Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31536324-20190117214835/@comment-31536324-20190217142507

"'Toby Fox also stated that there WILL be another game set in Undertale's world:It was the final stretch goal of his kickstarter.''

Maybe we misinterpreted what he meant by "Undertale's world" (as in, the general canon UT multiverse, as opposed to this timeline & this reality). Then again, he set himself this massive goal, that he himself said would take like 7 years to complete. So either he massively disappointed the kickstarter backers, or he delivered. I like to believe that he delivered. And what do we know, maybe he did begin to work on it only after releasing Undertale? Maybe that 2012 sample thingy was just the beginning of him designing the story and music (he was composing songs long before he began working on Undertale, so this date is probably not related to the actual coding he did for Deltarune). He said after all that he first got the inspiration from a bunch of media, then transferred some of it over to Undertale, and then finally composed the thing he wanted to make in the first place from the leftovers."

In any case, we sinply don't know, and won't until he comes clean.

"'I suppose that means you argue that Toby ISN'T skillful?''

Nah, just lazy. And also definitely not focused on what we're focused over here."

Considering he gave focus to Mad Dummy of all characters and created an entirely new set of character sprites, battle mechanics, and little alterations to the Pacifist Ending in the Switch Version that were never in any other version. I think it's safe to say that he's not as lazy as you're inmplying.

"'That's exactly what we're trying to do. That's what the truth is. I'm looking for canon, not a bunch of headcanons. Theories rely on truth, not a fantasy.''

The truth is the one that factors Toby into the equation."

No it's not. That's you assuming things about a real life person in ordsr to justify your viewpoints.

"'The former is what you do if you're actually trying to solve the work in question.''

Doesn't exactly look to me like you're doing that. You're doing exactly what I'm doing. You're just being more rigid about it. My approach is actually still partially rooted in assumptions about Toby. It's how I'm preventing myself from steering too far away from what could be the potential canon. An example of a (good!) story that steered too far is once again Golden Quiche. It took everything, and gave it a "canon world" explanation. Like, Frisk actually physically existing in that menu screen. In comparison, I drew a boundary. The same that you used: if it seems silly and is not referenced, it should probably be disregarded. So I have disregarded the menu. And then also added one more boundary, a such that allowed me to keep my sanity: the world is fluid. By this, I mean that all instances where the world appears "locked" into some small constrained system, such as battles, I completely disregarded."

Except turns and the battle system ARE CANON TO THE WORLD, distegarding either automatically invalidates the theory since you're supposed to work with the canon in your theories.

"'By "your own logic", you did mean whatever kind of logic works, right? Like looking for possible references and building upon them, expanding the world as much as we can?''

If you can explain it, it's good. And using Toby as an argument counts as bonus points in this instance, because you're trying to nail the "feeling."

Feeling has no point or place in a theory. We're trying to explain why things work the way they do, not why they make us feel what we do.

"'remember how I logically showed that if DT is the seventh trait, the six other traits HAVE to be physical''

Yes, that is logical. I mean, even kinda obvious. But that wasn't my point back then. I was talking about how DT is not the 7th trait. But if I had believed it were, I would have believed this too."

Except simce that's explicitly what's stated, then why are you so against it?

"On an unrelated note, do you ever struggle with third conditional sentences?"

Don't know what those are.

''2-Frisk must demonstrate this trait throughout ALL the routes. (Else they'd have a different SOUL trait in the route in question.)''

I actually didn't address that yet, so here I go:

One way to explain it is through the absence of soul modes, which shows that they're nothing but "themselves" - stripped of all the colorful fancy. But then that would imply that the other children were constantly under the influence of their respective modes. Still, it would apply only in battles, so they at least would be able to travel.

The other way is to realize that we're influencing them. In other words, they're willing to do anything they're physically allowed and capable of doing, if you assume the "death of the player." So they're capable of displaying all 6 traits. But then, that would mean the other children were only capable of expressing one and only one trait. I guess this is where the trait mixing head canon comes into play."

Given that there are two red flags with two stated criteria for the Red Trait (combining the other 6 traits and having an unwavering firmness of purpose), and the others have no such things about them. I take it combining all the other traits to make one of the other traits is not a necessarily needed thing for the others. I imagine that since having and expressing the others is needed for a Red SOUL, expressing the others is possible for those with one of the other traits, despite the same not being said for them.

"And personally, I steer towards the battle style head canon: anything goes for them, be it calculation, bravery, elegance, persistence, defense, or accuracy. In other words, they're very open to experience and don't really display anything notable in this regard (they possess these six in more or less the same quantities - they display no extremes), so their personality may seem kinda bland. Maybe they don't even have any hobbies, if we assume the furthest extreme. Just... a total lack of anything sharp and distinguishable. That's how I like to think about them and red souls in general."

I can see that.

"'You see? I present logical arguments, and make a testable claim. You just guess stuff about Toby instead. That would be akin to me trying to figure out how the universe works by trying to find out how a god would have made it.''

Well, we KNOW that Toby made this world in this instance, unlike with our reality and God, so...?"

Even then, it just doesn't work

"'Okay, if I understand correctly, what I need to do is create a unified rule system, explaining all four of Mad Dummy's encounter dialogue, plus Glad Dummy?''

How do monster bodies work, how do ghost bodies, ghost-possessed vessels and fused ghost vessels work, and how all of that does or does not explain MD's cousin, as well as all other monsters, as well as humans. Also don't forget about human food, monster food, Chara saying you're hurt during Mettaton's show, astronaut food and the reapplied bandage healing you, etc. It's a mess."

Only the majority of the top sentence has any real relevance.

Monster Bodies - Made up of Magic and Dust, fade to dust upon death.

Ghost Monster Bodies - Can control tangibility and visibility, fade to dust upon death, can possess inanimate objects.

Ghost Possessed and Fused Vessels - GM becomes intangible, overshadows object, object becomes their body - emotions determine how in-tune you ate with your host body. As shown by Mad Mew Mew.