Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-32182236-20180104155430/@comment-32182236-20180910181558

"Not at all.  Also Hi again!"

Exactly, you haven't, Frisk. You should have used MERCY when you still had the chance. Just because Chara destroyed the world doesn't make all the kills you did before then suddenly not your fault.

"None of this is Chara's fault or doing."

Some of it is, some of it isn't. Both Frisk (which is the player), and Chara are evil, but Chara is ONLY evil during the game-They weren't like this in their backstory. The main things that changed them were Asriel betraying them and the fact that they are now SOULless.

"Chara did not form any conclusions right away based on Asriel and didn't recommend killing anyone."

..They did before they died, killing the humans. Pretty sure Asriel getting them killed isn't going to change their mind-They're furious at Asriel for getting the both of them killed when they could have freed monsterkind instead.

"No it's you who makes Chara decide wether or not Asriel should be forgiven, and they decide at the end of either run."

There's really no hints that they EVER forgive Asriel, even on a Pacifist Run.

"When you kill, you show Chara that Asriel's mercy was unjustified, and thus they come to the conclusion it was a betrayal and kill him."

..They reached that conclusion the moment they died.

"When you spare you show Chara Asriel was right, that no matter what, Mercy deserves a chance, and they help save Asriel by projecting that memory during the hyperdeath fight and helping you SAVE."

Except he's not SAVEd. He turns right back to Flowey, and rather quickly as well.

"Chara is completely neutral in the beginning. No no."

..Not when Asriel's involved.

"WHO's the one who pressed that FIGHT button? Hmm? There is no "push it! push that button" you decided on your own."

There is "Let's finish the job" (Demo), "Froggit attacked" (first Froggit, unlike every Froggit afterwards), etc. Yes, we pressed the FIGHT button, and killing the monsters was our doing. And yes, that makes us evil by the game's standards. But there's hints that Chara WANTED this to happen. They didn't MAKE it happen, that dishonorary "award" goes to Frisk.

"You just teach Chara(and Frisk) to kill by raising their LV. What does that save file say when you start?"

It says Chara, of course, because they had the SAVE file before we did. Also, we don't teach Frisk to kill, we ARE Frisk. And killing, of course.

"CHARA LV 1, then you kill and raise it. Chara was pretty chill (as Temmie said in a tweet) before, and is nice in Pacifist."

..Link to the tweet, please? ...Also, Toby said in a tweet that tweets aren't canon, so...

"But in geneocide well, as Sans says the higher the LV the more you distance yourself from people, and the more willing you are to slaughter the innocent, even your family or best friend."

True:That's why the narration text when we hit the Mad Dummy shows our punch as more aggressive depending on our LV, and how we feel about it as well.

"Chara actually has no idea what *you're* trying to prove as they watch and learn from us like the kid they are, they even admit as much in their speech about how you taught them how to act.

(Yes you cut that off in the wrong place they didn't say they were brought back to life because of us, because of our guidance, no they say they were back to life  because of our determination, and that the reason they think like they do now in genocide is because of us.)"

You're the one that looked at it the wrong way.

"Thank you. Your power awakened me from death. My "human soul"... My "determination"... They were not mine, but YOURS."

We brought Chara back, and they're SOULless, the SOUL they did feel was in fact our SOUL.

"At first, I was so confused. Our plan had failed, hadn't it? Why was I brought back to life? ... You. With your guidance."

Chara's telling a story. First they ask a question, then they answered that question. You. You're the one who brought them back. Also, note the period there. It's not a comma, it's a period. Either way, they're not supposed to leave you at a cliffhanger like that. They asked the question they ask, then explained how they found out their answer. Why were they brought back? You, of course!

"You. With your guidance. I realized the purpose of my reincarnation. Power."

See? Doesn't grammatically make sense-If this was the correct interpretation, that second period should be a comma. But in the game, it's a period. It doesn't logically make sense either-Why did Chara say "you" in the first place? If "why" meant "for what purpose", then "you" isn't really a good answer.

"They think it's power, and even draw up a plan for both of you to continue gaining it, thinking you're their true friend "right where it belongs" as you teach Chara that Mercy, what Asriel used back in the day, is wrong and he just got them both killed, you're the better soul partner. (Since they and Frisk share the same soul.) (opposite message given to them in Pacifist.)"

