Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-27136653-20171226001554

''"However, battles are only one of many types of obstacles that Frisk must to face during his journey." ''

It's the only type of an obstacle where soul modes/traits are involved.

"You are saying it is because Asgore got soft and I'm saying it is because Frisk is remarkably Determined" 

If the monsters wanted, they could have killed Frisk no problem. Sans has the capability, Undyne wouldn't give us a shield, Mettaton would have actually used his human-killing weapons, Alphys would have blocked off all the entrances and exits and Asgore wouldn't have to dodge and give us an opportunity to heal. I've got a conjecture, that they were this soft only because it's been so long since Asgore declared the war, meaning that the monsters may have forgotten a bit the hatred they've felt towards the humanity before. Most of them don't even know how a human looks like. The truth may simply be, that the previous humans were unlucky. The monsters were merciless towards them. Frisk was lucky. I mean, if those kids REALLY had the same powers as Frisk (and they did have), then how COME they gave up? Perhaps they've been met with some impossible task.

Also, that line that Flowey muttered, it doesn't prove that Frisk was more determined than the other humans. It only proves that they're more determined than Flowey. And keep in mind, Flowey doesn't even have a soul, he only has injected determination. Alphys got the DT for that from the souls, and for sure she didn't drain one whole soul, so Flowey definitely isn't more determined than any of those other human souls. So once again, this doesn't really put the human souls and Frisk into comparison.

''"The Ball Game mentions only about seven traits related to those, who fell into Underground." ''

Not only those related, it lists all possible ones.

''"In the other hand, Ball Game isn't reliable source of information - it doesn't describe every possible trait that human Soul could or can has." ''

...

<p style="font-weight:400;"> Ah... I see how it is.

<p style="font-weight:400;"><span style="font-weight:400;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,HiraKakuPro-W3,"HiraginoKakuGothicProW3","HiraginoKakuGothicPro","ヒラギノ角ゴProW3",メイリオ,Meiryo,游ゴシック,YuGothic,"ＭＳＰゴシック","MSPGothic","ＭＳゴシック","MSGothic",sans,sans-serif;font-size:16px;">You see Rafip, the ball game is as omnious as for example the intro, or the ancient plaques in Waterfall. It is therefore truthful. And even if it wasn't, you've got no proof that other traits exist, simply because it is not confirmed that those actually are personality traits. And assuming the ball game IS a reliable source of into, they can't even be. As I've stated in my previous comments here, I think they are "combat traits" - they are tied to a person's fighting style, they indicate how they would fight. In such case, a lower amount could exist, maybe no more than 7 combat styles can indeed exist. This is the closest we can come to the truth here, without assuming bullshit.

<p style="font-weight:400;"><span style="font-weight:400;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,HiraKakuPro-W3,"HiraginoKakuGothicProW3","HiraginoKakuGothicPro","ヒラギノ角ゴProW3",メイリオ,Meiryo,游ゴシック,YuGothic,"ＭＳＰゴシック","MSPGothic","ＭＳゴシック","MSGothic",sans,sans-serif;font-size:16px;">Besides, saying that the ball game is unreliable simply because it disagrees with your idea of what might be the truth here is the stupidest argument I've ever seen in a discussion like this. You have literally 0 proof that other traits exist, so why are you all of sudden assuming that the ball game is unreliable? You are basing this argument on a pure headcanon.

<p style="font-weight:400;">"<span style="font-weight:400;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,HiraKakuPro-W3,"HiraginoKakuGothicProW3","HiraginoKakuGothicPro","ヒラギノ角ゴProW3",メイリオ,Meiryo,游ゴシック,YuGothic,"ＭＳＰゴシック","MSPGothic","ＭＳゴシック","MSGothic",sans,sans-serif;font-size:16px;">Yes, monster does have essence, but there is nothing about  human essence''<span style="font-weight:400;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,HiraKakuPro-W3,"HiraginoKakuGothicProW3","HiraginoKakuGothicPro","ヒラギノ角ゴProW3",メイリオ,Meiryo,游ゴシック,YuGothic,"ＭＳＰゴシック","MSPGothic","ＭＳゴシック","MSGothic",sans,sans-serif;font-size:16px;">." ''

<p style="font-weight:400;">The quote you included talked about the composition of monster and human bodies, not about essences. But... anyways, I know that there's no mention of a human essence existing. However, it is the only way to explain Chara. They say that they've been awakened by us when they talk to us at the end of the genocide route. That was at the very beginning of the game, when the genocide route didn't even begin (it begins only after the first kill, and it becomes distinguished from all the other neutral routes when we leave the Ruins). Therefore, they've been awakened like this on ALL routes. And now the question is, how is this possible? Well... the essence is the only plausible answer here. It couldn't have been their whole soul, since that's something Frisk's soul wouldn't be able to absorb. So, to comment on your statement,

<p style="font-weight:400;">"<span style="font-weight:400;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",Helvetica,Arial,HiraKakuPro-W3,"HiraginoKakuGothicProW3","HiraginoKakuGothicPro","ヒラギノ角ゴProW3",メイリオ,Meiryo,游ゴシック,YuGothic,"ＭＳＰゴシック","MSPGothic","ＭＳゴシック","MSGothic",sans,sans-serif;font-size:16px;">Chara's Soul survived it, because it is in their nature" 

<p style="font-weight:400;">Chara's soul couldn't have survived, because Frisk's soul wouldn't be able to absorb it, since there's a condition if you remember, that a human cannot absorb a human soul. But it WOULD be able to absorb an essence, as nothing is saying it wouldn't.

<p style="font-weight:400;">And before you say that Chara's soul stayed there, no. Chara was with us all the time as they say: "That feeling, that's me" - they've been with us all the time, so they must have also been with us without their soul.

<p style="font-weight:400;">Another possibility is that yes, they did have their soul, but when Frisk fell, their essence then "jumped" onto Frisk. That could work, except there's nothing to back such argument up, while I do have something to back my argument up: Without its own soul, it could have interpreted Frisk's soul as Chara's soul (after all, they have the same color), which could have initiated the jump from Chara's body into Frisk's soul - essentially thinking that its soul has returned. However, I know that this won't convince you, so I've got one more argument prepared:

<p style="font-weight:400;">If Chara's soul survived, Asgore would have utilized it. He wouldn't let Toriel take it, and if she left with it, he would have went back for it. Why? Well, we pretty much know that he would have tried to do anything in order to minimalize the casualties. He even refused to go to the surface and instead meekly waited for the humans to come to him. And actually, I think Toriel wouldn't just run away with it. She wasn't completely opposed to this idea, she was only disgusted by his lack of full initiative (she scolded him for not being brave and going to the surface), so I think she would have even agreed with utilizing Chara's soul in this way. If Chara's soul survived, we would see it in a jar, one way or the other.

<p style="font-weight:400;">Do you know why I'm being so rude? I am baffled by your lack of knowledge of the lore. I've been digging into this, engaging in discussions for quite some time now, and debating whether Chara's soul survived or not is a thing of the past for me now. Those discussions have been resolved like a year ago already. All I'm saying, is that the proof of human essences existing is there, in the game. It is the fact that Chara was with us, but without their soul. As that soul would have otherwise been utilized, not buried.