Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31981697-20170722123329/@comment-32182236-20170823205549

2)He activated the HUD and started a "FIGHT". We somehow have infinite HP, but either way, the black background and white "attacks", plus our SOUL moving around means the HUD was activated. Sort of like the Papyrus date!

No, not every room has a name. Some do, like the Final Corridor, but others, like the room with Papyrus' multicolored puzzle do not. Each of these rooms exist as a file, and that FILE has a name, but file names aren't stuff you can find in actual gameplay. We all know abc123_a.ogg isn't canon, after all. If it's in the gameplay, it's canon. Otherwise, we can dismiss it, as it never happens in the game. For example, the Dirty Hacker Ending. So unless we can find the name of that room within the actual game, then it has no canon name. (Frisk's sprite names start with "main_chara") Also, Toby exists as a character within the game's story. He steals Papyrus' special attack and your artifact, for example. He could also be a game designer here too. This is Toby's room as the Annoying Dog, not Toby's real-life room.

I said it was around the present, and that 201X was in the past. My guess was somewhere in the early 2020's.

3.3)Then why don't we have any gold to start with, and why do we start with full HP? That too is data. You see? You can have LV without the ability to SAVE/LOAD. LV is a common stat. There's a reason why Sans knows about it, and doesn't say anything about it being purely for ones with determination. All humans have LV, though it could be 1 like Pacifist Frisk.

3.5)No, it just means humans can't see each others' HUDs. And no, FRISK'S LV is 20 in a Genocide Run. All the stats that affect us are that of FRISK. Remember, Chara killed Flowey, someone who is LV9999. They should gain a LOT of EXP from that.

And what makes Frisk so special in this case? Why do they have a HUD and not the other humans? Chara uses the same attack that we do when they attack the world, so they DO use the same red line attack, it's just humans can actually see that. Besides, not a SINGLE human SOUL was taken. Not ONE. Isn't that quite suspicious? There's several possible explanations for this.

1-Somehow, NO humans died. That includes dying of natural diseases, as a monster could take the SOUL of a dead human, ala Asriel. ...Yeah, way too farfecthed.

2-Humans somehow took that ability away from the monsters.. And gave it back to them after the war for some reason? But, if they took the ability away, the reason for the war was gone, and there was no need to fight.

3-Humans used the attack ability to stop any monsters in their way. And since monsters can't see it coming, it always hits.. And remember, they were using real weapons, real knives.. So their ATK stat would allow them to one-shot pretty much any monster. We also know that except for Sans, humans always have the initiative of battle-The ability to strike first.

4-Humans can SAVE and LOAD on the Surface, and somehow one human is able to prevent the death of every other human ever..

Yeah, I'm going with explanation 3. It's the most plausible solution. Unless you have a proper justification of why the others are better, or have a valid fifth explanation, humans won the war because of this attacking mechanic.

3.6)Frisk has no canon backstory. We have to craft our own backstory for Frisk, just like we would for characters in tabletop RPG's. Frisk is just another character that we're roleplaying. The only things about Frisk we do not determine is their SOUL trait (We don't even get a personality virtue, but the vague determination red), and their name. EVERYTHING else, including their own backstory? Us! And HOW would he be not giving us a chance to attack? Why is doing nothing a way to do that? With the HUD, the explanation is simple-He didn't attack, it's his turn, so we can't choose FIGHT-We're trapped in the box. But what about using an overworld interpretation, as that's the one you're defending?

3.7)So, why is Chara the one who gets the stats, and then tell us? Why aren't the monsters telling us directly, or something?

4.1)Duplication's the same no matter what object you're duplicating.. You're taking whatever the object is made of, and recreating it somewhere else, either magically, or by altering the molecules of the surrounding air to create the object. If you can make a station out of air, you can make ketchup out of air.

4.2)And then tells Chara NOT to reset after we beat him. Also, if Asriel has to kill Frisk first, that means Frisk, at this point, is more determined than the six other humans combined! It seems red really does mean determination after all! =)

4.6)The spear is indeed part of the green mode. You can't have a green mode without the spear, and therefore, the kindness human would have also had a spear in battle. And yes, Undyne wanted the fight to be easier so that it's fair. She could very well give complex attacks when we're green, but she chooses not to.

