Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-32182236-20190716003715/@comment-32182236-20190814201321

-Alphys believes that there's an entity out of their universe watching her.

She believed the same thing about Mew Mew Kissy Cutie. This is simply her fangirling, imagining the perfect match for her.

There's a reason why Mettaton struck that idea down.

-Flowey mention the "sickos"who watch instead of killing themselves and think that another entity like this is watching right now.

That entity is the narrator. Which happens to be Chara. If Flowey found out that the narrator was Chara after he said that, though.. and realized that he unknowingly called Chara a sicko.. I wonder how he'd take the irony?

Sans always face the forth wall at each pun

Perhaps there's an audience south of the Snowdin Forest.

"And if you're bored, you can sit outside and watch those wacky skeletons do their thing."-Snowdin Shopkeeper

Sans and Papyrus are quite popular in Snowdin. Probably because of how often Sans shows up at Grillby's.

"The town has gotten a lot more interesting since then."-Snowdin Shopkeeper

Sometimes,Sans wink at the forth wall in reset menu

If the reset menu itself is somehow canon, including all the characters that reside there, then why can't Sans be winking at Frisk?

Frisk constantly face the fourth wall.

...No, they don't. They face whichever direction they're walking. -River person's line "Beware of the man who speaks in hands"and "Beware of the man who came from another world"could be a reference to the player,who's from another world and communicate with Undertale in hands.

Or it could be Gaster. He very well could have came from Deltarune, and he actually speaks in hands. Literally speaking.

River person says "Its X day somewhere"and the said day depends on your computer date,hinting that our world canonicaly exist in Undertale's story.

...Or it could just be talking about the Surface, and the time we boot up the game retroactively determines the date Frisk fell, and thus, everything else that determines it. (Like the creation of the MTT statue in the Royal Memorial Foundatin)

Though it is quite interesting that the Surface's timeline isn't necessarily depending on the Underground's timeline, or vice versa.

I don't think that we play as Frisk,i will quote what i said earlier about it "Frisk often refuse to follow the options(for example if you talk to Toriel during her fight they won't find any conversation topics)if Frisk is in control of their own actions,why can they choose options while they won't follow them?

Player (Undertale):Frisk::Player (The Legend of Zelda):Link

Why can Frisk donnate anoying dog while they see it as a waste of their time?(which shows that they are a very nice,selfless patient kid lol)and why would they feel a "sence of relief"if you refuse to donnate him if they chose this option themself?"

...People have done things even as they think it's a waste of time, right? Perhaps they have nothing better to do? Though the sense of relief is something that I'll have to take into consideration..

And Frisk can take decisions completely on their own will aswell without our input,for example they choose themselves to not call a monster when they receive their number or stop to continually open Sans's book despite our commands.

Look back at the analogy I gave earlier.

Think of it like this:We are Frisk.. But Frisk is not us.

Just think of Frisk the same way you think of any other video game protagonist, and you'll get what I think of the relationship between the player and Frisk.

How it all suposed to make sence if we are Frisk?Why can they disobey us if we are them?

We are roleplaying as them. They still have set personalities. Just like any other video game protagonist. Do you think the player canonically exists in every Mario RPG ever because Mario acts on his own, with no player input? Of course not! We still play as Mario!

Nothing implies that Flowey chossing a name for himself was a "meta act"related to hud or something,even in real life people change their name so that doesnt prove anything.

We're not picking a name for Frisk, we're picking a name for Chara. Or, picking a name to show up on the HUD.

...There's still Omega Flowey, though. He has experience with the HUD, at least.

Sans may be aware of the player as hinted by his forth wall breaking moments but that doenst mean that he know the player is controling Frisk.

Sans isn't just aware of the player if we take the dirty hacker ending to be canon. He's also aware that we achieved an ending. An impossible ending, in fact. Though he's not aware of who made the game.

So if he's aware that the ending happens when Frisk leaves (or doesn't leave because they get stuck by the Barrier) the Underground, then that would allow him to figure out that Frisk is the main protagonist, and thus, the one the player controls.

Sans also gives us this message by calling Frisk's phone, like any other:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC1NyOIm03A

So if he's giving us the message by contacting Frisk, then he's aware of the connection between the player and Frisk.

So yes, he'd know that the player is controlling Frisk.

Idk the fact that Undertale is canonicaly a game since anoying dog has a cover of Undertale's game??In hacker ending,Sans even hints that the game belongs to the player now,alowing them to control the underground by manipulating files.

The cover matches the game that Mettaton has in his news. So that's the game the Annoying Dog has. Seems like he made it, too.

"By barking with text-to-speech on, the dog accidentally programmed a whole game"-Chara, when analyzing the game case

The fact itself that he's be able to hack the game kinda proves that the story canonicaly happen in a video game and implies that hacker ending is canon since the game can canonicaly be hacked.

That was just one explanation for the LV9999. Another could be that the limit of 20 only applies to humans, or only applies to monsters, and Flowey gained it both by absorbing the six human SOULs, and his MASSIVE intent to kill us (since LV is how much you distance yourself from the world) And I already pointed out a problem with this interpretation.

Nothing even proves that Hard mode isn't canon.

