Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190617222636/@comment-32182236-20190706161104

The full text is: "The humans attacked him with everything they had." "He was struck with blow after blow." "ASRIEL had the power to destroy them all." ( https://youtu.be/7Ig88w_2_6A?t=2659 )

Exactly. Blow after blow. Not shot after shot.

'Everything They Had' sounds like more than one method of attack was used.

Well sure, they could have used both swords and spears. ...It could also mean that they just gave it everything they had... In the way laymen understand it. As in, done their very best.

Why couldn't the humans have guns?

Because if they did, then that would be their weapon of choice, as it's the most effective, and most popular when dealing with threats. What's the one weapon you'll find a modern police force using? Guns. And tasers.. But these people were trying to KILL Asriel, and a taser wouldn't do the job.

And that would mean Asriel would have taken shot after shot.. Not blow after blow. Blow after blow implies blunt weapons were used.

One of the Six who followed Chara (a search party from her village? People she knew?) definitely had a gun, it's one of the weapons we find along the way, and the theme of one of Omega Flowey's attacks using The Six captured human souls.

...You missed the obvious explanation. I'm surprised you didn't know I was going to respond with this.. The obvious response is probably the one I have.. Presuming there aren't errors that you mentioned before. (There could be errors you hadn't mentioned at the time)

This human was likely the latest that fell before Frisk. Common consensus agrees on this, and this is the only human to bring something exclusively modern, so I'd agree with them because of that. WAY after Chara fell... After we got far closer to the present.

...Seriously. You leave a giant hole in your reasoning. Of course I'm going to strike there. Or did you just not see that giant hole?

By the way, can anyone analyse the kind of gun we see in Omega Flowey's fight? Perhaps we can date this human's fall based on what era the gun is from. It'll serve as an upper bound, as Chara must have fell before then.

And since monster tech before Gaster was synchronized to human tech, since they got all of it by reverse-engineering human trash, having a video camera was possible at this day and age without the need of a mad scientist.

We don't know there even WAS monster tech before Gaster... I'm inclined to believe there wasn't. We only have evidence of using human technology AFTER the fall of Gaster, and it makes sense. Without Gaster, where else could tech have come from?

The first tape shows that Toriel and Asgore had a video camera, before Asriel was even born! Which means this camera has been in the Dreemur family for several years before Chara even arrived.

Hence dating it before the CORE, and removing Chara as a possibility for its origin. This ill become important later, so keep this in mind.

And if Gaster had designed a video camera, I don't think it would look anything like the type with a lens cap we could pick up at Best Buy.

What if he did it in the 17th century.. Or perhaps even the 16th century?

In mad scientist/Girl Genius Spark fashion, everything Gaster makes seems to be massively overbuilt, erring on the side of massive power while paying little mind to mundane concerns like Safety.

A sample size of one is not large enough to be statsitically significant. If I take a red marble out of a bag, and that is the only marble you saw anyone take out... Does that mean we can be reasonably certain that all the rest of them are red, too?

If it doesn't violate at least three laws of physics most people believe, he'd probably find the project boring.

At the time, it wasn't even understood that light was a wave-The double-slit experiment wouldn't be done until 1801. Batteries weren't invented in the human world either. So Gaster's presenting a machine capable of capturing sequences of light and sound, and then playing it back... Multiple times.. Without destroying the information by transmitting it back. Rather, the information is cloned.

To a 17th century society.. Such a thing would be impossible. What's next, are we going to be able to fly one day? HA! (They beleived man would never fly)

Asking Gaster to personaly make a completely mundane piece of consumer electronics.. without even a system to automaticly teleport the lens cap out of the way if the user forgets to remove it?... might actually hurt his mind.

..Okay, Ferret.

As we know, this device was made well before the CORE. It would be pretty early on in his career.

It was probably obsolete well before Chara fell.. But as Tape 1 was made with it, the Dreemurrs may have had felt some kind of sentimental value for it. Or perhaps they passed it on to Asriel, simply because they didn't need it anymore, having a better camera now.

In fact, I think many of Gaster's inventions became obsolete... By Gaster's later inventions!

So, what happened to the old ones? They were thrown away! Ended up at the monster dump, and became the technology that Undyne and Alphys discovered there. The technology that Alphys reverse-engineered to make Dimensional Portals. The technology that is the only reason that modern technology exists.

Humans in the modern era do not have lasers. They cannot create a vessel for a living being in robotic form (Alphys didn't make a sentient robot, but a vessel for life is still impressive). Yet, the monsters still have these tchnologies, and we know based on the end shot that we're in the modern day. This technology could not have came from the humans... So it must have came from somewhere else.

Somewhere else that the monsters don't know about, as if they did, they wouldn't be speculating that they came from humans in the first place.

The only possibility I can think of is that they're from a Gaster who is now erased, because of the Cosmic Retcon.

So now both the Followers and this seem to support the idea that Gaster was forgotten.

Elevator Voice mistook Frisk for Chara, after all. If 300 years had pasted between their arrivals, either Time Travel Shenanigans have occured, or Chara's some kind of Undead.

There's three flaws here!

First, from a risen person's perspective, no time passed between their death and revival. Flowey simply was suprised that their entire body had just turned into a flower, rather than turning to dust, and then being risen as a flower. He didn't experience anything after his death, but also before his revival. The same is true for Chara. As their End Speech says, at first they were confused why they were brought back.. As their plan failed, hadn't it? They speak of this as if it was a recent event.. So they had o idea that 300 years passed... At least not until Flowey messed around and saw for himself shat the date was.

Second, Flowey beleieves Chara rose from the dead. He wonders if Chara head him calling to them to do that. So Flowey already believes Chara would naturally be an Undead. Perhaps possessing the body of Frisk. And since Chara is with us, it makes sense for Flowey to sense their presence-Especially since at LV19, Chara has the oppertunity to take over..

Third... Chara actually IS Undead. They speak of themselves as a cemon, and their invisibility makes it clear that they're a ghost.

We're assuming that each of the Six Humans that followed Chara were evenly spaced out through time.. but what if all Six arrived together as a search party to try and find Chara? Or hunt "the monster that killed her"?

If this is the case, why did they come one-by one at all? Why not come as a group?