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  • Mrs. Halibee.

    You have repeatedly attempted to argue that Chara is evil, and yet you've only used the same three arguments against at least thirty-six (I counted because, unlike you, I pay attention to detail). I can easily destroy your three in one message.


    One: Chara erased the world! 

    Yes, Chara may have indeed deleted the world, but isn't that what you just did? Chara woke up right after being murdered by humans, along with their brother. Then they come back and see a single human, eradicating everything in sight. And they are forced to follow. They can't walk away or talk to anyone. They are forced to witness the actions of a genocidal child who is destroyng their home. You basically just erased their world, so they'll erase yours.


    Two: Chara wanted to destroy humanity!/Chara took over Asriel!

    Where does it ever say they wanted to destroy humans? In the dialogue, they tell Asriel about their plan to kill themself and have Asriel take their soul, then go to the surface and take six human souls to break the barrier. Asriel was hesitant but when Chara told him that it would set monsters free, he agreed. When they went to the surface, humans attacked. Chara urged Asriel to fight back so he wouldn't die, and forced Asriel to the side to defend him. Asriel made them stop, and took control right back. Chara did take over Asriel for a few seconds, but they only did that to protect him. If Chara truly only wanted to destroy humanity, they could have easily just killed the Dreemurrs themself and used their souls, but they didn't. They wanted to free monsters, not destroy humans.


    Three: Chara controlled Frisk!

    Chara only killed on their own in three instances. They struck a second time during the Sans fight to end it because they know that if the human died again, they would have just come back and carried on. They struck down Asgore in one blow because they didn't want to see their father suffer a long and drawn out death, or a painful one. And when they killed Flowey? Guess what? You have to press [z] to begin attacking. Chara hesitates. They could handle killing one family member, but they couldn't kill another one. And, in this time, you are still able to exit the game. Chara hesitates because they can't kill their brother, their best friend, on their own, and tries to make it so you can leave, stop killing, and fix everything. Unless you push them. Unless you press [z] and Chara enters a frenzy, slashing over and over blindly so they don't have to aim, don't have to directly watch their brother's demise.

    YOU push them. YOU made them perform the actions at the end of the genocide run. You killed all monsters, so they killed all humans. Hence why they say that you showed them their purpose. You taught them that they needed to kill, that murder was the answer. You made them into what they are. And when they don't let you come back? They specifically ask you 'You think you are above consequences?' You're not. You're the one who caused the no mercy route and corrupted Chara. No one else. So please, stop trying to blame a dead fictional child for your own actions.

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    • Okeirany wrote:
      Halibee wrote:

      Okeirany wrote:


      Halibee wrote:

      Okeirany wrote:


      Halibee wrote:

      JustinMasterMine wrote: I'm glad I'm not the only one here who's sick of the Undertale Wiki being filled with immature brats arguing about Chara's morality. I bet that if this senseless conflict keeps going, the Undertale Wiki will regress into Hong Kong.

      Lol, that's for sure. Like, it's one thing if it's a debate, but God forbid you point out a flaw in someone's theory then they'll get on you for it. And they have the nerve to mock you for it!
      Except you didn't mention a 'flaw in my argument'. You tried to say that Undertale, a game in which the player's actions and direct choices alter the storyline greatly and characters speak directly to the player, and in which the player is a separate entity that still has an impact, can't involve the player in the argument.

      For your first rebuttal, I doubt turning away will get rid of sounds. And, it's explicitly stated that Chara only became powerful enough to stop you after you completed the Genocide Route due to their SOUl- and by extension, LV and EXP- being linked with yours.

      Secondly, no, Asriel never said that. He that they picked up their own body. Along with that, Chara only told Asriel to use his full power. Why would they be telling him to if they were in control?

      Also, your other thing makes zero sense. If they already knew about SOUL merging, they could have easily just killed the entire Dreemurr family by themselves and taken their SOULS as they were Boss Monsters, and then killed all the humans. But they didn't.

      And three, no you haven't. That's... not a rebuttal.

      Well look who it is, the rebel without a clue. And here I thought you decided to grow a brain cell and heed my own words and buzz off. Looks like I was wrong.

      Were you taking so long to respond just to come up with this stupid argument? If you did, then I suggest you buzz off somewhere. I swear, people like you get on my nerves. Saying something so stupid and continuing to act stupid even when your arguments are overwritten.

      Time to point some things out. Firstly, if Chara was actually trying to stop Frisk, she wouldn't suggest erasing everything. Instead, she would actually kill Frisk.

