Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31619784-20170328162322/@comment-33883848-20190610201803

@Burlyheart

" "In the end, Chara does end up a one-dimensional force who only wants power. That Chara is unfeeling, disconnected from their world, "

In the end Chara still a complex character like any character from undertale : they are interested where s the chocolate,they have a strong reaction when you check the family's photo,they view Undyne as a hero in the genocide run as you can see when you check the narration.Their main motive is to give the player the consequences for their actions,which are in tbe case of a genocide run the world's destruction"it was you who pushed everything to its edge,it was you who led the world to its destruction but you cannot accept it you think youre above consequences".

They even suggest you to take another run instead of a genocide run EVEN THOUGH we maximaze their stats in the genocide run.So no power is not their sole motive.

"and resurrected entirely by the evil intentions of the Player.""

WHERE THE FUCK IS IT SAID?Do you advice me to completely ignore the fact that their name is always present in the battle interface regardless the run aswell as their memories,stats and Flowey post pacifist dialogue ??To ignore the fact that the game NEVER imply that bad actions resurect anyone??Theres a reason for their name,memories and stats to always be present regardless the run but you act as if its completely meaningless despite the fact that theres NO other way to explain the presence of Chara s memories,stats and name in menu,battles interface,save points.Furthermore,Chara's line about being "confused"and uncertain about the reason of their revival untill you show them why,doenst make sence if Chara only came back to life in the genocide run since Chara's statement heavily imply that they were awakened before you started the monster's mash.

And how the fuck is that supposed to work within the established game's lore??Doenst the game says that only dt can bring people back to life??And wasnt chara's body along their essence(as they remember the coffin experience)buried at the start of the game,so how could they enter in Frisk's body only in the genocide run explain me and not when frisk fell on their grave??And if stats really awake chara then what about the neutral runs where you gained big amount of love??Why would they wake up only at the start of the genocide run(They says "Its me chara"when you check toriel's mirror,meaning that they are resurrected at this point)while your lv is only at 3?? Oh yeah,you have NO game's evidences neither valid arguments

"This is essentially a separate entity from Chara the First Human, an apparently troubled child who may have had a violent streak, but was still generally regarded as a good kid."

WTF????They have the SAME appearance,call themselves Chara ,have the memories of the first human(they remember that their plan failled and the stuff from new home "our clothes",My bed","his bed","the date i came here","still has that sweater)How is that supposed tp make sence for them to be a separate entity if they share the same name,the memories,the appearence with the first human??It rather appears like reincarnated Chara is the same Chara that died but souless(since Flowey expect that they would come back soulless and as Frisk couldnt absorb Chara's soul since humans cant absorb human souls,so they absorbed Chara's essence)

"Chara doesn't control Frisk in the Pacifist or Neutral runs because Chara's dead in those runs. "

NO WAY,As i said Chara s name and memories are ALWAYS present no matter the run,plus Flowey adress them at the end of the pacifist post credits"See you latter Chara".If he was indeed talking with the player,it would be much easier for Toby to make Flowey say nothing instead of Charas name and its ABSURD for Flowey to confuse us with Chaar,this shows that Flowey is indeed talking with Chara at the end of the pacifist run and so that Chara is awake in the pacifist run aswell.

But i guess you will keep ignore all facts,twisting them all to make them fit with your interpretation despite not providing any GAME'S evidences to endorces your point yourself.

"Chara's essense, if you will, is resurrected during the Genocide run and is then able to exert influence over Frisk."

Oh really because you say so??And actually the player still in control of Frisk's body,the player is the one who push everything to its edge and led the world to its destruction.

"When I say Chara is a Player, I don't really mean it literally."

THEN DONT CALL CHARA THE PLAYER ,IS THAT EASY

" I mean that Chara has access to the same abilities you have as a Player, including the obvious SAVE, LOAD, etc. but also the ability to edit or delete game files, close the game window, etc. Hopefully this makes more sense!"

No it still doesnt make any sence:just because Chara share the save load power with Frisk doenst mean that they are the player or metaphor of the player

"Yes, you are correct here. I realized my."

"I figure at this point, it's not really Chara, but a representation of that "kill everything, get strong" mindset. But this Chara explicitly states they were resurrected by you (the player) and your power. "

Yes by Frisk's power you know Determination,something that's explicitly refered to as power by Alphys.In the context Chara is indeed talking about Frisks dt and soul"your power awakened awakened me from death."my human soul","my determination"wasnt mine but yours",right after mentioning that Frisks power awakened them from death they are immediately focused on their soul and dt,heavily suggesting that they were talking about Frisks soul and dt.

