Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-32182236-20171213151556/@comment-32182236-20180119213300

"Besides, Toby didn't think much about the outside world. If he did, we would have probably learned where exactly on our Earth was Mt. Ebott located. That would be the least he could have told us. But he didn't."

It's like with FNAF-It's a mystery.. Scott didn't reveal where Freddy Fazbear's is in FNAF, and Toby didn't reveal where Ebott is in Undertale. But we know it's in the USA.

"Besides, why would a vegetoid be controlled by the USDA? Isn't this implying the story is happening in the US? Despite the fact that the US isn't as old as the monster kingdom? So unless the monsters have been sealed by native americans, this is either a plot hole, or the Earth in the story isn't our Earth."

The narration text says "Not monitored by the USDA." It's not monitored by the USDA precisely because the USDA didn't exist when monsters were banished. Also, what's the problem with Native Americans banishing away the monsters?

"If it was, Toby would have made it more obvious."

What's more obvious than flat-out mentioning the USDA, having humans, and saying "two races ruled over the earth?" Does he have to make a WWII reference even though that's not relevant to the plot, and the monsters wouldn't even be aware of WWII?

"But as I said, I no longer believe this. The more I look at it, the more weird it seems that Chara spent an entire year in Home."

So we can agree that Chara DIDN'T stay in Home? Or do you mean they did, just not for a year?

"Well just because they haven't mentioned them on the first journey doesn't mean it didn't happen."

My point is, it would be more important to mention it the FIRST time around, because the first time going through would be the hardest. So why wait until the second time around to mention the harsh conditions?

"Besides, I think the fact that they walked to the ends of the caverns speaks for itself."

It does. Snowdin's not a cavern, so that cuts Snowdin off. The caverns are the Ruins.

"And New Home is crowded already - imagine the current monster population living in Home."

Most monsters were killed off during the war-There were fewer monsters during that time period, before they recovered their numbers. Besides, Home too has a giant city, as seen in the room with the Toy Knife. We just never get to see it.. Just like New Home's city that we never get to see.

"I mean, you're already there, it doesn't matter if you found your city in that corner of the same cavern, or in a different one, it's still the same sub-cavern, you're still describing the same area."

It still describes a long distance though. They're saying they walked through the ENTIRE Ruins before they founded their city. If they meant the underground, why didn't the mention the hotland, the waterfall, and the snow area, which aren't even caverns at ALL, but then decide the second time around, it's suddenly a good idea to mention the things they already went through once before without saying anything.

"It looks bigger than the path we took from the entrance to Toriel's home, so it probably doesn't matter. As I said, the Ruins are small."

What? It looks like only a few small buildings that can all be seen from one room. Just like New Home. Which seems strange, but considering there's only a few hundred (okay, maybe a thousand) monsters, it's no problem.

"I don't see the problem? I mean, it's not like it was already there when they arrived. They built it all by themselves. And the same applies to New Home, so... what even is your point here?"

Of course it wasn;t already there when they arrived, if it was, it would be no problem! The problem is that the monsters designed the city of Home so that the entrance is facing the Ruins hole, and not facing Snowdin, which is where the other monsters should be entering the city from. Snowdin's supposed to be an entrance if they're moving into the city FROM Snowdin. And yet, Snowdin's on the other side of a door in the basement of the Royal Castle. So, if a few monsters were late and wanted to enter.. They'd.. go through the basement of the royal palace, and exit through the entrance? That's bad arcitechture. If it's meant to be entered from New Home's side (And it would, since that's the place monsters were according to your theory), the entrance should be facing New Home. Not the complete opposite direction!

"As I said, this implies they knew the underground very well when they wrote that. For sure they would have scanned it for any possible openings. What this suggests is that the hole in the Ruins wasn't there yet when they were sealed. And I also speculated how it could have been created, if you remember."

It really doesn't. I could say there's no way an alien will invade Earth, but does that mean I know the universe and extraterrestrial planets very well, along with what an alien would be and methods used to arrive, and the many complex things pne would need to know to make that assertion? It doesn't-I could just be saying it because, oh, I dunno, no aliens have came, and therefore, none will! (Yes, that's a fallacy. I'm suggesting the monsters used the same fallacy. Not everyone's actually logical-The plaques weren't written by a brilliant scientist, but a speculator.)

"Uh... no. That's not what that sentence said at all."

