Talk:Chara/@comment-36073590-20180704133156/@comment-33883848-20180724120352

"Okay, are you aware that you're still talking? Do you even know what an evil person is? What the others did was wrong but that doesn't make them evil, and we're not even talking about them we're talking about Chara. An evil person is someone who kills without remorse, either to further their own goals or just for the heck of it. They don't care about anybody but themselves, that's who Chara is. If you can't understand the difference between an evil person and someone who only does something wrong, then talking to you really is stupid and pointless."

Of course what others did is only wrong but somehow Chara is evil because you say so.Lol Flowey and Asgore arent bad they only did a little mistake ,an easily forgivable mistake,what the freak make them better persons than Chara?What says that an evil person is only someone who kill without remorse??Its your own definition right?lol i use my dictionary's deffinition "someone who deliberately do bad things or want to"and you your owns and consider me as a stupid person becaus of it. Chara is not different from any character as theres no evidence of them being evil ,and why Toby would create a single evil character?.And i already showed that Chara's plan to free the monsters was genuine,plus theres indications that they loved the dreemurs as the family's photo angled towards their bed just like they wanted to see them before sleeping or something ,they also felt remorse to kill 6 persons as they said that thy have to be "strong"to free the monstres "we'll be strong,we'll free everyone",in fact they wanted to feel emotionaly strong to kill 6 humans which means that they felt emotionaly bad to kill. So stop to force your opinions without any evidences

"Not pointless, none of them are false and none are true. Because theories are just assumptions made by people who don't have the answer to something, with only the possibility that one or a few of them may or may not be true."

That wanst adressed to you at all

" Lol, you kill me. In other words, you want to prove that no one is evil, not a single person has one bad bone in their bodies, including Chara. I'm guessing you think The Joker isn't evil either, just a crazy person who needs help. That aside, Chara is evil, and I'm not talking about the others who commited a few wrongs. Chara is what I stated an evil person to be, or have you forgotten that Chara killed Asgore and Flowey, who was Asriel, without mercy or hesitation? You have an excuse for Chara for that? If you can't come up with a valid one then you'll only be proving my point."

If i follow my dictionnary's definition no evil people doesnt exist,bad people the ones who commited crimes,are selfish etc..yes they do exist but philosophicaly evil people dont exist as theres always understable motives behind their actions.Also theres reasons why Chara killed Flowey and asgore :its to become completely emmotionaly strong as they says that they reached the absolute of the emotional power after killing Asgore and flowey"now we have reached the absolute"(after all you reaches the max of lv by killing Sans,which mean that Chara needed also to kill their family to become completely emotionaly strong to erase the world)its also indicated by their strong emotional reaction upon seing the family's photo,that why also they didnt let Frisk to kill them.In fact Chara killed them to become compltely emotionally distanced to erase the world as they still felt emotionaly attached to their family ,the multiple strikes dealt to Flowey can be explained by their anger of Asriel's betrayal. So see theres always understable motives behind bad actions

@rafip . ". Facts and events clearly described doesn't require theories, but stuff that is implied, insinuated or just vague can only be speculated."

Theres always theories that can be revealed as true or can actually be canon

"aaaand you are just reading entire Chara's speech"

Lol because their speach doesnt need interpretations ,its explicit and really easy to understand so just read their speech

"It is still good argument to not interprete their words in any way and to not use it as excuse for their deeds." I wanted to say that I don't want to interprete Chara's speech and use it for example as excuse."

Its pretty clear that they says that their plan was common to Asriel's one:free the monsters "our plan is failled right?",its explicit and clear the failled plan was both's and not Chara's one.And in the official japanese version that was almost enterely done by Toby fox they literally says "asriel and my plan failled right?".So wheres issues? . ", i personally don't see any elements that lack of logic I could, but count all plotholes isn't point of this debate and I don't want to flood comment section like others did, and finally - If you can't see it by yourself, I can't help it. In other words I have strong feeling that I will waste time. However, there is an example of what you asking for - first link of chain of series of plotholes nested in the very foundations of the main story line http://undertale.wikia.com/wiki/The_War_of_Humans_and_Monsters#WikiaArticleComments"

Even though theres some insignifiant plot holes that doesnt mean we can ignore the game's facts as toby fox wouldnt that much not care about his own game and it main points ,the patches proove that Toby fox care about logic in his game

"Does this mean you aren't going to speculate anymore?"

