Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31371445-20170222233857/@comment-32182236-20180716181121

Alright, here's my response (which also uses and expands upon some of Malice's points)

"Okay, here's something for all of you. I currently have no interest in replying to anything in here. So it's just a lone, brand new statement."

Hm, does it have do with the SOUL traits? We always had something about those traits somewhere in the discussion..

(Spoiler:It's not.)

"Most of the monsters seem oblivious to the fact that you are, in fact, a human."

No, they just don't say you're a human because that would be the biggest case of being Captain Obvious in Undertale history.

"Only a selected bunch of monsters, mostly the royal guard members, correctly deduce it."

Only a selected bunch of monsters would decide to make their battle more of a formal duel-One where they both acknolwedge one another and follow some customary procedues-Like how Papyrus and Undyne both explain to you exactly what they're doing when they turn your SOUL a certain color, and how to battle using said mode.

"If the entire kingdom would be on a hunt for a human soul, I would expect LOTS remarks about it."

No, you might expect a giant mob coming over, and crying out to kill the human, but not a bunch of monsters coming one by one, saying how you're a human and such. Besides, the flavor text and Toriel's tutorial both imply the monsters are the one that initiate the battle. The only cases that we can really say are cases of monsters not recognizing humans are Dogamy and Dogaressa, who can end up thinking that you're a lost puppy:But as you said before, dogs mainly rely on other senses than sight. (They can't even see color well like we do!) So, it could be that they didn't percieve themselves in a battle at this point. (Hey, if throwing a stick is enough to distact them, their attention span must be pretty small, and turns to be a real case of them forgetting that they're supposed to be fighting. And since the HUD is mainly a visual phenomenon, not through the other senses, then..)

"So they truly don't know."

..Yes, they do know. It's just they don't want to be the biggest ever iteration of Captain Obvious. It's just as silly as telling an extrateresstial that, well.. They're an extraterrestial. (Actually even more silly, since we don't actually know if extrateresstials exist)

..I stand that the HUD did exist in war times, so I'm going over to that asterisk. (in my previous post I had specifically said that people who lived the war would be the ones telling the story.)

"Unless... the HUD did exist in the war times too. Then, it could have been a part of their folklore. They would know all about it, as in, how only humans seem to have it and how it makes battles go down, and so with that, they should have guessed your identity by just encountering you..."

And they DID. It's just that they're not Captain Obvious.

"A cheap cover-up vs. denial. The former would be the weirdest assumption yet and the latter would, apparently, go against Toby's own words?"

Yeah, they're both weird. I present a third answer:There is no coverup, it's just that monsters just don't point out the super obvious.

Joke-"Oh, look, I'm typing right now! Sooo cool, definitely someting I should acknolwedge right now!" (Also known as:The natural conclusion of Tsskyx's logic on monster behavior.)

"Well... since Undertale only works as a game, it may as well be self-aware like Oneshot or Doki Doki Literature Club. But if we want to turn it into its own universe, then the only sensible explanation for the former WOULD be a simulated reality"

Say it with me:INTELLEGENT. DESIGN.

There's also the case that just like we happen to live on this very unique planet because elsewhere, and we wouldn't be alive, this world was chosen with such "fine-tuned" coordinates, because the many other AUs simply wouldn't give us this story. I mean, look at all the things about the Earth, all the things that needed to happen for life to form. Almost as if it was fine-tuned, amirite?

(Here's the second paragraph on a lower level:Undertale's world appears to have this specific laws because otherwise, the story wouldn't work for a game-Just as we observe ourselves on Earth, which appears to have very specific conditions for life, because otherwise, we wouldn't exist in the first place. The first? That's as simple as it gets:Intellegent Design. Ever heard of it? I didn't make up the concept-I just applied it to Undertale.)

"You see, you have something that tampers with the continuity of the entire world, that may or may not have always existed, and even intricately modifies everyone's memories so that they would not ask the right questions."

You mean sends everyone back in time, where only someone who was exposed to the HUD before would clearly recall what happened, where everyone else still has feelings of deja-vu, based on what happened last timeline? (And just knowing the HUD through experimental data isn't being exposed to it. You'd have to be the one with the most determination at SOME point in time for this to occur.)