If they're sure no humans would come, they don't fear the humans. After all, they're sure none will come, so what is there to fear about them if they're never going to come? (The next sentence also says "We will be trapped here forever"-It seems now they don't want to be trapped, and want to be set free with the humans again. Pretty out of character for someone who fears humans.)

"Unless we say that different plaques were written at different times."

Which doesn't make sense because each plaque connects seamlessly with the next.

"How would they be able to scan the entire mountain while getting banished? It's not like it took a whole day. The humans attacked quickly and without mercy. There probably wasn't even time for them to pick up their own stuff."

"After a long battle, the humans were victorious"-Intro

Yes, the initial attack was quick. But the actual WAR that resulted from the quick, merciless attack was long.

"Just make a staircase. Sheesh."

Well, that'd be one pretty big staircase. Wonder if it'd even be stable. Or if the monsters would have enough building material to make such a HUGE staircase. The staircase would also have to be as wide as it is high, so it'd be much bigger than the CORE itself, which is higher than it is wide. Based on how small the Undergrond really is (only about 5-8 times the size of the Ruins, based on our trip through it), it'd probably take less than a week or two to get to New Home, and yet, as the calendars implied, it took nearly a year. So.. What took so long? OH WAIT. That giant cliff we were talking about. They probably spend most of that time finding a way to progress past it.

"Isn't it rather because they have magic? I reckon that stuff WOULD speed up their technological advancement. Not because they're overly smart."

Well, that can work too. Maybe it's a combination of that and what I mentioned. And it's not that they're all geniuses, it's that they don't waste their time with fictional stories and anime, and focus solely on scientific research and logic.

"Are you saying they don't have literature? Is such thing even possible? For every monster to resist the urge to write their thoughts down on a piece of paper purely because it would have no scientific value? That's science fiction right there, and it was already made into a TV show"

So, just because it's in a TV show, it HAS to be wrong? What kind of logic are you using? Why isn't such a thing actually plausible? Give me actual reasons, other than "Someone made a TV show out of it." If anything, it means this is something people actually take as a serious enough possibility to make a TV show out of. So, I ask again-What's the problem with this set-up just because "Eureka" used it? What, do you think that would mean Toby's infringing copyright? By using ONE idea from a show, without even using any of the characters or story, and giving it a SMALL role in the story, and possibly not even been inspired by that show?

"And how did he figure out that it was a single person, AND that this single person was the royal scientist?"

...The blueprints? And the fact that whoever built it HAD to be great at scientist, and would surely be chosen as the Royal Scientist?

"No, seriously, there's no proof of anyone forgetting anything. No one has any holes in their memory, they simply never mention Gaster because no one came to speak about that topic. Only the Gaster followers did really."

...No mention of the smartest monster in the universe? The fact that Sans and Papyrus appeared to just literally show up out of NOWHERE? (Snowdin Shop) Sans' "don't forget" in the lab?

"No, it might not. Please, this isn't the Glitchtale wikia. I keep telling you this."

Sans and Papyrus having mysterious origins has nothing to do with Glitchtale. It's flat-out stated by the Snowdin shopkeeper. Why do you think I never mentioned anything about inverting traits and creating a Bete Noire?

"They couldn't even connect the dots that Frisk is a human."

Toriel could, Sans could, Undyne could, Asgore could, the monsters could and attacked you, the Royal Guards could.. They all knew Frisk was a human. The only ones who didn't appear to were the ones that told the story about Asriel... But what if they were being ambigious on the world "free"? What if they were going to "free" you from the mortal realm, like what they feared would happen to them?

Then there's Monster Kid. And well, he's an impressionable kid who probably never learned about what humans are supposed to look like.

"Maybe it's just that most of those that would have remembered him are either dead, or maybe they aren't and it's just that his disappearance wasn't so memorable, since he himself wasn't all that memorable."

->Created the very thing powering the entire Underground

->Unlocked the secrets of Determination

->Most brilliant scientist ever, with irreplaceable brilliance

->Not remembered by ANYONE?

Also, why doesn't your phone work when you're with a Gaster Follower?

"With all these accomplishments, he would have no time for publicity."

Instead, he'd be like Einstien-Never actually met, not a celebrity, but still someone who is well-known for what they did.

"Or MAYBE, he was a celebrity and the monsters still do remember him, but they probably don't feel like talking about him when we meet them. Go through the game yourself and see which monsters might have said something about Gaster."