      Secondly, I just told you that Asriel said that Chara picked up her own body, all you're doing is repeating what I'm saying. You really are stupid if you're gonna bring that flimsy excuse into an argument. Since you conveniently forgot what Asriel said about the incident, I'll remind you. Asriel said that he was fighting with Chara for control over his body, so obviously Chara was telling him to let her have full control.

      Another stupid flimsy argument, you might wanna stop while you're ahead, you're just embarrassing yourself at this point. If you paid any attention at all to the game, then you'd know that humans CAN'T absorb monster souls.

      And three, since I have to explain it, your argument was that everything that happened in the Genocide route was the player's fault. If you're gonna blame everything that happens in a VIDEO GAME on the player, then that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you're an idiot.

      IT IS A STUPID VIDEO GAME, A FREAKING VIDEO GAME!!! In other words, IT'S NOT REAL!!! Anything that happens in a game, is the character's fault, not the player! All the player does is advance it by making certain choices and taking certain actions, which leads to different endings.

      A video game is supposed to be fun, but YOU people have to turn it into something horrible by making others feel bad about their choices and enjoying themselves. So do me and everyone else a favor and BEAT IT!!!

      One: Chara does kill Frisk.

      Two: Asriel nerver stated that they were fighting for control. There's a convenient wiki with information about that if you'd like to check.

      Three: Yes, humans CAN absorb monster SOULs. It's just rarer as only boss monster SOULs remain upon death, meaning that humans can only anbsorb the SOULs of boss monsters.

      Four: Yes. It is your fault. The advertisement for the game explicitly states that your choices directly affect the storyline and gameplay. With an interactive game such as Undertale, the player's choices and actions do directly affect the game, thus making the things in the game due to the player's actions.

      Uh, are YOU the creator of Undertale? Cause, last I checked, the creator of Undertale was Toby Fox. So basically, what you're doing right now is pulling crap out of your butt. Since you're saying things without thinking and for your own convenience, and using flimsy excuses and reasons, like a stupid advertisement, for your pathetic excuse of an argument.

      You know, anyone with half a gnat's brain would know when an argument is won. But you, apparently, don't even have that. All you wanna do is argue because you have nothing better to do. How about you grow a brain cell and beat it when I tell you to.

      Oh, I'm the one who's lost when you can't even come up with a solid rebuttal? I wasn't saying that the ad was canon, I was using it as an example of the fact that Toby- who wrote the ad- meant for the player's actions to directly affect the storyline. Hence the line of "You think you are above consequences?" It's the game itself stating that your actions have consequences. Also, I'm not being rude nor am I insulting you, so I don't know why you are. One of the reasons I particularly wanted to shift your mindest at least a bit is because you insult and degrade anyone who disagrees with you, rather than just having a discussion with them like a regular human being. This was meant to be a discussion, not a contest for you to see how many times you can rehash the same insult to hide the fact that you have nothing new to add to the debate.

      I'll tell you why, because all you're doing is repeating the same thing over and over again. I DON'T have a solid rebuttal? You're the one who's talking in circles, not me! So I'm not gonna be a part of your little petty games! You act like you're trying to prove a point, but all you're doing is repeating the same thing to me again and again! And not doing anything to prove me wrong!

      And for your information, the reason I insult some people, is because, like you, they don't bring anything new to the discussion. They only repeat the same things over and over again, so it's not even a discussion! So the only ones who aren't bringing anything new to the debate, are you people.

      Now, are you gonna shove off? Or are you going to continue repeating yourself like broken record player? If you continue to harrass me, then the only point YOU'LL be proving, is that you're looking for a fight. So, what's it going to be?

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    • Halibee wrote:
      Okeirany wrote:
      Halibee wrote:

      Okeirany wrote:


      Halibee wrote:

      Okeirany wrote:



      Halibee wrote:

      JustinMasterMine wrote: I'm glad I'm not the only one here who's sick of the Undertale Wiki being filled with immature brats arguing about Chara's morality. I bet that if this senseless conflict keeps going, the Undertale Wiki will regress into Hong Kong.

      Lol, that's for sure. Like, it's one thing if it's a debate, but God forbid you point out a flaw in someone's theory then they'll get on you for it. And they have the nerve to mock you for it!
      Except you didn't mention a 'flaw in my argument'. You tried to say that Undertale, a game in which the player's actions and direct choices alter the storyline greatly and characters speak directly to the player, and in which the player is a separate entity that still has an impact, can't involve the player in the argument.

      For your first rebuttal, I doubt turning away will get rid of sounds. And, it's explicitly stated that Chara only became powerful enough to stop you after you completed the Genocide Route due to their SOUl- and by extension, LV and EXP- being linked with yours.

      Secondly, no, Asriel never said that. He that they picked up their own body. Along with that, Chara only told Asriel to use his full power. Why would they be telling him to if they were in control?

