Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-27907368-20160506131212/@comment-32182236-20180116011541

Alright, after all this time... I'm ready to take this one head-on. This might just be one of my biggest comments yet.

"A motif in Undertale is that the player (or Chara) pilots another character that has their own personality."

How? Why can't it just be Frisk acting on their own? Why can't the player and Frisk just be one and the same, just like how in nearly every other game, the player is the protagonist? Frisk just saying nothing and nodding at everything could be a reflection of how all we do is just keep pressing Z all the time, often not really reading the dialogue. They're not critical of Frisk as a puppet, but of US (also Frisk) for just being.. strange.

"Frisk is the protagonist that would befriend all monsters"

Or kill them all. All depends on how you play.

"and, according to Flowey, the one we should leave alone at the end of the game."

That message was to Chara, not us. That's why Chara's name is on the message.

"Here's where I get suspicious. I don't trust Flowey. Why is he appealing to my morality and trying to get me to leave everything alone?"

Yeah, I don't trust that flower either. When did we ever say we wanted to reset? Why can't we just go around happily on the Surface? Toby, I'd like an Overtale update to the game.

"Consider this: with the player gone, he'll regain control of the timeline."

Not if Frisk has anything to say about that.

"Now, we know that Frisk has been "awoken" in this route - their SOUL may retain the ability to "re-fuse" if we leave well enough alone. This means that Frisk has no ability to save the game. Unless they can access the main menu, their heart never shatters... which is reason to believe that they can't load from last save."

Or, you know, they could load like they normally do? When you close the game and reopen it? Still counts as a LOAD. The heart just never shatters because Frisk found a way to never have to die. Why shatter and be forced to restart when you can just heal yourself, and keep on fighting? With infinite HP, it'll be a lot easier to defeat, or, in this case, befriend foes. You won't have to worry about dodging every attack and having to start the whole battle over.

"So, we know of one solution that puts everyone out of their suffering – Genocide. The route in which Flowey is dead, and the timeline is gone."

What about the Neutral Route, except you kill Flowey?

All in all, I too consider True Pacifist as not the best ending, but it's not because of Flowey regaining control. It's closer to Flowey finding their way up to the Surface and killing everyone, or a rouge monster killing everyone later on. (I mean, it happened before.)

But I do not consider Genocide as a good ending. Just kill Flowey, cross the barrier, leave the monsters underground, and let everyone live without an evil flower killing everybody.

Also, Alphys isn't going to create more Floweys. We could just NOT befriend Alphys.

Also, Flowey was only created because of the essence of Asriel. Without the essence of life, one cannot create a sentient being. It'll be like all the failed flowers.