Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190425222457/@comment-32182236-20190501015233

Oh, I agree that the Empire is evil. I cited the video as evidence that it's possible to make a ridiculous claim sound plausible using circumstantial evidence. Though I'm sure this is a claim MatPat would love to use.

...Oh wait, he actually has:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Y3dlTDAxw

Okay, he didn't actually say the Empire was good. Just that the Rebels' attack wasn't justified, since the Empire's system was still a stable one, and they just killed off major leaders (of the Empire), and thus actually caused MORE damage than the Empire itself did!

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The answer to my multiple-choice question I had in mind was C. But if it really is hard to see in those helmets, your option D is the real most likely choice.

Sometimes, the simplest answer really is the right one.

But since I'm trying to show that just about anything can be argued if you cherrypick things enough, I'll continue to "defend" the "Empire is good" theory a bit more. Remember, I don't actually believe it, just that it's possible to argue for it if we allow circumstantial evidence to take priority. So expect a LOT of that. The REAL point I'm trying to make is how circumstantial evidence isn't sufficient, and can easily be abused. Like I'm going to be doing here "defending" the Empire. But hey, if you still watch Game Theory, you should probably be used to this by now...

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I hardly think the Stormtroopers would continue to fire warning shots at the heros while their fellows were dying all aroun them.

What scene are you referring to, Ferret? Then I'll answer. I'm sure I can warp the context enough to still make it look plausible.

And I hardly think that the Death Star destroying Alderaan was a warning shot.

Did you even watch the video? It stated that Alderaan was specifically targeted because it was a Rebel base with a reasonably small number of civilians. Think of it like Hiroshima.

And Darth Vader made a point of executing several officers who failed him in the second film.

Several? I only recall this scene:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZoxY3sawE

And we never actually see the officer die-Just get force choked and fall.

The Empire is notoriously without mercy, resorting to fear to try to control people. The very last thing the Emperor would ever do is tell his Stormtroopers to fire warning shots. He's all about making a swift, deadly example of anyone who stands in his way.

Without mercy, you say? ...The video's here, if you missed it:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHE8EhOW994

The Death Star took over 20 years to make. Clearly, if it took this long, constructing it wasn't its top priority.

The Empire wanted to bring a SWIFT end to the rebellion, to restore order, much as the Union wanted to bring a swift end to the Confederacy. You have to remember who the rebels are:Rebels. But at the same time, the Emperor chose a planet with a small population. It's clear they want to prevent casualities. Which, once again, was also the motive behind Hiroshima.

Compare the Rebel ships with the Imperial ones again.

Obi Wan demonstrates that the Stormtroopers (at least those in the first six films, not the somehow-Elite ones the First Order trained that Finn was a part of) are weak-willed. He can easily control several of them with a wave of his hand.

Exactly. The Jedi resort to mind control. Who's the villain, again?

This is what happens when you fill the ranks in an organization with Those Who Are Loyal and Those Who Are Coerced.

That's how countries work! Treason is a real crime, you know.

The Loyalists follow so easily because they have small minds, and find it easier to let someone else make the decisions. And the Coerced follow unwillingly out of fear, until the moment that fear disappears, whereupon rage takes its place and they do anything possible to destroy their hated "masters".

When was it established that this is how the Jedi Mind trick works? All I see is Obi-Won making them believe in obvious lies. Like the "these are not the droids you are looking for". It seems the Jedi's the one doing the coercion.. Literal mind-control!

So the Empire's forces are filled with incompetents, and those who wish to see it Fall.

The only case of that I'm aware of was Han Solo, and he left the empire.

Meanwhile, those who are strong of mind are more likely to rebel from tyrany. Which is why you get so many hero-types in the Rebellion, willing to risk their lives fighting overwhelming odds to make the galaxy a better place.

Hmm, let's see.. The main government of the galaxy is gone, and now everything devolves into anarchy.

...You know, maybe MatPat's video DOES support this case after all.

If Hitler hadn't been a hateful sociopathic bastard, and made a point of killing so many of his own people, he probably would have won WWII.

Well, yeah, instead of bombing Pearl Harbor, he could have just stole all the oil there...

As Princess Leia said so sagely to Grand Moff Tarkin: "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."

There really is a dilemma, isn't there? Tighten your grip too much, and people will leave for oppression. But loosen it too much, and people will leave because they feel like it.

So, can I prove that the Stroomtroopers weren't just firing Mercy Shots, and that the Empire is evil?

Depends on how high you set the bar for evidence. Use the system I've been promoting, and the Jedi are definitely the good guys. But if circumstantial evidence is good enough, I can really make a case that the resonating theme in Star Wars, that the Rebels were good and the Empire was evil, was flat-out wrong. It's not that hard to do a MatPat.

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You see? It really is possible to make a bad theory look good. This is why we need to think critically as to whether "evidence" is actually evidence, or just the result of adding meaning to something that was just there. As I said, sometimes three rocks are just three rocks. Here, have another one, this time with Thanos:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXCVZNpx1nI