      Also, your other thing makes zero sense. If they already knew about SOUL merging, they could have easily just killed the entire Dreemurr family by themselves and taken their SOULS as they were Boss Monsters, and then killed all the humans. But they didn't.

      And three, no you haven't. That's... not a rebuttal.

      Well look who it is, the rebel without a clue. And here I thought you decided to grow a brain cell and heed my own words and buzz off. Looks like I was wrong.

      Were you taking so long to respond just to come up with this stupid argument? If you did, then I suggest you buzz off somewhere. I swear, people like you get on my nerves. Saying something so stupid and continuing to act stupid even when your arguments are overwritten.

      Time to point some things out. Firstly, if Chara was actually trying to stop Frisk, she wouldn't suggest erasing everything. Instead, she would actually kill Frisk.

      Secondly, I just told you that Asriel said that Chara picked up her own body, all you're doing is repeating what I'm saying. You really are stupid if you're gonna bring that flimsy excuse into an argument. Since you conveniently forgot what Asriel said about the incident, I'll remind you. Asriel said that he was fighting with Chara for control over his body, so obviously Chara was telling him to let her have full control.

      Another stupid flimsy argument, you might wanna stop while you're ahead, you're just embarrassing yourself at this point. If you paid any attention at all to the game, then you'd know that humans CAN'T absorb monster souls.

      And three, since I have to explain it, your argument was that everything that happened in the Genocide route was the player's fault. If you're gonna blame everything that happens in a VIDEO GAME on the player, then that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you're an idiot.

      IT IS A STUPID VIDEO GAME, A FREAKING VIDEO GAME!!! In other words, IT'S NOT REAL!!! Anything that happens in a game, is the character's fault, not the player! All the player does is advance it by making certain choices and taking certain actions, which leads to different endings.

      A video game is supposed to be fun, but YOU people have to turn it into something horrible by making others feel bad about their choices and enjoying themselves. So do me and everyone else a favor and BEAT IT!!!

      One: Chara does kill Frisk.

      Two: Asriel nerver stated that they were fighting for control. There's a convenient wiki with information about that if you'd like to check.

      Three: Yes, humans CAN absorb monster SOULs. It's just rarer as only boss monster SOULs remain upon death, meaning that humans can only anbsorb the SOULs of boss monsters.

      Four: Yes. It is your fault. The advertisement for the game explicitly states that your choices directly affect the storyline and gameplay. With an interactive game such as Undertale, the player's choices and actions do directly affect the game, thus making the things in the game due to the player's actions.

      Uh, are YOU the creator of Undertale? Cause, last I checked, the creator of Undertale was Toby Fox. So basically, what you're doing right now is pulling crap out of your butt. Since you're saying things without thinking and for your own convenience, and using flimsy excuses and reasons, like a stupid advertisement, for your pathetic excuse of an argument.

      You know, anyone with half a gnat's brain would know when an argument is won. But you, apparently, don't even have that. All you wanna do is argue because you have nothing better to do. How about you grow a brain cell and beat it when I tell you to.

      Oh, I'm the one who's lost when you can't even come up with a solid rebuttal? I wasn't saying that the ad was canon, I was using it as an example of the fact that Toby- who wrote the ad- meant for the player's actions to directly affect the storyline. Hence the line of "You think you are above consequences?" It's the game itself stating that your actions have consequences. Also, I'm not being rude nor am I insulting you, so I don't know why you are. One of the reasons I particularly wanted to shift your mindest at least a bit is because you insult and degrade anyone who disagrees with you, rather than just having a discussion with them like a regular human being. This was meant to be a discussion, not a contest for you to see how many times you can rehash the same insult to hide the fact that you have nothing new to add to the debate.
      I'll tell you why, because all you're doing is repeating the same thing over and over again. I DON'T have a solid rebuttal? You're the one who's talking in circles, not me! So I'm not gonna be a part of your little petty games! You act like you're trying to prove a point, but all you're doing is repeating the same thing to me again and again! And not doing anything to prove me wrong!

      And for your information, the reason I insult some people, is because, like you, they don't bring anything new to the discussion. They only repeat the same things over and over again, so it's not even a discussion! So the only ones who aren't bringing anything new to the debate, are you people.

      Now, are you gonna shove off? Or are you going to continue repeating yourself like broken record player? If you continue to harrass me, then the only point YOU'LL be proving, is that you're looking for a fight. So, what's it going to be?

