Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-27907368-20160428221757/@comment-27907368-20160429101620

First and foremost: ''' thank you for your reply! ''' I love hearing from other fans and theorists, especially ones that put effort into their responses! :D

''I’m putting a note here: my friend spoke briefly with Toby and he (apparently) said he doesn’t like the term “genocide”. I don’t really like it either, so I’m going to use dust lust. ^^’ Thank you for understanding, love you all. <3 ''

I was quite excited about some parallels my one friend hypothesized and it showed in the eclectic presentation of the first section. The critical dogma is that the player, Chara and Frisk work together in Undertale. So long as we agree that Frisk and the player are not synonymous, the theory works. I’ll try to explain why I ventured down the determination-lies-with-us path.

 §  Chara and Frisk are similar in that they have specific requirements that need to be met before they declare themselves. Both essences can only gain full control in one specific route. This is why I look on the protagonist as a vessel that could either harbor Frisk or Chara; the two spirits are at odds within the physical form. The player guides the vessel and can choose to relinquish control to either human.

 §  The player takes control of the protagonist in one way or another. Post-pacifist Flowey tells Chara as much: “Leave Frisk alone”. In dust lust, he says that Chara is running with a stolen SOUL. At the end of genocide, who has Frisk’s SOUL? Do we play as Frisk? Given the aforementioned quote, I don’t believe we do.

 §  So, what are we if not these two pivotal characters? I believe we’re a good source of determination that keeps resetting and trying again before Frisk or Chara has been fully awoken. I’m not trying to detract from their power or marginalize them; I recognize that they have opposite endings and that these endings have the same probability of occurring at the beginning of a timeline.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:2.25pt0in2.25pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">In the beginning, neither essence has self-determination, or the ability to choose a path without being controlled. This may be why we don’t get Frisk’s ability of “re-fusing”; they’re apathetic and find it hard to be determined when they are a part of timeline that they are witnessing more than choosing. And maybe Chara is bogging them down. I don't know.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:15.75pt;">'''<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border:1ptnonewindowtext;padding:0in;">The protagonist’s actions – are they important? Quick answer: sometimes. '''<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">I think we agree that independent actions in the dust lust route are notable. Seeing that many neutral and true pacifist actions remain the same, I will overlook the vast majority of the game. However, the true pacifist ending surely exemplifies Frisk; they name themselves in this route. http://undertale.wikia.com/wiki/Mettaton/In_Battle - a prompt wasn’t provided

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">During the Asriel fight, the protagonist reaches for their SAVE file without a prompt . This is the first time the protagonist even mentions SAVE files. After the battle, they tell Asriel that their name is Frisk. They aren’t Chara and they aren’t the player. If you talk to Mettaton after the barrier is broken, he will ask you a question in which the dialogue box tells you “(A yes or no prompt was not provided.)” Mettaton reacts as if we agreed with him.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">It’s important to note that  neither  essence is us and that they eventually take control from us (or we give it to them; whichever you’d prefer). Frisk’s essence is kinder than Chara’s in this regard.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:15.75pt;">'''<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border:1ptnonewindowtext;padding:0in;">Chara and Frisk – sharing a SOUL post-pacifist (and not post-genocide?)? '''<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:12pt0in;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Yep. How else does Chara have the ability to perform a true reset? They do not possess their own SOUL and are bound to Frisk. Recall that they have to ask us for a SOUL in the end of genocide.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:12pt0in;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Frisk’s SOUL did show an ability to re-fuse at the end of true pacifist; this ability is reminiscent of the Amalgamates’. Determination made the fallen monsters melt together and we know that there is a lot of determination flowing in this final battle – is it completely unfounded to think that Chara’s essence becomes fused to Frisk’s SOUL?

