Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190617222636/@comment-32182236-20190725111038

As I said, that glyph was never meant to be taken literally.

If there really were no entrances or exits.. the monsters would have never gotten underground in the first place.

The monsters clearly knew that there was at least one entrance. The one that they entered through.

I date the creation of the puzzles in the Ruins at the same time as the creation of HOME itself-The hole was discovered at the end of the journey to the Ruins if your New Home Theory is right (any earlier, and the journey makes no sense-Any later, and the monsters had no reason to leave a huge gap that would later be filled by puzzles).. And if it's wrong, the puzzles were still built then, as gatekeepers for the humans.

It's sort of bold to say that the monsters weren't studying human garbage before Gaster arrived. They had to know about the garbage dump since it was on the way to the Ruins. And while the Ruins Door acted like a castle keep, I'd be very surprised if monsters didn't venture out to explore the surrounding areas.

The war happened during the Middle Ages. The monsters fled to the Ruins directly after the war. So that happened in the Middle Ages as well.

There is no history of waste management before the 18th century. We're several centuries away from waste management's existence. So the monsters never found the dump.. Because it didn't exist.

Specifically, when Gaster arrived, the monsters no longer became afraid of humans. They had to realize they had a One Up on human civilization somehow. And knowing that Gaster had better tech than the surface would certainly help reduce their fear.

Even if they did have the humans' trash, they'd only know they're better than human trash. So they had to find out some other way that Gaster gave far better technology than the humans.

As I said, I believe what made them stop fearing the humans was either Gaster's technological revolution, or the discovery that you would actually need both a human and a monster SOUL to even be able to leave the Barrier, rather than just "a powerful SOUL" (which a human could meet.. Papyrus still believes this myth, and tells it to Frisk), explaining why no human came in centuries-They would have no way of getting back.

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While there probably was a way to get from The Underground Entrance to the floor before The Core was built, rapelling line, ladder, or whatever, Frisk doesn't find any alternative method of getting to Asgore's Castle, other than going through The Core.

And neither do the monsters. They mention being trapped because the elevator isn't working. So it's not like Frisk just missed it somehow.

You see, I've constructed a valid (but not true) argument that, if true, would completely mess up the story of Undertale. Which means one of the premises of this argument must be false.


 * Premise 1:There is no way from Hotland to New Home without the CORE
 * Premise 2:The monsters were banished underground to the place where New Home is, not the Ruins
 * Premise 3:The CORE was not built until after the Ruins was created
 * Premise 4:If there's no way from Hotland to New Home, there's no way from New Home to Hotland
 * Conclusion:HOME could never have been founded

Premise 1 is true. I reject Premise 2. You'll have to either reject Premise 3 or Premise 4.