Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-37133944-20190619231203

(P.S. I am a new fan of undertale so i didn't have time to go through everything. all I ever did uptill now is finishing 3/4 pacifist run,and read fanfictions, so i have spoiled most of the game without actually playing, so maybe i am saying something eveyone or no one knows idont know.)

Okay, so as you start the game your sould is red, which is the determination; however when you fight photoshop Flowey ( who has several souls), it's said/implied that he has a stronger determination,making him take control over the SAVE/RELOAD.

That led me to thinking, what if determination means having several soul traits?

for differentiation, we are gonna call this determination type, a Technical Determination.

1.Toby tells us about of the meaning of every color in that Snowdin game;

      Yellow-Justice, 

      Orange-Bravery, 

      Green-Kindness

      Blue-Integrity, 

      Magenta-Perseverence, 

      Light Blue-Patience

2.In the lab, we see the DT extractor, containing a red heart, which means that red is determination.

3. Another thing I noticed is that the colors of the characters express their personalities:

Sans-integrated to stay lazy/logical/stop you

Mettaton-perseversed to continue the show despite difficulties he's facing in pacif./geno./neut. run.

MonsKid- likes Undyne's sense of justice and brave enough to stand against her for you. In genocide, he is brave enough to not listen to her. I think bravery includes foolishness (as MK is in geno run) with what is written on the plate in the very first puzzle after taking the stairs at the very beginning.( i can't rememer exactly what was written but you could check it out.)

Toriel-perseversed to make you stay (seriously like 20 lines to make her allow you to go outside.), she also has brown eyes which you can only see in her detailed sprite(aka when fighting).

...I am too lazy to continue listing all characters. XD

About the brown/dark red eyes of Toriel, we only see that color other than with toriel(I think) on Frisk's shoes, and Chara's pants, and Chara's jumpscare, pouring out of their eyes, which I think is the LOVE/determination accumulated after terminating many monsters.

And Goatmom having that color, expresses having no problem fighting/hurting you.(maybe)

4.we can't judge frisk and chara by the hair/skin color because that's racist; so saying chara having brown hair doesn't mean being genocidal, nor frisk having yellow skin, means having a sense of justice. They both are humans and can do bad or good while still sticking to their colothes' colors's meaning.

howeever with this point and point 3, we have three options for brown color:

A.either toriel did kill someone before (which is nearly impossible given how she acts),

B.or that brown has another meaning; which I think should be fear, as toriel is afraid of what you could do given your soul color/being a human. that also means that chara was a coawrd child/usually anxietic kid.(more on that later.)

C.eye color isn't important as it's something genetic like the hair/skin case, and should be ignored unless during a fight it changes.(sans)

...i am gonna go with brown-fear.

which goes smoothly with frisk'shoes color, expressing frisk as being afraid after falling.

5.Going with that logic, that means that frisk is patient and perseversed, and chara is kind and does justice (I believe in a way, killing the player for killing all monsters IS serving justice.), and/or is a fan of Undyne like MK.

6.Flowey explains the White pellets as a way of expressing LOVE, but all monsters have some white in their sprites, because they are made of hope, compassion and love. (personally i think mosnters love eachother, not necessirely humans too, and that's why white attacks hurt you -they express violence, as in LOVE. this personal idea comes from seeing the monsters continue fighting even though you have satisfied whatever they wanted from you to spare, as they really do not like you,but rather want you dead, human, which I believe is what Floewey was trying to say by 'kill or be killed'.)

so white-love/LOVE

7.black generally speaking means death, mysteriousness, sorrow, or separation/defninition.

A.Gaster, as a way of expressing mysteriousness, or that whatever the freak happened to gaster, when he fell into the core,was mid-battle, seeing all fights are in black. (which could also be the meaning of gaster being spread across time and space)

B.used as an outerline for visuals

C.no damage, as moving around with your soul during a fight doesn't damage you. (nothingness)

D. used between different colors in monsters' sprites only(I mean the inner parts not the outerlines), which could express their sorrow / depression of living underground. Also most likely expresses definition; that however many runs you do, all monsters still act the same, or sticking to whatever they define themselves.

I am saying:* outer black line = difinition

*inner black lines/parts = sorrow

E. NOT used between different colors in monsters' sprites only; if you look at chara's/frisk's sprites, there's no black lines between the inner parts(the stripes), nor outlines.

-that neither frisk nor chara suffered sadness/sorrow overground;

-that frisk/chara/player can change heart between every run.

-that a human can have several soul traits (aka half-patient,half-perseversed like frisk, aka possessing several human magic at the same time but would affect the strength of each), but most importantly that soul colors could be mixed or separated.

also, black having several meanings should emply mysteriousness.

so black-definition and nothingness and possibly sorrrow

8. Gray; I didn't have enough time to think about it but I would tie it with being emotionlessness/emptiness, like Undyne's armor(she ignores your pleads), or Mettaton being just a robot with no emotion( the toaster form i mean XD)(also more on the 'no emotion' part later .)