"If it always existed, then we can extend the idea onto the overworld too. It would be a logical thing to draw. If the HUD was always there, what else was always there? The HUD is literally incompatible with OUR world, so why should that world be like our world, am I right?"

When did I say it was like our world? I myself ditched things from our world.

"What if it's just as crazy as the HUD itself? E.g. Frisk doesn't walk off the cliff because something is physically holding them back, collected items turn into pure stats and letters (they are captchalogued, as Homestuck would say), the Froggits speaking of keyboard keys meaning it literally, etc, all of which would even strongly imply the simulation scenario."

Making baseless assumptions not mentioned by the game, and then using them to say a simulation is most likely? Really?

But yes, the HUD exists in the overworld. For items, SAVEs, and possibly text boxes as well-They don't actually move with Frisk as shown by making a phone call while Frisk is on a conveyor belt.

"On the other hand, say the HUD was created artificially at some point in time and you've got a problem, it collides with the overworld, which should still act like our world. Unless, of course, the creation of the HUD changed it as well. Or perhaps, the fact that it wasn't like our world made it possible to construct the HUD in the first place."

Yeah, no. The HUD was likely always a factor.

"In any case, you can see that the overworld MUST be different from our world no matter what, all because of the HUD."

Yes, it is different in some way.

"But due to the nature of the HUD, we know exactly how different. Assuming the overworld and the HUD are the same, ergo, their laws agree with one another - they're compatible, then the following must be true for the overworld as well, or at least, possible to construct: selective mind control, selective continuity / mind-related action halt, transmutation of physical matter into non-physical magical "stats", buttons that utilize fonts, etc. The last is probably the most cheesy one."

The last one is NOT the most cheesy one. The mind control and transumation into stats are far more cheesy.

"All of this would be fine on its own, but the HUD is still the biggest hurdle here. Where is it coming from? I don't think the souls are creating it on its own, it's always the same."

Indeed. While there's a relationship, SOULs aren't the origin. SOULs (and/or determination) are only the "origin" of the HUD as much as determination is the "origin" of S/L/R. Determination is what allows you to utilize the HUD, what activates it for you.

"The only thing the souls appear to be doing is cheating it. So it must have a different source. Is there like a machine powering the entire world into such state? Or perhaps only the underground?"

No, it's an effect of an extra law that exists somewhere.

"Final question: is the entire underground under a mind control experiment where no one asks any question about this otherwise unnatural (although completely possible) phenomena?"

No.

"I mean, constant explosions in the air are possible in our world and yet, you would probably see people freaking out if they started happening."

Yes, because explosions are DANGEROUS. Also, what are the odds?

"Same thing here, the HUD might make sense, but is certainly not natural."

It IS natural. ..Oh, you meant the default state of the world, didn't you? ..Well, I don't have a comparison of a state our world can enter that fits..

"This is my explanation of things if the HUD was a thing. Because the difference between it and the overworld is like night and day, clear even to the biggest idiot."

Yes, that's true. And we don't suddenly tell everyone that it's night when night arrives now, do we? The very FACT that it's very clear is why they don't point it out! As I said, that'd be a huge case of Captain Obvious. They have no reason to state the obvious-It's completely redundant.

"And while the monsters may not see all of it, they would still observe its effects, e.g. turns. But they don't."

..They do.

"I guess Sans is the only w0ke one or something?"

As Malice said, no, he's just the only one who researched enough to discover that monsters could dodge as well. The reason why (which I'm adding) is because the method of dodging involves both knowing that the invisible attack is caused by pressing an invisible button, predicting the timing between the two events, alongside looking closely enough to see just when the button was pushed (when the button's completely invisible, and likely pass-throughable, it's harder than it seems.) So it's not something obvious just about anyone can find out. Yes, they understand the concept of dodging, but the method of doing so for a monster is just too complex for someone to just find out naturally-It takes serious research.

PS:Undyne remarks about not landing a hit. This is concrete proof they know about dodging. But add in these natural conditions to dodging the slash attack, and you'll see why they didn't just figure THAT one out.