Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-33883848-20180705204758

"firmess of purpose"?? there's no link between determination and a combination of all traits. Plus if red soul is Determination then the ball game would something say something like "by not giving up regardless all the obstacles you reached your goal"when you get the red flag as the tactics are related to a trait during the ball game. But instead its only says that to get the red flag (related to the red soul), Frisk used all traits. Which is nothing to do with determination. Plus determination in real world "determination"is very very close to ", those two words complete each other. Also yes perseverance is related to the "firmess of purpose"because someone cannot be perseverant if they dont want firmly to achieve their goal.So since there's already a trait veeeeery close to real word determination in the game, why would Toby make another trait that practically derives from "perseverance?"?? Plus given how perseverance hosts behave (taking notes to reach the end despite feeling trapped), we can say that we rather use perseverance than determination in the game.

"I refer you to my usage of the GoHD fight in the Pacifist Route, and the entirety of the Genocide Route. As well as these points"

During the genocide Frisk is rather perverant as they need to "take notes"to beat Undyne and Sans,even so they "feel trapped"and those two fights are the biggest part of this run.During the Asriel battle, Frisk is rather filled with a big amount of "wiligness to live on"(determination), that why they refuse to die without even resetting when Asriel kill them, probably because their friends are in danger. So your argument is invalid.

"1) Throughout the entire game, Frisk is always associated with Determination. That line of "having a look of hope in their eyes" means nothing more other than a comparison to Chara, since there is literally nothing mentioning hope in that sense in the rest of the game."

Yes, they are filled with determination because every monster wants their death.Keep in mind that "determination "is something we can feel if we feel in danger of death (such as Flowey who reloaded his save file when he was about to die after he killed himself or Undyne who reborn because she dont want to die with her own determination ). By the way its implied by Toriel "Every time a human fell down here, i have weird impression that i know all of them"that every fallen human had recept power, which means that they were associated too with determination too(because only the being filled with the most determination have this power)but not that they all had determination as a trait same goes for Frisk.

"2) Neither the GoHD fight or Genocide Run make sense on purely just the "will to live" definition. Bear in mind that there is also the "resolve to change fate (in other words resolution)" definition in the same entry that the former is mentioned in. Both meanings are canon to Undertale, and seeing as how Ball Game - again - uses the real world meanings of the other traits in some form or fashion in the descriptions. (The Blue Flags description can be interpreted as upholding your own moral values in the face of challenge and adversity.) It only makes sense that Determination would be the same way (i.e. firmness of purpose; resolution; something used very commonly in stories about changing fate)."

Actually, Alphys use "the will to keep living, the resolve to change fate"for the same subtance, i dont think that this same subtance would have two very different fonctions.Plus she dont seem to use it as two different definitions but as the same one giving the lack of "and"word between the two definitions. Its rather seems like those two definitions are cloose, the "fate "could refer to "death"because its something we cant avoid if we are killed(logically), so in this case those two definitions are the same: determination is "the will to keep living"so the "the resolve to change the fate(death) ". Its kind of very philosophic and Toby's idea to transform our feeling to surpass death into something so strong, important in the game its really cool and well thought

"3) Since each color already has something associated with it, and both red and DT are the only things not associated with something, then it only makes sense (due to process of elimination and logic) that Red = Determination."

This is what i try to proove in all my essays, the reason why red isnt associated with anything its simply because there's no trait that can be associated with it because its a neutral soul just like Frisk's character(theres an analysis of me that you can find in the wiki article about Frisk that shows how much Frisk is neutral as a character). And its not because those are two things not associated with something that they are necessarily related, hope is also a feeling but its not associated with red or with any other colour. If you so want to associate determination with a colour then the most likely candidate is yellow, as your save points are in yellow(also the save points are "the manifestation of your own determination"as said by the textbook) the word "determination"is written in yellow in lab entry(note that the  yellow text is commonly used to reflect  characters 's feelings when they talk but that here is literally written by an ingame character which would be weird if she used this colour to reflect to others characters her feelings,that too meta ).Its nothing to do with the yellow colour for justice trait, because here this colour is used for a trait and not for a power like determination. This colour is used for Justice trait and likely determination power which doesnt means that justice and determination are related.Plus if you use game maker program(or another one),you may remark that the yellow used for justice trait and the yellow used for the save point isnt really the same yellow. .