Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190131130037/@comment-32182236-20190302181931

--Chapter 1:The Fate of Asriel--

"The most heartbreaking part of Undertale is the fate of Flowey/Asriel Dreemur."

That is true. And everything you said is true, all the way up to (and including)

"It’s a legendary heartbreaking story about love and redemption, and loss."

Yes, it is. Nice that you got the story down. It's probably the second biggest idea of the game's story. Perhaps even the first, depending on our perspectives. Either this or the hypothesis I have earlier is what the story of Undertale is about. Well, probably both, actually. ..This is actually a better candidate, given that during Asriel's story, the song that plays is literally called "Undertale". It can't get any more direct than that!

"Once you complete the True Pacifist Ending, you can go back and talk to everyone you met along the way, and just like Earthbound, they all have something new to say after the adventure. It makes the world seem even more alive and dynamic, and gives you a real feeling that your actions have made a difference.

But if you go all the way back to the beginning, you’ll find Asriel there, still a boss monster kid. He still believes he’s going to fade, but so far isn’t showing any signs of reverting to the compassion-less flower he used to be."

Of course not. It takes time. The remnants of power from the SOULs slowly fade, and he can keep his form until they run out. This is quite common in fiction, in fact. Marty doesn't start to fade right away after he changes his future, that takes time for the ripple to take effect. Think of the SOULs as what recharges the energy that Asriel needs to maintain his form. Once that energy runs out, he can no longer maintain his form, and he fades.

"If you ask Gerson “Is Asgore a Goat?” he’ll tell you an important thing about Boss Monsters. When they have a child, the SOUL power of the parents flows into the child, causing them to grow as the parents age. Toriel and Asgore haven’t been aging, and are essentially immortal, because they don’t have a child, and Asriel in his flower form didn’t count.

At present, Asgore and Toriel are the only two boss monster parents we know of. Which means this bit of lore can only apply to one creature in the entire game: Asriel himself.

If Asriel can hold onto his current form, his monster soul that dissipated during his death will gradually recharge over time! If he can hold out long enough.. Asriel will have a monster soul again!"

Asriel is simply Flowey who morphed into Asriel. His original body is dust now. And FLOWEY has no link to Asgore and Toriel, so he is not taking SOUL power from them.

Anyways, now let's go over Chara's story.

You get everything right about Chara.. until your first mistake here:

"Whatever hostility Chara endured, it left a scar upon her soul, leaving her unable to feel true love and compassion."

We don't know that for sure. We know Chara would never trust a human, but it could very well be true that Chara really WAS friends with Asriel. However, I do indeed believe the entire time, they were ALSO going to use that against the humans. Giving the monsters freedom on the Surface is a nice bonus, though.

But you quickly get things right again, until your next mistake here:

"Chara reveal her REAL plan. She tried to take over Asriel from within like a puppet, to use his body and soul as a tool to kill EVERYONE in the village to exact her revenge, throwing away all of their friendship in one massive horrible trick, revealing that she had never cared about Asriel in the first place."

There's more to it than that. I explain in plenty of detail here (https://undertale.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:151492), but I'll summarize here.

Chara already knew about the split control, because of Tape 5 in the True Lab.

"Six, right? we just have to get six... And we'll do it together, right?"-Asriel, Tape 5, True Lab.

So, Chara needed to get their plan through to Asriel. They needed some way to convince Asriel to go through with it. So they started with just freeing the monsters, and then, they'd stage an attack. They put their own dead body in the flowers, clearly a burial, knowing this would make the humans attack. This was an attempt to get Asriel to see what humans were really like (from Chara's perspective, that is). Hopefully, this would get Asriel to kill them, in self-defense. Of course, Chara would be helping out as well, showing him the way.. Preparing the attack. Perhaps then, Asriel would then agree with the rest of the plan, and be fine with destroying the rest of humanity, seeing them at their worst.

Asriel stood there, taking blow after blow, and eventually retreated, but far too late. And then, they died.

But then, you get things right again.. Up until here:

"CHARA was the name Frisk called, and when he did, this struck the core of Asriel’s being like no previous attempt had, a place so deep he couldn’t even see it himself. Frisk found Chara’s undying human soul, still hidden deep with Asriel after he had absorbed it during the doomed Buttercup Adventure, and began to heal it. And slowly, painstakingly, that soul began to feel compassion again."

..When Chasriel died, the SOUL would have shattered. Chara's SOUL would not have found itself inside of Flowey. This was a memory of Asriel finding Chara, because that was Asriel's best friend. It reminded him of what love was. And through them, he could finally feel love again. Flowey had believed in the Genocide Route that a world without love, a world without Chara, isn't worth living. That should speak for itself for how strong the bond between Asriel and Chara was, and could explain why those memories worked. Note that the memory was of Asriel finding Chara ALREADY in the Underground. The actual fall was not there at all. How could we give Asriel that memory? Because Chara is the narrator, and we have been shown to be able to get their memories before, like in Waterfall, where we hear Asriel calling out to Chara. So the memory went from Chara, to us, to Asriel, saving him.

..So yeah. Chara was not in Asriel. They were in US. Because they're the narrator.

..And that's the end of Chapter 1.