Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-28974149-20180305043309/@comment-32182236-20180325004218

"We know what he said, it's what he meant that is the issue, he was being too suspicious (And obvious, anyone could figure out that if it's "just bugfixes" there is no reason to replay the game, do you really think Toby thinks we're stupid? If he did he wouldn't put hidden secrets expecting us to find them...)"

Simple solution:SOME are stupid, others aren't, and are actually rather smart. This is true for fanbase in general, not just Undertale's. (I mean, Sans is not Ness.)

"He was giving a hint using double meanings, he's done this before, in Undertale's kickstarter trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf8L4S9cixc) he hints at the only recently discovered "B A L L" code that makes the game play some music when you type "Ball" on the undertale title screen. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOTU46VPdUc) "You'll be sure to have a BALL!" -Annoying Dog/Toby Fox. Flowey says lines that hint at the FUN value "Golly, After all the FUN we had in the DEMO..."  Things like FUN are only capitalized when they are game mechanics."

Sure, double meanings, but both meanings work here. Also, the first sentence says it fixes bugs-But it doesn't day that's ALL it does. It's the second sentence, saying that there's no reason to replay the game, that gives the impression that he means JUST bugfixes. After all, secrets ARE worth replaying the game. So, it's kind of like..

Toby:So, that patch? It fixes bugs.

Fan:..And? Oh! I'll replay the game and find the sec-

Toby:There's NO reason to replay the game!

Buddy, what do you think I was talking about when I mentioned:

'Toby has shown that he is completely honest about this, there were a few things that had to be left out of the game and he wasted no time in announcing this and apologizing. And also assured that the only Risk was that he wouldn't finish the game on time.'

He is a good honest annoying dog. The best qualities an annoying dog could have, honestly.

(Link : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1002143342/undertale/posts/1280253 )

This link above when he announced that the Instruction Manuel and Robot Husband parts were not happening due to Game Maker technical issues and Plot reworking. He then acknowledged that these were all the dissapointing things about the game and life in general."

Yep. All of them. Not a single other thing changed. All of the rest are happening. That's why you don't have to kill anyone, including Asgore. What? You have to kill Asgore? Fighting isn't "wholly unnessecary"? Well then. Too bad for Toby, then. He also says we can become friends with all the bosses, but we never befriend Asgore.

"Um... Yes? ..."

I thought you were implying that he meant the second game would be late.

"Also, why can't Toby saying there won't be a sequel be a case of this? The "something new" in 2016 likely was the Undertale Alarm Clock app.. Or maybe something non-Undertale related! After all, Toby did Homestuck before he did Undertale!"

"Doesn't seem very hinty to me but it's possible, but then again there is no way to make a Gaster related sequel as Gaster has "vanished without a trace". And exists in the past. Besides the entire mystery lies in the past, in the backstories, in the event that shattered Gaster."

It was during his experiments. We know this for a fact because of the Gaster Followeds. It was about determination, as Entry 17 reveals.

"It was not the Alarm Clock app, in his "something new" announcement he made several parallels to what he said the other game that had to do with Undertale's world would be, "Shrouded in Darkness" and as you know the other game and the alarm clock app are too totally different things."

My whole POINT was that it was something totally different. As in, it's not the other game at all.

"Also he announced the Alarm Clock app on his tumblr in 2017 not 2016. Though Backers would know about it much earlier in a post he made announcing that he was working on KS stuff like the comic and the alarm clock app but that thinking about Undertale all the time was tiring him out and that he would take a break, and then...one day. "They" will surface out of nowhere, like a birthday present for a birthday we didn't even know we had."

He didn't say what it is, though. And "they" is the comic and the alarm clock app. The Alarm clock app was actually for the 2nd anniversary. Comic might be for the third.

"Toby has made it clear even in the game's files and otherwise that the Annoying Dog is him. The sprite is called "tobydog" in the game. He also did this during the kickstarter trailer, the annoying dog comes up and says "Hi, I'm Toby Fox! Creator of Undertale!" he also does this at the end of Hardmode."

