Talk:Eight Humans/@comment-35012101-20180316070223/@comment-33883848-20190306165922

"for instance.. Chara DOES encourage Genocide, and not Pacifist. Killing one of the Dreemurrs would ruin their plan. They're a Pragmatic (Anti?)Villain. They knew Asriel and them would split control. I don't think Asriel would go along with killing all of humanity after realizing what Chara just did. "

Chara doesnt want any genocide run unless you guide them and make them realize that the Reason why they were awakened in power,they didnt even know why they came back to life when they wake up and only realized the Reason because of your guidance"why was i brought back to life,you with your guidance i realizzed the purpose of my reincarantion power"

they also never provide you any kill count in the ruins,why dont they if they really wanted to kill without our influence?

And chara's descriptions of monsters are really positive in at least neutral ir pacifist run "knows best for you","can you show mercy without figting?","dont pick on him","this monster is so sensitive to fight",call undyne a hero etc...that proove that they in fact rather encourage peacefull methods.Even in the genocide run,they shows sadness when you check the photo,which implies that they feel bad about Killing the rest of their family even though they have to so they would be completely emmotionally disntant and erase the world

flowey also says that in the pacifist run,chara is in peace as monsters are happy (even though you force them to reset)

and finally chara is OPTMISTIC if you never kill and PESSIMISTIC if you kill as proved by the dog's bag narration ?thats everything you need as proof

"Chara's plan was to get the humans to attack, so they could get Asriel to agree to killing them all. But the attack had to look unjustified. Chara knew the best way to accomplish this was by holding their own body as Asriel, where it would be seen by the entire village-And soon, the entire war. "If I killed those humans.. We would have to wage war against all of humanity."-Asriel This was the PLAN. What Chara WANTED. "

oh really because you say so?How do you know that the awfull consequneces was really part of chara's plan?And do you really think that they would think asriel would agree to destroy humanity? And what about the fact that the human souls would have control aswell and thus,would faill Chara's plan?

Eventually,chara says that their plan was common to asriel's one

"OUR plan is failled right?"and not "my plan"and what was Asriel's plan?

"OUR PLAN"is actually refering to "WE'll be strong,WE' free everyone"-asriel

So,yes chara's plan was to free the monsters,something they had common with asriel,they had no ulteriour motive at all like zero

and i dont understand why you changed your mind the human ambassador,because when i argued with you at first,you believed that chara was overally a nice kid,so what happened?

" Yes, they would say it's our fault. Why wouldn't they? We do share part of the blame, and they want the SOUL exchange to look like a compromise, so you'll be more willong to accept it"

yet they still blame you for the second genocide world's destruction,the one where they already has frisk's soul so they arent trying to manipulate you so you'll giv ethem your soul ,theres also no evidneces claiming that chara is trying to manipulate you,thats just your headcanon because just like every genocide chara fan you like to demonize every single of their actions,not because you have good narrative reasons.

YOU were truly the one who pushed the world to its desttruction while chaar was just providing the kill count and they have excuse for every single of their actions:they are Under our guidance,we are responsable for what chara becomes,this is why we have to give them a name even though they already have one.If you guide them well,then they found peace as floewy indicates and is optimistic ,guide them badly they destroy the world.

"If you say no, they'll ask what you're looking for, despite the fact that Chara told you before that you and them were going to "destroy this pointless world, and move onto the next". They're manipulating you." They don't want you to figure that out, so they hide it.Chara's in the final picture."

iam TIRED of this argument you use again and again ,chara has NO REASON TO HIDE THAT WE WONT MOVE IN ANY WORLD,in fact they can even destroy the world without your input ,so why would they lie to you about it???A fictionnal character Always has a Reason to lie as otheriwse the Creator wouldnt them lie without Reason.Especially that they never mention any next world in the second geno end.So no chara wasnt lying as they have no Reason to lie,this is why i belive that the "next world"is the abyss,the place where chara and frisk are suposed to live after destroyin the world"

"Not Frisk. Chara is the one that killed everyone in Soulless Pacifist. If it was Frisk again. Chara wouldn't need Frisk's SOUL to prove it. "

chara never kill "everyone"they only kill frisk's friens to show them that they arent "above conséquences",and chara also CANT destoy humanity as they are only a ghost in frisk's body,they would need a nuclear bomb to destroy humanity and they dont ven interfers during any neutral ending while frisk reach the surface in each neutral ending,so if they wants humanity to burn ,where the human destruction in neutral ends?And why dont they destoy humanity in regular pacifist runs aswell?After all,they join the surface in this ending,so why?Also ,they wouldnt gain any control over frisk with their soul as frisk still have control over their body in souless pacifists runs until the really end and Nothing even implies that it would allow them to gain control or anything,after all,chara's esscence is still combined with frisk's soul so the control is spilt

And i know that everyone hate chara and call them pure evil because they took frisk's soul but……do you(all yandere chara's fans) ever thought of why they ask it??of What the fuck they would gain with a soul?? If you were mercifull and had at least some empathy to this poor kid you would understand.Remember,the only advantage they would get with this soul is the ability to love…..even thouht they "cant undertand those feelings"despite the fact that they have your soul,you also had to save asriel to aloow him to feel love again but theres no save option for chara.

And everyone can become better in undertale,so why not chra?Why couldnt they let go of their hate towards humanity?You would say "but come on,chara is only characetrr who had no explicit arc so they must be beyond salvation and blablabla"but you forget that toby is very often subtle,for example is is said anywhere that gaster is related to skelebros?nope but its implied,is is said anywhere that asgore kill himself in a neutral ending?No but its implied,is it said that alphys kill herself in some neutral endings ?nope but its implied,

is it said in the game that chara loved their family,nope but the fact alone that the family's photo is angled towards their bed subtly confirm it.

Chara doesnt need an explicit arc where they apoligize to what they done etc.….because it subtly exist you know?Chara likes a freaking human,making them poems,helping them by giving info on every single stuff they check,giving advice of how to beat the monsters and giving options,provide save option to allow frisk to save their friends etc...Flowey also clealy state that they found peace in the pacifist end"take a deep breath because theres Nothing left to worry about",they are also optimistic in this run as you never killed inthis run.

All yandere chara fans completely ignores the lesson of mercy of undertale ,that everyone have understable motives for their bad actions do and that everyone has good in them,its hilarious to see tvtropes saying"with the exeption of the Fallen human,every single character has good in them even flowey"which basically treat toby of hypocrite and why the fuck would toby include a one dimensional evil in the game like undertale where everyone is doing bad stuff either because they are broken,misguided,desesperate etc...?Especially considering the fact that the game never explictly tells you they are evil and that they are just a kid,,who was a childish kid who liked chocolate and play with asriel ,who was asriel's best friend who also understood him and etc.…..Whatever you like it or not,chara cant be pure evil,whos doing evil stuff because they are evil as it completely ruins the game's message and goes agaisnt it philosophy but you all basically affirm that they wantsto kill everyone because they are evil with no deeper motivations.Not only that but you use freaking spéculations to "proove"they are evil,which shows how much this idea is biased

You all literally proved that you dont care about the game most important message and only about your biased headcanons that affirms that chara is pure evil beyond salvation just because it sounds cool and because you dont even try to undertand them and twist every single of their action to "proove"they are evil.If everyone desrves mercy in undertale and that you showed mercy to everyone,why would chara be an exeption.?And chara is overally a nice kid,whatever you like or not