Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-27136653-20180822085613

"We DO see indicators."

The one about there being many Floweys was a direct hit at the real world. Undertale was not a reflection of the real world after all.

"His children were DEAD, and while he did love his wife, there was no hope."

He still loved them, even wished he could see them again. He said this himself.

"As Gerson pointed out, he knew that if they reached the surface, there would bound to be another war. As Asgore pointed out, he just wanted everyone to have hope."

Which was before all of that. Afterwards, Asgore changed his mind. He didn't care about any war, all he wanted was to see the surface, nevermind the consequences. That's the kind of hope that there was inside him. If he lost hope, he would give up, don't you think? What exactly kept him going? Perhaps the hope of seeing the other monsters finally be happy?

"You sure about that?"

Yeah, he regretted killing those children, didn't he? And of course, he still has compassion for his own kind too.

"Who said Pacifist was a happy ending, or THE happy ending?"

Because there isn't a happier one, and accepting this is healthy. Toby meant this happy ending to play out like this. And aren't the monsters all shown happy at the end? I don't think there was any war afterwards.

"Less than half the monsters want to kill you. I went over that before. And that's the worst case scenario. Chances are, it's less than 10%. As for that last 10%? Yes, it is their fault. Well, most of the time, at least."

I guess we agree then, idk.

"Remember, I was saying that all the monsters that you can't spare right away want to fight."

Or the Froggits, who know a great deal about the game... or the Vegetoids, who apparently only want to stuff you with greens.

"Also, that's simply escaping the battle."

It's still a valid option.

"Many of them are aimed directly at you."

Maybe you're just that interesting to them? :)

"It has nothing to do with making them run."

As in, convinicing them to leave the battle, by any means.

"There's better ways then aiming bullets straight at their SOUL that do damage."

There's no way they can see it though (Papyrus being an exception of course). And as I said, maybe these bullets are harmless to monsters, as the book from the Snowdin library said.

"Even after they offer to do things peacefully, you can still refuse and keep the battle going."

That's not you turning hostile. If it were, the spare option would disappear at least for some monsters, those intelligent enough to get offended by this. But it never does.

"Froggit said fight, not leave. Fight means fight."

Which, as I said, is a translation to human terms. The bullets hurt us, so it may as well be a fight to us.

"Doesn't change the fact that he died before."

Nothing that happened in a different timeline ever matters, save for you giving your soul to Chara pretty much.

"It's just as easy to argue that Undertale is more of a game about choice than about sparing."

But as many gamers have noticed, it is quite intensively trying to constantly rail you into the pacifist route. Toby wants you to reach that ending, he does not consider the endings all equal, even if they're equal from a non-meta point of view. You'd be a fool to deny this. Or even better, if you consider those final Flowey speeches at the end of ever route canon, then even better, even the non-meta is trying to steer you into the pacifist ending.

"The book doesn't say that they're generally filled with these things."

I think it said precisely that.

"Monsters have proven that for themselves too, you know."

Can you bring any other argument for this besides Asgore himself? You know, to show that he simply wasn't an exception?

"Look, when you attack them, nothing changes."

Maybe it does. Maybe they change the flavor of their attacks from friendly to hostile at that moment. Except, you can't tell, as both harm your soul in your case.

"So, if it ISN'T time to use MERCY, that means the monster wants to fight."

Sure, I agree on that. But what does a fight mean? The fact that there's a mercy option does not make this an actual combat or something. Mercy has two options, one that lets you flee, and one that lets the other person flee. Of course, the other person may not want to, so you must first convince them to do so.

"Yet a reload still takes the same amount of time."

Because it's identical to a reset. You execute both from the same menu screen. And they're similar nonetheless, one moves you to one spot, another one moves you to a different spot. Same thing imo.

"As in, actual healing. No backward time stuff. Hm, why can't we say the same thing about monster food?"

Natural regeneration? Nah, that cannot be replicated artificially. You must really go to sleep, so that it can use that part of the brain for this task. It's a costly task. And a simple snack doesn't cut it. Unless we're talking about a sleeping pill or something.

"No, you don't. Try it! Fire your bullets! Next time you fight Mettaton after the color puzzle, aim at the very left of the board to miss him, and keep on firing:This will allow you to do it forever. No matter how long you do it, you will never run out."

You can also wait any amount of time in the underground and when you come out, it's always sunrise. I think the game might be neglecting time.

"Why can't the yellow part also simply be a spell that lets you control shooting bullets, centered around your SOUL?"

Because your cellphone is casting it. It makes more sense for there to be a method hidden inside it, rather than a magical reservoir. I don't think Alphys managed to do the latter.

"You said HP is the connection between the body and essence, though."

That's the case only with humans. No one else is connected like this.