      Did you even read the name of my post in the first place? People come to you with rebuttal upon rebuttal and bring countless amounts of new information to debunk you, and you only use the three same arguments! And I'm not 'talking in circles'. You tried to find a fault in my argument with both speculation and misinformation, and I used evidence to counter those. That's not talkin in circles, that's defending my argument, something you've failed to do on multiple occasions by only having three pieces of evidence that don't even work.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • A official Undertale followup is now released. I played it and I loved it. I think it fixed a lot of the problems I had for Undertale.

    The morality system works far better. Rather than insulting the player and treat them like horrible people for killing fictional characters, instead it would have every monster run away, making it so that the player won't gain any stats.

    Plus, it has better character development. The main problem a lot of people I know have with Undertale, mainly the pacifist run, that a lot of characters act a bit forced turning into blood hungry monsters who want revenge to best friends. Delta Rune fixed those things by having Susie, a monster who is a edgy teen that likes to bully others, slowly change into a nice person throughout the game.

    And most importantly, WE HAVE ACTUAL WEAPONS! I know this is just a minor problem, but I have a hard time understanding how we kill a powerful knight in ballet shoes or empty guns or sticks. Having a sword, and a axe and a scythe as actual weapons seem more realistic for me.

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    • Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      I like it a lot I have to say, I didn't get why we don't gain experience when we finish off our opponents though, but you cleared that up with the whole monsters running away thing. I didn't like the fact that there were two endings though. The one I got scared the crap out of me!
      That is because Delta Rune doesn't have a real "choice". Like I said, I think the best way to discourage people from playing Toby's games violently is to make sure that option isn't possible. Toby made sure that the choices we made from Undertale never mattered. There is no genocide run. Only pacifist.
      Well, it's not like I fought them the whole time. I only did it for about a quarter of the game, then I started sparing and pacifying people, still got that ending. Looks like I'm gonna have to keep that in mind whenever I play something else made by Toby Fox. I have to wonder if that ending had any meaning though.
      I have a theory:

      Chara is inside a world where they shouldn't exist, a world where the war of humans and monsters never happened. So Chara needs a body, a vessel. However, Gaster says to Chara that they can't decide what happens in Delta Rune, but Chara becomes so determined to destroy everything that they take over Kris's body, forcing them to throw away their own soul. Gaster is using his powers to create a world of peace and harmony, and Chara is trying to erase everything. Essentially, it's like a battle between Chara and Gaster. Like a game of chess or checkers. This fits perfectly well with the whole "game" theme of Delta Rune. Because it really IS a game, a game of wits of whoever gets to destroy one another first.

      Huh, that's some theory. I'm guessing that the good ending with Kris breakdancing is Gaster's doing? Now that I think about it, if your theory is true, then it would explain a LOT. I don't know about you, but I believe Chara is dwelling inside Frisk's body from the moment Frisk fell into the Underground. Because at the very end of the True Pacifist route, Flowey asks Chara to let Frisk be happy. Which begs the question as to why he would say that, unless there was a cause for concern on Chara's behalf.

      So regardless of which route you take, Chara will always be present. I know this has nothing to do with Delta Rune, but I couldn't help but think that this holds true for Undertale too. Also, it could explain why Kris' face is blank.

      I would assume the world of Delta Rune is created by W.D. Gaster himself, a world where the war never happened and thus Undertale never happened.

      There's a theory online that also states that Delta Rune could actually be a prequel, explaining the origins of Chara and Gaster as well as Sans. In Sans's secret lab, there's a photo of him with three people Frisk doesn't recgonize. Those three people could be Kris, Susie, and possibly Ralsei or Lancer. There's also a blueprint that looks exactly like the blueprint Lancer and Susie made. There's a broken machine which could mean anything, but Sans's bedroom door looks exactly like the doors in Delta Rune where you would use to teleport from place to place. It's pretty much like a Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep sorta deal.

      I don't think the blueprints or the broken machine have anything to do with it, I mean, the blueprints probably only look alike because that's how Toby Fox draws them. The things in Sans' workshop are related to the time when was working for Gaster. Not only that, but Delta Rune has nothing to do with Undertale, rather than a world created by Gaster, it's simply an alternate reality.

      I guess Chara does have a part to play though, considering that ominous ending. I can't help but think that ending is intregal to the plotline, did you notice the stain that was next to the birdcage? I think that's blood, when I first played the game and examined it, it didn't say what it was exactly, but the way it described it was pretty ominous. Which leads me to believe that what happened in that ending, happened once before. Or something similar at least.

      It was mentioned Kris used kechup on themselves and act like it was blood. I assume the red stain is simply the effect on that. But still, you have a good point, especially since Kris owns nothing but a wagon with a cage. Either Kris lived a miserable life, or something sinister is going on.

