Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31536324-20190117214835/@comment-27136653-20190211052439

''It's the mayhem of BALL, not the Ball of Mayhem. Important difference.''

You've put an end to the mayhem caused by the ball. In other words, you've stopped the ball, whose property is mayhem.

Think of Justice as the orderly system, and Integrity being what principals to BASE your system off of-Your original style.

An "orderly system" is a very vague statement without context. With justice, you are striving for order and... justice. And integrity is about morals. The next step is figuring out what real-world scenarios this translates to in such a way that these two fundamental traits overlap as little as possible.

This is more about creating things than actually building them.

What is the difference? Creating being faster?

I simply ignore the fanon and build my own canon based on what the game says.

I mean... don't we all do exactly that? Though I also think that literature has nothing to do with it. I think that was rather the purple human's own personal hobby, rather than the property of all purple souls.

Furthermore, "trial and error" seems to also fit my own head canon about it, which is a reiteration of magic. I've used that to explain Sans's KR hurting you multiple times in a row, but you can also think of it as the necessary action needed to be taken for trial and error - repeating the same thing over and over.

The Yellow flag makes it clear that the ball is an enemy.

To the yellow flag it is an enemy. Remember, the narratives could be skewed individually for each flag. Especially if the green flag isn't treating the ball as an enemy. In other words, you don't know, so don't assume.

I'm using the streamlined conclusion of the other traits to find out what green is.

That's what I said. You're using their conclusion to streamline the conclusion about the others. To change their meaning to make them conform to the rest.

So we can't say compassion is the MAIN aspect of green.

It's kindness, obviously.

''Passion fits. It fitting Undyne was just a bonus that I realized after the fact.''

Yes. But looking back, passion is more a property of blue, rather than green.

''Compassion is a subset. A subset means just that-A SUBSET. Passion is a set, and the set of compassion is contained within that set. Not all passion is compassion, but all compassion is passion. Capiche?''

If the two aren't equal, then... why are you trying to connect passion with green?

''We can't say that green is classical kindness as you define it. Remember, red is a combination of all six traits. So that means Frisk has the green traits.. On ALL routes. Including Genocide.''

That's why I connected green with defense, rather than actual literal kindness.

I still cite the Asriel paradox.

I call plot hole. Funnily, there are more, in case this conclusion surprises you. Notably the fur stuck in the sink. It should turn to dust, shouldn't it? And then all the others which we may have touched already in our previous discussions.

''Not necessarily. I've taken both and sacrificed none, and I haven't run into any contradictions.''

At the cost of massively bloating your theory. You know what you will get after you manage to unify all the facts presented by the game under one singular set of rules and axioms? An exact replica of the game's code. Bravo.

''They're not. Any SOUL of determination can do this, and I headcanon that it's a 1 in 7 chance.''

That already makes them better though. It's not just a unique property, it's a quantifiable advantage that puts it above the rest. And I don't fancy this inequality. I mean, if Frisk's soul was white, a color that's a mixture of other colors, I wouldn't find it as weird. But when it's just another chromatic color... I'm skeptical. I'm not saying it's not a mixture already, but... the colors certainly don't match. So even if it is a mixture, it probably isn't superior to the rest.

''It's SOUL power. You know, the thing mentioned by the Waterfall plaques? It's something completely different, that determines your POWER. Not HP or durability, but POWER.''

And what is soul power? No seriously, tell me, what is it exactly? Is it some sort of a mixture, or is it something new entirely?

''We should ALWAYS fix them. We should never disregard them.''

Define "fix". Acknowledge and integrate? Or perhaps change to make it conform? Once again, when you adhere to one fact by sacrificing another one, that's changing. Taking both and arching over them with a slightly bloated explanation is integrating it. But either works. Changing something isn't disallowed, since you're merely using a different explanation for the same phenomena. Kinda like the geocentric model vs the heliocentric. An alternative explanation.

My grand point is, sometimes, it's better to find an alternative explanation, for the sake of perserving simplicity. Especially if we can never know what the true answer is, such as with Undertale. But it's also a tradeoff. Too much simplicity and you're gonna be making ridiculous conclusions. Too much adhesion to the canon and you're gonna be making ridiculous conclusions, due to the canon being simply imperfect. Toby's game is imperfect, there does not exist a full explanation, that is also simple. I know this because you've failed to present one after some, what, 2 to 3 years of constantly probing this game? Are you sure what you're looking for actually exists?

I'm still taking the path of the simplest rational conclusion, a healthy balance of both fact reexplaining and weird-ass conclusion making.

Asriel's line would like to argue against you.

Idk man, he didn't actually say anything, nor were his words changed after we did that. It's not about what he said as much as what he didn't say after we did it.

''We just need to take all the evidence that we've got, and form a conclusion that fits ALL the evidence. ''

Overfitting your conclusion to the canon info. Well, I cannot say anything, except good luck.

''ALL of it. The Dirty Hacker Ending is noncanon simply because we can't access it, and secondly because it results in clear contradicts.''

So, already assuming that Frisk isn't the player? Okay, that's one head canon switch you've just successfully set. I wonder what's the next one gonna be.

''But you need to simultaneously explain the 1st. You can't pick and choose, or flip-flop.''

It's a cyclical system. 0 = 7 mod 7.

But if you blatantly contradict what was said, your theory has a problem.

Yes. You too can keep it in mind.

''We are, if we BOTH use them correctly. Just use proper grammar!''

I could say the same to you. The sentence has two interpretations. I tried to show you how mine can work. But you're too busy ignoring my explanation to make the plaques conform to your theory. That's okay, but at least acknowledge that both work. Same with the mayhem thingy. These things simply don't have just one answer.

And before you reply, consider the ridiculousness of the argument that one of us and ONLY one of us is correct because that same person said so.

If DT is the seventh trait

Yes. That's the head canon here.

''As a lack of the former. Impatience is a lack of patience. As I said, if you can wait even 1 Planck Time, you have some patience.''

I suppose, making it 0.5-centered does work.

''In the case of the SOUL, the six traits ARE the dominant ones. The rest just add TO said traits, based on what they are. A square still counts as a rectangle, after all, so compassion still counts as passion, for example.''

So there are more than 6 fluids? Or what exactly are you trying to say? How are the sub-traits distinguished from the main ones to give rise to a different personality? Also, the fixed paragraph is saying the same thing to me. So, don't be bothered about it.