Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26006155-20190403163405/@comment-26006155-20190411122009

And now, I'll respond to Ambassador.

(going backwards, working up the list)

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Flowey's ability to save and load cannot simply be because of his determination injection. Because Undyne has second-hand determination, but was unable to save and load herself. She had determination from a human soul.. but did not have an actual human soul herself.

Flowey, just like Frisk, and Sans, has the power to save and load, and thus the power to remember things from other runs.

Undyne cannot recall things she learned from other runs. Undyne lacks the power to save and load.

Frisk, Sans, and Flowey have human souls. Undyne has determination, but does not have a human soul.

It is possible that Chara's horrific betrayal of Asriel, a violation of their childhood friendship and a trust of the most intimate type possible, damaged ASRIEL in the same way that Chara herself was injured in her village.

Sociopaths are like zombies. They want to hurt others, to spread their twisted view of the world, and spread their negativity far and wide. Because they feel dead inside, and all they can feel is the desire to make others feel that way too.

That's what happens to someone when they lose the ability to feel compassion. It's a terrible wound, and healing it is one of the most difficult things in the world.

I'm sure that Chara believed that the world was all about "Kill or be Killed", and perhaps she did want to infect Asriel with that same ideal. So the argument could be made that Chara successfully damaged Asriel's monster soul too.

However, this doesn't explain why Flowey woke up with only one voice inside him rather than two. Or how the single soul he possessed was able to mimic the human functions of saving and loading.

Saying that Flowey still possessed Chara's broken soul when he returned still fits the evidence the most closely.

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You say "Deltarune is not the same world as Undertale" as if the act of your saying this makes it so.

PROVE this is the case! Why does Sans look the same, and how was he able to teleport Grillby's up from the Underground that, if this isn't the same world, shouldn't exist?

The world had been messed with in some fashion, and time no longer works properly. But virtually every character that appeared in the original game exists in Deltarune in a subtly altered form.

I think this is the same world, but it's been altered in some way. By someone for a specific purpose.

And my theory is that Gaster is forcing Frisk to re-live Chara's story. And the original event that broke her soul and made her want to commit suicide. In an attempt to break Frisk in a similar way.

So don't say "Deltarune is not the same world as Undertale", unless you're prepared to back it up.

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"Why can't they be like some of the people who hate humanity in real life?"

... Chara is SUPPOSED to represent The People Who Hate Humanity In Real Life.

She's a case study of how such people come to exist. How they act. And, hopefully, what can be done to untwist them again.

Chara isn't a monster, she's horribly damaged. But from her perspective, she thinks her current view of the world is right. That the World IS a horrible place where it's Kill Or Be Killed, and so it's totally ok for her to kill others, or make them suffer until they wished they were dead.

This is the major point Undertale is trying to make. This is why Sans makes a point of issuing a statement that not all humans are good or bad when he helps Papyrus run the Underground.

Just being human doesn't make you a monster. It's what you do with that power that does.

And regardless of whatever given pop psychology bullshit people subscribe to, everyone DOES have a choice about how they wish to be, and whether to make the world a better, or worse place.

Because everyone's part of this world. And whether it becomes a heaven or hell depends entirely on what we make of it.

I went over how we knew that Chara's soul was damaged.

Something happened when she was ten or so, that made her want to kill herself. She didn't want to kill herself from birth, or when she was 2, or 5, or 7. It happened when she was TEN.

And besides this unnatural desire to destroy herself, it also led to her betraying the Dreemur Family, some of the nicest creatures in the world, because she valued revenge on her home village, and the humanity that she hated, more than their love for her.

None of that is natural. This is what happens when someone becomes twisted. They think up is down, and day is night.

They don't to live in the real world anymore because the real world is too horrible for them to stand. So they make up their own.

And if anything even threatens the bubble that they've made around themselves, that they made to protect themselves from the outside world? They hate that thing that tries to tell them the truth, and lash out at it.

Chara felt safe in her assumption that nothing mattered anymore, and that her desire to hurt others was OK.

Part of the reason Hyperdeath Asriel stopped playing around and blasted Frisk full in the face with a Kamehameha is that Asriel started to realize that all the people he had hurt was NO OK... and he tried to destroy the messenger, rather than face the reality of that message.

And it was only Frisk's determination to save his friends, and Asriel, that let Frisk survive that attack, and force Asriel to face the real world again.

Which was also the only way to heal him.