Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31536324-20190117214835/@comment-31536324-20190208040040

"'Aren't the basic definitions we know and use already abstract?''

Not if you think of them absolutely. Which you can most certainly do, no one said you can't."

True.

"And so the people who have done so quickly found out that they are too limiting, so they started coming up with their own traits, like the author of NightmareTale, with their brown soul of magnanimity.

And then there are people who just argue that UT humans don't display any other traits besides these 7, like uh... Camila Cuevas with her Glitchtale, in which every green person is kind, every yellow person is either a judge or works in the police department, et cetera.

Also, don't include your own text in the stuff you're quoting, it makes it more difficult and confusing to look the quotes up."

Fair enough.

"'What Chakra went with what trait? Just so we can have a simple thing to work around.''

Red: Root - basic psychological instincts, but also what you come back to after you surpass all 7 chakras; it's a cycle, in essence. Here it's better explained: https://malavikasuresh.wordpress.com/2012/09/22/chakras-7-year-development-life-cycles/ - This aligns with the cyclical nature of the red trait, that it's both nothing (0), as well as the sum of all the other traits (7). So basically, a modulo 7 cycle.

Orange: Sacrum - sexual drive, but also where all your passionate emotions reside, including bravery.

Yellow: Solar plexus - where your ambitions and ego reside. Basically, determination. According to my own take, determination is proactivity. Which this chakra certainly is. And I have accepted this, since it aligns with the theory that determination is yellow.

Green: heart - self explanatory.

Cyan: throat - relates to communication, but also to knowledge, ergo cold, rational, PATIENT logical thinking. Definitely go back to that link for this one.

Blue: third eye - wisdom. One of the keywords I've listed for integrity.

Purple (sometimes also displayed as golden): crown - where your spirituality resides. And spirituality, religiousness, can be characterized as "persistive". But mainly, it relates to my head canon of how purple magic works, that it amplifies attacks - Sans's single hit deals damage to you many times over, spread over a long period of time. Basically, an inexplicable spike in the complete amount of power existing in a given system. Similarly, spirituality can too give you such inexplicable source of mental power, to be so adamantly convinced of your own belief.

These explanations are definitely clunky, but I'm glad I've found a way to relate the traits in some neat way to the humans' personalities at all."

What about Justice?

"'Except for the Green Attacks, which are from another person to you, or from you to another person.''

Here I'm getting to some serious head canon territory, but I've found an explanation for that too. I've found a way to merge its ability to heal, as well as shield. Time travel.

To time travel, you have to shield the area in a "causal bubble" and then and only then can you comfortably rewind everything within it. And healing can just be understood as backwards damage taking."

Interesting.

"Furthermore, I have managed to relate every trait to some similar "cosmological concept", not just the green one, but that's not the current topic. I can definitely continue if it interests you though."

It does, but maybe you could split it between this threads topic and it, to keep it organized.

"'Undyne is doing so because she wants to help and protect the Monsters from threats''

Which threats?"

Any threats, speaking in general there.

"'Frisk didn't have REFUSE until the Asriel Scenario.''

Couldn't use it until Asriel. See, if they were to die, they'd die. So their soul always shatters to allow them to reload. But not here. If they lose during THIS battle, Asriel resets. The only remaining option for the soul is: refuse to die."

Exactly.

"Contrast this with the other kids, who just wanted to go home. They didn't want to give up, make their soul persist, but the option of letting their soul shatter wasn't ruled out, unlike in Frisk's case. So they kept on coming back, again and again, until they gave up and let their soul persist for real, probably because Asgore was too strong of an opponent (there is some serious evidence to back it up, I really think he is the strongest monster in the underground).

And there also is evidence to say that they could force their soul to persist instead of shattering and die for good, which is Chara, who I think did have the reload / reset ability too, due to their first words to Asriel (weird that they would tell him their name first, out of all things, huh?), and yet, managed to make their soul persist on their deathbed."

The SOULS are shown to be conscious, so it could be possible.

"Convoluted, but it works."

It does.

"'Not if you apply it to all humans with Red SOULS, and even then, with the Threshold Theory I've been applying.''

It's still weird, considering all humans have determination. If no other soul types had DT, I'd accept this much easier, because then it'd be way more obvious that there is a clear divide between red souls and the rest."

Again, all SOULS would have the traits and DT, it wouldn't make sense for one to exclusively have ome thing and others not. Just because the trait is one thing doesn't mean every other things don't exist.

"'The SOUL's power, it's accumulative force, what everything in it equals up to.''

In other words, DT + what... the traits? Well, that would certainly be a legitimate conclusion, albeit a rather pointless one, since the game doesn't actually demonstrate the power of these traits being manifested. Ergo, we may never know what this conclusion means. What does it mean for a trait to hold soul power. Unless you also say that they too can be extracted, just like DT. Which, although not mentioned, isn't prohibited either."

Exactly. Like I said, it only makes sense for everything to be extractable, rather than just one thing.

"So then, here's a new kind of question. If DT makes your being persist, what would these other traits do to you if you were to inject them?"

Hm, that's a tough one, but based on what we know of them, this is what I think:

Bravery - Makes you stronger.

Justice - Heightens your senses.

Kindness - Makes you more emotionally aware.

Patience - Makes you more level headed.

Integrity - Makes you more physically balanced.

Perseverance - Makes you more analytical.

"'he has no reason to do so''

But he at least has a reason to be shocked."

Not really. He knows Frisk still has control, and thus can still reset. So he wouldn't really even be shocked since he ready knows.

"Either from his transformation, or from us denying a resolution both to him, as well to us, or even from both. Besides, knowing we can just stop him like this, what exactly is driving his confidence in his own plan?"

The fact that there's no other ways things can go other than what we already know. Eventually things are going to lead back to that time, and the only way to get the best outcome possible is to go all the way through the fight and his plan - where he has a chance to win.

"Imo the plot in this regard makes much more sense if Frisk does NOT have the power to stop him in this case, apart from constantly refusing to die."

Like I said, I don't really use that argument anymore.

"'But the idea that Monsters are more versed in Magic compared to the spell using humans, is more or less a fact. More or less.''

I agree on that, but not on that the magicians were humans. Because if we assume that humans had no magic, ever, then they couldn't have been. I'm definitely wrong on this one, but it's a fun head canon to explore. And I'm doing just that with my own fanfic, actually."

Which is why I don't assume that when the game outright says the opposite was so. It is fun, but it's also important to remember what's fact and canon and what's opinion and non-canon.

What's the fic about?