Talk:Chara/@comment-36073590-20180704133156/@comment-33883848-20180727134620

"Actually, idolisation, where one sees other as authority (...No! I'd never doubt you...), is one of the fundamental method of manipulation."

1.Where its says that idolisation is a way to manipulate? I saw it nowhere so give me YOUR FREAKING sources. Here what Wikipedia says about manipulation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation(and you should really read the entire tread to compare those signs with Chara and Asriel's behaviour)

Its says that a successful Manipulation requires 1.Hide real intentions 2.Know which tactics are most effective to use

1.I already showed that their goal to free monsters was genuine 2.Given that Asriel only agreed to the plan because he doesn't wanted to doubt of Chara and given that Chara used persuasion(monsters's freedom) to convince him. Its seems like extremely unlikely that Chara knew what tactic would convince him if so they wouldn't use monsters's freedom as an argument at all.

Not only the definition it's self of manipulation doesn't fit but Chara confirmed that Asriel went along the plan because of his own will "our plan is failed rifht? ", they confirmed they  doesn't had any control over his decision but that he went along at his own will either they would call it "my plan"

Plus nothing indicate that his idolisation was a way for Chara to have authority over him. Even monster kid idolize Undyne but Undyne never manipulated them.So far its only implied that he idolised Chara because they were the only one who could understand him"because youre special, you are the only one who can understand me"He basically confirms why Chara is so special for him:because they were the only one who was be able to understand him, theres no other implied reasons so stop sending crap

"Asriel saying twice he strongly doesn't want do dissapoint Chara"

Yes because he used his will to not doubt of Chara as a way to reasure himself of the plan"Chara please wake up i don't like this plan anymorever doubt of you never 6 we just have to get 6". By the way its confirm he was never forced to follow the plan, he did it at his own will when Chara was dead. And nothing implies that he doesn't want to doubt of Chara to not disappoint Chara, after all before realizing that Chara can kill him as they are soulless he show no fear of them in the genocide where he think Frisk is Chara. "He doesn't even hesitate to mention their plan without fear or hesitation several times "let's finish what we started let's free everyone", "its was a way to fix our last fiasco". Which indicates that he doesn't followed the plan because he doesn't wanted to disappoint Chara, either he would show fear. And really dude he idolized Chara because he doesn't wanted to disappoint Chara or because he was manipulated? You aren't clear dude. Plus since Flowey says "what WE started"clearly indicate that he went along the plan at his own will

"and agreeing to do questionable things he doesn't want to do clearly shows he has been manipulated. Moreover, Asriel agreed to serious plan of killing six people not only against his will but also without having any good reason (except doubtful not dissapointing his friend, which isn't reason at all, only proof of manpiulation) since there is no pressure of time to do questionable things like commiting suicide or killing someone, and monsterkind actually isn't in any real danger suffering, except being trapped in Underground, which is merely inconvenient."

1.Just because he agreed to kill 6 persons to free the monsters doesn't mean he was manipulation. Its been confirmed and reconfirmed and confirmed again that he went along the plan ONLY because he doesn't wanted to doubt of Chara. Also the fact that Chara wanted to convince him with monsters's freedom is only persuasion and not manipulation as their goal was genuine 2.The fact that he doesn't wanted to doubt of Chara doesn't show that he doesn't wanted to disappoint Chara, only that he doesn't wanted to DOUBT of CHARA

"Rule of sympathy and affection - another way to manipulate by befriending the victim and making them to like you:"

Yes I know but how its related with the game at all?? Do you mean that YOU DARE to add additional background and your headcanon to endorces your theory? You're a pitiful person, when you don't have arguments then say nothing sherlock.There's n not evidences that  Chara didnt care about the dreemurs instead the family photo angled towards their bed, the had knited sweater, their closeness to Asgore as Flowey notes  indicate that they truly loved the dreemurs and deeply.

So STOP to use your headcanons as a proove because its only proove you're stupid. . . "Rule of reciprocity - the other way of manipulation: I died for you, now it is time for you to return a favor and do what I asked you for."

Thank you sherlock of " teaching me"but how its related to the game at all?

"Also, children are the easiest to manipulate."

Yeah and...?

And dont you know that its also hard even impossible for a kid to know master manipulative tactics?

"This leads to conclusion that Asriel has been convinced, manipulated and forced to do morally doubtful and questionable things all that time by Chara who had great influence over him."

Wow wow you are too fast here, how did you come to this conclusion?? Because so far I dont saw any normal argument

"Also thanks for providing argumants =]"

Oh yeah I did .

"You know you are exhibiting denialism from this point."

Oh really? "PS - Chara is evil as hell. "What is this?alsohttps://determinators.tumblr.com/post/159674581147/greetings-uh-so-ive-been-working-on-this

Really genocide C