 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYdDUXyFocY)

"We call that the sun"-Sans ("We" means whatever group Sans is in calls it the sun, and Papyrus lacks knowledge of the sun-Ergo, humans.)

"and getting to the surface doesn't really appeal to me either"-Sans (Not talking about the Surface, so it must be another world! #Logic)

"PEOPLE you don't recognize" (Ness had friends Frisk didn't recognize, so, it's Ness! Not only that, three smiling people with "don't forget". Ness had three friends.)

"There's some kind of badge" (Franklin Badge, because why not?)

Mr. Saturns have illegible handwriting, and we can't read the "symbols"... maybe because of the handwriting.

The distortion machine can't transport organic matter... So it turned Sans into a skeleton

Courage is similar to determination.

Beach is similar to Summertown, and the maps seem to match.

Papyrus' markings match the Starmen.

Sans can teleport, and so can Ness.

Sans bleeding because he's human.

Sans' stance is similiar to Ness in marketing shots.

Halloween Hack has a lot of similar mechanics to Undertale.

Ness is missing in the Hack.

Points against MatPat, 2/9/16

None at this moment, since this is literally just MatPat's theory. --

Points supporting MatPat:2/16/16 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX4dmORs-8Q)

"We call that the sun"-Sans (Humans and monsters HAVE met before)

"and getting to the surface doesn't really appeal to me either"-Sans (Doesn't have to be talking about an alternate world. It could literally just be before they showed up in Snowdin)

"PEOPLE you don't recognize" (Monsters are people too.)

There's some kind of badge (Why can't it just be a security badge?)

Mr. Saturns have illegible handwriting, and we can't read the "symbols"... maybe because of the handwriting.

The distortion machine can't transport organic matter... So it turned Sans into a skeleton (No, Sans bleeds, so he has organic material)

Courage is similar to determination.

Beach is similar to Summertown, and the maps seem to match. (No they don't, the game is missing the lake south of the east city, and the town west of the mountain)

Papyrus' markings match the Starmen. (It's not a match.)

Sans can teleport, and so can Ness.

Sans bleeding because he's human.

Sans' stance is similiar to Ness in marketing shots.

Halloween Hack has a lot of similar mechanics to Undertale. (The Amalgamates have a different origin story. The similarities between the Hack and Undertale could be that Toby's re-using assets.)

Ness is missing in the Hack.

Counterpoints:

There are other humans Sans could be! (Even points out circumstantial evidence that could point to Sans being Dr. Andonuts, MatPat-style)

Papyrus' head is way too big to be a Starman

Why would Ness go into a Phase Distorter, knowing the consequences?

Sans' skull is bigger.

Why a jacket?

Why does Papyrus think Sans is his brother?

Why doesn't Sans use his baseball bat?

Sans is left-handed, Ness is right-handed

Wouldn't Sans still be a robot, since he never came back?

If Papyrus has no earthly knowledge, because he's a Starman, how does he know about cars?

---

Now, onto the next video. Turns out Manga was not the only one doing this.

Theory Status:7/6/16 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5EefAoAjxI

"We call that the sun"-Sans (Maybe Sans was around before they were banished? Sans is also knowledgeable, he could have learned from elsewhere.)

"and getting to the surface doesn't really appeal to me either"-Sans (...Maybe it's back before the Genocide Run?)

"PEOPLE you don't recognize" (Could be monsters Sans worked with. Also, monsters ARE people!)

There's some kind of badge (It was probably a security badge)

Mr. Saturns have illegible handwriting, and we can't read the "symbols"... maybe because of the handwriting. (Maybe SANS has bad handwriting?)

The distortion machine can't transport organic matter... So it turned Sans into a skeleton (Bones are organic material. No reason for Ness to use it.)

Courage is similar to determination. (Inspiration? Doesn't mean they're the same world.)

Beach is similar to Summertown, and the maps seem to match. (Inspiration!)