4.10)Point noted. But still, if they'd been trapped for millenia, why COULDN'T the war have happened around 100BC, before the invention of the Julia Calendar? And remember, stuff like this can be misleading. 201X could very well be referring to a monster year. 201X even IS a monster year, as proven by Toriel and Asgore. And our calendar has no "X" years.

Actually, we kind of HAVE to insert this info to make it make sense. If it creates inconsistencies, than it needs to be ABANDONDED. Just like Newtonian physics. Einstien relativity where gravity's curvature of space-time is much more complex, but at least it doesn't create any inconsistencies. You say a lack of evidence is enough to base this assumption, I say that these inconsistencies serve as evidence against said assumption in of itself, and therefore, we need to abandon this assumption.

4.11)It's a viable explanation, only going off the assumption that naming Chara "Frisk" actually makes Chara Frisk. And everything else naturally falls into place. Besides, you wanted an explanation for how Hard Mode is plausible, so I gave you one! Hard Mode DOES make sense!

OUR HUD can only be seen by us(Frisk). Other humans have their own HUDs that only THEY can see, like Chara when they use the HUD to attack the world. We can see the attack, proof that they used the HUD, but we couldn't actually see their HUD. And Sans acknolwedging that it exists DOES at least prove that the HUD exists. While he can't see the HUD, he was able to scientifically deduce its existence, similarly to how we were able to scientifically deduce that gravity is a curvature in space-time.

No, it doesn't create any inconsistencies for the HUD to exist. If anything, the game makes more sense with one. And once again, we can't dismiss what Sans does within the game. That's cherrypicking. If it happens in the game, it happens in the game. Sans is a main character, and these abilities are a big part of the Genocide Story (Sans being the final boss.) We can't pick and choose what parts of the game we want to acknolwedge and which ones we want to just say never happened. We need to base our theories around the evidence, not the evidence around the theories. And Undertale is self-aware of everything but the fact that it's a game with code meant to be "played".

That's argumentum ad passiones.

4.13)They really MUST be super weak. It would literally tale every monster combined to match the strength of ONE human. And there's THOUSANDS of monsters. So humans are thousands of times stronger than monsters. He lost to a 9(?) year old because he, like all other monsters, are probably weaker than 5-year olds.

Toriel left because she knew that if Asgore wanted to free the monsters, he could have crossed the barrier after only getting ONE SOUL, and he did not. This wouldn't make sense unless Asgore already had one SOUL, why get mad at him for not crossing the barrier with one SOUL if he didn't have any SOULs? At that point, Asgore could have actually been going with Toriel's plan, as there would be no difference until the first SOUL was taken.

I'll tell you how I figured out that he didn't have the ability yet.

Sans doesn't know Toriel, he only knows her as a voice. Therefore, he had to have been born AFTER Toriel left. Therefore, he must have also taught Asgore about the HUD after Toriel left, as he didn't exist before then! Asgore gained the ability sometime after Sans existed. And that would be after Toriel left, which would be after the human directly after Chara died to Asgore with no reasonable explanation.

Yes, Asgore had to do it. He had to do it with Frisk as well. Same situation. Why should it be any different? :3

5)They're not tied together, they're two separate quotes. It's "You said something like 'You look horrible' 'Why are you even alive?' What, you didn't say that?" If they were linked, then it would be: "You said something like 'You look horrible. Why are you even alive?' What, you didn't say that?" They're two separate statments. Frisk denied only the first one. And remember, "Heckle" was the only thing we chose. We didn't say "insult", we said "heckle". So we ONLY heckled, and nothing else.

Hey, we were the one who chose to laugh. We're the ones with whatever weird sentimentality you need to laugh at something like that. Ask the player why they chose to laugh. Or why you chose to laugh if you did that. :3 Who knows, maybe we thought it was genuinely funny until the second time, maybe we even thought it was funny then, but Chara didn't think so, and told us that. (But it's much harder to laugh at something twice in a row, so that's probably why we fail afterwards.)

6)Frisk DOES have control over the timeline. They just can't "reach" their SAVE file because they're unable to move. You can just close the game and reload to your previous SAVE point, so you're still in control. Asriel doesn't reset the world or mess around with it. if you do that. And that's NOT how resets work, as we can reset without killing anybody! So Asriel should be able to reset just as we do!