Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31981697-20170722123329/@comment-32182236-20170805124507

I tried replying before, and it vanished. This will be my second attempt.

1)In order to answer the question of why they're altering your stats, despite not actually appearing around your SOUL, we need to understand what a SOUL is in the first place. It's the culmination of your being. And everything in your inventory is also culminated inside of your SOUL-Case in point:You can use items in-battle, despite the fact that heart-shaped objects cannot hold objects.

As for the comics, in the second, the monster didn't ask for the pan. The pan and the Apron were found separately, and now we're shifting the problem onto the monster. In the third, the problem is not Gerson getting it, persay, but why he just went on to sell the gift.

2)And yet, the city isn't futuristic either. It would have to be futuristic if the game happened in 211X. The only reasonable explanation, therefore, would be to say that the monster calendar is different than our calendar. So, how do we convert human dates to monster dates, and vice versa? Well, we don't know, but we do know a few things about it.

First off, while the HUMAN city isn't futuristic at all, the Core's design certainly is. The lasers, the rearrangement of it.. Likely due to Gaster, monster technology is FAR superior to human technology. This could also be because of monsters being more focused on that then say, their weapons, which are inferior to modern weapons (Still using a midevial/Roman spear?) In 201X, monsters just had around the first generation of a cell phone. Monsters. Who are superior to humans in technology. We came up with this 1st gen cell phones around the 1980's, so 201X was likely far before then. The game itself likely take place around the present-The city couldn't have been abandoned for that long, and it looks like a fairly modern city. Perhaps the monsters' year zero is when they first met the humans? Either way, their calendar is ahead of ours in terms of years.

Also, if we're going out-of universe here, Toby could have just cloned Frisk's sprite and changed a few colors, maybe given some of the humans rosy cheeks like Chara.. And there we go, a bunch of humans. Just take all those Frisk reskins and put them in the ending. There ya go.

3)Yes, Frisk CAN "backstab" a "good" Chara. How? By killing all the monsters they love. And yet they still trust Frisk anyway. Also, there's some major clues that Chara actually enjoys the killing, and wants Frisk to do this. First of all, why don't they scold us for doing something so disgusting as to kill Toriel?!?! They scold us when we try to give gifts to Gyftrot more than once (Actually, they flat-out STOP us from doing this, and their comment is "Hey now, you aren't made of money".), so why not, well, MURDERING TORIEL?!?! Secondly, after that, they start to encourage you. When you go to a SAVE point, they tell us how many monsters are left. If we spare Snowdrake, they say "Missed that comedian. Failure." They regard an aborted Genocide Route as a FAILURE. They didn't want us to abort it. If you try to proceed to Undyne before exhausting the kill count, they will say "Strongly felt X left. Shouldn't proceed yet." They flat-out tell us NOT to proceed yet, because they know that will abort the Genocide Route. And they do NOT want that. We are cooperating with Chara, not corrupting them.

Now, let's talk about the actual ending. We've killed everyone (except for Sans and Flowey, that's Chara's doing). What does Chara do? Do they scold us for destroying everyone? For being despicable, and yet another reason why Chara hates humanity? No! They THANK us for what we did! This is when they "realized" the purpose of their reincarnation. Together, they eradicated the enemy. The "monsters" are the "enemy". So Chara hates monsters too now all of a sudden? "Let us erase this world, and move on to the next". That statement is actually a flat-out lie. While Chara does erase the world, they offer us no option to move on to the next togther. Instead, they play dumb and say we came for the old world back, and ask for our SOUL to do this, or to stay in the abyss for all eternity. Chara, that was NOT the deal. The deal was "Let us erase this pointless world, and move on to the next." Not "Let us erase this world and stay here forever unless you give me your SOUL." So, what happens if you recreate the world? Well, Chara will still encourage you to do a Genocide Route like last time! Succeed again, and Chara mentions a perverted sentimentality. "Oh, Chara's scolding us for killing everything and everyone!" Nope. If you say "no" to the question, they say that THAT is the feeling they spoke of. The feeling of perverted sentimentality is the want to bring back the world you destroyed, not to destroy it. And while it may seem like they want to redeem you by saying another path would be better suited if you want to recreate the world again (they suggest you DON'T), they just take over and kill everyone after you actually finish the Pacifist Route. All the evidence together all but screams:"Chara is evil". Not "Chara WAS evil", they very well could have been good. But the Chara we see when Frisk falls down is not the Chara Asriel once knew and loved.