Papyrus' markings match the Starmen. (The costume was made for a costume party, and didn't exist sooner. It's not a Starman costume. Also, his head is too big. Starmen are also minions of Giygas.)

Sans can teleport, and so can Ness.

Sans bleeding because he's human. (The sound for when a monster is dusted is played. And humans don't turn into dust.)

Sans' stance is similiar to Ness in marketing shots. (How does standing similar prove anything? Also, inspiration! Enter the Gungeon would make many games connected because of its references by that logic!)

Halloween Hack has a lot of similar mechanics to Undertale. (The similarities between the Hack and Undertale could be that Toby's re-using assets.)

Ness is missing in the Hack.

Counterpoints:

Nothing new was added here. It's the same as how it was before this video went up.

Fails:

MatPat's joke evidence (Sans being one letter off from an anagram of Ness) was actually taken seriously. Though as Manga pointed out, it was about as good as the rest of the evidence, so.. I'm not surprised.

-

So, how well actually ARE those points? Well, I'm not sure, but it's time for Round 3 of the analysis. You can analyze my analysis as well. I'll be taking a few things that you said as well.

-

"We call that the sun"-Sans (Manga's spot-on. Humans and monsters were together at one point. Human knowledge could have passed on to the monsters, and Papyrus proves they HAD to have, since he knows what cars are. And he knows of Santa.

"and getting to the surface doesn't really appeal to me either"-Sans (As Manga points out, it could be before they went to Snowdin. I'd say it was back to before Gaster's disaster.)

"PEOPLE you don't recognize" (Could be monsters Sans worked with. I'd say back when he was working with Gaster. Also, monsters ARE people!)

There's some kind of badge (It was probably a security badge, or an identification badge for when he was working for Gaster.)

Mr. Saturns have illegible handwriting, and we can't read the "symbols"... maybe because of the handwriting. (They were also describes as symbols beforehand. If we see them as SYMBOLS, but it's also handwriting.. What if this was in Wingdings? This could be Gaster!)

The distortion machine can't transport organic matter... So it turned Sans into a skeleton (It actually can. Porky survived, and you can bring some items with you that have organic material.)

Courage is similar to determination. (Similar does not mean the same. And they're only similar in that having it will give you power to succeed. What's next, is it linked with My Little Pony because it's like the magic of friendship?)

Beach is similar to Summertown, and the maps seem to match. (The maps don't match, a lake is missing. As for the beach, where are the umbrellas? Where are the chairs? Where is that horizontal line halfway through the wall/floor? The tiles are off as well. There's not a match here.)

Papyrus' markings match the Starmen. (Brooke is spot-on.)

Sans can teleport, and so can Ness. (That is seriously pretty weak. Teleportation is a common ability in media. Alakazam can teleport, for example.)

Sans bleeding because he's human. (The sound for when a monster is dusted is played. And humans don't turn into dust.)

Sans' stance is similiar to Ness in marketing shots. (How does standing similar prove anything?)

Halloween Hack has a lot of similar mechanics to Undertale. (The similar mechanics between the Hack and Undertale could be that Toby's re-using assets.)

Ness is missing in the Hack. (No, he's actually with Varik, helping him gain his courage. Actually, come to think of it, is Varik actually just an alter-ego of Ness?)

Counterpoints:

There are other humans Sans could be!

Papyrus' head is way too big to be a Starman

Why would Ness go into a Phase Distorter, knowing the consequences?

Sans' skull is bigger. (It's actually a bit smaller, believe it or not. Put the sprites side by side. But that makes a counterpoint of its own. So...

Sans' skull is smaller.

Why a jacket? (Because he's living in Snowdin, instead of the warm area of Twoson.)

Why does Papyrus think Sans is his brother?

Why doesn't Sans use his baseball bat? (Why would he? His Gaster Blasters and other attacks are far more powerful.)

Sans is left-handed, Ness is right-handed

Wouldn't Sans still be a robot, since he never came back?

If Papyrus has no earthly knowledge, because he's a Starman, how does he know about cars?