We also know the dog is a thief. What's to say that physical objects aren't the only things he steals? (I'm hinting that he stole Toby's identity. Of course, in-universe. Toby wasn't literally hacked lol. The Annoying Dog is just another one of his characters.)

"And of course there's the dog room where the supposed origins of the game are said to be the dog's doing."

That was just a game. And the sprite matches that of the video game on MTT News. So it's pretty famous. Considering how the monsters have no idea who Frisk is, and that's revealed in the game, this cannot actually be Undertale within Undertale. Any Underale fan would know who Frisk is, and that they're going to save everyone. They'd figure out that Gaster was real. Undertale existing in-universe would break all canon that we know of. It'd also create a paradox, of the game existing within itself. That would be like creating a perfect simulation of the universe.. Within the universe. Including the simulation itself, and so on, ad infinitum.

"True, the dog does steal our artifact but he leaves behind the dog salad a good healing item, and dog residues the latter being the absolute best way to grind money in the game as consolation."

Actually, you can do it faster by buying Cloudy Glasses and selling it to Temmie. Temmie's buying price is actually higher for some reason. (Then again, this is Temmie we're talking about here) Besides, we could have done a lot more with that artifact. It might allow us, Frisk, to finally weild the power of magic! No wonder there's an unused "spell" icon in the game files! We were supposed to have magic! DOG!! And, since we know Toby isn't a thief who steals stuff, he can't be the annoying dog.

"Interestingly enough the fact that the dog censors Papyrus' special attack in his fight is definately a reference to how Toby is keeping the Gaster stuff a mystery."

Or it's just a gag at the dog being annoying. Like Sans being lazy. Or Undyne loving anime.

"Gaster is vague and his connections, Sans and Papyrus' pasts and Suzy are definately incomplete mysteries."

They came from the timeline of Gaster. They are the biological soms of Gaster, due to the fact that they're both skeletons.

"Suzy is connected to Sans, as the mere mention of her name changes the events that occur in Sans lab, triggering the event where the bad drawing of 3 smiley figures falls out in which Sans has written 'don't forget.'"

No, it proves CLAMGIRL is connected to Sans. Which is more plausible:Mentioning a name suddenly changing the timeline, just like that? Yet, nothing happening if we name Chara Suzy, which would result in her name being spoken? Or, the fact that we spoke with a Clamgirl that only appears at specific FUN values, leading her to influence the timeline via the Butterfly effect?

"Also Toby Fox, roleplaying as Sans which he does often on the official Undertale tumblr when speaking in lowercase stated that Suzy is NOT monster kid when everyone kept speculating about it."

Anybody who knows Monster Kid's name would know that. (Sure, we don't know their name.. But it's not Suzy. So.. yeah.)

"And of course, as we know, Sans is connected to Gaster and Suzy seems to not exist in this game as they are only mentioned in the game's files in the Clamgirl dialogue."

Yep. Suzy doesn't exist in the files. They were probably one of the fallen humans between Chara and Frisk. (Unless it's the River Person. But.. Considering that meeing the River Person doesn't change her latter dialouge, about there being a limit to what you could do today, this is probably not the case.)

"True, but the narration did specify "Alot" so these 4 probably aren't all of them."

The rest of the followers are probably somewhere on the Surface. Also, the fact that we don't recognize them debunks my species theory, as that means we know they had different forms before. So now my meta-theory's the ONLY option that I have. Because of how early in development it is, you probably won't see me bring it up in my own posts for a LONG time. It's like 5 layers down in the rabbit hole.

"Oh? I'd like to here that."

Alright.. I'll try to explain the stuff this is built on top of, as quickly and consisely as I can, so you'll understand this.

We know that the game's laws, including things like the HUD are canon, due to Flowey responding to you choosing his name, saying he did the same, alongside Geraon exploiting that knolwedge in the Genocide Route, knowing you can't hit hi, in the shop screen. We also know that whatever forms the followers were in, have been erased. They no longer exist in the timeline. They shouldn't. Therefore, their sprites are invalid sprites. "Glitch sprites", if you will. Hence, it defaults to "Missingno" sprites, or placeholder ones. Grayed out versions of already-existing sprites, but. As it's invalid, the color scheme defaults to gray, due to the color and status pointers being non-existent, due to the characters not being a part of the world anymore.