ANY monster that mentions the CORE would mention Gaster. He'd be a well-known, well appreciated scientist. Like Einstein. Actually, better than Einstien because he created the thing powering everyone-So, it'd be more like Thomas Edison? Or someone who did Einstien-like scienctific research AND Edison-level inventing.. No way they'd NOT be recognized for their work.

"Maybe Alphys did learn about him, but then again, maybe she simply never felt like mentioning this to us, since honestly, we didn't really need that information? And yes I know, we didn't need to know how the Core works either, but I think it's not that weird that she didn't mention him."

She does mention that she doesn't know how it works.. Then would be the perfect opportunity to say "After all, I didn't make the core.. Gaster did." (okay, maybe add a bit of stuttering into the mix)

"If someone truly disappeared and suddenly there was a massive powerplant in Hotland, I think she would have mentioned that no one knows who built it or how the Core ended up there."

Unless perhaps she believes SHE was the one who made it? ...That would explain why she finds it strange that she doesn't know how it works, enough to mention it right to you..

"Do WE celebrate Alan Turing as the one who practically won the war, by deciphering secret Nazi messages? Not really."

We DO celebrate him as the one who created the concept of a Turing Machine, however.

"Does Toriel hate Asgore? Yes.

Did she leave, never to be seen again? Yes.

Does Asgore have 6 human souls? Yes.

Did Toriel ever manage to stop a single one from continuing? No."

Do we have proof that Toriel left before the second human fell? No. Toriel left before the second human fell, and the second human died in the Ruins.

Now, to demonstrate my problem.

The door to leave the Ruins is only one-way. Therefore, if the one who had the item made it past the Ruins, how did it end up back at the Ruins, if the door is only one-way?

"And yet, she's not a child. She cooks as she fights. It's rather a reflection of her own personality."

But she's still as BAD as cooking as a child. It's almost as if a child was the one who taught her cooking, instead of parents who were actually competent.

"It was an earthquake. That's what I meant."

Then why isn't the Ruins LITERALLY in ruins? (Where are the ruins of the buildings that would be destroyed from an earthquake powerful enough to create that hole? Where's the piece of the mountain that was broken off?)

"And the history books, well. We've read a few passages, but the books are thicker than that. Maybe it IS there."

Alright, good point there.

"Indeed, someone was always first. And Gaster was a scientist. Scientists test and observe. Trial and error isn't all that genial."

Correct. But GASTER was. So, if you add a brilliant mind into the mix, you can make MUCH more discoveries than usual. Much more discoveries than humans. You can even beat out humans...

"But even he is no match for Srinivasa Ramanujan for example. That guy ineed was a pure genius."

Yeah, in math. We don't have scientific discoveries to compare with Einstien, so we have no way to tell. Though it is true he made MANY mathemetical discoveries. One person, made many discoveries. And that's what I argue Gaster was like-One genius scientist who made many discoveries in science, and revolutionized the underground's technology, pushing the monsters far past the technology level of humans. After he died, though, the rate of growth slowed back to normal. Alphys might be smart, but she's not a genius.

"But even if, the other monsters would surely attempt to stop this one."

They'd be no match. Even ONE soul is enough to make said monster mote powerful than the rest put together.

"If 7 billion humans were wiped out, they wouldn't be cheering."

Or they would, because they're the ones who wiped out the humans. They were like Catty and Bratty:SOOOO hyped for the destruction of humanity!

Are you also one of the royal guards who refuse to believe anything Toby says from now on just because of something he said half-jokingly sometime in the past? (Not implying Undyne joked ofc.)

There's a difference between someone who trolls like a Scott Cawthon, and someone who changed their stance. Undyne changed her stance, Toby was just a troll. He's like the boy who cried wolf. We're like the villagers in the story. Of course, just because he said something doesn't make it WRONG, either-They're not "Bizzaro canon", after all. (If you don't know what I mean, look up the Bizzaro world from DC's universe) So, the best thing to do is just disregard the tweet entirely-Maybe it's true, maybe it's false, we don't know, so we need to stop using it as evidence and stop saying it's proof, when it could very well be another lie!

The Royal Guards probably thought Undyne was actually mind-controlled. That is what she said, after all...

Well, there is an official Chara tarot card, so.. Yeah, that's a lie. (Not because he said it, but because there's evidence against it) Also, maybe Saito didn't force the email-Maybe he GOT the email from a fake Toby.