Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-33883848-20190827163546

So i saw a LOT and LOT of people speculating over Undertale Chara's presence in Deltarune and how it will end up like "a player/Kris battle against Chara who wants to destroy the universe while Gaster is pulling the strings"because that fits the fandom's love for this kind of cringy and cliche fictions and battles,i mean just make a reseach on Youtube or Archive of our own with the keywords and you'ill guess what i mean but..Deltarune is NOT a fanfiction ,it's made by the same creator and is not a some kind of cringy and cancer fan work that features Chara who only seek death and the player and the protagonist who must destoy them otherwise Toby really lack of any imagination.Why there's almost ZERO chance for it to happen??

1.We don't have to complete a genocide ending to start Deltarune.Toby Fox himself said that any ending is valid as long as we complete any ending.So in this case,how could it be a post genocide sequel??How could it be the "next"world Chara was talking about??How could Chara "move on to the next world"if we never even did genocide run?Simple:they couldn't.And the game doesn't have to "punish"us for the run that we never did.

2.Perhaps Deltarune somehow affects the ending we got in Undertale,which would explain Chara's supposed presence in Deltarune but that's again NOT the case,Toby Fox himself said so:

"I will say that basically, what you're seeing here is not the world of UNDERTALE. UNDERTALE's world and ending are the same as however you left them. If everyone was happy in your ending, the people in the UNDERTALE world will still be happy. So, please don't worry about those characters, and that world. It will remain untouched."

Not only did Toby confirm that Delta rune did not affect Undertale's pacifist ending in any freaking way but that the characters and the world still remain untouched,so again if Deltarune does not affecf Undertale at all,how Chara from genocide run could be in Deltarune?That doesn't make ANY sence.

So if :

1.Genocide run isn't required to start deltarune.

2.If Deltarune doens't affect the end we got.

How would Chara's presence make any sence??It wouldn't

Now that rise two questions

1.What's the "next"world Chara is talking about in the genocide ending??

2.How could we explain Kris's behaviour at the really end of Deltarune?

Well,that's quiet easy:

1.The "next world"Chara is talking about is the abyss you get after destroying the world.After all,Chara NEVER leave the black screen which indicate that Chara never leave Undertale's world at all,thus never get "next world",neither does Frisk.Even if we assume that the "next world"is another Rpg and that they are taking to the player and that Chara can't leave Undertale unless the player does,Chara never appears in any other rpg even though they meant to symbolize the player's lust for power(nothing suggest this besides Chara's aknowldegment that Frisk can feel them when they increase their stats),Chara is still a character on their own right with their love for chocolate,their own speech patters,their hate of people who think they are above consequences,their hate of people who do the same run all ovef again just for the sake of curiosity,their own backstory.Where's is this Chara in all rpgs we play??Where's this Chara with their own personality and likes and dislikes ??Simply:they aren't there because Chara never leave Undertale,their "next world"is the abyss,the perfect world that fits their current emotional state and distance.The perfect world where Frisk and Chara could live on.

2.Kris is the one in control at the end of Deltarune.Sure the whole scene is a reference to souless pacifist end but just because it's a reference does that mean that exactly the same thing is happening??Many fictions make references to other works but that does not mean that the implications are the same.For example,the narrator in Undertale make a comment about a croissant and says that it look like a power bracelet,does that mean that it's the power bracelet from Legend of Zelda??Nope,it's just a reference.Same goes for Deltarune's ending,just because it's a reference to the souless pacifist end doesn't mean that exactly the same thing is happening.Heck,even rosy cheeks don't appear on Kris's face when they take over while they do appear on Frisk's face when Chara take over them,which also indicate that Chara is not involved here.Plus Chara's memories do not appear when Kris dies as it happen in Undertale,which is also a strong indication that Chara is not in Kris's body at all.

So it seems like Kris is in control here but what's their motivation??.There's four things to note before making any assumption:

A.At the start of the game,the red soul is clearly ours and as the voice notes,it need a vessel and another voice discard it as "no one can choose who they are in this world"and give us Kris instead.So it appears like Kris is a "default"vessel for our soul.

B.At the end of Deltarune when Kris throw the soul in the cage,we can still control it but not Kris anymore.Which is a direct reveal that we were controling this soul the whole time.

C.During the whole game,Kris appears to be posssesed by us.Many players note how Kris's actions that we take don't match their personality.For example,they are more talkative,more social.So it seems like we are possesing Kris and since we truly control the soul,it seems like we are controling Kris through this soul.

D.Kris clearly does NOT appreciate our control and the game make it pretty clear:

"You really didn’t want to throw it away.Throw it away anyway?[YES]Hands shaking you dropped the ball of junk on the ground.It broke into pieces.You felt bitter"-Drop the ball of junk

Thus we are forcing Kris to do stuff they really REALLY does not enjoy.So it's pretty clear that Kris does not enjoy our control AT ALL ,thus really likely want to ripe off our control. So if the soul is what allow us to control Kris,how would they ripe off of your control??Yes you guess it correctly:by tearing away our soul. Considering all of this,there's far more evidences that Kris is really in control at the end of the game ,that also make sence with the game and Toby Fox's own words and is much more Occam Razor than the theory that suggest that Chara is a kinda meta entity that can travel the multiverse and wants to destroy all worlds in existence just because they are evil and that Deltarune is a post genocide world or something despite Toby Fox saying otherwise.

PS:Of course i'am NOT saying that there's no Chara in Deltarune ,the game DOES suggest that Chara is present(and that they working with Gaster):https://doge-w-a-bloge.tumblr.com/post/180227048235/lunacria-in-the-beginning-of-deltarune-as-you but given Toby's own words,it's likely an AU version ,a counterpart of the original Chara just like many other characters. 