Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31536324-20190117214835/@comment-35806478-20190206192510

"So, in any way she DOESNT mean that dt is firmess of purpose in general. She said that dt is "the firmess to CHANGE FATE". Now whats "fate"? Fate is something that's natural, thats written, that must happen. In the context of Undertale that can only mean two things either he events after each recept. They all repeat exactly the same unless Frisk is acting differently. So yes, that can be "the resolve to change fate "shes talking or death, something thats reserved to every living being is death, something that will happen regardlees the circumstances. Humans can persist after it thanks to dt so it can be the "resolve to change fate"shes talking about aswell

Whhats the more correct choice?? Remember, not all humans who die have the recept power, so the "resolve to change fate"is likely NOT the will to change events that will repeat but all humans MUST die, so thats the "fate"she was refering too. Plus she was likely talking about the feeling humans have when they dies as the soul's persistence only happens when humans dies, dt is something they feel when they dies:the will to overcome death, thats what allow their souls to exist.

Most importantly, dt is a a physical SUBSTANCE while personality's traits ARENT,so again dt is unlikely the red trait because traits aren't subtances that you can extract like dt."

1. Stop saying 'recept'. Frisk is not a receptionist.

2. Lots of fiction deals with trying to change fate. In some stories, fate is changed. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking of X-Men: Future Past. Clearly you have no right to claim whether fate can be changed or not in this Undertale story.

3. If we say that fate can be changed, then using the general "resolve to change fate" is better than using the more specific "will to overcome death" or whatever.

4. Who said DT can't be extracted just because it's a personality trait? Why can't an emotion be hardened like ice and injected into another being?

"So,JUST BECAUSE FRISK SHOWS SO MUCH DT A SINGLE TIME DOESNT MEAN THEIR TRAIT IS RED. All fallen humans could do it aswell if their friends are in danger, especially that dt is so far only described as a "power"not trait, nothing implies that this power turn into a trait if is someone has more of it than any other trait. After, all Frisk's determination ALWAYS fluctuate,so can be weaker too"

...Well Frisk's SOUL is red, so their trait is red. But I think that's not what you meant.

Yes, DT can fluctuate. Yes, all beings (with a SOUL, more on that later) can have DT. But Frisk has LOTS of DT, so that's why their SOUL is the red DT trait. Simple.

"The world's destruction is definitely not the fate,its isnt something determined unless Frisk dies and Asriel make a true recept, so Frisk has no resolve "to change fate"but to make things better, to save their friends. They were determined to LIVE ON regadless the mortal danger to save their friends"

Again, which definition of fate are we using? Also you said 'true recept'.

" Now youre giving your own definition of determination "

Do you not have the ability to extrapolate? What he meant is that DT is LIKE playing a hard level over and over to get the best score.

" Again, NOTHING implies that you need any soul to have dt, dt is just A psychological feeling, so that anyone can have. Just because Frisk's dt resurrected them doesnt proove anything "

SOULless beings cannot feel emotions. Dumbass.

Flowey cannot feel love, compassion nor hope. And if you try to say "Flowey can feel things like fear and heartless glee" Those are negative emotions. No proof that Flowey, or any other SOULless beings for that matter, can feel neutral emotions like DT.

" Oh yeah of course frisk would listen Asgore while hes speaking to someone else. How could his voice make him determined at all? Combine this with how Chara describes themself, "the demon that comes when people call tit name"then it appears like Chara is the one who return to the save point when Asgore pronounce their name "

Okay, to counter your first point I'm going to write out a little something.

'Oh hey, I hear a voice in my head! It's telling someone else to be determined, though. But I bet this memory is coming from that other voice inside my head that narrates everything I do! This message must be directed to me in particular, even though it doesn't explicitly say my name. I can tell because why else would I be getting this message? Obviously the voice inside of my head is trying to help me stay determined! Boy, I sure do love being a normal, functioning, and determined human being!'