We would conclude the most logical interpretation that isnt contradicted by the game's facts and that make sence with many elements from the game.I dont know if you call it "a speculation"or not but for me its a theory as speculation is something that is not implied in the game

"One of factors that makes visually and technically unattractive Undertale so popular is its melodramatic, farfetched, ambiguous, questionable and lacking in logic story. People will going to discuss about it forever without reaching any consensus or getting satisfactory answers due to everyone wanting to share their opinions in the same time treating them as facts. This is perfect feed for fandom and all sorts of theorists: It doesn't matter what people say about you, as long as they're talking about you. Intentional or not this is fanservice."

He already stated that he didnt think that the game would be popular,https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/undertale.tumblr.com/post/150397346860/retrospective-on-undertales-popularity/amp&ved=2ahUKEwjQj_GB1bfcAhXDA8AKHQc3DjkQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1ouO9aLsg1jwseJm-bRmJp

So i dont think he used the mystery as a fanservice as he didnt expect so much fans,plus given his view of the game's theories (in his tumblr forum he called youtube's theories on Undertale "strange")and his trolling about how people are quik to speculate on small things (the famous Sans's dick tweet)iam pretty sure he created this game as a so mysterious to keep mysteries.Its even indicated by a vocal message in the game's code where Toby lament about how its impossible to have mysteries nowadays

" If Toby Fox feels like he's been insulted then I would rather to hear it from him not from you."

Fan service proove that authors dont have original ideas ,so sorry but at his place i would see that as an insult

"It really doesn't matter how you are going to name an act of convincing a child to kill several people, which is as far as I know required to take their Souls."

Asriel went along with the plan at his own will when Chara was already dead ,he agreed because he never wanted to doubt of Chara"please wake up ,i dont like this plan anymore,no i said i said i'll never doubt of you,6 we just need to get six".I dont know whatever Chara persuasion"yeah well be strong!we'll free everyone"was manipulation (even so it doent seem like a manipulation since their goal to free the monsters was genuine and as wikipedia says manipulation requires to hide bad intentions)but Asriel didnt agree with the plan because of their persuasion

"Yeah they deserve a slap for this... So, on the one hand you do agree that Chara is guilty and deserves punishment for their undeniable bad conduct and you won't defend them - I never wanted to belittle their guilt or to justify their actions... I NEVER said that chara isnt bad. At the same time you don't wish me to call Chara evil (or bad, makes no difference for me) because all undertale's characters are (...) neutral and complex and you just want me to understand them instead of think they are bad for the sake of bad, which I disagree with since I don't need that to see their undeniable guilt. In the other hand your argumentation revolves around your subjective interpretation of evil: My dico says that evil "is behaving completely deliberately bad" and your not so sneaky attempt to justify those characters: Noone actions make them evil people ,max bad but not evil and theres no exuse for what they done. I myself dont live in any comfortable world i want to debunk all misconceptions regards Chara and even other characters (...) Evil is something that does not exist in your real world(Aswell as in Undertale) Even killing intentionally people isnt evil as theres always understable motives but still deliberatly killing people is extemely amoral and bad and it make you a bad person. You either trying to foist your point of view/opinion on others, baselessly justify conduit of characters or you just don't know what are you doing. Case closed people, you can go home. That's enough spamming."

Listen its my own interpretation of evil i had since i read my dictionary's definition,i dont want to force this definition on anyone,if you dont want to rule with this one so go on.And i wanted you to understand Chara not to belittle their guilt since you seem to think they are bad without reasons just to make people suffer without reason