Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31981697-20170722123329/@comment-32182236-20170815011956

2)The evidence only says that the dog made a game, nothing more. It being Undertale specifically is mere speculation, a theory of its own. In fact, if the game really does take place in the future, then the evidence, when looked at more closely, actually goes AGAINST the game being Undertale-That was programmed in the present, not in the 22nd century. Besides, what's the mushroom-alien thing below the logo that you suggest is Undertale's? And no, it's not the flowers in the game art, the flowers are yellow.

3)But it DOES serve as proof that monsters are well, their enemy. That they hate the monsters!

3.3)Actually, this essence could not have carried their name. Otherwise, the name would still say "Asriel". But instead, it says Flowey. Flowey chose that name himself when he got the ability to SAVE-That's why you can't name Chara that, because as Flowey said it-"I already CHOSE that name!"

While the information of an LV can be within a SAVE file, the SAVE file does not DETERMINE your LV unless you LOAD it. The SAVE file actually says "LV0" before the first time you SAVE. Therefore, the LV1 at Flowey has nothing to do with the SAVE feature. You can gain LOVE without the need for a SAVE file. So even for those who can't SAVE, they still have their stats.

So, when did the system begin? It begins when you name the fallen human. So it really WAS Frisk calling out to Chara that awoke them! Knew it! Also, the humans could not have had the ability to SAVE and LOAD, ESPECIALLY before falling underground! Their traits weren't even determination, so they'd be outmatched by humans of determination. But then, why wasn't Flowey outmatched before we just so happened to FALL underground, and awaken Chara? The only explanation is that for some reason, the power to SAVE and LOAD does not apply on the Surface, at least not in the same way, or within the same system. When we fall Underground, we're the most determined Underground. So we can reset to when we first fell underground, as that's when we gained the ability. I still stand by the six humans before not being able to RESET, but if they somehow could, they, like Frisk, would jave only gotten that power after they fell-Explaning why RESETS wouldn't take them back to birth.

And we don't know what "Confused" the system. That's one unanswered complication-Yes, I'll be counting these. My explanation is simple-They gained the ability when they fell, and therefore, that is when the Reset takes you to.

And yet, Chara still crashes our game when they destroy the world, and we can't just reload to before they destroyed the world to bring it back. By the way, that's actually my explanation for Chara bringing the world back:They reloaded to before it was destroyed. Pretty much as simple as you can get there.

3.5)Chara brings everything back by reloading to before it was destroyed. Simple as that! The power to SAVE and LOAD truly is astonishing, is it not?

As for why they didn't destroy the world earlier? They weren't even a physical being yet-They were a mere phantom. As we continued to kill, we helped them gain more and more control, until eventually, after the death of Flowey, they regained their full power. Remember, when Chara killed Sans, that was only about 10 million damage. Asgore's was nearly 10 trillion, off by only one. The more we and Chara kill, the more power they gain. Until eventually.. They can destroy the entire world, by killing a flower with an LV of 9999.

Chara pretty much says that you think you are above consequences, assuming we wish to return to the world we destroyed. (Chara, you said move on to the next, what if I/Frisk was waiting for you to actually come with us to the next world? To actually do what you suggested? You said we'd do it together, right...?)

All we're returning to is an empty void. There is no world to return to, simply a void of nothingness that we and Chara inhabit. Don't think you can live in this place? Aw, don't worry, Chara decided to bring a little air for you so the two of you don't suffocate to death-That's what the howling wind is. But other than that, you really do have nothing.

3.6)They're just options for Frisk to choose from! Though, the capitalization on a few of them.. DO seem a bit off.. Though... if Frisk really is adding these options.. that that means that Frisk IS aware of the HUD after all, and uses them as their method of acting! Making the HUD undoubtably canon!! Which means we once again have Asgore destroying Mercy as evidence of meta-knowledge that he learned from Sans, Alphys, or Gaster. Therefore.. There is no longer evidence that the humans made it to Asgore!

3.7)Glyde HAD to have known about the narrator's presense to be hiding his stats from said narrator. Also, some of the stats that we recieve are different than the actual in-game stats, so we're also being fed false stats. For example, Toriel's ATK is almost certainly not 80, and neither is her DEF due to the damage we deal to her. And Asriel's ATK is about.. 8. Not infinity.

4.1)We're not far away from the station, we're actually quite close to it! And there's still too little snow in the Snowdin sentry station when compared the amount of snow on the rest of the buildings-The other buildings have at least TWICE the snow height.

4.2)No, "kill or be killed" means that if you don't kill, you'll be killed. Asriel refused to fight the humans, so he got killed. Trust has nothing to do with this-It's just that you kill them to gain LOVE, and therefore not be as weak. Underfell explores this concept in greater detail.. at least some variations of that AU do. It's sort of like surivial of the fittest.