Also the point of 'demon that comes when people call its name' is refering to the character naming screen. The character you name at the start of the game is Chara; therefore that makes Chara the demon that comes when people call its name, or name it.

" Iam not such a dumbass, i KNOW IT. Flowey was injected of dt to come back but absolutely nothing implies that he cant have his own "will to keep living"once alive. Flowey himself says that he had his own determination as he was afraid to die, not because something he doenst understand in him pushed him to come back to his save point "

Hahahahahaha. You claim you're not a dumbass while ignoring what I've just said; SOULLESS BEINGS CANNOT FEEL NEUTRAL EMOTION!

" Fate is something that must happen, death is a fate as all living creatures will die, with dt you're struggling to live longer so change fate "

No. Stop assuming one definition of fate.

" Dt is the "will to keep living", "the resolve to change fate"EVERYONE CAN FEEL THOSE THINGS "

Unless they have no SOUL. Like Flowey and Chara.

" They only said that they come back thanks to frisks dt not that they don't have any. "

Unless they have no SOUL. Like Flowey and Chara.

" Flowey says that he we was determined to live on not because something inside of him pushed but because of his personal fear of death."

No.

The specific line is:

But as I left this mortal coil...I started to feel apprehensive.If you don't have a SOUL, what happens when you...?Something primal started to burn inside me.[https://hushbugger.github.io/dialogue/#Flowey:331 No, I thought. "I don't want to die!"]Then I woke up."

Nowhere does it say that Flowey had his own personal fear of death. The only reason he felt DT is because he had DT injected into him. You can't prove otherwise.

" Every single conscious being can have "the will to keep living" "

Do I really have to repeat myself?

" Where is it implied? Heck the save points are even under CHARAS NAME not Frisk's "

That's cool but that doesn't prove anything

" ALL THEORIES COMBINE CORRELATION AND CAUSATION. No, seriously according to you, I must deny the canon and accept your headcanons just because you want it? "

1. Show me a theory that combines correlation and causation.

2. Which canon are you talking about? The one where SOULless beings can naturally feel neutral emotion, or the real one?

" Yeah a message that tell ANOTHER PERSON to stay determined. You are really in denial here"

mmmphh

" How its related with anything at all?? The fact is :frisk NEVER struggle to achieve their goal UNLESS we force them to achieve it. "

I have no idea what you mean by this. Frisk never struggles to achieve their goal unless we force them to achieve it? So Frisk could effortlessly go through all of monsterkind, but the minute we force them to do the exact thing they were going to do in the first place, they fail miserably? What?????????

Please explain.

" Oh really, what rest? The only "manifestation of dt"in the game is YELLOW, the only color dt is written in is YELLOW, Flowey's petals become the exact same yellow as the save points when he was injected of dt. "

And yet DT inside of a SOUL is red. But that's clearly impossible; no way a substance could act differently under different conditions! That's like, the antithesis of all of chemistry!

" Maybe because you lack of the ability to analyze? "

no u

ha, gotem

" You add A TON of meanings not in the game itself as firmess of purpose or adding your own definition of dt. "

Really? Who says they aren't literally the exact things Alphys is describing?

Synonyms exist, y'know.

" They are two different people,and so each of them have their own will to keep living, change fate. Chara is also only determined to come back because of Asgores message not because of frisks dt "

unless they have no soul like flowey and chara

Get a better argument.

" Hahaha so i'am the one doing it??? You force the popular fanon saying that red soul is dt without even proofs and I'm the one who inject fanon in canon??? "

Yes, you are the one injecting fanon. We have proof, you have dumbass arguments like 'but soulless people can feel emotions idiot go kys'.

" And according to you, how ball game implies that dt=red soul? "

GOD

DAMMIT

THE VERY FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD IS A DETAILED EXPLANATION OF WHY THE BALL GAME PROVES THAT DT=RED SOUL.

JESUS CHRIST, DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW TO READ!?