To sum it up, their grayed out sprites are due to some kind of rendering error within the HUD, by attempting to display inavlid character sprites.

Yeah, it goes off of a LOT of assumptions, and I might end up proving it wrong. Hence why I don't plan on making this an official theory of mine for a long while.

"Untrue, the only thing the Lost Souls forget is their friendship with Frisk, the rest of their memories are intact, Asgore tells us that he kills humans because it is his duty, Toriel tells us that she never wants anyone to leave again, Sans tells us he gave up and that we should too, we'll never see our friends again, both of us. Undyne tells us we are the enemy and must die for what we did to Monster kind, Alphys fears we hate her and regrets her past mistakes."

Papyrus remembers why he wants to capture a human before he becomes a Lost soul, though. Being pretigous, bathing in a shower of kisses every morning. Perhaps Mettaton is the reason why, just like why Undyne is why he chose the Royal Guard.

"Not everyone, I can't say anything about the rest of monster kind but the only of the main cast who looks up to Mettaton is Papyrus(though, he never states he is WHY he dreams big. He just seems him as someone who suceeded in what he wants to do.) and the only known side-NPC who wants to be like him is Burgerpants."

That we know of. Alas, why do those want to be like him? Why does anyone in this world want to be famous, for that matter? Papyrus wants to be famous for the same reason why everybody else who wants to be famous does.

"You're right, it also only ever happens if Undyne dies instead of Papyrus otherwise Undyne spearheads the rebellion. I mean in a neutral ending where you kill only Papyrus the entire Snowdin town says that there is something missing and feel like the world has become a worse place due to Papyrus being missing."

They don't even know what the thing is. They're not even aware that it's Papyrus that is missing. Also, explain why he has negative followers. Here's the probable explanation of this ending, using the Snowdin Shopkeeper as the representative of Snowdin.

"And if you're bored, you can sit outside and watch those wacky skeletons do their thing. There's two of 'em. Brothers, I think. They just sort of showed up one day, and asserted themselves. The town has gotten a lot more interesting since then."

Sans and Papyrus are unwittingly the source of entertainment in Snowdin. The wackiness of them is silly enough to amuse them, and things have gotten more interesting. Papyrus might even be the one who misspelled "LIBRARY". Either way, he's both a source of enterinament, yet someone with negative two followers. Therefore, he's likely infamous.

"Sans never hangs out with you again. Undyne gets PISSED OFF during her fight and impossible to befriend. (Althought this also true if you have any EXP.) So yes, alot of people love him."

Well yeah, Sans is his brother, and Undyne's friends with Papyrus, and, of course, the important part is that you killed PERIOD. After all, even killing Jerry triggers this, and nobody likes Jerry.

"Untrue, there is cell phone dialogue where he makes a pun and then mentions to his horror that he has been hanging around Sans for way too long. It's likely he says he liked Undyne's puns to kiss up to her as so he doesn't ruin his chances of  getting into the guard, since in another line when Undyne reveals to Papyrus, who hates anime, that she loves Anime he quickly tries to claim(after saying he hated anime) that he is willing to watch anime and that watching cartoons is normal for an adult."

That would make sense. That might also be the sole reason why he uses puns to us to behin with-Perhaps to impress Undyne, by trying to do what she does...? Just like with anime? After all, if you tell a joke to Lost Papyrus, he remembers "the agony" of the puns. ...Yeah. Even though it didn't come from Sans.

"Good point but what about genocide? Papyrus' stats fall and he says he's afraid and spares you, it's clear he does not want to kill us but fears our power, trying to teach us to be good, unfortunately due to his lowered stats, lowered by involuntary fear, he doesn't expect us to be able to take him down, which we do.... because as we know Monster's bodies are atune to their soul and if the monster feels weak, weak they become. It can't get away (though, we don't know why they just vanished in the end.. so maybe it could... it's not clear) but he could acceidentally absorb it and become PAFRISKUS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHXfdh6tp4o) Truly, a horrible beast being with unfathomable power."