Here, I'll give you the relevant quote from my original post:

"And most bizzarely of all, Toriel doesn't die because she doesn't see the point:Hard Mode's over. Because the Annoying Dog said so. Flowey also scoffs at us for playing in Hard Mode, after expecting to meet us in the next room, and growing impatient. Yet if we wait in the Ruins in Normal Mode, Flowey never grows impatient."

That introduces the Annoying Dog and his ending to the picture

"So if Hard Mode is canon, both Toriel and Flowey are aware that they are within a game... And are acting out the script. Chara is also aware of this, because they mention Napstablook not getting the memo. Yet they trait their own past as real, despite knowing it is false. Since Toriel can just live like that, the monster science regarding SOULsis wrong.. Meaning everyone in the entire Underground is making an elaborate conspiracy... And the story of Undertale is entirely fictional... Within Undertale's universe."

"The Annoying Dog also assumes that Toriel is supposed to be dying... Even if Toriel was spared. Which would mean that sparing isn't canonical after all, if Hard Mode is canon. We must reject the canonicity of one of these two things. (That or the Annoying Dog isn't aware of his own conspiracy... Which doesn't work:You can't create a plan and not know what it is.)"

So either sparing is non-canon, or Hard Mode is. I'm keeping the idea of sparing as canon.

And I'll end off with the beginning of my explanation for the HUD's origins (Well, at least the parts that aren't already explained by the substance of Determination)

In the first image of the intro, we see a human weilding a weapon by their left hand. Which is rather strange, because left-handed humans are quite rare.

But it's not just the first image. In the image of the war.. The humans are still holding weapons with their left hand.

Now, where is the FIGHT button on the battle screen? The left. Who has initiative in battles? Humans. It's quite clear why the humans won. Back in the state of nature, monsters and humans probably would have preyed on each other. ...Okay, probably just humans preying on monsters for the magical loot, as on their own, they probably don't know magic, and human food for monsters.. Well, you've seen how good it is. Insta-healing... And it's something they can't create of their own. Any non-magical species would eventually want to steal such food from them. Before humans and monsters met, monsters didn't HAVE the ability to take out your SOUL in the first place. They were the only ones with SOULs, so the ability was useless. Why would they evolve such thing before? So the first humans to take monsters' food did so successfully. So the monsters had three options:Find some way to hide themselves and their food, evolve to be stronger... Which would take away from their magical potential, as it requires more physical matter, or just learn to use another spell-A cheap way to basically instakill the humans.

...Evolution only cares about survival. It doesn't lean towards what's more fair. The latter thing will evolve, because it's easier.

So, what is this "cheap spell"? The ability to take a human's SOUL out of their body. Without the ability to control the SOUL, this would leave the human completely helpess-So they're as good as dead. And all it takes is one extra spell.

Only humans who could control their SOUL had a chance at survival. (And humans who were lucky enough to find a proto-monster who didn't have this ability, first. For a while, it was still worth it. Evolution happens gradually over time.) They could simply move it back in their body, and not be helpless anymore.. Then, the battle box evolved, made by the monsters to entrap the SOUL, so that it can't just return back to the body. Lemon Bread is able to control the size of it, and so can Flowey... And Sans. So this is an evolution on the monster side of things.

At this point, humans were at a stalemate. In this case, they were trapped, and the monster could fire off as many attacks as they need to, to simply kill the human.

But if they could find a way to create a tunnel using some magic to escape the box.. A tunnel between their body and the battle box.. Which we observe as the below the box. (The monster is in front of us, and we observe them as above the box. So the buttons below are closer to us) They could do that, and survive once again. Flee was born. But fleeing doesn't always work. Sometimes, the monster catches up in time. And what's the OTHER part of the survival instinct?

Fight or Flight

FIGHT is the next command added to the HUD. The strategy of just running away was working, but not well enough. And the SOUL couldn't just physically HOLD a weapon-It's pure essence, determination, and magic, and has no appendages! So it needs another way to make use of weapons. But what if.. rather than HOLDING the weapon, it channels the magical potential of the weapon instead, making a somewhat magical recreation of the effect, by? (This is the reason why you can fire an Empty Gun.) You just need to focus your SOUL magic.. With a link between the SOUL and weapon. Flee was already on the right side... So Fight would be on the left. This is why only one weapon can be equipped at a time... And why humans only fought with their left hands. There was now an evolutionary advantage of being left-handed.

Humans naturally had weapons quite often-Animals are a thing too, you know. (Like snails and birds, for example.) And humans were still hunters. So weapons were already a thing. This was just a way to use them in the SOUL-struck state!

And it was Super Effective!

Monsters weren't adapted to actually BEING attacked. Their own food was magical in nature, and their only rival, the humans, had no real way of attacking them, since up until this point, they could just remove a human's SOUL from their body, and score a free kill, with no chance of a retaliation attack-At worst, the human just gets away. So, they haven't exactly evolved very much defense. ..Or offense, for that matter. And why would they? That requires more physical matter, and doing that would take away from how much of them is made of magic, and thus, their magical potential! And since this wasn't a classical "physical" attack, but more of a virtual attack, it couldn't even be seen!

This gave the humans an edge over the monsters.