Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-37334388-20190301031034/@comment-32182236-20190903185432

Holly heck,ask this to Toriel who actually buried Chara under the golden flowers they loved.

...You do know that Toriel didn't know that control was actually split between them, right?

The monster consensus is that once Asriel absorbed Chara's SOUL, Asriel did everything. HE carried the body onto the flowers, HE just smiled and left, yet had the power to kill them all, and HE stumbled home. Chara? No, they weren't in control at all!

Toriel believed that Chara would simply live on inside of their body, in the same way that monsters' essence is contained within their dust.

And Chara's essence must have settled into their body eventually.. Else we couldn't have awakened them.

This is why Asriel had to tell us that actually, control was split between the two. He was correcting what we likely heard, because it's what every single monster believed happened.

If they wanted to bring their body back to the village to force an attack then there's no need to carry it on the golden flowers aswell,showing Asriel carying it is enough.

The golden flowers were at the center of the village. Chara needed more witnesses. And Asriel needed to be convinced that the humans acted irrationally. If Chara just walked randomly saying "Hey, look at this body", I'm pretty sure Asriel would catch on to what Chara is doing, and would not be convinced that humans did anything wrong.

Asriel was convinced it was solely a burial, and it would have looked this way to any human paying attention as well. But they attacked anyways, like Chara predicted. This makes them look bad.

So it wasn't to put Asriel into danger specifically... It was to make humanity look bad. That way, Asriel won't object when Chara reveals that actually, they're destroying ALL of humanity, not just six.

Again why would they carry it on the golden flowers that they loved very much as implied by their drawing instead of giving it to the humans ?.

Because that wouldn't make humanity look bad.

By the way, the knolwedge that humans would attack Asriel for something like that? I think that's one of, if not THE main reason why Chara hated humanity. They want Asriel to reach the same conclusion, so he won't object to humanity's destruction.

So no need to carry it on the golden flowers at all.

As I said, Chara both wants to attract the most attention, and cause an attack, while at the same time, making it look like it's just humans being bad. They wanted Asriel to hate humanity.

Why would they care at all about it if they only cared about putting Asriel in harm ways??You're over complicating things really.It's easier to claim that Chara only wanted to put their body to rest on the golden flowers because they loved them.Even Toriel did that latter on with Chara's body so why Chara wouldn't?

They did still care about Asriel. The reason why they wanted the humans to attack wasn't to put him in harm's way. It's to convince him that he needs to kill them off. And then later on that humans are bad.

Wrong,they let him run away without resisting.Otherwise Asriel couldnt leave.They did not want to oppose to his wish and latter on you have to prove whatever his decision was right or wrong.

All we prove by killing off the monsters is that we're bad. Not that monsters deserve to die.

He never mention that.If Chara did resist the decision,they could kill them all or none of them could do anything at all.Asriel just ran away in the vain hope to save himself.

It's the latter. None of them could do anything effectively.

It was the monsters telling Asriel's story that mentions that Asriel stumbled on the way home. Since the monsters couldn't see what happened on the Surface, only after he retreated and reached the Underground would the monsters witness Asriel stumbling-I believe he was stumbling on his way out of the battle as well. This may be why he took blow after blow, rather than leaving immediately. They were fighting over what to do. Though it could also be Asriel not fighting, but not understanding that he has to fight or leave, which just makes him look even WORSE to Chara.

They figure out it in pacifist run

After Flowey transforms into Hyperdeath Asriel?

I don't think Chara can kill Hyperdeath Asriel.

AND they already know that when you reset before completely aborting genocide run but even then Chara does not kill him.

In that case, I simply refer you to the argument below.

They NEVER becomes physical,they are a ghost,an essence similar to Flowey.What you see at the end of the genocide run is a projection.

Why would we see a projection? And why only then? And how does a ghost use a physical Real Knife to attack Sans? (Even if you don't have the Real Knife equipped, a slash is still what kills Sans in the end.)

Doenst matter,Asriel prove that Chara can take over however they want.

Chara had a SOUL and determination back then. But here?