He actually knows we're powerful enough to take him down in one hit, and since he have initiative, we attack first. Therefore, his only hope of surviving is to get us to spare him. He doesn't know how to attack out-of turn like Sans. And how do you do that? By trying to convince the human not to kill! Also, the fact that the SOULs vanished means they canget away, and NATURALLY get away. After all, humans have died before, and there weren't any random SOULs from dead humans roaming around for a monster to capture, as they didn't capture any. But if SOULs can't get away, there SHOULD be millions of SOULs right there for the taking, from all the humans who died.

Of course, this isn't the only reason, as it fails to explain his lines about not expecting us to hit him. By the way, what he does't expect is for us to attack anyway. Less "be able to one-shot him" and "CHOOSE" to one-shot him. Papyrus is also probably where most unintentional Genocide Routes end, because that's where we're first flat-out told monsters are good, and given the option to just skip the battle. (And by doing so, not killing Papyrus).

"In a phonecall Papyrus mentions he dreams of selling flames."

Which one?

"The royal guard are protectors, if he wants to join it he wants to protect everyone. After all he could opt to be the next mettaton or a famous basketball player or anything, why Royal Guard? He admires Undyne yet isn't too fond of killing anyone, even stating that Undyne sometimes grosses him out. Again to the superhero parallel he wants to be a guardsmen who captures their enemies and doesn't kill them. By the way, Undyne wants to kill us, I wonder if she carries around a soul capsule."

She's the head of the Royal Guard. THE HEAD. Why wouldn't Asgore provide one to her? Also, it's because of Undyne. After all, he still is excited just as much in the Neutral Ending where the Royal Guard is disbanded, and Papyrus is the head, and all they do is gardening. (Don't kill, befriend Papyrus and Undyne, and that's it. Basically, the first ending when you try doing a Pacifist Route.)

"Papyrus became interested in being an UNPARALLELED SPAGHETTOR!" when Undyne started teaching him to cook and after everyone said they liked his spaghetti. But also claims the Royal Guard as his dream too."

Undyne's his reason, then.

"Yes but he must have learned that lesson in some unexplained moment in the past. No one is born knowing everything. Not even magic skeletons."

He probably learned it through science. As he was analyzing the timelines, the anomalies, with Gaster. So, not theough personal experience, but through a scientific one. Possibly through the same point of view as nothing mattering at all, since a reset will undo everything anyway.

"He said dead. As in, he would have killed us."

Him capturing us and sending us to Asgore to get killed counts as still dying. Pretty sure Sans knows Asgore kills captured humans.

"And it seems PERSONAL. Not just duty bound. After all he used his angry serious face."

That face is used for "having a bad time", which happens in the Genocide Route. The one where you threaten the existence of the world itself. Where Sans can't afford not to care anymore. That's probably the most dutiful thing to do-Save the world. Megalovania should really have included the "Battle Against a True Hero" theme. Afted all, NEO used it.

"Maybe, but "our reports" could imply more members (I shouldn't have said, someone.) and if Matpat's theory is to be considered it would be Papyrus, with them as Gaster."

MatPat's theory contains a giant hole. If Gaster split into Sans and Papyrus, then he couldn't speak to Sans while he was still whole, because Sans hadn't been split yet! Also, "our" can also imply only two-Sans and Gaster. Of course, it likely was more than that-It was more than like the whole team from the photo-Sans, Gaster, and the Followers.

"No, I know. They are total opposites even their very designs (Papyrus is tall and thin-bones while Sans is short and thick-bones) are opposite. Even the colors they wear are exact opposites on the color wheel. Orange is the opposite of Blue and even in black in white they wear opposite colors, even their eyes. (Kind of like how the two halves of the brain are opposite from Matpat's theory and science fact.)The way they deal with their existance is also opposite, Sans gives up due to what has happened to them and what he knows while Papyrus continues to strive for a good ending despite possibly still knowing."

Actually, YELLOW is the opposite of blue, containing equal ammounts of red and green. This is why the primary colors of ink are Y/C/M...