3.1)Yes, but the first sentence isn't. And Chara assumed you said both of them.

3.2)It's actually neither. It's just Chara saying that it's not funny. Why don't they scold you? Well, because they're taking into consideration the possibility that you're laughing away the pain like they once did. In fact, that's probably what's going on!

Chara can't see our HUD, just like we can't see theirs. And every time this seems to happen, the narrator assumed that you did something extra, something that wasn't a part of what you selected in the HUD. If they were reading our HUD, they'd know that we weren't crying, we didn't choose "Laugh and cry" after all!

4)The only time we see Sans in Hotland, and not in his station would be when he takes you to Grillby's, followed by the hotel. He's almost constantly moving around. In order to take his station with him here, teleportation would have to be his method of travel. So he'd be teleporting and teleporting and teleporting! (Also, I have another hypothesis on what happens when the screen goes black-He just removes all the light surrounding Frisk's eyes-Since Frisk isn't getting any light, they can't see!) And the monsters at Grillby's would probably notice Sans teleporting around with a station.. And if Sans is trying to hide that ability from Frisk, what's to say he's not also trying to hide it from everyone else? It would take him an immense amount of power to disable EVERY single monsters' vision during the teleporting, and it's probably make a scene. And yes, the hotdog station is also the same one from Snowdin (hey, it's covered in snow too.) Remember Sans' sock in their house? The one Papyrus demands him to pick up, so he does... But always finds a way around the rules to NOT put it away? Sans could be playing one of those with Papyrus!

"SANS! WHAT ARE YOU DOING OUTSIDE YOUR STATION?"

"bro, this is my station."

4.1)Once again, the HUD is only seen by Frisk, the one using it. And some if the other points is about whether we can be Frisk, or are somehow canonically our own separate entity like in OneShot.

Except they're not a mindless zombie, they're US. Do you consider every character in every game with branching choices a mindless zombie because you choose their actions? Because they move exactly as you do in the game? What we're doing is roleplaying their actions, we give them character. Because, we are that character in that universe. And are we, the player, a mindless zombie? I don't think so. So neither are our character aliases.

But you could talk it out and not get put into a jar! Eating the Butterscotch pie in front of Asgore weakens his defense and attack, because he doesn't wish to fight as much. There ARE ways to get around to sparing him. After all, Toriel does it in the True Pacifist Ending! So couldn't we too spare the king? (Well, we can't, but that's BECAUSE the Mercy button was destroyed, not the other way around. Speaking of losing MERCY buttons, on the Genocide Route, when you face Asgore, there IS no Mercy button. I guess you lose that button at LV20.) And I think I figured out the solution to that strange paradox. It all comes down to Asgore's motivations. First, Asgore knows that if he wins against Frisk, there WILL be another war between humans and monsters. One that monsters will probably lose to again. He had to give the monsters hope, so he attacks, and doesn't want Frisk to back out of it, so he destroys the MERCY. But, if he destroyed the FIGHT button, that pretty much guarantees that he will win the fight. And Asgore doesn't want to win. Nobody will notice that strategy, as monsters can't see the HUD in the first place. He wants to be the one killed. If you spare Asgore (you actually can after almost killing him, and the button is still cracked, since Asgore destroyed it at the start of the fight, hinting that yes, it was physically destroyed, just put back together!), and have already fought Omega Flowey, he won't interrupt Asgore's conversation. What will instead happen is that Asgore kills himself. Asgore never intended on living through the fight, which is why he destroyed MERCY and not FIGHT. You remind him of Chara, after all. (And he might not be that far-off, Chara IS there... Which brings up another piece of evidence supporting red/determination. Frisk was the one to awaken Chara with their determination. But, six humans fell before Frisk, and THEY didn't awaken Chara! What made Frisk so special? Chara easily could have been the narrator for the human directly after them, but they weren't, since somehow they haven't been awakened.

Also, wouldn't changing our SOUL mode to green still be "giving" us a spear if that's part of the mode?

