Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-33883848-20190404103106/@comment-33883848-20190404125804

"4-7 and 9 are all true and canon. 8 is partially true. As for the other three..."

Let be honnest my dear ambassador:the only reason you believe those three parts are true and the others not is because you want to believe those three are true and the others are not.But here we are talking about the canon game,not headcanons

"1:The SOULs of Omega Flowey couldn't rebel until we, Frisk, gave them the power they needed to do this. We had to call out to them. Naturally, they wouldn't be able to. "

1.They can still take over him even though you never called them,so it would still fail Chara's plan 2.They dont help Frisk until they call them likely because they had compassion towards Frisk.Nothing implies that its required too or that it give them power

"This is also why they don't rebel from Asriel. Chara wouldn't have needed to deal with this problem. "

How do you know it??Wouldn't the control still be split??"The control over our body was split"

"Besides, if this was the case, even killing six humans would be impossible, as the one human would revolt and prevent Chara from killing five more."

Of course but not we kill 6 humans at the same time ,which Chara wanted to by killing tge attackers

"Chara made a wish, to see the golden flowers in their homeland. But as we learn in the tapes, that wish was there simply so that Chara could carry out their plan."

See the flowers#carrying the body to the village.A dead body cant see anything and monsters sayd that their wish was impossible to realize "but there was nothing we could do".something they wouldn't say if this wish could be realised after their death.

As i stated again and again:Chara loves those flowers,so when they were dying it was the last thing they wanted to see but as monsters says it was impossible.And when they died,they took their body to rest it on the golden flowers.

Their wish to see the flowers and their decision to take the body are unrelated.That also doenst change the whole control issue it wpuld bring if Chara really wanted to eradicate humanity

" Because of this, Chara easily could have dropped the body once they reached the Surface. But Chara kept carrying it, to the center of the village, when they're SUPPOSED to be carrying out their plan. Why? To demonstrate to Asriel how bad humans really are, as the humans attack the two."

Asriel already knew that humans were bad"Theres lot of floweys there",Chara told them to.And that doenst remove all the control split issue.And Chara said that their single plan was the one they shared with Asriel

"That lesson failed, though. Asriel still resisted killing them, even as they were about to die. So, from Chara's perspective, Asriel chose the humans over Chara."

Hell stop with headcanons and give proofs here.

"Now for the second one. Yes, they want Frisk to give up their SOUL. It's clear that's what they were after" I mean i never denied it they literally says its what they want.But they dont need to manipulate them by blaming them,only say that "if you dont me your soul,you will still here for all eternity".And i wonder how the blame is supposed to make Frisk more inclined to give up their soul

" But as for why they blamed Frisk again, it's to push them on that "other path". (That or they're like "really? You sold your soul to recreate the world, just to destroy it? ..Actually, I think the latter's more likely. I'd explain what the perverted sentimentality is. "You" destroying the world, then recreating it instead of leaving it destroyed.. And you can't pin it on Chara this time, because you KNEW the world gets destroyed when everyone dies, since you lived it before!)"

Hell they dont need to blame Frisk alone just to push the genocide run again,just to say that theres a "better path"is enough

they even keep blaming them for the first genocide so manipulating them isnt their goal.

And yeah you have no arguments to proove it.

"And yet, they still push you to do Genocide if you started it. Why do they do this, if they don't want Genocide anymore? I'll explain that in my response to 8."

You didnt even read the tread.I said that they dont want genocide when Frisk fail to kill any monster in a area(besides the tuto frogit because its a tuto).They even abort genocide when you fail to kill a monster that doenst provide any exp as Glad dummy ,so their impossibility to reach the "absolute "isnt the reason why they abort it but because you proved them that killing isnt required to survive,which is why Chara stop to provide the kill count.

N"ow for the third one. ...It IS reaching the absolute they're after. So, you might be wondering:How are they supposed to know that? They don't know how many monsters there are left to kill! Well.. The game itself proves they do! Chara's the narrator, right? That means they're the ones telling you how many monsters there are left to kill!"