"Well, it's not just knowledge, Knowledge is the dodge and knowledge is the timeline stuff and the fact that his stategy is to be as hard as possible to make us ragequit as he knows he cannot beat us. There is something else, Sans can manipulate space and time with his "time jump" cut to black ability to catch us off guard and make shortcuts, that could only have come from DT experiments."

Yeah. You get these nice bonuses for working with the most intellegent monster science of all time.

"It's interesting to note that if you look at the Gaster Blaster sprite it looks kind of...melted? In the animation the "teeth" move and dangle when the blaster fires indicating they are not solid. And the whole mouth just looks like it is opening in a sticky way.. heck, the blast actually pushes the jaw apart in a goo-ey way."

Resembles the Mysteryman sprite in that regard, don't you think?

"Yes but Toriel can kill you by accident if you try hard enough, Papyrus stops the fight the FRAME you reach 1 hp and it's impossible to get hurt enough for him to accidentily kill you."

...Now that actually IS a sign of intellegence. Ironic that he doesn't think of looking behind that convientiently-shaped lamp. (He also seems to be aware that Sans pranks him across time and space.. ALL THE TIME.)

"Another interesting thing is that he is intelligent enough to know that if he wants Undyne and you to be friends he must present it as a challange."

Guess I overestimated the captain of the Royal Guard, eh? She can't befriend a little child. Oh, how can she make friends with Asgore, if she can't even make friends with a simple child who literally tried to spare her?

Alas, this was indeed a clever move on Papyrus' part. Kudos to him.

"Yes but there is still much we don't know about that, we know they are connected but we don't know how."

They're both skeletons. The connection is biological.

"While it's true that being without skin and flesh can allow a skeleton monster to survive in the snow levels, by classical evolution rules that can only be an adaptation to lava, as skeletons can survive falling into lava in video games."

....Regular monsters don't survive in Snowdin either. Only snow monsters, and ones specifically designed for that enviornment. It is true thay skeleotns can survive in Hotland, as proven both by Gaster, and the fact that bones have an insane melting point of 1670C. Either way, skeletons in Snowdin isn't all that unrealistic. So let's apply Darwinian evolution, but using monster physics. That should help explain the origin of monster species. (Also, evolution takes millions of years. The species were formed long before the war. So the monsters when traveling just chose the parts of the underground that they were WLREADY adapted to. So, I still don't see a problem.)

"Wrong. Catty and Bratty About Mettaton then About Alphys dialogue. Accoridng to them Catty Bratty and Alphys knew each other and lived on the same street Presumably in the capital, Alphys would take them to the trash yard and spend alot of time there collecting Anime, then one day, to impress Asgore she built the Mettaton body and ended up Royal scientist."

Undyne's probably the reason, then. Guess Alphys really didn't work with Gaster. But, perhaps the second monster could be.. Asgore himself? Asgore would clearly be one who would need to see the experiments.. After all, Gaster does work for Asgore.

"Years? You're exaggerating."

It's already been two years. So, that's no exaggeration.

"There are hundreds of theories, everyone has tried, in the end it's only speculaiton. We need comformation. There always ends up being little holes."

Even as we continue to theorize, we never quite find the one theory that would explain EVERYTHING. Therefore, theroies try to xompete against each other, claiming the holes are irrevelant. It already shows that nobody is bringing all the pieces together. Every theory fails to explain SOME piece of evidence. They're all incomplete. They're all missing something.. There's thousands of lines of dialouge, hundreds of flags.. It could take years to deconstrust every single one of them, then look at all the refrences and cross-references they refer to, then derive the laws of the world from that, then cross-reference AGAIN.. About how all the pieces of this complicated story fit together.

"That's what this game will bring. Its happening, Toby said it would. In fact, in one update about the comic he made it clear that despite not having ideas for what more to say about Undertale besides his other game he made a promise so the comic will happen regardless. Then he asked the backers about ideas. And how it may be non-canon and humerous. So it shows that he is indeed a man of his word and will keep his promises."

The other game being non-canon, or the comic being non-canon?