Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-32182236-20180908195543

"I'm sorry, but it is. It's both stated AND correlated."

Oh, it was stated? Why didn't you use that evidence earlier? Okay, I'll have a look at it.

"According to the first plaque, human souls have a power called "soul strength"."

It simply said it was the strength of their SOULs. Nothing more.

"Next, on the following plaque, the term "soul power" is used as a synonym for soul strength."

Actually, that term is not used. "Its power allows it to persist outside the human body, even after death."

This is referring to the power of that strength. "SOUL power" was never used here. Just the power of the strength:And the ability to persist past death definitely qualifies as a power. So not only is there no link to Alphys' SOUL power, as Malice pointed out, but there's no link to a "SOUL power" at all:Merely a power, an ability, of the SOUL. That can be just about anything, though the context makes it clear it's talking about DT, just as you deduced below.

"So either we have two types of soul power in the game, or I'm simply right."

Or the latter isn't even called "SOUL power."

"(1) Humans have lots of DT, monsters don't.

(2) The barrier is held together by "soul power" and requires 7 human souls, or 6 human souls and (guesstimate) thousands of monster souls. Therefore, one can assume that ~1000M = 1H. And if that is true, then 1M = H/~1000 is also true, ergo, that monsters have very little soul power, whereas humans have plenty of it.

(3) Meaning that humans have both plenty of DT, as well as soul power, and monsters have very little of both. Ergo, that soul power and DT are very similar to each other in terms of their intensity and distribution along the souls of living creatures."

In the case of monsters and DT, we're only told that they can't hold as much determination as humans can-We're not given a ratio. Therefore, the only meaningful correlation is that humans have more DT, and more SOUL power. Pick 2 random variables, and compare the values with a sample size of 2-You have a 50% chance of getting a positive correlation, and a 50% chance of getting a negative correlation, because your sample size is far too small (two races). p=.5, far, far above the value we usually give α, .05. With that data alone, you fail to reject the null hypothesis. There is no signficiant relationship between the two. Now, if we found direct evidence that changing one changes the other, instead of just looking at two races and going "Hey, humans have more DT, and they have more SOUL power:So they're the same!", you'd have a better case.

"For this correlation, any single piece of evidence that soul power is NOT capable of doing the things that DT is would be enough to shatter this assumption."

I would say Asriel and Omega Flowey. You can LOAD by closing the game in Asriel's fight, but you can't in Omega Flowey's fight. Now we have "evidence" for both sides-Yours is a mere correlation, which doesn't imply a causation anyway, and with a pitifully high p value, isn't significant anyway, and mine requires you to create a whole new rule just to explain in your terms. So, which evidence is stronger?

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With that gone, a lot of your next post is invalidated. I'll respond to the parts that DON'T rely on your assumption being true.

"So rather, the solution to this contradiction is saying that Asgore was simply holding back way too much when he fought us, whereas with the other children, he was going full out."

While we do have reason to believe that Asgore would be holding back more in Frisk's case than for other children, seeing as they're literally the final human before Asgore would have to take your SOUL and actually go along with what he said he'd do, Toriel's lines imply he never wanted to fight the humans at all-We certainly shouldn't be expecting him to, for example, destroy the FIGHT button or dodge-He had no reason to use these techniques when he's trying to lose, because just about all of monsterkind didn't even know these tactics existed. You might end up with a hard fight, but if Sans' fight tells us anything (other than the fact that genocide is a bad idea), it's that determination can still win even in such a hard fight. We don't give up against Sans, they don't give up against Asgore.

"I'd rather say that red implies they have no specialization."

Looking at the 1st red flag alone, it implies balance between the six traits. Adding the 2nd flag onto that, it implies that you continue to be yourself, no matter what happens. That's blue, original style, and a small hint of some of the other traits exist within them-And if we use Malice's definition of the yellow trait, all of them.

From the flags alone, it's clear that red is a balance of the six traits before. Not necessarily a mastery of them all, but a balance of them.

"Because then, it truly could be anything. Think about it, what is Frisk good at? We all play the game differently, it's hard to say. It's neither patience, nor bravery, nor any of those."

I made a list of why yes, we do display these traits. Well, I did three of them, and Malice did the other three. But here's the list in full again, with some extra commentary on Malice's half. Oh, and I'm remastering my half, but these are based on the list I gave before.

Perseverance: By continuing to fight the obstacles in your journey, even as you fail (Stay determined!), you're displaying perseverance.

Bravery: By continuing your journey, beyond the door of the Ruins, despite the warnings of dangers ahead, and the fates of the six who came before you, you're displaying bravery.

Kindness:Every time you go out of your way to either spare or kill a monster, you demonstrate that you care enough to act on the matter-Whether you hate monsters, and take passion in killing them all, or are merciful, and care for them, you show that you care.

Justice: By continuing to pursue your goal of sparing/killing monsters, you're showing that you see either goal as just.

(Note from me-THA:As you may have read here, I've devised a way that Malice's definition can fit with my definition of "order"-If justice is the order of principals, the rules that are to be followed, then when used in a moral standpoint, what we have is dictionary justice, which is what Malice gives-So our definitions don't conflict.)

Patience: A core aspect of getting what you want, and achieving your goal, is patience. If you didn't have the capability to wait and bide your time to achieve either, then you'd either quit due to impatience, stop in rage, or rage quit. By biding your time in a fight, waiting to spare or attack, you show patience in achieving your goal.

(Another note:Yes, there is patience involved, in all three routes. Whether it's Undyne's fight in Pacifist (wait until your SOUL turns red again), Asriel's fight in Pacifist (wait until the opportunity comes to SAVE your friends), Omega Flowey's fight in Neutral (you have to wait until the FIGHT button appears), or Sans' fight in Genocide (special attack comes to mind here), there are points in time where you must simply wait. Patience does indeed strictly apply here.)

Integrity: By continuing to pursue your goals through the actions you chose, you're staying true to yourself and your choices; displaying integrity.

(Third note:No matter which path you take, you're choosing YOUR path. ...Yes, this is a trait that just about anyone would have. ...This applies to all 6 traits, which thus gives everyone some of the seventh trait as well.)

"And yet, we can display or be affected by all of them in the game."

We HAVE to display them all, and the SOUL modes are simply a form of magic-They aren't literally the traits themselves.

"It seems like Frisk's capabilities and preferences are mixed / undecided by nature."

Yes, they're mixed. This is consistent with Red Flag #1.

"If they decide that their puropse is DT, then red is DT. If they decide that their friendship with the monsters is the most important thing, then red is friendship."

So you're suggesting their trait is whatever they're passionate most about? ...But isn't passion green?