4.6)Haven't found any plot holes yet. Here, I consider Undyne wanting this to be a fair fight actually referring to her teaching you the rules so you can actually use the spear she gave you. Like I said, the spear's pretty much useless if you don't know how to use it.

4.10)Yes, the intro scene undoubtably shows Chara falling underground. It's just that "201X" is on the monster calendar, which uses different years. Unless Undertale somehow takes place in the year 4000. And I'd place the war even earlier than year 1-Around the time of the Roman Empire, ~200BC. So that would be before even the Julian Calendar was invented. Know how Toby was tricking us with Frisk/Chara's name? He was probably making a similar plot twist here. "201X" has no real significance to the present.

4.11)Frisk IS getting visions and memories from Chara. In fact, there's even evidence of this outside of cutscenes! (Game Over, and the Waterfall Dump are examples of two more cutscenes.) One of the jokes told to Woshua is about a kid who slept in the soil. This is actually a parallel to Chara sleeping in the soil for centuries until you awaken them. There's a few more jokes that must be related specifically to Chara, though I don't recall where and when.. So let's start with the soil one.

Yes, we can MOVE. I'm asking why we can't FIGHT until we move the box. Even after Sans falls asleep. How does moving the box at all fit in with this?! And why does interacting with the border of the box wake Sans up at all? What even is the border of the box in this scenario?

We actually DO have a kind of "aether", it's the quantum fluctuations that occur in a vaccum. There is no such thing as TRUE "empty space". It just doesn't provide a field of absolute reference, as there is simply no such thing as shown by relativity. Either way, light does have a "medium" to travel through. It's called quantum foam.

Again, we don't have a reasonable explanation here. The evidence doesn't fit the theory, even if it's very vague evidence like one boss fight, or light waves being affected by gravity (This specific example being Einstien vs Newton, on what "gravity" is)

4.13)Frisk isn't "hiding" their SOUL, it is the HUD doing it for them. During Frisk's turn, they can choose what to do using the buttons, but cannot do so during the monsters' turn, as they are trapped inside the box, unable to reach the buttons. And once again, YES, the body will be damaged. But it is the SOUL that is the culmination of your being, therefore, they are not attacking YOU this way, but rather, a mere vessel. And HOW is Asgore forcing Frisk to stay? Why doesn't Undyne do this when your SOUL is red? (Btw, I figured out a possible explanation as to why you can't flee when you're GREEN. A green SOUL cannot move, it just has the spear. To flee, the SOUL must walk its way off the screen. But that would involve moving, which the SOUL cannot do-Therefore, it is incapable of fleeing.)

5)You have to remember though, that it is FRISK who chose the option to laugh. Why did they not make their own option that better fits what they do? Every time Frisk has selection an option, they have done what it says-That's how the HUD works, you choose the option you want to attempt, and see if luck is in your favor. Also, Chara didn't JUST assume you did what was written. Chara ADDED something to the narration, and THAT was an assumption they got wrong. You chose to LAUGH. Frisk did not choose "Cry". Wouldn't it just be simpler to say that Chara messed up on the part that Frisk didn't even select? That Frisk didn't cry, as that's not even what they chose? If the option you select does not even matter, then why doesn't Frisk just straight-up FIGHT Flowey without pressing "FIGHT"? Why doesn't Frisk just call for help at the START of each SOUL phase, instead of waiting for a completely useless button?

6)Except, as I proved in those images, Flowey already KNOWS that crossing the barrier is the happy ending-That's literally how they DEFINED the happy ending-One where everyone is satisfied and the barrier is broken. That's the ending Flowey'll give to you if you defeat him. Therefore, it's obvious that Asriel and Frisk could still stay together, and not something that a clever flower would just MISS. If we could SAVE Asriel this way, then why aren't we given the option to? Where's our "SAVE Asriel" ending?

Actually, he doesn't say even if everyone else gets a happy ending. He says even if it means killing you 1,000,000 times. Look at the images again.

And we never said that. He knows we just want an ending where everyone is satisfied and the barrier is broken, those are the only two conditions of the "happy ending". Asriel has no part in these conditions-And wouldn't Asriel ALSO be included on "everyone"?

Well, why can't we go back underground for a while to play with him? *wink* Asriel flat-out tells us to just go with the others. We're not asking him to go to the Surface, we're still underground trying to speak with Asriel, underground, and he asks us to just leave him.

He's not talking about Undertale in of itself, as I've already discussed why Undertale being a game isn't canon before (hint:dog paradox). But he can't be talking about playing with each other in the two best friends sense either. Perhaps he's talking about the part of the world where S/L/R is a thing that we can use. As I discussed in point 3.3, there are more humans with the trait of determination that could tie with or even overshadow our determination on the Surface, pretty much rendering our S/L/R abilities moot there.