"My 'determination'. My 'human SOUL'. They were not mine, but YOURS."-Chara Dreemurr

Chara was SOULless when they awakened. That's probably the reason why Chara doesn't just plain force us to do Genocide. They can't.

He is not their guide and he's not the one who get attacked by monsters.

If Chara knew that Flowey was Asriel, as you said.. Then they'd also know that even Asriel got the message.

And recall that Flowey DOES just plain attack us the same way the humans do. And.. so do all the monsters that attack us, actually. So it makes the monsters look just as bad as the humans that attacked Chasriel. In fact, I'd argue they actually are just as bad. Actually, worse, since the humans knew Asriel absorbed a SOUL, so it's easy to conclude that he killed Chara, and there's no evidence we killed anyone.

Though I do think it's better phrased that the humans are "no worse" than said monsters. But Chara would see it the more negative way that I described it earlier, considering that they already hate humans.

There's no dialogue afterwards but you stil have to press Z OR to force them to attack like in any battle.

...There's no FIGHT button, though. So it's not like we're telling them to kill. We're literally just pressing Z to find out what happens next.

https://nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/145625412741/chara-kills-flowey-without-your-permission

Because they did not want to see him dead and thus wanted to completely erase from existence?Anyway,Chara does not kill Flowey in any other run even the onfor es where they figure out his identity.

...Because they can't.

You're giving WAY too much potential control to Chara. Frisk is in control FAR more often than you think.

And they were about to erase the world directly after killing Flowey anyways, so it really wouldn't matter either way-All traces of Flowey would vanish when the world was erased.

This was clearly a revenge kill.

But why specifically on the golden flowers they loved and not drop it anywhere?

Because they were already on the golden flowers! Dropping it right there IS dropping it on the golden flowers!

...However, I realized that they never dropped it at all.

The monsters said Chara carried it ONTO the flowers, so they walked onto the flowers with the body.

And if Chara dropped it, the body would have never made it underground to end up in Asgore's coffin.

They were holding it the whole time. Looks like Asriel's resistance happened quite early, because fighting while holding a body is probably going to be a lot harder.

Chara didn't even get to prepare an attack. Or drop the body.

Yeah that what i meant,they were specifically looking for golden flowers,not a place to attract the most attention.

The golden flowers they chose were the ones at the very center of the village. And because it's the center, it's the place that would attract the most attention.

And why would they want to attract the most attention if they just wanted to prove Asriel that humans are bad???

...Because they wanted to have as many attack as possible. If only, like, three humans saw them, Asriel might argue that Chara's generalizing too fast, and these just so happen to be three bad humans. But showing that the entire VILLAGE was bad?

And why didn't say simply say why they hated humanity if they really wanted to persuade that humans are bad??

Asriel:So.. why do you hate humanity again?

Chara:...They don't like monsters.

Asriel:..Is that it? ..Maybe they just fear what we could accomplish?

Asriel:So, why do you hate humanity again?

Chara:They… attack what they don't understand. They fear the unknown.

Asriel:..That doesn't sound like them being bad. Just them being ignorant sometimes. That happens to all of us! Like that silly incident with the buttercups!

Just saying the reason wouldn't do it justice. Asriel would be more convinced if he saw that reason for himself.

Furthermore,there's no need to make the villagers believe that Asriel killed them as his appearence alone could convince the humans to attack.

We don't know that. While I would side with you on this matter, because it'd be visible that they absorbed a human SOUL, if they're not trying to bury their body, Asriel would probably be wondering why Chara isn't just getting to killing the six humans they need, then breaking the Barrier, then just plain leaving to tell everyone that the Barrier is broken.

Plus remember that Asriel and Chara came here to kill 6 humans,so the attacks are inevitable and thus Chara doens't need to carry their body for this to happen.

But if they attack after Asriel attacks, their attacks will clearly be self-defense, and Asriel would have no reason to see this as humans being bad.

-

Chara:Can't you see? Humanity is bad! They attacked us!

Asriel:..We attacked them first, Chara. They were just trying to protect themselves. What's so bad about that? We're attacking them just to free ourselves!