Frisk attacks through the HUD. When they attack, a red line only humans can see appears over the monster, and then the monster takes damage if they didn't move away from the line that they didn't even know existed. And dodging is definitively a thing-Undyne couldn't land a single blow against Asgore! Monsters have the capability to dodge attacks like this! Are all monsters so perplexed by entering a battle with a human that they forget to move? Except for Sans somehow? Monsters can definitively dodge these kinds of attacks. But none of them do. Because it's not that kind of attack. (Oh, and if that question sounds familiar, like a deja-vu, that's because it's one of the questions you asked before.)

Frisk chooses options with their SOUL, not their chest. When a FIGHT becgins, the SOUL leaves the body, and you take control of the SOUL. And once again, that proves only that Undertale being a game isn't canon. The dog making Undertale is meant to make things more meta-Remember some of those stories that end with one of the characters saying they're going to make that into a story, which is presumably the story you just read? It's kind of like that. It's only fitting for the game of Undertale to end with an explanation on how all this story (NOT A GAME) got a game made put of it (But the story doesn't canonically take place in a game, just like the story in these examples don't canonically take place inside a story) Undertale is a canon game within the world of Undertale. (Or the dog was working on a totally different game like the Halloween Hack. Hey, the game never explicitly said the game the dog made was Undertale, so it doesn't have to be Undertale that the dog made! That works too, and brings back the possibility of it canonically being a game.)

What we see in the game is always evidence we have to take into account. We can't start disregarding evidence willy-nilly, because then we can just disregard ALL the evidence in a similar fashion, and come up with whatever nonsense theory we want! "Flowey has a SOUL!" "There are only FIVE traits!" "WE are Gaster?!" (Just making those theories up. Except they're not actual theories, they go against evidence in the game. And are somewhat "supported" by other evidence.) Now, some stuff we can't dismiss just because it's not in the game, because it's supported BY the game. We never see how the orange and light-blue SOUL modes work, but we know they have to exist somehow-We know the colors exist, after all. We also know there's most definitely more to the Surface than the few pieces of it we can see in the credits. But we can't just take random concepts like, say, the Force, and put it into Undertale.

Actually, no. What happens is that Frisk's SOUL leaves their body, and culminates with all of their inventory. Frisk loses control of their body, and gains control of their SOUL. And their SOUL is, and always WAS a heart-shape. No matter how you move your SOUL throughout the battle, your body remains in the same place the battle began in. Every time. You can't move your body during a FIGHT-Only your heart-shaped SOUL.

5)Perhaps the HUD is just Frisk's way of seeing the world? Something else-The room you're in isn't pitch-black if that phone Alphys gave you is giving off a little light. You could see yourself that way. Oh, and he could have done it by just making a little barrier preventing light from reaching Frisk for the time of his teleportation. No light, no vision. Just blackness.

The theory you linked did, saying that Sans' shortcuts are Sans altering the game's code to place room warps or "doors" wherever he wants, and set them to wherever he wants, and that the Sans prank across space and time was him using this ability to warp to the D-Timeline (For the dead one with Gaster). What's your explanation for how he's doing it, then?

6)That doesn't really make logical sense-He should know better, and here's why.

Alphys flat-out tells you that you need both a human and a monster SOUL to cross the barrier and go home. In the True Pacifist Endinf, you don't absorb any SOULS. So you CAN'T cross the barrier and leave Asriel, unless he breaks the barrier for us, which would mean he planned that the whole time. "If you do defeat me, I'll GIVE you your happy ending!" Asriel will give it to us? How? By breaking the barrier.

So, what if that is a lie? We don't know if Frisk made it past the barrier in the Neutral Route, there's evidence supporting both sides. So, what if it WAS possible to leave the Underground this way? Well, as it is, Frisk is probably going to reset again. Why? Because it'd be JUST like the Neutral Ending. When you get the Neutral Ending. Flowey mentions there's a way to get a "better ending". But, if you already crossed the barrier, what could he be talking about? Freeing the monsters, perhaps? And if you just cross right through that barrier and leave Asriel and the other monsters, that's not freeing the monsters. You still don't get your "happy end". Either way, you're not getting the happy ending from a purely narritive/story perspective. Either you don't free the monsters at all, or you DO, and then have trying to get humans to let monsters in to worry about, and you'll have to stay determined to stop a monster from absorbing a HUMAN SOUL and vice-versa. Even if you're not the amabassador, you still have the latter to worry about, and I don't really know how well of an ambassador Papyrus would be....