And yeah nothing suggest that Chara represent the"kill all for power"mindset.If so then they wouldnt suggest you another run in the second genocide run regardless their motives since you reach the "absolute"in the genocide run and just because Chara wants to gain power doenst mean that they represent this mindset ,at least outside the first genocide run.

'The Fallen Human's name is present in the stats, yes, and honestly I have no idea why that is. There's the obvious "it's supposed to be a surprise" answer, I suppose. And of course it makes sense that the name you choose is the name of the file. Regardless, this has nothing to do with how alive/dead Chara is in any given run."

Wow ,i never saw a person so much in denial....Listen if Chara's name and memories are present in every run then that could only mean one thing:they are indeed always present since there's no other reason for Frisk to bear Chara's memories ,there's no other reason for their name to be always present in all runs.

"Chara wouldn't want you to do a second Genocide Run/wouldn't understand why you'd want to do a second Genocide Run because they just want it destroyed."

Euh what??Are you talking about the first genocide run or what??If so then yes,they want to keep it destroyed but will give you the opportunity to recreate in exchange of Frisks soul

"They give you the chance to True Reset, but going to all that trouble just to do the exact same things and get the exact same ending would be weird, especially to someone who doesn't really "feel" anymore."

So no they arent only interested by power,if so they would encourage you to do the same run or would do nothing since they are already all powerful.Whatever Chara's motives are in the souless pacifist run(remark that theres no evidences that any human is killed as many fans suggest only Frisk's friends),they no longer wants to reach "the absolute"of power since the genocide run is the single run that maximaze your stats

"Also I don't believe that Chara is speaking to Frisk at the end of the Genocide Route"

"Oh no ,a ~12 fictional character stole my soul and despite not being present in the game,what should i do ?"-_-

"Frisk's sprite isn't present,"

Ya know like ALL THE TIME they fight,speak to Flowey in neutral ends,dates etc.......That's NORMAl and doenst prove that Frisk isnt present

"and the way that Chara is speaking definitely feels directed at you, the player, and not Frisk the character."

Oh and how??The way they say that ""our""dt awakened them from death or when they ask ""our""soul?The way they says that we brough them back to life while they came back in Frisks body and not in "our body"?

" I'm also not convinced that Chara and Frisk are sharing the same stats, "

I dont care whatever you are convinced or not,every time Frisk's increase their stats they also increase Chara's ones as proven by the fact that Charas name is present in the stats.

"but I also don't think it'd make much difference if they did."

"Together we eradicate the enemy and became strong"

Love make them more "stronger",more "emotionally distanced"as love IS supposed to make you emotionally distant.Both Chara and Frisk became "strong"together when they increase their stats,meaning that they share the same stats.

". I mean that, though they're literally in the game, they have the awareness that it's a game. Meta knowledge"

Outside the narration(which is implied to be Chara),Chara never shows any awareness that they are in the game.Even though they did,many characters are aware of meta:Flowey mention the "sickos"from another world who prefer to watch instead of doing the genocide run themselves and bet that something like this watching,Alphys believe that there someone out there always watching her,many characters can interact with the hud(Papyrus ,Aaron,Tsundereplan,Nastablook can intreact with the checks),tuto froggits mention the keyboard's buttons and Mettaton and Papyrus mention the keyboard,the date on your computer prompts river person to say "somewhere its x"depending on the date on your computer.

"This makes them, in a way, outside the game - like D&D players at the table, both in the game as characters and outside of it as players."

With this logic,most of the undertales characters are "outside the game."since they are aware of the meta

.

"I've done my best to provide evidence that comes from the game, "

I would say that you rather ignored most of them.You ignored Flowey speech adressed to Chara in post credits scene,the presence of Chara's memories in all runs,the games lore and Chara's motives in the genocide run .But yeah that not a such a big deal if you dont stay in denial.

If you really want to accurately understand Chara and their motives i suggest you to read this amazing post:https://determinators.tumblr.com/post/159674581147/greetings-uh-so-ive-been-working-on-this.Its mostly based on narrator chara theory but it bring many other interesting points and fully analyze Chara by only taking into consideration the game itself

PS:Sorry if iam salty in this post but iam just TIRED AS HELL of this theory as its EVERYWHERE,in EVERY FORUM that discuss Chara,EVERY THEORY VIDEO that discuss Chara despite it obvious lack of evidences and counter arguments