They DO think it's power-That much is true. And yes, that means they devise a plan to gain power. The only problem is your assumption that we somehow taught them that. By the way... We're a human. Why should they trust us? Seriously, say that you were killed by humans, so you hate humanity now, you still like the monsters, because you were somehow convinced Asriel didn't literally just betray you right now when you flat-out made a plan to kill the humans and he went against you, then you see a genocidal human killing all of your friends. Don't you think, maybe, you would, oh, I dunno, hate that human? Shouldn't that just prove you right about humans, Chara? Shouldn't Frisk be just another enemy that deserves to die, for another chance to free all of monsterkind?

"But if you say no they're confused(and betrayed)."

Chara, I wanted to kill the monsters, not the humans. Now nobody can wipe out humanity anymore. (hypothetical response)

"Eventually Chara just says fuck it, it's MY save file(since when were YOU the one in control?!) "CHARA(or whatever name you gave them)" and just kicks you by erasing it."

It is pointless at this point anyway, all that's left are humans.. Let's just completely forget about Alphys, Grillby, Catty and Bratty, Nice Cream Guy, they're all worthless. (..Yeah, things aren't looking too well for Chara over here. And yes, it being pointless seems to be their motivation:"Let us destroy this pointless world, and move onto the next"-Chara)

"And then when you come back to the world YOU destroyed, procedees to kinkshame you about your killing in the void."

Chara, I wanted to move onto the next world with you! You made a deal-We destroy the world, we move onto the next one! Chara, just take me there with you already! Destroying just one world isn't good enough for me. *evil laugh*

"But, like Flowey, being a soulless being raised from the dead by DT(specifically, yours.) they feel empty inside and decide they'll reset their save file for you in exchange for a soul again.   (Frisks Soul of course, the True murderer isn't even in that plane of existance, whoops just sold an 8-year old's soul! ).

And still kinkshaming you, they'll undo your happy ending from now on because you don't get one you monster."

Oh look, they're killing all of my friends! Look, I reformed, I changed for once, I actually did the right thing, you even SAID to take another path, and now you just kill everyone. Do you want me to be a pacifist or not, Chara? Because if everyone dies anyway, what's the point anymore?

"(Unless you're a dirty hacker, shame more on that later.)"

You never elaborate on that.

"Or if you do more genocides, they tell you about how you taught them what it means to kill (to become strong) but they admit they continue to believe this but they now know you do not believe this thing yourself, you have a "perverted" sentimentality to this world that causes you to sadistically create and destroy it over and over and over."

I'm waiting for you to do as you said you would do the FIRST time I destroyed the world. How many times will it take before you take me to the next world with you?

"And Chara cannot understand the feelings in your soul (kind of like how Flowey, even with souls, could not feel feelings regardless.)  And, disgusted, want you to do a pacifist this time after they reset the file."

Which turns out to be a total scam because they kill everyone anyway. So I'm not allowed to kill anymore, but you can still kill everyone just fine? #DoubleStandards

"Saying no, they continue to kinkshame you and put the guilt on you by saying that all this was "YOUR CHOICE LONG AGO!""

Well sorry, if you're not going to take me to the next world, I'm not going to destroy this one anymore. We either go with our plan of destroying the multiverse or we don't. If you're not with me, then you are my enemy, Chara. Which is it? (Yes, only a Sith deals in absolutes. ...But look, we've already established that the player of genocide is the villain. So I'll be playing that role if I'm Genocide Frisk.)

"The above. That is what I think. YOU are the one that decides everyone's fate.  Poor Chara doesn't deserve ANY of the blame.  They were not the greatest person in life but they didn't plan any genocides or anything.  "Six, we just have to get six".  That was their compromise to Asriel, I believe. Sure, maybe Chara would gladly kill them all knowing they had a hatred of Humans especially to save their new friends, but knowing how uncomfortable he was they compromised. (They do that with us too, with the soul.)"

Haha, no, they don't compromise with us. They say they do, but as soon as we complete a Pacifist run, they kill everyone all over again! If I'm supposed to forgive Asgore for killing six humans, and Asriel for ruining the perfect plan of freedom, and they never tried to undo it, then why not for me, if I changed? None of the killing happened anymore, it's gone! Everyone's happy! Why are you tearing it all away again, Chara?

