Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-32182236-20180704115254

"You are making the assumption that the traits mix. State that as your head canon next time."

I was simply offering an explanation as to how other traits can exist when everyone has determination. The person I was responding to seriously thought that the fact that everyone has at least some determination is complete proof that red can't be determination. So, I provided my counter-example.

"I don't think Chara was Toriel's "friend". Toriel speaks of the other children the same way the other characters speak of us when we talk to them after resetting, after we befriend them. And since there's nothing to counter this theory, I'd say it's a point made, and should be taken into consideration as the base lore. Just like the things such as Flowey being Asriel (lots of indirect evidence, plus his own words), Chara having a red soul (the first coffin, who knows if that's legit or not?), Alphys starting the DT experiments (there's a theory that attributes this to Gaster, so not even this is a solid assumption in the fandom). But we gotta base our further research on something, isn't that right?"

True, and I WOULD, if it wasn't for the plot hole with Asgore that results from it. (Yes, only that. Hey, red being determination doesn't mean that the other children shouldn't be able to do it, as there was no Flowey, making all the kids the most determined in their time.)

"That entire segment of the game is really sketchy and we should not jump into conclusions when analyzing it."

He was talking to Chara, yes, but we were there to hear it-Else we wouldn't see it. That confirms that we were with Flowey, and Flowey said he was staying underground, meaning we went underground. It CAN be explained.

"You said this is assuming the power isn't exclusive to the underground, which I don't find relevant."

True. I was responding to someone who actually thinks it isn't exclusive to the underground, not you. Read Magomaeva's original post more clearly. I have my own counterclaim, and that's that, well, it's NOT exclusive to the Underground, and Frisk was the only one to fall after Flowey was injected-Of COURSE they'd be the only one to overtake Flowey.

Also, that condition about red not being determination? That's actually unnessecary-There's definitely at least one more red-souled human on the surface. Unless Glitchtale's assumption about there only being able to be one red SOUL at a time is actually correct..

"True, the fact that we can load by closing the game is still a thing in the final battle, but as I postulated above, it might be because Asriel didn't save in that fight. That is currently the simplest explanation for this fact."

That's something I've responded to.

"Correction, Chara has no soul. This has been clearly proven in the game, by stating that a human cannot absorb another human soul, and by the plot hole of Asgore not taking this soul away (as he did with the others), that would arise, if this were true (and I don't think Toriel hid it away from him since the very beginning, as I see no motive for such action, at that time at least)."

True. We agree here. I used these exact arguments (Well, except for Asgore) in one of my threads, to prove that they're SOULless, then show how they actually came to life (human essence), explaining how they became the phantom narrator we all know. (It's the third in my series-The second proved that Chara is the narrator.) I was adressing a possible counterargument that Mago may use to defend his claim. Remember, MAGO'S the one this post was adressed to, not you. But, you're fine to defend some of his points, or to agree with me on my rebuttals, or even make your OWN rebuttals against Mago!

"Could be, but mood is also indicated by other colors."

True. Different kinds of mood.

"In contrast, this seems to be an exception for the ball game. And examining the "hole" is the only place where the narrator speaks red (if I recall correctly), so maybe it's because of the ball game, not because of a mood swing."

The narrator has spoken in yellow before, though, haven't they? To indicate mood? Why wouldn't the same apply to red? Now, if the red FLAG said this, I would take that as proof. But.. It doesn't.

"I know what you're hinting at. But boy, are you bad at it! Pink is not fear in that AU. Read the lore, man xD"

Yeah, it's actually dark orange, and pink was a result of inverting Amber's colors, meaning pink isn't a trait at all. But, point is, there's pink colors, so by Mago's logic, there should be a pink trait. So.. Pink trait confirmed..? (In the Magoverse) I used fear because in Season 2, that's what the characters had said pink was, because of Betty. They had treated it like its own trait, rather than what it really was. Besides, I don't know of a popular AU that has a real pink trait. Storyshift is the closest, but that isn't pink.

"Also, if they gained their own trait, and red was no trait, their SOUL color should change to reflect that. If they become kind, their SOUL should turn green. Hmm, why doesn't it?"

Well, DID they ever gain their own trait? Based on this statement of yours, it would imply they didn't.

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Other than these points, I agree with you.

Also, I am voiding all of our previous discussions. I grew tired of them.