Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31536324-20190117214835/@comment-27136653-20190320135219

@everyone, find your quotes in this mess:

'''Oh no, the leaves are changing color because it's autumn! That's proof that the universe is built from the ground up, and thus likely a simulation!'''

Not exactly. The HUD contains rectangle buttons. Even if you don't think their shape is canon, there's still the regularity of the turns, which too is very difficult to explain through some natural means. I really don't see how the turns would have evolved to be like this, or what would have kickstarted their evolution to begin with.

The only reason why you’re even considering the “simulation hypothesis” is because the game explains SAVE and LOAD in-canon.

No, I'm considering it because the HUD has been presented as canon. The save powers don't bother me in the slightest, since they can be explained without the need of some master computer setting it all manually (as the UT code is doing, instead of, for example, letting everything evolve through simple mathematic equations). This power can be explained simply as time travel.

If the game wasn’t explaining SAVE and LOAD in-canon, you would treat it like any other game.

If it never explained it but still utilized it, I still wouldn't. In order for me to ignore something like that, that thing mustn't have any impact whatsoever on the rest of the game itself. Such as the changing title of the game. That can be disregarded.

But of course, since SAVE and LOAD were explained IN-CANON,that must mean that all other game elements...break the 4th wall!

I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. Do you even know what this discussion is currently about?

Just because SAVE and LOAD are explained in-canon doesn’t mean everything else needs to be explained in-canon.

As I've already hinted above, things that need not an explanation are those that do not affect the game in any way. Things that do not need an explanation can therefore be removed. However, I sometimes consider removing things that were referenced nonetheless. Usually, it's because they might exist solely for the sake of breaking the 4th wall, or simply being a joke by Toby. It's always important to keep everything in the game with a grain of salt.

However, all of this is completely unrelated to what I was discussing here. I am not considering removing the HUD. I am considering giving it a different explanation, in order to not have to assume that it has been programmed, but rather that it naturally arose.

This is what the others are essentially doing too, but I'm not just removing the buttons and whatnot, I'm deconstructing the rules of the battle too (some characters bypass these rules anyways, so eh), because I think they too are weird, just like the buttons.

Besides, you’re assuming that all of the other game elements are most certainly not possible to explain in-canon, which proves that they break the 4th wall, but you shouldn’t even need to explain them in-canon in the first place?

I suggest you go back to lurking until you figure this discussion out.

Well duh he didn’t think through that, Sherlock.

Glad we can agree on that.

Concerning the games simulation,ive just remembered something:the computer'date.So sorry appears when your computer date is at october and a certain hour

All the ways you can interpret this:

1) Proof that the player is canon.

2) Proof that the world is simulated.

3) The date relation isn't actually canon, and the true date depends on our head canons.

4) So Sorry isn't canon.

It's interesting to think that Frisk falls on the date that we play the game. Then again, there aren't that many other references to the real world date in the game, so I don't think it's canon. However, I don't think that So Sorry isn't, so I prefer explanation number 3, and like saying that the date is correct, but that resetting and playing through the game doesn't actually change the date, since the entirety of UT takes place in one day. And in my personal fanfic, Frisk fell on the day the game was released, so they've never met So Sorry. Interesting to think about this.

''It's not macroscopic, only you and your opponent are in the HUD system, and the overworld rules still apply! They're just meaningless now!''

In other words, Frisk is a fundamental building block of the universe when the HUD is active? That smells of a simulation. The default rules being replaced just like that does too. I mean, the laws of this universe can also behave weirdly, like, inside black holes, space and time can switch places, but that's at least given by math. There's no such relation between the overworld and the HUD in Undertale.

Without the HUD, if your SOUL was taken out of your body, you're just dead.

And how are you sure it's not the HUD itself that takes the soul out? If that's the case, your theory falls apart. And besides, if everyone who ever got their soul taken out died, then how exactly did this evolve? The dead do nothing and the suriviving have no physiological reason to develop this ability. There needs to be a gradient, not everything being either 100% ok or 100% fucked up. Evolution doesn't happen without a gradient. Unless it was a random ad hoc mutation.