I meant how many monsters to reach the absolute not how many monsters thefes in an area.They are clearly telling you how many are left in an area as it says "but nobody came"once the kill count is exausted.While they still abort the "mission"even when Frisk fail to kill a single monster,even the one that doenst provide any exp or a little.So again,it seems to be because of your guidance because you show them that killing isnt required ,that the world doesnt work om kill or be killed and so doesnt needs to be destroyed.

"You are allowed to spare monsters, as long as it's not a unique encounter, and you kill enough monsters anyways. Sparing alone isn't enough to deter Chara from pushing you on Genocide"

I NEVER said its sparing alone,i meant FAILLING to kill,to reach a specific area without exausting the kill count.

"You have to spare a monster who you won't get to kill later on, or just beat the boss without exhausting the kill count. And yet, sparing a monster should be enough to tell them that it isn't kill or be killed. So, why do they keep going?"

That because unlike the unique encounters,the random ones dont run away,so just because you show mercy doenst mean that you wouldnt kill them latter.Its arriving to a specific zone without completing the kill count that proove it to them.

"Undyne still walks up to search for us at the start of Waterfall. Monster Kid still thinks we're friends with them. Undyne had warned them that Frisk has hurt a lot of people, and they should best stay away from them. (not kill them, because Monster Kid really wouldn't be able to kill Frisk.)"

I dont know why you brought this point at all...

"All the monsters that Chara describes negatively don't try to kill Frisk."

Yes they do as their names arent yellow untill you act certain way

"They seem to be judging the monsters based on whether or not they believe in a kill or be killed world. But of course, good or not, the rule still remains. In this world, it's kill or be killed. So get started, partner. =)"

In the genocide run,yes.Otherwise they would provided the kill count simce the ruins but you had to kill everyone in the ruins to proove them that it worked on kill or be killed so that the world needed to be destroyed(thats also Flowey motive:destroy the world as it works on kill or be killed).You also proove so to Flowey"Since you defeated me i thinking,is killing really necesary ?i honestly dont know anymorr.Proove to me youre stronger enough to survive?","So killing people is actually fine?".But since you kept killing instead of wanting to destroy the world immediatly,they think that you want to gain enough power to destroy the world and so they think that gaining power is necessary to destroy the world"with your guidance i realized the purpose of my reincarnation:thats power"

"Frisk doesn't cross the Barrier in Neutral. It'd be impossible. Flowey destroyed Asgore's SOUL. They had no way of crossing the Barrier. So of course Chara doesn't kill the humans in Netural. They couldn't cross the Barrier."

Heck they DO cross the barrier https://www.google.com/amp/adamency.tumblr.com/post/143766235842/frisks-escape-from-the-underground/amp Its never said that the only way to cross the barrier is by specifically by having a combination of monster and human soul and Frisk has Charas essence making them stronger.Plus its also likely due to Flowey power

"Of course, then Flowey pops up and tells us not to kill anyone, just like last time."

Because he also crossed the barrier ,read the link above

"As for why they'd destroy the world, and bring it back just to destroy the humans that were already destroyed.. Take another look at Flowey's death again."

Weird right??Chara would bring the world back while humans are already destroyed since the world is destroyed just to go to the surface and destroy humans....Regadless how much this idea is absurd many of genocide chara fans support it... And honestly if it was their goal,they would do so in regular pacifist ending too

"Chara could have just one-shot Flowey. Why didn't they? Flowey/Asriel is the one monster Chara has a true grudge against. And they wanted to see him suffer."

That could be that but we have to consider that Chara has lv 20 here and Frisk proove that imcreasing love make you more and more violent .In fact they go from "tap lighy"to "you pushed the dummy at full force"at only lv 8 and Chara love also increases while you kill as showed by the fact that the stats have teir name

"Chara also hated humanity. So.. they probably wanted to see humanity suffer...."

Probably yes but they arent stupid and have standards as Undyne has.