Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190617222636/@comment-32182236-20190718120337

I still think the idea of destroying the Ruins door is silly. What do you get afterwards? A broken doorway that anyone can walk through.

This is why I pointed out that this would take a long time to do correctly. You'd have to take apart the door bit-by-bit, replacing each part of it with more wall.

That's an interesting point, that if you try to stay with Toriel, you get a dream message (seems to be from Asgore?) that you need to wake up again: https://youtu.be/J595cpbW6ps?t=67

Although, you can actually go up to bed, and go to sleep, and wake up when it's dark.. then go downstaris.. and Toriel is still standing right in the same spot you left her.

...Alright.. Allow me to go back to the Ruins for a while. I'll have to theorize on where the light is coming from... As these are caverns, it can't be coming from the sun. It'd be like in Waterfall, where monsters had no magic or light to guide them home.

...Which brings me to a new argument.

There exists an ancient glyph that mentions this occurance. It specifies how monsters used these magic crystals to help them navigate.

In the past-tense. So it was made as if they already made this navigation before. Thus, even though this is probably referring to the original trip to HOME, it must have been written on the trip to New Home.

So the trip to New Home happened so long ago that the glyphs written during that time are now ancient.

Since they also state that no human will ever fall, and no entrances or exits exist, that means they also pre-date Chara. But we also know that it was after the birth of Asriel, so it wasn't that long before Chara did fall-Unless monster growth is slower than human growth (which makes sense when we consider Gerson's lifespan.) You do later make an argument that they must be similar, but that's presuming Chara spent at least a half-year underground and would need to change clothes at all-The plan very well could have literally started the following spring, so only around 3 months later.

So either monsters don't mature nearly as fast as humans... Or Chara's fall was either nearly, or ACTUALLY ancient. (~8 years away from being ancient is pretty long ago.)

If we take Deltarune into consideration, monsters and humans progress through school using the same system. Grown-up Monster Kid is in high school with Kris. This would imply that they're around the same age. So if Deltarune is to be taken into consideration, the former possibility is wrong... Meaning the latter is all that remains. Chara's fall was practically ancient.

She's had hours to destroy the door. And has done nothing, but wait for you to arrive.

So back to the intial question:Where is the light coming from? If it's not sunlight, it can't be said that it was hours.. And as the dream interrupted us, it probably hasn't been hours-Especially since no matter how many times we do this, the Froggit will still say in the epilouge that he did a big favor for you today (He only says this if you talked to him to make the names pink by disabling them and re-enabling them).

Toriel would say "Up already?" after you wake up. It wasn't a few hours. I think it was a few minutes, just like in the Snowdin Inn.

And as for the light? Recall that there are no windows in the room. The light must be coming from inside the room. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y81WyaZhIo0

Toriel turned off the light when we were asleep. (I also noticed the "click" sound also plays as soon as Frisk gets to bed. It seems the click sound is a generic one.)

Something's definitely up.

Perhaps. About how long would it take you to think about how to destroy the door bit-by bit and replacing it with bricks, without accidentially just destroying the whole thing and leaving a huge opening.. Even allowing Asgore a chance to come back?

I don't think it's that Alphys is struggling to recall how she met Sans.. I think it's a sensitive detail that she doesn't want to tell everyone in the room about.

I suppose if they know that Alphys and Sans originally worked for Gaster... Oh wait. She's a Royal Scientist. It wouldn't be that much of a suprise.

But yes, perhaps they met somewhere else, and Sans' response was to help her out, and change the subject-in which case Sans did a pretty good job.

It might cause problems, if she admitted to helping hide and aid and abet a human in some wild scheme, with King Asgore right there listening in the room.

She doesn't have to say that Sans is a human! Just that Gaster partnered her with Sans!

Gaster wasn't erased, he was shattered across time and space. Basically killed, in this timeline. It shouldn't effect other's memory of him.. unless something wierd is going on.

Considering the fate of the followers, and how your phone doesn't work when you're near one, I think it's pretty likely that something weird is indeed going on.

There might be a link between Lancer and Sans, I'm not well enough versed in Deltarune to weight in on that yet though.

My proposed link is simply that Sans and Lancer are both Darkners.

And Sans being a Darkner is why he bleeds.

By the way, have you noticed how the transport doors in Deltarune look very similar to the door to Sans' room? Air underneath the door and all.

It's odd that our phone doesn't work around the Followers, but our phone does work during the Memoryhead fight.

The Memoryhead is an Amalgamate. Not a Follower. He was created long after the fall of Gaster.

Undyne specifically states the only reason monsters have modern technology is because they studied human garbage that has washed down from above.

Yes. Modern from their perspective. If we're used to having spaceships that travel in hyperspace, we're going to call THAT modern technology, instead of futuristic technology. Because we'd have them.

Gaster was a different source of technology entirely, that could do things that even the surface humans couldn't.

But THAT is what the monsters would call modern technology for them. The human technology would be far outdated, and behind what the monsters typically use.

The one thing we know for certain that the monsters get from the humans is.. Anime. And that's specifically Alphys and Undyne-With Undyne being the one telling us about this cool modern technology. (And remember, she thinks anime is real.)

If the technology in the garbage dump was from humans... They wouldn't have called it modern technology. Catty and Bratty call the stuff they found there "junk". (Well, one of them do, the ither says it isn't. ...I'm not sure which one.) Because it is. Literally garbage. Not modern technology-Gaster is their modern technology, just like in a few centuries, hyperspace could be OUR "modern" technology.

Ancient Egypt didn't call itself ancient when it was new.

That's why tracking the spread of Gaster's otherworldly technology is a good barometer to how long it's been since he arrived in the underground. If a long time had passed, his future tech would have been everywhere in the Underground.

Or at least everywhere that even has a good amount of knowledge about it PERIOD.

The Ruins is isolated from the rest of the underground. Only Gaster's tech from BEFORE the move would make it there. A 1980's phone made in ancient times is pretty Gaster-like, but only if it was quite early on in his career.

Snowdin appears to be a more traditional town. And not a very smart one, either. Library is mispelled, and as I presented earlier, the books we find in the library are basically school reports-One book even flat-out contains the author asking if they're at the page minimum. This line got in the final published version..

If I made a bad fanfiction of Undertale... It might actually get published in that library. They don't seem to have standards.

Though the technology isn't entirely missing.. The inn magically heals all who sleeps there... And even brings you ABOVE max HP.

But what we seem to have a traditional town, with a place called Grillby's where everyone just hangs out (Probably a bar, actually). And the main attraction is the Skelebros.