Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190617222636/@comment-32182236-20190703001602

And how do you know there even was a statue in the MTT memorial fountain, when the plaque only mentions the fountain, not a statue?

Good point. Perhaps there wasn't any statue at all before Mettaton. Which means perhaps the fountain was made ahead of time, in expectation for it to be used when a royal member inevitably DOES die. Meaning it wasn't made for anyone, specifically. It's explain why Mettaton was able to get away with defacing it... He's not defacing anyone, and with sox SOULs, and no prince, it's quite unlikely that a royal member would die before the monsters went free. (Not impossible, though. It happens on every Neutral Run. We're trying to use the monsters' perspective.)

Also, just to recap, Asgore’s calendar, which the narrator calls old, says Chara arrived at New Home at The End Of 201X. Which would be in winter. We see no flowers when Chara falls in Undertake’s intro, backing this up. And Chara’s plan required buttercups to poison herself, and Asriel tracked golden flower seeds back to the Underground with him.

I suppose I should have been more clear.

I hinted earlier that the monster years seem to be inconsistent with what we see in-game. Chara fell in 201X, a long time ago, yet when Frisk falls, we find ourselves in modern-day. This means what the monsters call 201X is in fact the past for us. My guess being the 1600's because there was still the village of the humans. A singular village. Chara's home village. And they attacked blow after blow, not shot after shot-Guns weren't used commonly. And if there's no difference between monster years and human years, this must be happening in Spring 2011 at the earliest (assuming that the "X" in 201X is supposed to be a 0.)

Did how the humans attack Asriel make sense in 2011 or later? Why wasn't it a town or a city? Why did nobody use guns?

Because it was the past.

So now we have evidence that the monster calendar does not match the human calendar. Meaning it's possible that the end of 201X for the monsters was not winter at all, but rather spring.

However, seasons were established well before the Gregorian calendar, so I'd still call that an extra assumption, which is why I added it to the list of assumptions that the Asriel theory requires. And I'd rather take one assumption than THREE. Hence why I went with Royal Guard rather than Asriel. But now I think it was made for nobody in particular.

However, I have an experiment. Look at the intro. Try and find out if we can tell what season it was from the intro. I spot a vine (or was it a twig?) and no flowers to break Chara's fall. Then again, it could just mean none were planted at the time.

Actually, here’s a new twist on why the fountain couldn’t have been made for a Royal Guard member.

Chara is the first known human to have visited the Underground in the modern age.

Okay.. Can you please justify those last four words? I agree with the rest of the sentence.. Just elaborate on why you think the last four are true.

Before she arrived, the Royal Guard had no enemies to fight, or any way to disguish themselves. So why would one get a fountain?

When the monsters were first trapped underground, they feared further human attacks. So far, far into the earth they walked, until they reached the end of the caverns. That is when they made their new home, which they called.. "Home".

The Royal Guard could have been formed at that point. Before they moved to New Home, fearing the humans no longer.

The monsters of the Beta Timeline would certainly mourn his untimely death. And only realize anything was amiss by re-exploring The Core later when more areas inside it were accessible.

Yeah, that's not my issue with Gaster. My issue with Gaster is that if the monsters remember Gaster, the Gaster Followers don't make sense.

And we have Sure Fire evidence that Beta Gaster engaged in Determination experiments before his death in 201X.

We do? I argue that we have sure-fire evidence that he DIDN'T:His machine wasn't found. Alphys had to make her own using the blueprints left behind. He died before he could start the experiments he wanted to work on.

Because he made The Core. Was the only Royal Scientist to work in The Core before Alphys. And Alphys used blueprints she found in The Core to make her working DE extractor.

Yes, Gaster made blueprints to a machine. A blueprint. He modeled a way to extract determination.. But never got started on it.

The blueprints must have been made by Gaster. He must have been researching Determination.

Or preparing to research Determination.

And he was doing this research before Chara, the First Known Human, arrived.

No, he was doing it before Chara, the First Known Human, died. And that's assuming you're right on the statue being of Gaster. (which, for the sake of argument, I give you said assumption) They fell at the end of 201X, and they and Chara could have both been in the Underground at the same time. Chara could have met Gaster.. And been around when Gaster died.

In fact, that allows me to create an alternate timeline for what happened. (And this is still giving you the assumption that it was of Gaster, and not just plain preparation for a future memorial, since we have no evidence there was ever a statue before Mettaton. This is also specifically the Beta Timeline, not the Alpha Timeline.)

1-Gaster makes the CORE

2-Chara falls

3-Now that Chara fell, Gaster is intrigued with their determination. He intends on using Chara's SOUL for the project, more than likely after they die naturally. He gets started on making the blueprints for an extraction machine..

4-He dies before he even builds the machine and performs his first experiment.