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:15.75pt;">'''<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border:1ptnonewindowtext;padding:0in;">FLOWEY’s warning – short redux. '''<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:12pt0in;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">We can only see things when a physical form exists. In the end of dust lust, Chara laughs at us as she approaches and slices our body. When we reload the game, we see nothing; this may be because we no longer have a body. We’re a SOUL, floating in the void.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:12pt0in;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">So, FLOWEY speaking to us means that we have a body. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be able to see. Since I think Chara and Frisk are fused and share a body, what else am I to do than to explain it this way. ^^’

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border:1ptnonewindowtext;padding:0in;">Soul jumping in Asriel’s boss fight  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:12pt0in;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Chara is the demon that comes when they are called. Asriel was his innocent little self before he said Chara’s name and transformed into the God of Hyperdeath. Chara is never distinguished from the protagonist, either. And yet, they aren’t one and the same. I’m going to attempt some bullet points:

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:2.25pt0in2.25pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Chara enjoys STATS and the number 9. There are an abundance of 9’s in Asriel’s game data. The same applies for the Lost Souls.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:2.25pt0in2.25pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">This someone else appears after we save our monster friends. I can remember one character that had a goat family and was a beacon of hope to monsters.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in0in0.0001pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">You reach out and call  their  name. Not his. You  know  Asriel’s name. Chara is not fully distinguished from him because Chara isn’t a person; they are an essence that is corrupting Asriel.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in0in0.0001pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Boss Asriel is smiling until we SAVE this “someone else”. Then,  he starts crying . This is Chara’s smiling changing into Asriel’s crying. After being SAVED, Chara ebbs from Asriel and returns to Frisk.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:2.25pt0in2.25pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">We have so much determination by the end of the battle that Chara comes back to our SOUL. Remember that Chara doesn’t require STATS to be called – their prerequisites are a “human soul” and “determination”.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:2.25pt0in2.25pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">The third person perspective we see is the same as the beginning of Undertale – before Asriel was introduced. The story of Chara falling is shown in sepia, in third person. The same style is seen here (and in the true pacifist photo).

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:15.75pt;">'''<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border:1ptnonewindowtext;padding:0in;">Why does it matter who is where? '''<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:12pt0in;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">The battle mechanics change based on the stage of this fight. Let’s look into them. Chara is called into Asriel. Frisk’s SOUL now re-fuses. Also unique to this battle:

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:2.25pt0in2.25pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Hoping and Dreaming. Both facets that further solidify the inability to lose this fight. Hope gets you a bunch of Last Dreams and Dreaming reduces his attack.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:2.25pt0in2.25pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Last Dream – “The goal of “Determination”.”

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:2.25pt0in2.25pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">SAVE-ing.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:4.8pt0in6pt;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">After calling for Chara to SAVE them:

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in0in0.0001pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">The SOUL will not shatter. Instead, its HP approaches 0 but never reaches 0 . I remember Chara breaking rules to win in the dust lust route, too.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:2.25pt0in2.25pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">After the fight, Asriel says that he had the compassion of every monster in the Underground because all of their SOULs were inside of him. The Lost Souls are hopeless shadows of what they were – so something changed from him getting their SOULs to them fighting us.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in0in0.0001pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  '''<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border:1ptnonewindowtext;padding:0in;">Asriel overpowered Chara once. '''<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">What's changed here? Well, there are a lot more STATs involved. Chara-in-life likely didn't have STATs because she didn't kill monsters.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in0in0.0001pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">He never directly apologizes for the battle. Even in his post-pacifist flowerbed scene, he says that he did some weird stuff as a  flower ... no mention of the goat thing.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:2.25pt0in2.25pt30pt;text-indent:-0.25in;line-height:15pt;"> §<span style="font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'TimesNewRoman';">  <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Then, he tells us that Chara wasn’t the best and that they shared control over their body when they went to the Surface originally.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:4.8pt0in6pt;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">That’s an interesting detail to add. Is it somehow relevant to Frisk? Maybe we just experienced that and Asriel is giving us a clue by four that the same thing will happen to Frisk - which is what allows for a true reset.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:12pt0in;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:12pt0in;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Man. This is a lot, and I am sorry if it's more than what you asked about. Gah. D:

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:12pt0in;line-height:15.75pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">I will respond to more later – I think maybe I addressed some things possible? :D Thank you for your time, again!

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:12pt0in;line-height:15.75pt;"> Then why doesn't it say Asriel to begin with? Did we forget his name after that intro sequence? :)