Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-27136653-20180730005945

'''/// A communal response /// @MagomaevaAmina''' @TheHumanAmbassador

"Monster dust is monster essence"

Or maybe the essence is IN the monster dust. After all, it's not the dust that came to life, it was the flower.

"Of COURSE Frisk doesn't turn into one of the six colors, the seventh color already fits in the most"

Or perhaps it's not mood-based. It seems you guys keep confusing traits and moods. If anything, DT is a mood here. But say, is the fundamental color of a soul changing on its own even possible? If not, it's not really about "feeling" integrity, is it?

So then, what IS a dominant trait? The one we display the most often? But what if we oscillate between a few specific traits most of the time, due to the environment around us? Wouldn't the dominant one then be one of those? Doesn't that imply that the traits are environment-based? And are other color combinations possible? Why should red be the only mixed trait? Why IS it the only mixed trait?

See, making these based on actual psychological traits inevitably leads us to base them on the environment. And that implies a mood. You can't do psychological traits without doing moods. And you can't do mood-less psychological traits without resorting to a lifelong personal philosophy. Did the the humans just decide one day in the womb that their lifelong philosophy would be patience, or bravery, et cetera?

So what if it's not connected to their psychology at all? What if their traits are just a rough estimate of their personality, but don't actually have any effect upon them? In Glitchtale, if you obeyed them, you could gain magical powers. That's a nice additive headcanon to such idea. But then again, a bit assumptive.

My current stance is that the traits vaguely represent some aspect of their personality, not their personality overall. And this aspect may differ based on hobbies. For example, I like math. Does that mean my soul has to be purple or cyan? Does that mean that everyone with the same soul as me must be like me? Of course not, there are so many hobbies, not just 7. So inevitably, we come to the conclusion that the soul traits describe how you approach your own tastes, and your own problems. Everyone's comfort bubble is a bit different. Why can't a soldier be kind? Why can't a judge be brave? Why can't an athlete be patient?

People in my opinion have the wrong idea about the traits. They have no scientific basis, which is evident just by trying to turn them into a fair logical system. And I know this personally. You are very different on the outside than on the inside. You may act differently when engaging in different hobbies. You may massively change your behavior just based on your environment.

If nothing fits, then what does? So far, the chakra and fighting style systems haven't failed me.

"Not NO trait, ALL traits."

For example, that. That's explained in the chakra system as a symmetry. Kinda like a neutron being both the sum of positive and negative charges, while having no charge at all. And in the fighting style system as having no preference.

"Perhaps. We're all born with determination, and it takes us a while to expand our other traits."

I don't think traits develop. That would imply an unchanging trait would be established only in early adulthood.

"Actually being yourself isn't specific to red"

Then you aren't thinking correctly about it.

"Not only there is no indication that a mix of traits lead to determination trait"

That's because DT is not a trait, and because you're in denial. The flag LITERALLY said that it's a mix of the 6 other traits.

"Using all six traits is how you GET determined."

I cannot imagine. How does rustling through leaves make you use all 6 traits? How does hoping that the mouse will one day get the cheese make you use all 6 traits? Now you're just stretching it.

"Because determination IS combining all six traits."

Because you think that red is determination. For the sake of my sanity, please refer to red as "red" from now on, not as "DT".

"you're passionate about doing it (green), you'll do it even if things get scary (orange), you'll push through no matter how hard it gets (purple), no matter how long you have to wait (cyan), gaining breat accuracy (yellow) over time, and to uphold the principals you put down, by being yourself (blue)."

Let me know when your definition makes it into the dictionary.

Determination, in layman's terms, is a substance that allows you to do the impossible with your soul. And it usually concerns power. E.g.: don't have enough power? DT will provide you with more.

You can twist the meaning of any positive word so that it implies a connection with determination. Anyone can do that. You aren't proving anything.

"But it's not from random objects, it's from the SAVE points."

The save points stop giving you determination at the end. Or maybe the narrator just goes silent.

"Where is the evidence that implies Chara wasn't always a demon?"

To my yet-sane knowledge, alive humans aren't the same creatures as demons.

"And this power in fact exist in the surface too as the player can load their save point when Frisk is in the surface in the pacifist run"

ARE they on the surface though? Are you ABSOLUTELY sure on that? What if they simply went back to the undeground to execute the true reset?

"We see Flowey just before then, though. And he said he was staying underground. That means we went back underground."

