Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-32182236-20170602170443/@comment-32182236-20180119133221

"If it was Chara, theyd want to convince you the monsters are evil, to persuade you to go on a genocide run - doesn't make sense for him to trick you to thinking they're good as that's counterproductive to his goal"

Chara's not tricking you, the monsters are tricking Chara into giving out false information that they THINK is true. My take on this is similar to this post right here (http://nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/139446886750/monster-checks), but with one crucial difference-Frisk isn't the one asking the monster their stats, and Chara isn't giving it to the player as some second entity-Chara's the one doing the check, and giving the info to Frisk. And just like monsters can tell lies about their stats this way, they can tell lies about their intentions this way.

"Is frisk hearing a voice in his head? Is the voice giving him knowledge for free? You'd think that would worry the character just a teensy bit, no?"

Except WE are Frisk. If it doesn't worry us, it doesn't worry Frisk. Frisk is the player. They see through the HUD. Chara even knows this, because in the Sans Genocide Battle, the flavor text says "Reading this doesn't seem like the best use of your time." In the lore, "player" is whoever has the most determination-Not to be confused with us, who is always Frisk. This is how Flowey also knows about the HUD, and at one point, Chara-Both of them saw through the HUD, and were the "player" at one point.

"And Tsunderplane for example, only thinks you might be human when you try to get close, and even then the average monster may simply not realise how harmful the bullets are to nonmonsters (after all, they're not usually "attacking" your physical body but rather your soul)"

Attacking your SOUL is even worse! They want to weaken your very SOUL, the culmination of your very being!

"Furthermore, a lot of the encounter text is redundant in that case - when you perform an action, the narrator typically says "you did x - y happened/didn't happen/etc". Literally repeating what the character did is stupid because obviously the character would know."

What's to say they were trying to help Frisk in their pacifist run? By not doing a Genocide Run, you're a failure to Chara. They want you to use the knowledge they give you against the monsters, and if you're not willing to do that, if you're not willing to FIGHT.. Chara'll give away what you're doing to the monster, to attempt to get things right back to fighting. =)

"The whole surprise attack thing doesn't make sense - why wouldn't all the monsters/many of them attack you at once?"

Because only three can fit on the HUD screen at one time.

"Or when you're busy doing puzzles in snowdin for example?"

Monsters CAN attack you in the middle of a puzzle. But that's by chance, as they have no way of predicting when you'll be doing their puzzles.

"More or less everytime you have the first action even though you typucally don't see an encounter coming."

That's because humans typically have "initiative" (As in, the RPG mechanic "initiative"). Only Sans can break that rule. But, all we see is a monster show up, and if we've been taught that monsters are nice, perhaps maybe they want to be our friend.? There there, monster, let's TALK. ALright, your tur-*takes damage* ..Oh, the bullets, eh? Trying to say something? Alright, let's try aga-*SOUL shatter*


 * GAME OVER|

You can't give up now! CHARA! Stay determined!

..But yeah. That's pretty much their plan. Except the stay determined part, they want your SOUL to go to Asgore so they can breach the surface world and destroy humanity.

"You really think, especially after additional millenia in time, humans haven't worked how to do that quickly?"

The war took place in the Middle Ages. At that point, it would take weeks to assemble the magicians. And by that point, it'd be too late. In the modern ages, while humans have better technology, so do monsters... In fact, they're ahead of us, as shown by Gaster's CORE, and them having VHS tapes at the era of Chara, yet many years later, in Frisk's time, the Surface world is just in the 2010's era? (Statistics would estimate Chara falling around the early 1600s at the latest, far before humans had VHS tapes, when you take into account when the war happened and when Frisk fell.)

"The getting 6 human souls was actually Chara's idea and Asriel was both reluctant and changed his mind"

Thus demonstrating the danger of the two being together. Alas, Asriel still breached the surface world, and appeared to have killed Chara, AND was just about to kill the villagers-It was likely obvious that he was going to kill him too-Preparing a magical attack...

"The appropriate punishment for trespass is expulsion, maybe a fine/short detainment, not death."

What if they resist, though, like Chara/Asriel did, because they wanted to KILL them?

"we see in Frisk even a regular human can have great determination and refuse to die for a significant amount of time - if the events that transpire affect the aboveground, don't you think we'd see at least a fraction of the human population's souls attempting to fight back - which would still be millions of souls?"

Mt. Ebott has been reduced to a mere legend. The disspearances of the humans became a sort of urban legend, a mystery.. It was probably treated similarly to the Bermuda Triangle.

"that's because the events are contained in the underground (otherwise the barrier is stupid - keeps them physically out but doesn't prevent other forms of attack?)"

"Anything can enter the barrier, but only beings with a powerful SOUL can leave."

Actually, the barrier blocks out ALL attacks the monsters could use against the humans. Though, since NOTHING can leave, you could indeed say that the events there cannot affect the Surface-But it's no time magic, it's just because nothing can leave. But yes, as long as the monsters don't cross the barrier with a human SOUL, everything is fine for the humans. That's why the barrier was made in the first place. If the part of humans not falling underground was fulfilled, the monsters would never be able to harm us. But now I finally know why the barrier wasn't two-way...

Take a look at the Barrier from Asgore's room, Ever wondered why the room appears to be white, where the Barrier is? Remember, as I said, nothing can leave the barrier. That includes light. So, if we DID make the barrier two-way.. Monsters wouldn't get any sunlight, and would all die due to a lack of food.. So.. I guess this shows humans really did care for the safety of monsters during this time period, and weren't just killing them because "MUAHAHA, WE HUMANS ARE EEEEEEVIL..." (probably what Chara believed.)