Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31981697-20170722123329/@comment-32182236-20170801130913

1)Except we know Asgore DOES know the HUD-Otherwise he wouldn't be able to destroy your MERCY. The point was that if Asgore was going to destroy your MERCY button, that means he HASN'T given up at Frisk. Asgore was willing to fight Frisk just as much as he was willing to fight the humans before him. And for exactly the same reason why he killed six humans prior. Nothing special about Frisk there.

2)You pointed out why they all had at least some DT-That part is solid:Otherwise there'd be no DT to extract Flowey and the Amalgamtes from in the first place. (Lucky flower got more than the Amalgamtes) I'm just saying their determination isn't enough for them to become... I don't know what to call it, but the one being who has this power.

3(3.1):Each human likely fell around the same amount of time since the previous one. That's usually how random events like this work. By the time we get to Frisk, human 8, Catty and Bratty mentions how they've been trapped in here for millenia. Maybe we should just say ONE thousand years:That would place the banishment of monsters around 1890, with somewhere close to 125 years between each human falling down. Sans's promise, therefore, would more than likely have happened about 25 years before the events of Undertale. Also, maybe it's not futuristic because it's abandoned and people are on Mars now. It'd explain why we don't see any humans in the True Pacifist credits. 201X was the time of very old Cell Phones though at this point, so the technological history in Undertale doesn't really match the real-world technology timeline. It'd also place Undertale in 288X/289X.

4)They have the highest stats. That's why they're the most useful. And yes, you can drop your stuff. I'm looking for a reasonable way they would do that, and it would only make sense if they found something more useful. For example, Green finding Yellow's stuff in Hotland, dropping their own stuff there (explanaing how they got there in the first place), and picking up Yellow's stuff. But that gets us at a dead end, it has to reach the dump at some point for Catty and Bratty to find it there. But it would have already been past the dump, with Green taking it even further. Also, could you link to whatever spin-off of Underline shows this? I'm just seeing Asriel and Chara all over the place. And there's no way Chara is somehow able to predict where the six fallen humans will drop their stuff and why.

4.1)And maybe the entire game was a meta experience and none of the game ever happened. We need evidence to theorize from, and once we start crying "Meta", we can just say everything in the game ever is meta. Everything becomes useless to theorize on.

4.2)Sans attacks directly through the HUD. Sans flat-out mentions the turn-based mechanics and exploits it as his special attack. Frisk both speaks and presses the button at the same time. Really, the only problem with Glitchtale was the glitches themselves, and the pink SOUL. The HUD was no real problem, and I would imagine Sans continuing to use meta knolwedge in the future. We are a part of the gane, because SAVING and LOADING is canon. EXP and LOVE is canon. How are we a part of this game? By being Frisk. This entire game is a big meta experience, where mechanics we see in RPG are all canon, and deconstructed, and the line between Frisk and the player really is blurry, if not nonexistent. It actually looked like that you were getting at the "we're above consequences" view, that it was all Frisk, EXP is good, ect.

Remember, Chara is the demon who comes when someone calls their name. So why at the start of the game? Because that's when you name the fallen human. YOU are calling out to Chara. Sans proves the buttons are canon, I don't cringe at the buttons at all. Asgore too proves the buttons are canon. There aren't any glitches-errors in this "code", otherwise someone would abuse them like every other canon mechanic. Flowey was a Save-Scummer. Sans attacks through the HUD. Asgore destroys your MERCY.

Frisk is the one entering that room in the FIRST place! It's obviously for Frisk, otherwise Frisk wouldn't even be in it! We can't just disregard pieces of the story! The room can't be the dog creating the game they're in though-Undertale's world couldn't have been created from itself. If the dog made Undertale's world from a computer, where did that computer come from? It's a part of the world too, after all. This room showed how the dog took the events that happened in Undertale.. And turned them into a game somehow. It also serves as a funny explanation for most bad comments. So, we've gone full circle, we play a game, and the story ends with the creation of a game, based off the story. OneShot is different-I don't know much about it, but I know in OneShot, the player is a separate character. The fact that it's a game is also canon, with the code explicitly being mentioned. It's quite an interesting concept, I might just look into it more.

But this isn't about OneShot, it's about Undertale. In Undertale, the player and Frisk are one and the same. If we think of Frisk as the player, you might understand what I mean. Actually, "the player" would be whoever has the most determination at the time, as Flowey just took over all of these player abilities when he became Omega Flowey. The SAVE file name changed to suit him, the LV changed to HIS LV, and of course, he gained the ability to SAVE and LOAD. Except since he had six SOULS to help him, he had six SAVE files to use instead of just one. But yeah, the best analogy or metaphor I can use so you can visualize what I'm saying is this:Frisk is the player, and the player is Frisk. What we do, Frisk does all the same, and what Frisk does, we do all the same. They're one and the same.

Oh, wrong face lol. I didn't really look into that distorted face much-Just thought it was a random face, or Flowey imagining what he'd turn Frisk into-Completely distorted, gone insane from all the times they died over and over and over and over... (The troll face I was talking about was when Flowey reloaded after dying)

5)We DID have to remind them during the Asriel battle-I agree with that! That didn't give them the power to rebel, obviously:Instead, we had to SAVE Asriel himself. So that doesn't mean anything regarding how that would help defeat Asriel, since we're not defeating Asriel, we're SAVING him. But the Omega Flowey battle is different-In that battle, all we're doing is calling out for help. "You called out for help". That's not going to remind anybody who they were!

5.1)Chara died, but they still lived on after death, like any human SOUL would. And kept their power. Also, most humans have no magic whatsoever. There are a few exceptions, like the Mages.

5.2)Not why they didn't commit full genocide, but why they weren't able to beat Asgore. If we can beat Asgore AND Sans, then they could beat Asgore if they were given all the abiltiies that we have. My solution is simple-They just DIDN'T have those same abilities-When they died, they died. For good. No LOADing a SAVE to try again.

Frisk's friends do experience deja-vu. Why is this? Well, because they have at least some determination. Asgore has the determination to keep on fighting for monsters. Undyne is the most determined of them all. Sans is one of the least determined, and actually has little to no hope-The depression of a RESET really got to him. Toriel is determined to protect her child, and Alphys... Well, I don't know about Alphys-I'll just take Undyne's word for it and say she was determined for her passion in anime. We do know Flowey, the one who originally had the ability to SAVE due to his massive determination remembers exactly what you did between SAVES though. There does seem to be a link between DT and remembering SAVES. The arguments you linked are the very ones I'm trying to debunk. YES, all humans had DT, as the True Lab states. But having just any number of DT isn't enough.

6)The SOUL was probably made to be shaped like a heart because of red being Frisk's default, not the other way around. Remember, Frisk has the red trait. Green was likely made for kindness, however-Green means go or good, and green attacks heal you. Also, just because you have a red SOUL doesn't mean you can't also have red attacks. There's nothing wrong with having a cyan SOUL mode either, and we know a cyan SOUL mode DOES actually exist-The SOUL of patience had a cyan SOUL by default! The default of no trait would either be black or white-They'd represent blankness, a blank slate, that you fill in with color. I do not deny that red may have been made to be the PLAYER'S default, but we too are human like the others, so he had to give red a trait as well. And it meaning no trait doesn't really make much sense-We'd need a color to represent nothing-And black and white fit them the best. The background's black though, so white's the color to use.

We should go as deep as we have to in order to accurately explain all the mechanics. This ISN'T your typical game. Game mechanics are canon here. We already have meta stuff being a part of the game's in-told story, so why not use that fact in our theorizing? How is it far-fetched to believe that the meta mechanics are canon, when we already have a few examples?