There is no indication we were there. In fact, his words imply the contrary. He wouldn't be speaking about us in third person if we were there. And the assumption that he was speaking to Chara inside Frisk's head doesn't pass. Certainly not if we can simply say he was trying to speak to their grave instead, with no Frisk around.

"Remember, when we're not playing, we're no longer Frisk."

Who are we then? Ourselves? Aren't we ourselves even when playing the game? Dude, take a break xD

"Why did the monsters take their sweet little time building a door before getting banished?"

It's not actually a door, just an arc. But to answer, maybe they didn't build it. Maybe someone else did. You know what's suspicious? That they've had everything they needed to survive and rebuild their civilization in that cave.

"No, it's either dawn or dusk. So there should be twilight if the Surface is directly past the door, with nothing else before then. But there is no light."

Either a mistake from Toby, or the cave continues there. And Chara saying that the twilight is shining through the barrier was probably just metaphorical. Twilight = half dark. I can see the barrier radiating like crazy. There's no way any twilight was shining through that.

"No seriosly what do you want to proove? Its clear and logical that Frisk cross the barrier but you try to contradict it for some non existent reasons"

It's clear, but not logical. Ergo, it's a plot hole, ergo, they didn't cross it, ergo, that room was not located past the barrier, but rather wherever Omega Flowey teleported us to.

"Now, that's already a hint at determination"

Naturally. DT is the action, and a trait is the style of the action.

"You start taking mental notes of what you did, what went wrong, until you eventually find a method that works."

But that's not perseverance. That's analysis. Perseverance is not giving up. So how can it be taking notes and not giving up, when it can't be either, apparently? A third definition would come from how we played with the ball. If we struggle with it, we get this flag. So now it's three contradictory definitions. Perseverance, analysis and struggle.

"Pretty easy to dissect, really. It's simply putting your own style to use. Creating your own solution to the problem."

Which doesn't match the definition of the word "integrity" at all once again. In fact, the exact definition, combined with originality, implies a stubborn sense of morality, something Sans implied Toriel to have, which she does.

"Yellow-Your sure-fire accuracy put an end to the mayhem of 'Ball.'"

Dexterity, justice, order. That's how I understand this one. Dexterity, truth-seeking, aesthetic order. Precise analysis and insight.

"Normally, "Ball" is only described as the obstacle. But now, it is described as "the mayhem of Ball"."

Technically, the other two naturally imply order, so this one isn't even needed to begin with - lawful order and analytical order. But sure, if you don't want to ignore this word, then that's your thing. But I don't think this is some key information. There's no reason for Toby to be puzzling and cryptic in this case. As I said, figure of speech.

"But.. why would being kind to the enemy lead you to a delicious victory?"

Because it's not an enemy. Deja vu ooooooooooo!

For real, the goal is not to kill the ball by putting it in the hole. The goal is to win a game of minigolf. And the ball can symbolize anything, it iself is not even an obstacle! Since when did the difficulty of minigolf come from the ball itself? Never. It's your own dexterity, the shape of the map and the size of the hole that are problematic.

"Ball was always the obstacle. Not only that, kindness really isn't a "strategy" or "method" of solving problems."

All of this is a you-problem. I've solved the conundrum already. Have you?

"You can be concerned about something because it's a problem."

Which, once again, is not the definition of kindness, just like analysis is not the definition of perseverance and just like originality is not the definition of integrity. You are obviously wrong on every single level imaginable, and that's not even mentioning the monster attacks, which are using strings and gravity and whatnot.

RED = additive and exclusive sum, the root, stability, survival/fear // reduction of magic ORANGE = bravery and incentive to move, ergo energy // connection to the energy of physical matter YELLOW = accuracy, purpose, goal, order, truth-seeking, justice // essence GREEN = care, concern, kindness, healing // causality CYAN = patience, ergo logic, analysis, knowledge-seeking // spacetime BLUE = integrity, morality, originality, ergo unchanging wisdom/opinion // soul PURPLE = perseverance, prolongation, "strings attached", sponaneous creation of power (KR) // pure power

They are getting more restrictive the further down you go. And this is my mantra. This is what fits all the ball play styles, all their descriptions, all soul modes, and all have a psychological, as well as a default magical explanation (denoted by "//"). Though, that's just my head canon, the ones denoted with //. Still, the rest fits the game perfectly.