Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31981697-20170722123329/@comment-32182236-20170801222939

-> (A) It's not just "Frisk had more power". It's also "Flowey no longer had the power at all because of this". Having just any arbitrary amount of determination doesn't automatically give you the ability to SAVE and LOAD. You literally need to have more DT than anybody else in the entire Underground.

-> (B) So the power itself can't be how Undyne understood. But it has to be something special about Frisk, related to determination... What if it was just that-Frisk had FAR more determination than anybody else Undyne EVER met?

-> (C) Or else Papyrus would've instantly recognized you as a human. And Sans said he never saw one. Fair point. Now we'll just have to look at wherever they were BEFORE arriving in Snowdin. Perhaps Sans saw a human in Waterfall, but not Papyrus, as someone not aware of the Guard, he wasn't searching for humans..

1)We know Asgore was old enough to have a son before Chara fell. Chara falling is quite early on the timeline-It would have happened around 1/8th of the way from the end of the war to Frisk arriving, since the gaps between humans falling would likely be around the same. Asgore was likely around during the war. Also, turtles live for 75 years, Gerson lived much longer than that. So monsters do in fact have some kind of longevity.

2)....I don't get your response whatsoever. I said I agreed with the fact that all humans had some kind of DT, but simply not ENOUGH to become the one who can SAVE and LOAD.. Still don't know what to call the one with that power-I guess the "player" of the "game"?

3)Heckle means to question someone to reveal weakness. The narrator assumes you said they were ugly. Doesn't fit the definition of "Heckle". The narrator's not always right. Once they say Monster Candy has a distinct, non-licorice flavor. But sometimes, it tastes like licorice. This is evidence the narrator isn't omniscient, not that they're not you. And I don't know what curtain you're speaking of, or even walking behind one.

Frisk isn't a zombie, Frisk is YOU. I already explained my case:Frisk is the player. Not "Frisk is controlled by the player, a separate entity", but that Frisk literally IS the player. Frisk calls out to Chara at the start of the game, and you call out to Chara. You're not controlling Frisk:You ARE Frisk. Big difference there. Though, if Chara is the narrator, that means they're with you the whole time.. But, where are they? How are they there? And do they too share the power to SAVE and LOAD? That might explain why Chara's name shows up in the name box, with Frisk's stats-It represents BOTH red SOULS at the same time.

->(3.1)She's not implying anything. She's just saying no human made it to Asgore and sucessfully defeated him! There was at least one human who made it past Undyne-The green one. And the humans could have made it to Asgore, with the items meaning nothing, but only in a world where LOADing does not exist. Then it'd be easy-Lose them somewhere! It's just in a world where they can SAVE and LOAD, they can easily just reload to before they lost the yellow human's items. So either they didn't make it to Asgore, which obviously doesn't make sense if they could SAVE and LOAD (Except maybe the orange human-They could have died to Doggo. The only way to survive his blue attacks is not to move, but orange is all about MOVING. Their mode could have forced them to keep moving, and die to Doggo.), or they DID, but lost their stuff, which doesn't make sense if they could SAVE and LOAD. Either way, we run into a big problem that can only be solved if we acknolwedge that these humans could NOT SAVE and LOAD.

4)Asgore's in no way weak. He's a very strong monster. It's just if you literally have Save-Scumming abilities, you WILL eventually take him down, even if he's much stronger than you. You learn his moves, as they're the same every attempt. You find a way to dodge every attack. And then, you take him down like Frisk.

Literally no monster other than Sans has the ability to dodge attacks from a human. That includes UNDYNE, who OBVIOUSLY wants to kill you, especially on a Genocide Playthrough. I'm sure someone who wants to KILL you would be smart enough to dodge. But she doesn't. Why is this? Well, it all goes down to battle mechanics. When a monster encounters a human, and engages battle, a FIGHT begins. In a FIGHT, when you attack succesfully, a line appears on the HUD, exactly where the monster is standing when it happens, before the monster instantly takes damage. We know that it's relative to the monster and not a fixed point because of Sans' death on the second attack. Monsters don't have time to dodge. Sans is aware of this mechanic, and can see that line, and move away. Note that he starts dodging when the line starts to appear. He can SEE the HUD. Monster VS Monster battles don't work the same way-Both monsters attack using magic, which have a chance of missing. If another human, say, Chara, attacked us, we probably wouldn't be able to dodge it.

->(D)Papyrus didn't instantly recognize you as a human. In fact, he saw a ROCK, and asked Sans if THAT was a human, before Sans telling him about you. Sans is the one who instantly recognizes you as a human, not Papyrus. Papyrus just asks if whatever unfamiliar thing he sees is a human. Sans saw a human before they moved to Snowdin, also likely before Papyrus knew about the Royal Guard (maybe before Papyrus even existed, there's no way to tell for sure) Also, Dogamy and Dogaressa also saw a human. This may have even been how the orange human died, with Doggo. If you have to NOT move to dodge the attack, and your SOUL mode forces you to keep moving.. You're gonna die. We have no evidence that they weren't around during the times the other humans fell. Papyrus wouldn't have thought a ROCK was a human if he was trained to recognize humans.

->(E)"Alphys told me humans were determined.. I see now what she meant by that!"-Undyne, during her (final) battle. (Actually DURING the battle, not before or after it. I forget what phase of the battle it was in, though.)

->(F)Occam's Razor applies when everything else about the theories are equal. With all else equal, the simplest explanation is usually the best. My theory actually explains what's going on, instead of hand-waving it. The simplest explanation for the universe would be to take everything and say "God did it", or "A wizard did it.", and leave it at that. But that's obviously not the best explanation to use-There's a reason why science exists. And no, that reason is not "Magic."

Fermat's discoveries helped lead to calculus. I don't see what Fermat has to do with any of this.

G-Any theory with contradictions is wrong in some way. There's a reason why we reject Newtonian physics even though it's MUCH simpler and easier to understand than Einstien physics. Because of a flaw in his physics involving light from the sun. Just ONE little flaw was enough to prove the theory was inaccurate, and we had a better theory to explain this- Einstien's. We have to do the same thing here.

Actually, it's simpler that Chara WAS evil-That's why they destroy the world at the end-The end! That's all, we have a very simple, one-dimensional villain that anybody could understand. They want power and just want to kill everybody. But, if we look in Asriel's room, we see a sweater, that if made by Chara, really starts to shatter that assumption. We have the plot hole on why Chara didn't just absorb Asriel's SOUL. Genocide Frisk LEADING Chara into being evil explains the evidence quite well, and why they say YOU destroyed the world. Of course we can also just say the sweater was made by Asriel and go RIGHT back to the "Chara is evil" theory.