"Just let them go. Let Frisk be happy."-Flowey

Chara, please.

Chara:NOPE! *kills everyone*

"Chara is a metaphor for the player character "The Demon that comes when people call it's name (name)" line is a reference to naming your character in an RPG.  A normal RPG where that Characters goes on to killl and steal but not on their own, thanks to YOU."

No, it's only a reference to the fact that you called their name, and you named the fallen human, rather than your own character, Frisk.

"It is YOU who makes the player a demon."

I AM the player.

"It is you who made Chara a demon."

They were like that ever since they awoke SOULless. But hey, nobody said there can't be two of them, right? =]

"This was the RPG where no one had to die! But you decided to play it like normal!"

Hey, there's a war going on between the humans and the monsters, all who came never returned, so that means the monsters are the enemy, and I, as the Hero of the humans, must eradicate all of the monsters, to forever save humanity! I killed the ENEMY! The VILLAIN! You even said it yourself:Together, we eradicated the ENEMY!! I'm the HERO!

(Well, that does fit your typical RPG... Yes, that mindset is totally wrong. But we're talking Genocide right now, might as well use that mindset when trying to respond to Chara.)

"But there are concequences, as Chara said when they realized how you really think and rebelled(think about THAT the next time you listen to "Megalo STRIKE BACK"), that you think you can get away with destroying this world and just "having it back" whenever you feel like."

1-Megalo Strike Back does not exist in Undertale. Just become some fans use that song for Chara does not make that related to Chara. Chara's theme is Once Upon a Time.

"You think you are above concequences."

I am, though. I have the power of SAVE, Chara! Did you forget? Here, I'll bring things back right now! Just press the- ...Wait, why isn't it working? Why can't I LOAD my file anymore? Chara, what did you do?! (Frisk's probably getting a little worried right now..)

"All in all, Chara was raised by a pretty good parent(Toriel was evidently their favorite as they copy her like how Asriel copies Asgore.). And Chara is the hero we need not the one we deserve.  But this story has a sad ending if you decide to hack into the game and undo this."

It really doesn't. Everything works out just fine! ...Then again, hacking the game isn't even canon, so we might as well just take the main message and say there's no way out of this according to the game's story. Hacking the game to undo this is not canon, just like the Minus World from Super Mario Bros is not canon.

"In the end your power as the Extra-Dimension overlord "Player" is no match for even the most powerful being in Undertale, the one with the SAVE file..."

Ha, all of your memories are GONE, Chara, and I have my SOUL back! *maniacal laughter*

"You: "Mwahahahahahahahahahahahah...."

No that's not you.

You cannot accept it. Chara says this exact thing."

I think you're missing someone.

Me and Chara:"Muahahahaha!!"

Also, pretty sure you qualify as well, Frisk of another world. ...Unless you never did that run, in which case, your "friend" Asriel doesn't approve of you.

"At least we're better than those sickos that stand around and WATCH it happen... Those pathetic people that want to see it, but are too weak to do it themselves."-Flowey

Is he really your friend? =]

"In the end, Toby predicted this with that line."

What, the extreme version of this, that argues Frisk did literally ZERO of the killing, and it was ALL Chara? Yeah, that most definitely was predicted. I myself argued against THAT point of view at the end of my post.

"That the Fandom would try to shirk the blame."

And so they did.

"We blame Chara."

Seemed like the best scapegoat:They literally destroy the world-If they're already evil, might as well just give the blame for what we did onto them. ...But that's not the right thing to do. ...You're responsible for this too, Frisk. Chara may have destroyed the world, but you pushed everything to its edge.

"Poor poor Chara. When it's OUR fault."

No, we both share the blame. And it's not poor, poor Chara, they're definitely evil. Though I don't approve of giving up your half of the blame and giving it to Chara too.

"Oh my god I just got that. We blame the Character. “My character’s such a dick.” When it is our fault. Man Toby, beautiful game spilling some moral truths about video games, Role-Playing games specifically."

Our character is Frisk, not Chara.

"I wonder how this ties into Chara's backstory though, to continue this allogory of Toby's maybe Chara was often manipulated and controlled by other people and that's why they hate Humans."

Why Chara specifically? I've already implied what I thought the reason was-Them attacking when it's not justified. Out of nothing but an assumption.