Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190403163405/@comment-26006155-20190416233741

You say that Determination is what gives a creature the ability to Save and Load?

The evidence goes against that. Undyne has Determination, but she can't Save and Load, or remember events from other runs.

Saving and Loading seems to come from a human SOUL, and I wouldn't be surprised to all to find out that Save and Load are the S & L in that mysterious acronymn.

You mentioned how we see two Undynes. And somehow her Determination was higher in the No Mercy route, allowing her to achieve Super Saiyan Fishperson 2.

We also see Frisk's Determination levels change over the game. Not just from the constant refilling of it at Save points, but with how invested he in an a particular battle. That's why Frisk can die to a Moldsmall, but take Asriels' Rainboe Death Laser right to the face, absorbing a blast from a literal god.

Frisk survives the last battle because the lives of all his friends were on the line, and his Determination skyrocketed because of it.

Determation levels are not a constant static value. They dynamically shift.

If human SOULs don't generate Determination, then why do only human SOULs get filled with it? They either make it, or have a connection to some other realm that they can draw it from. But in practical terms, what's the difference?

There might be something to what you say, about monsters potentially having trace amounts of Determination that cause no magical effects other than letting them remain living. But the last time we talked about Monster/Human hybrids, you hated the idea.

I've often wondered if the Boss Monsters, with their SOUL's strange ability to survive for a -little while- after death, might be because of traces of Determination. Perhaps Kanashi, your favorite First Monster With A Human SOUL, was the first Boss Monster, and his/her children carried some of that human legacy with them?

You're referring to Entry 8, so here it is:
 * ENTRY NUMBER 8: I've chosen a candidate. I haven't told ASGORE yet, because I want to surprise him with it... In the center of his garden, there's something special. The first golden flower, that grew before all the others. The flower from the outside world. It appeared just before the queen left. I wonder... What happens when something without a SOUL gains the will to live?

Once again, Alphys is making an assumption. The assumption that The First Golden Flower, which recieved the lion's share of Asriel's dust that was itself infused with Chara's human SOUL, did not contain a soul to begin with.

Also note that the question is: "what happens when something without a SOUL gains the will to live?"

By Alphys' own words, this flower, indeed ALL flowers, do not have the will to live. And yet, they do live, all the same.

It was the Determation Flowey recieved from Chara's wounded SOUL inside him that allowed him to Save and Load, and have the will to keep going after death. Yet flowers still grow and live all the time, without Determination.

I've often wondered what would happen if someone completed a whole game of Undertale without saving. The idea of a Null Save is certainly interesting.

And the human player could reset the game from the menu screen, instead of waiting for Frisk to die so an automatic save reload happened.

It's also interesting that Flowey always returned to the garden each time he died, and never used any other Save Points. It could be convinced, or a hit at something else, such as Save Points not existing for him at that time.

Toriel gets her de-ja vu moment by looking at Frisk's face, remarking that he looks like he's seen a ghost. So Toriel isn't the one remember here.. Frisk is the one remembering, and Toriel is reacting to Frisk's reaction.

I think you might be reading a bit too much into the game starting with a pre-loaded save point at the beginning, if Frisk dies before he can save.

Although it's interesting that we can only perform a True Reset after finishing a True Pacifist run. And even then it doesn't erase losing out SOUL to Chara.

Assuming of course that Chara's SOUL wasn't our own to begin with.

The mechanic of people being ripped from a timeline and set to another does sound interesting,

And if the FUN value changes, that could mean it's a completely new timeline then, not just a reset.