Also seeing that monsters' attacks depend on how they stongly feel, their attacks' damages vary (being made of love,hope and compassion), and letting sorrow(black) taking over them; mixing with their love(white attacks), make it futile. the perfect example is napstablook's 'not looking forward to it right now' attack, which doeesn't damage you. also could explain why when a fight finishes (kill/successfully spare a monster.) they become grey, which as of writing, I would tie it with them failing at capturing you/frisk/chara (a human) which is depressing to them,

so grey-emotionlessness/emptiness

note that: black means nothing, as in null, zero damage.., while grey means emptiness, as in existing but with effect. that goes well with the grey background of the city when entering asgore's castle(when flowey pleads you in geno)

9.Gold/Bright Yellow: specifically speaking about the save points, Asgore's armor, and the buttons (FIGHT,ACT,ITEM,MERCY,ERASE...)... All I could I think about is royalty and the powers of the player. I have an idea but ther's no real evidence



Going back to the human souls, sincs chara is inside/with frisk, frisk's patience and perseverence is mixed with chara's kindness and justice,also frisk's patience and perseverence (using substractive colors scientific theory/CMYK colors) would produce blue (integrity).

so the player/chara/frisk has a bit of patience, perseverence,kindness, kustice and integrity.

which results in having: Technical Determination, (that has the ability to save and reload).

Since chara died and didn't return to the life that means they didn't have technical determination, meaning that in order to have that you neeed to have several soul traits at the same time; not only 3 like chara (fear, kindness, justice) or like frisk(patience, persev.,integ.) or even 4 if we included frisk's/chara's black eyes ( the -_- and the ' u ' ) in that, chara still died meaning that 4 colors weeren't enough.

That means we need at least any 5 souls parts/bits in order to have a technical determination soul.

Going back to Photoshop Flowey:

Flowey = Experimental Determination + 6 souls     = 7 soul traits

you/frisk/chara = 2 chara + 2 frisk+ 1 fear (brown)  = 5 soul traits

(If chara and frisk had different shoes colors, the fight would have been easier xP)

interestingly enough, the only difference between you and photoshop flowey is bravery, experimental determination.



About determination(red):

My theory is there are several types: natural/normal determination, technical determination, experimnetal/artificial deetermination

-a human with natural determination, which has red as one of his colors (a KFC cashier XD); could also have other colors with him/her.

-technical determination, that's several souls at the same time.

-experimental/artificial determination, like flowey, which could have been made by forcing several samples from each of the fallen humans to combine, or really just made from scratch.(I actually still didn't reach alphys so i can't theorise.)

whatever the case maybe,that soul in the DT extractor, most probably is artificial, otherwise the monsters would have broken the barrier long ago. so artificial < natural.



About the human powers and monsters' magic.(contains speculation)

1.Human powers:

a.(factual):

-Justice/yellow/serving justice/projectiles

-Perseverence/purple/finding a way out/lines

-Kindness/greeen/scanning the enemy to know what the want exactly/the green matrix background(not in genocide i think)

-Integrity/blue/protecting youl ideals/the blue shield during Undyne's

b.(theoritical):

-Patience/light blue/surviving hardships/in last sans attack, when he keeps pushing you arround with gravity, your hp never goes lower than one.(it appears blue not light blue cuz of sans' magic's color)

-Bravery/orange/not caring about possible consequences?/????

-Determination/doing something again n again till you succeed/

1.the save points heals you(refilling hp and/or never reaching zero hp)

2.determining other's fate (pun intended)

3.unblockable(more later)

2.Monster's Magic:

going with above facts/theories,that contradicts the inability to switch your soul to whatever mode.

Unless...monster magic includes blooking certain soul traits, so they could deal with one soul trait while capturing a human, instead of several.

Toriel/Asgore: blocks patience and determination

Papyrus:blocks everything except patience and determination

Undyne:blocks everything except kindness and integrity

Mettaton: apparently nothing, like Napstablook

Alphys :cellphone was able to block everything except justice and determination

Sans:blocks everything sans Patience and determination. (pun intended)

Flowey: two possibilites: block everything except patience and maybe determination, or nothing.

Photoshop F: everything except his everything

Asriel Dr.:everything except .00000000000001 of  determination



lastly:

-i think because you/frisk/chara wear a light blue shirt so maybe toriel theorised you having a patient soul and having no problem at waiting.

-there's a possibility that patience and integrity are swapped

-monsters' magic's blockings's exceptions represent their personality during the fights,

except omega F, he smokes weed.

-papyrus, without the red and yellow parts(things that he want to become) is the same as sans

hence represent the same blockings

-I did consider Chara's brown-liquid and not exclude it, as it isnt somehting a normal human would do.

there's no need to include it as we can include brown from the shoes. 