Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-32182236-20170602170443/@comment-32182236-20170603115304

Mabian wrote: You keep bringing up the same non sequitur. Asriel Dreemur proves the concept true. But Asriel comes after the tablets are written and the illustration is created. Asriel does not prove that the illustration is of an actual creature that existed. As for being lucky, it has happened before, and given that this is a world created by an author, and not actual history, the chances that a prophecy or conjecture could prove to be true is going to be significantly higher than in real life. Meanwhile, plenty of concepts are taken to be true for many years, even when based on conjecture, before being relegated to "myth." Most myths themselves are originally told as historical tales rather than myths.

Undertale's not a regular game though. Most games have too many plot holes to count, or barely has a plot at all, and sometimes STILL has a plot hole somewhere!

Other than adding monsters which almost certainly don't actually exist, Undertale is fairly realistic and consistent. The monster race is so close to human civilization in medieval times, I haven't spotted a single difference in how they are other than A-They clearly don't look (not act, but LOOK) like humans, B-They have magic, and C-Their technology is far more advanced. So, sort of like modern humans that have medieval society.

But, the war DID probably happen in medieval times, where myths about creatures were very popular.. (Based on the armor and weapons used within the war) So the part about it not being disregared as a myth, you do have a point there..

But that would be enough of a basis for fear: if a monster defeats one human and takes their soul, then they are more powerful than another human, and can start adding to their power at an incredible rate. Killing humans one at a time, before anybody else knows what's going on? Let's see.. With two humans, you're more powerful than two.. then..

You have a point!! The monster would be able to grow exponentially, until they kill everyone in the area!! It would only take 10 cycles of gaining power and killing to kill around 500 humans and be able to kill another 500 at once next! In fact, it renders my point below this one as invalid (as even a purely additive approach supports fearing monsters early), so I'm skipping to the next VALID one.

Why should we doubt those things? This isn't some actual race we are dealing with that conforms to basic psychological biases that we are aware of. They are a fictional race created by an author who has established a particular narrative and carefully crafted their statements and behaviors. The author makes a point of calling them peaceful, why not take the author at his word about what he intended? Because we already learned from how people have spoken about Asgore vs how Asgore actually is, ESPECIALLY Flowey, we thought he was just some sadistic evil villain, until we found out who Flowey REALLY was.. Also who the main character is-That's a BIG one.

"But we just assumed all of these things! When have we been lied to specifically? It's the fallen human! We were never told Flowey was evil! Toriel just said Asgore would kill you! Papyrus only said you'd see the barrier, which was.. true!"

Well, that is true, but what about the Sans fight? The game literally tells us that he is the EASIEST enemy. Seriously! Get to the Sans fight, and check him, that's what the game says! And we can all agree he is NOT the easiest enemy-You could even argue he's the HARDEST. Anyways, the point is, things are not how they seem. That's what we've been learning over and over from this game! So, there IS reason to doubt it. The first reason is all my other evidence, and the second reason, is because this might just be another case of "It's not how they seem.".. Not like how we originally believed it happened in Waterfall.

The English Civil War is a pretty good example of a conflict that was bubbling for many years and eventually erupted simply by beginning.

1925-1942.. Seventeen years.. And every action that happened during this period was a response to a previous one..

Well, looks like it could have gone this way.. But, that's what the rest of my points are for! Except they also urge monsters to stay away from the thing that, in your theory, precipitated the war. Which would mean they are acknowledging that they are at fault.

If they wanted to paint themselves in a positive light, to say that they were unjustly treated by the humans, then why not just get rid of the whole "fearing us" thing altogether? "The humans were evil and so decided to kill us."

Moreover, why bother with such a negative description of the monster with a human soul, if A) they are trying to paint themselves in a positive light, and B) they are so certain that no human will enter the Underground, thus rendering the "let's make sure to avoid doing this again" angle moot? When did they do this? They just said that thing would be horrible, not that they shouldn't do it "again"! In fact, it wouldn't make sense for them to do this, no matter WHICH one of our theories we believe! At the time these were written, monsters thought there was no entrances for humans to fall! They had no reason to say "Let's NOT take a human soul", when they literally thought it was impossible to meet a human anyway! I actually consider the "let's make sure to avoid doing this again" angle moot, and did the whole time-That was never my angle to begin with.

The monsters trying to make history look like "humans feared this, and attacked without us actually doing anything or creating this", still makes monsters look like the good guys, humans just don't look as evil. The whole point is they want this monster to look fake! If a "fake" monster is horrible, well, it's fake! "Humans assumed we'd turn evil like this, even though we never actually did so."

...Which means the drawing would probably try to parody how the humans portrayed monsters with a human soul.. It is supposed to be "strange" after all.. So only the concept is accurate, not the actual image.. Which brings back prophecy as a possibility for how they knew this..

As for why the fearing part was there, instead of "humans tried to kill us because they're evil"? Because, they don't want to end up raising the same question I was raising for a while-Why did they wait after centuries of peace to attack? If they attacked just because, there'd be a lot of question as to why we were peaceful with the monsters to begin with. There'd be a lot more monsters from the next generation questioning the history they were taught, and possibly creating conspiracy theories regarding the war.

Plus, of course, the question on why they decided to let monsters live finally, but on Mt. Ebott. Oh, hey, I thought they wanted to KILL us! What happened? They're trying to create a consistent history, without any contradictions or holes within it, while still making themselves look like the good guys, so the monsters will actually BELIEVE their tale instead of questioning the many errors that would be in there.