Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-28009984-20160319184042/@comment-27701762-20160319232235

1) The entire premise of "they're not all children" is that the human and monster in the introduction are roughly the same size, and that if one child could make it so far, why couldn't another. These are incredibly weak points of evidence, though. The relative size of the human and monster in the intro could be similar for any number of reasons (the human isn't a child; artistic rendition; Toby made them the same size for the sake of simplicity). There is no way to point to that picture and declare that any of the previous humans are adults. If anything, the fact that the human resembles Chara/Frisk would point to the relative size being a mere artistic representation. Not to mention that Toby has been on record with the claim that the vision of the story is that specifically children fell down.

The idea of "why couldn't another child make it through" can be explained through the SAVE feature. While all human souls have some level of determination, and thus some ability to save/reload, the power of the previous humans must have been relatively weak (or something else, perhaps Flowey, was manipulating the timeline). Hence, when they die they cannot reload in the way Frisk can. So even if the purple-souled human can make it farther than others through perserverence, at some point the monsters can presumably overpower a child (as they do with Frisk) and kill them. In turn, this could not happen with an adult, as pretty much every single monster would need to gang up on the human in order to kill them.

2) Given that the Core is created after the monsters move out of the Ruins (since it is connected to New Home), and Toriel's house includes the basic elements of modern living (sink, oven, refrigerator), claiming that the monsters would still be living in the Middle Ages is a stretch. There is no indication that the monsters are technologically impotent.

3) She says it's endangered because that's what Alphys told her. The seaweed isn't endangered, but that's not the point. The point is that Undyne's actions have nothing to do with some "previous experience." Alphys told her not to harm to seaweed, and she doesn't want to upset Alphys.

4) If we take the idea that the blueprints for the DT Extraction Machine are Gaster's work, then the implication is that Alphys still had to construct the machine. Which means any of Gaster's work on souls would have had to have been theoretical.

5) Again, the sheer variety of monsters means that there is no reason to rule out the existence of ghost-type monsters. Not monsters that have turned into ghosts, but monsters that are essentially born as ghosts.

I'd like to know what "breadcrumbs" there are that Sans and Papyrus are dropping that they were formerly humans. Papyrus says he thinks humans are descended from skeletons, which isn't any clue about where he came from, but simply an indication of Papyrus's simple-mindedness. The closest you can get to a breadcrump is the "bleeding," and even that part is insanely ambiguous, both because it's unclear whether it is blood or ketchup (ketchup would confirm that Sans isn't human), and because Sans makes the sound of a monster being spared/killed once he goes offscreen.

You are describing a fundamentally different process in saying humans become "monster-like" (and they aren't becoming monster-"like," they would be becoming monsters). Monsters specifically become more powerful through absorbing a human soul. The exact same process is theoretically possible for a human by absorbing a monster soul. But there is no indication that one species can transform into the other by any means.