Board Thread:Wiki Discussion/@comment-25958552-20160731111602/@comment-32182236-20171227140604

"They're like Flowey, when Asriel and Chara's fusion turned to dust their COMBINED soul was destroyed, when the flower that grew in the dust was injected with Determination it brought back Asriel, who was scared and confused, commited suicide, reloaded due to determination and decided to use his abilities for good under the name Flowey (confirming that being soulless doesn't make you evil,btw) but when he got tired of that he got curious and did bad, he didn't like it at first but what being soulless seems to do is remove the moral compass and make it easier to switch between good and evil, and he did, we see after everything in pacifist, neutral, or genocide he regrets what he did or is doing and becomes good. Chara goes through the same thing. Flowey tell us Toriel buried Chara's body in the first room of the game, where the yellow flowers now grow (morbidly, but naturally from the body's...nutrients.), Frisk fell on that grave. Chara tells us at the end of genocide that they were brought back to life from OUR Determination.. straight and simple, the True lab experiment that created Flowey occured here as well, Chara was brought back to life just by being in Frisk's presense, as a soulless entity."

That's just it. Flowey tried to be good. Chara just started being evil right away.

"They then tell us that our guidance made them realize the purpose of their re-encarnation... OUR. GUIDANCE."

No, they say our guidance brought them back to life.

"Why was I brought back to life? You. With your guidance."

"As the one who presses FIGHT Chara is not the killer."

Yeah, I'm not one of those who blame the entire route on Chara. Frisk very well is evil in that route too, and I do not want to just void them of responsibility like some people do... But Chara guided them on that route, told them they shouldn't proceed in Waterfall when they went out to face Undne before killing all the monsters. When you fail to kill Snowdrake:"Missed that comedian. Failure." It's clear Chara WANTS to kill.

"And it's not just that, Frisk and Chara have talked, Chara has possessed Frisk in every run. Whenever you check something, a little voice with a unique vocabulary explains stuff to us we wouldn't know."

Yeah, Chara's the narrator. They're helping us kill everyone even though we're a human and they supposedly hated humanity.

"they've done things for Frisk, such as keeping them from making decisions. Gift> Money "Hey, now. You're not made of money." -voice. Or reading to them. "It's a book on monster history! Here's a random page (Frisk: I didn't do that!) then a passage is read."

Yep, they sure like helping a genocidal human, and doesn't want them giving money as presents, and wants them to learn the history of monsters so it can be used against them.

"The voice also has very biased opinions, when you do something wrong they tell you they are disgusted with you. "You took more candy... how disgusting."

They don't like that you took more than one candy, but they do like that you're literally murdering everyone. Because logic!

"Another interesting thing is the voice we get when we die, it's a memory of Asgore telling Chara to never give up, stay determined, come back..." Projected on to us from... someone... Or how about that random time we got a memory of Chara meeting Asriel randomly in the middle of our journey...  "My name is . . ." Weird... Or how about the fact the memory we see at the beginning of the game is of Chara, not Frisk. ..."

Like I said, Chara wants to help the human kill the monsters.

"Somebody wants the run to be done like ripping a bandaid, quick and painful... somebody has lost hope in Frisk."

No, they just want to get to the point already and to stop wasting time letting the monsters live. "Just kill the monster, Frisk! KILL IT!" If they lost hope in Frisk and wanted to stop them, they'd stop giving that message to Frisk and just let them die.

"Undyne the Undying. The Heroine that NEVER gives up."

As Naptasblook and Vulkin show, monsters can also hear the narrator. They don't want to arouse suspicion.

"You feel like you're going to have a bad time."

Not because you killed everyone, but because Sans has caught on to you and his boss fight is extra difficult.

"When Asriel/Flowey is killed, interestingly it takes a button press to coax that same someone to finish the job, as if they couldn't do it..."

It also takes a button press to advance through dialogue. The same button, in fact-Z. We just advanced through the scene, we didn't press "FIGHT".

"interesting, when we come back to the game, or if we say yes and come back to the game, they start scolding us, telling us that this is all our fault and that we think we're above concequences.. why are they so mad?"

Because you want to bring back the world you just destroyed. You want to turn around and start being a good guy now. Alternatively, Chara just made it all up to coerce Frisk into giving away their SOUL. Remember, the plan was to erase the world and move onto the next. We're never given the choice to move onto the next. Chara lied to us.

"(Interesting detail, Chara believes Toriel knows best for us. " TORIEL - ATK DEF  Knows best for you.")"

Yep, she does. And yet they still want her dead.

"Chara says "Greetings." and rarely uses "it's" in favor of "It is." like Toriel. Seems they had favorite parents."

Maybe they did. They were raised by the monsters, so their speech adapted to that.

"And you people have forgotten that, FIGHTing was your choice, not theirs. Chara didn't do anything, but sit and watch and learn, like any child does."

Fighting was both our choice and Chara's. We fought, Chara wanted us to fight, we could have chosen mercy but chose to go with Chara. Also, we're a human. Chara hated humanity. Why are they trusting us, a HUMAN, to guide them, when they hated humanity, and they just died to humans?

" And they want to punish us, that's exactly what they do, when they ask for our Soul, and constantly remind us on post pacifist genocide runs that we killed everyone with that x's picture.... "

No, they go on to kill everyone, as the ending with them laughing evilly shows. They want our soul because they know with it, they can possess us. It's like selling your soul to the devil. This is also why they encouraged a pacifist route after the second genocide run, they want to kill everyone on the surface too.

"You are wracked with a perverted sentementality."

They then ask whether we should destroy it or not. If we say now, they say "This is the feeling I spoke of". The perverted sentimentality is that we keep wanting to bring the world back instead of just leaving it destroyed. That we want a pointless world.

Then there's the whole thing about the spirit of the game being nobody's truly evil. Well news flash, Asriel himself would disagree with you there.

"There are a lot of Floweys out there. And not everything can be resolved just by being nice."

Even Asriel acknolweges there are those who are truly evil. And since these "Floweys" have a SOUL, they don't get the same excuse as Asriel. They're Floweys because they like it, it's not like they all also have an Asriel inside of them.