Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-32182236-20180823180952

"Well that's just called being a coward."

Gerson explains what his reasons for not wanting it before were. I believe he didn't change his mind at all:Asgore himself admitted the declaration of war was just a fit of rage:He likely didn't mean it.

"Wouldn't no hope imply suicide rather? I wonder what kept him going."

Me too. He actually does kill himself when you spare him...

"I think he did. It fits his character."

I think he didn't:It goes against the fact that he continued the war.

..Look, that's one of those things that we can never find out for sure. But the point is, he didn't have hope. And if hope truly was literally a part of the SOUL, a SOUL couldn't exist without it. This meaning was implied by the next line, saying that since humans don't need these things to exist, the nature of SOUL as a whole is unknown. Meaning the implied meaning was monsters need these things to exist. Which Asgore debunks.

"I think he does. He's just conflicted on the method. He does want freedom for everyone, but not like this. If he didn't want freedom, he would be actively trying to go against the wishes of the monsters."

That's exactly what he was doing. Meekly hoping another human never arrives? He didn't want Frisk to show up, and when they did, he wanted to lose. He WANTED that last SOUL to win, and monsters to remain forever trapped underground.

"Well? Are you healthy? :>"

There's a limit to what we can do today. Accepting this is healthy. ..We can't save Asriel, for example. And, more in context with Clam Girl, we can't meet Suzy.

Monsters being trapped underground is happier than every human being obliberated in a second war between humans and monsters. Wouldn't you agree there?

"As if Toriel or Asgore let that happen... or Frisk for that matter."

..Evidence suggests that you can't SAVE or LOAD on the Surface, so Frisk can in fact fail now.

"Why do you keep saying that? You know it's a nonsense, what would even be their motive for this?"

..Either to give your SOUL to Asgore, or absorb your SOUL and become immensely powerful. Megalomaniac monsters can exist too, that trait isn't restricted to humans.

"I know that."

So why'd you use that as evidence that monsters don't want to fight?

"He's an exception in pretty much anything."

..What?

..Also, as I said in the same post, Toriel and Mettaton can also see your HP in battle.

"And stop?"

Yes, and stop. If they're willingly and knowingly hurting you, then they want to fight.

"Well tell me, why would they keep attacking you on subsequent encounters after you spared them? We know it's the same monsters, since you can keep encountering monsters even after there's only one left."

The last monster that we can encounter can change species:It's not the same monster. The monster count is a limit to the number of monsters that will approach you-Once you've met the kill count, the monsters are likely now afraid to approach you.

"Maybe you need DT to get offended."

..Perhaps. After all, offense happens when you do something violating their beliefs and principals-And they're typically firm. Determination is firmness of purpose, resolution: If one had less DT, they would more malleable mentally, and thus, easily swayed. ..That would explain why it's so easy to turn them from hostile to spareable. (Which would have to be explained even under your theory, since you say when you attack them, they could turn hostile.. Well, they're still spareable using the same principals.)

It does mean that we can't use the fact that they don't lose spareability like that as evidence they don't want to fight, though.

"Good thing the others ONLY recall their friendships with us and nothing else."

The world's reset after a Genocide Run:Of course they don't recall that run. But talking to Toriel gives a response as you looking like you've seen a ghost, or that you saw her die, if you killed her before. (That is, since your last True Reset or Genocide Run)

"Practically, it doesn't matter. It matters with Flowey, but no one else."

Still means this isn't the core principal that defines the game, if it has exceptions.

"He merely knew you would be tempted to do that, so he prepared for the occassion. But nowhere in the game does any character give you the hint to attempt this route. Maybe Gerson, but I seriously doubt he's the reason the players did this run."

Then explain the "activity level" thing found within the game's files.

https://duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=https%3A%2F%2Ftcrf.net%2FUndertale

(Section 5)

"Activity Level A is shown if you get a neutral ending. Activity Level B is shown if you complete a pacifist route. Activity Level C is shown if you fight Sans twice or kill him. If none of the requirements are met, "No Information" is shown instead."

A is Neutral, B is Pacifist, C is Genocide. Neutral, Pacifist, Genocide. The path across the three routes you were meant to take.

"Implying the underlying nature that is common for all types of souls is unknown. The only thing known are the differences between the two races. It's just the reason for those differences that is unknown."

Yes, that's what the book implies. Being that yes, monster SOULs ARE made of these things. But Asgore has proven that you don't need these things to exist. (Not that nobody has them, but that you don't need them to exist, which would mean literally EVERYONE has them. So not every single monster to ever exist has hope. There's a difference.)

"Do you know why I think the books speak absolute truth? Because we never discover their author, which already transforms them into a kind of lore."

The intro makes more sense as a lore. We know the book at least HAS an author, and it's a monster author. The intro has no author-The latter part being flat-out flashbacks of Chara.

"And then, if any of them were false, that would kinda make them pointless from a meta POV, don't you think?"

Not quite:They serve as evidence for what the monsters say about themselves:Their culture.

"Why would Toby put them in, only to hide in a complex reason as for why they're false somewhere in the game?"

It's not complex. Literally all you have to do to see that it's false is see that Asgore didn't have hope, which was implied several different times. The Underground was even devoid of hope after the death of Chara. Which, if the books were correct, should mean that every monster's SOULs stopped functioning.

"The intro gives us starting info that is meant to be broken. I can understand that. But I don't see any obvious hints that the books are ever supposed to get challenged."

The fact that they're books made by an author, in a library, and that any race would have bias towards themselves. And that they make claims that just seem too good to be true:Literally MADE of love, hope, and compassion?

You know what they say:If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

"If something the books speak of contradicts them, rather than disregarding the books, I look for an explanation of the contradiction."

I've done that too, before, but that was only when it looked like there was a contradiction, when in fact there wasn't one. Where the negation was never flat-out shown by the game. Here, we flat-out see proof that yes, there was no hope. The book says a SOUL would need it to exist. Viola, a contradiction, the book must be false.

"If something were to challenge the nature of the books themselves, such as Alphys commenting they've been scribbled by some teens who were coming out of personal life experiences (you can imagine what kind of deep experience that was, after all, teenagers are the deepest philosophers of them all, everyone knows that /s), I would probably start disregarding them too."

They were placed right next to other books that imply they were written by school students.

"Uhhh, am I at the page minimum yet? I'm kinda sick of writing this"-End of the book about monster funerals

"(Here I am. Writing this book.)"-Yellow Book

"Therefore, if a being with a powerful SOUL struck with the desire to kill.... Umm, let's end the chapter here."

Clear lack of professionalism across the other books. Seems the Librarby isn't good at choosing reliable sources.