Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31252171-20171008174544/@comment-32182236-20180221125131

[Then take a closer look at the fight against Asriel. In the first phase, Frisk uses Hopes and Dreams to resist Asriel. The song ends when Asriel uses his omega form and binds Frisk. At this moment, Frisk has lost his/her hope of victory because his/her opponent is far too powerful. Hopes and Dreams does not start again until Frisk finds new hope and begins to free the souls. So why should the song be the theme of Asriel when it is clearly linked to Frisk?]

Because it contains Flowey and Chara lietmotifs. Characters have their own special lietmotifs, and that decides what their themes are. Also, when Asriel comes back, that isn’t Hopes and Dreams. It’s actually “SAVE the World”. Though, it does contain the same lietmotifs as “Hopes and Dreams”, making it presumably the same lietmotif theme, it’s closer to “Last Goodbye” then actually being “Hopes and Dreams”. The time it ends like you said is “Burn in Despair”.. Which is its own theme. Why aren’t we getting something like the theme when Undyne dies in Neutral, if it’s our theme playing, with the roles being swapped? (That theme’s actually the same as “An Ending”-It just starts at a different part. It’s her last moments.. And that’s how the situation is here as well. Point out that Frisk comes back to life? Well, then we still have a problem-If that’s what determines the theme, why don’t we hear something similar to “But the Earth Refused to Die”?)

Also, it’s not 3 in one fight. “His Theme” happens AFTER the fight, so it counts as Asriel’s overworld theme.

[That Hopes and Dreams contains several leitmotifs of other songs is not surprising. Toby did that with a lot of songs in Undertale. The Themesong of Undertale (Once Upon a Time) is included almost everywhere. And no idea why Once Upon a Time should be Charas theme. The song plays only in the intro and Chara is not in there. Frisk, however, does. So, if any, it would have to be Frisks theme.]

Wow. You’re on the wiki, and not aware of the biggest reveal in the game. The fallen child in the intro is Chara, not Frisk. I thought that was common knowledge here. Those memories that save Asriel? They match the intro perfectly. (There’s a lack of flowers in the into, and fallen child has only one stripe. This is very clearly Chara. Besides, we’re told to name the fallen child from the intro, and we name Chara. That’s confirmation!!) So actually, the intro is about Chara. NOT Frisk. This is just further evidence of the theme belonging to Chara. Come on, what else would Chara’s theme be? Star? A theme not even in the game, that was supposed to play during a Madjick battle after the orbs turn into hearts? Come on.

“When the story of Asriel and Chara is told, the song Undertale plays, which is almost identical to Once Upon a Time. But even then Undertale is not Chara's theme. Chara has this very creepy song at the end of the Genocide Run and is also often associated with Megalo Strike Back.”

As I said, characters can have two themes. In the case of Chara though, it’s actually similar to Flowey and Asriel. Once Upon a Time is the theme of pre-death Chara (technically, before Asriel died with Chara, not before Chara died the first time and Asriel absorbed the SOUL of Chara) I mean, when Asriel died, Chara’s SOUL shattered. So when Chara reawoke, they were SOULless, just like Flowey. And since Flowey (SOULless Asriel) and Asriel (with a SOUL) have different themes, then Chara and SOULless Chara should have different themes too. An they do!

First off, Undertale is specifically Once Upon a time, with His Theme/Memory playing in the background. We know the His Theme portion is Asriel, which is half the story.. The other half of the story is Chara, and the other half of the song is Once Upon a Time..

Undertale=Asriel+Chara

Undertale=His Theme+Once Upon a Time

His Theme+Once Upon a Time=Asriel+Chara (substitution)

Asriel=His Theme

Asriel+Once Upon a Time=Asriel+Chara (substitution)

Once Upon a Time=Chara (subtract Asriel from both)

“Yes, the fight of Sans is similar to that of Undying and NEO, but as you rightly said, Megalovania is not a hero theme like the other two. Because it's not Sans theme, it's genocide Frisks theme.”

Nope. Undying isn’t “a” hero theme. It’s THE hero theme. Power of NEO contains exactly the same “hero” lietmotif. They’re both the SAME theme. As a result, it can’t actually be Undyne’s theme. Characters can’t share themes. Each theme belongs to only one character. No more. The “hero” theme not playing means it’s an actual character’s theme.

[And why should Homesuck not count? Just because it is absolutely linear as a webcomic? Unlike some other games, it has at least an interesting story. And you do not have so much freedom in many other games either. I really do not know why Homesuck should not count. In films and series people and places often have themes. Although it's not easy to compare it with games, it's still comparable.]

It’s saying it’s a “final boss theme”. Webcomics don’t have “bosses”. Bosses only exist in video games. I thought that was obvious. How can there be a “boss” in a non-video game?

[Then give me a good reason why Frisk should have no own theme. Just because Frisk is not an NPC? PCs can have their own themes too.]

Frisk probably does have a theme, but we’d never get to hear it. (Or maybe we can. It could be “Don’t Give Up”. I mean, that theme appears a lot as well, like in the Ruins.. Then again, that also plays in the Undyne battle, so it’s probably just the theme of determination.) After all, we ARE Frisk. We can only hear OTHER characters’ themes. Only way we’ll ever know what Frisk’s theme is (unless it’s, as I said, Don’t Give Up) would be if Undertale 2 came out, we played as someone else, and could interact with Frisk. Then their theme would play.

[What Undyne and Asgore do is actually a normal boss mechanic. They do not do anything else then to block the player's escape way. Turning you green or destroying the mercy button is nothing but closing the doors in a boss room. What Sans does is something different. Sans shoots first, not only doing damage, but also can kill you. He is the only character in the game, which, besides the player, first attacks with damage. (lets ignore the photoshop flowey fight)]

Toriel, Papyrus, and Mettaton don’t do this. Sure, you can’t run away from Mettaton, but Mettaton doesn’t attack you as to prevent hits from happening. Also, Undyne turning you green changes your mode. That’s a magical attack. She attacks first. Sure, you don’t take any damage.. But you also can’t take any damage from Papyrus’ failed special attack. And that still uses up a turn.