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    • Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      I like it a lot I have to say, I didn't get why we don't gain experience when we finish off our opponents though, but you cleared that up with the whole monsters running away thing. I didn't like the fact that there were two endings though. The one I got scared the crap out of me!
      That is because Delta Rune doesn't have a real "choice". Like I said, I think the best way to discourage people from playing Toby's games violently is to make sure that option isn't possible. Toby made sure that the choices we made from Undertale never mattered. There is no genocide run. Only pacifist.
      Well, it's not like I fought them the whole time. I only did it for about a quarter of the game, then I started sparing and pacifying people, still got that ending. Looks like I'm gonna have to keep that in mind whenever I play something else made by Toby Fox. I have to wonder if that ending had any meaning though.
      I have a theory:

      Chara is inside a world where they shouldn't exist, a world where the war of humans and monsters never happened. So Chara needs a body, a vessel. However, Gaster says to Chara that they can't decide what happens in Delta Rune, but Chara becomes so determined to destroy everything that they take over Kris's body, forcing them to throw away their own soul. Gaster is using his powers to create a world of peace and harmony, and Chara is trying to erase everything. Essentially, it's like a battle between Chara and Gaster. Like a game of chess or checkers. This fits perfectly well with the whole "game" theme of Delta Rune. Because it really IS a game, a game of wits of whoever gets to destroy one another first.

      Huh, that's some theory. I'm guessing that the good ending with Kris breakdancing is Gaster's doing? Now that I think about it, if your theory is true, then it would explain a LOT. I don't know about you, but I believe Chara is dwelling inside Frisk's body from the moment Frisk fell into the Underground. Because at the very end of the True Pacifist route, Flowey asks Chara to let Frisk be happy. Which begs the question as to why he would say that, unless there was a cause for concern on Chara's behalf.

      So regardless of which route you take, Chara will always be present. I know this has nothing to do with Delta Rune, but I couldn't help but think that this holds true for Undertale too. Also, it could explain why Kris' face is blank.

      I would assume the world of Delta Rune is created by W.D. Gaster himself, a world where the war never happened and thus Undertale never happened.

      There's a theory online that also states that Delta Rune could actually be a prequel, explaining the origins of Chara and Gaster as well as Sans. In Sans's secret lab, there's a photo of him with three people Frisk doesn't recgonize. Those three people could be Kris, Susie, and possibly Ralsei or Lancer. There's also a blueprint that looks exactly like the blueprint Lancer and Susie made. There's a broken machine which could mean anything, but Sans's bedroom door looks exactly like the doors in Delta Rune where you would use to teleport from place to place. It's pretty much like a Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep sorta deal.

      I don't think the blueprints or the broken machine have anything to do with it, I mean, the blueprints probably only look alike because that's how Toby Fox draws them. The things in Sans' workshop are related to the time when was working for Gaster. Not only that, but Delta Rune has nothing to do with Undertale, rather than a world created by Gaster, it's simply an alternate reality.

      I guess Chara does have a part to play though, considering that ominous ending. I can't help but think that ending is intregal to the plotline, did you notice the stain that was next to the birdcage? I think that's blood, when I first played the game and examined it, it didn't say what it was exactly, but the way it described it was pretty ominous. Which leads me to believe that what happened in that ending, happened once before. Or something similar at least.

      It was mentioned Kris used kechup on themselves and act like it was blood. I assume the red stain is simply the effect on that. But still, you have a good point, especially since Kris owns nothing but a wagon with a cage. Either Kris lived a miserable life, or something sinister is going on.

      I'd be surprised if it was the former, considering Kris lived with Toriel and Asgore since they were very young. When talking to Toriel, she'll say that when Kris was younger, they asked when they would grow a pair of horns just like Asriel. This says that Kris has been raised by them since they were a baby. It has to be something sinister, the only question is, is what?

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • This a video I made that is about Frisk and Asriel trying to save Chara from Giygas's evil hands.

    Some parts of it are a bit rushed, but I hope you like it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg4D5JsVUPc

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    • Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      This a video I made that is about Frisk and Asriel trying to save Chara from Giygas's evil hands.

      Some parts of it are a bit rushed, but I hope you like it.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg4D5JsVUPc

      I'd enjoy it more if I knew what they were saying. The video itself reminds me of Lucas and Claus.

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    • A FANDOM user
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    • Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      I hope you enjoy it.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj9owVNExjY

      Oh maaan, that was so creepy! If I hadn't readied myself, I probably would've screamed. Though I have to admit, the person doing Chara's voice suited her perfectly.
      Yep. And notice that when Chara says "Let us destroy this world and move to the next" their voice becomes slightly demonic.

      Strangely, this is what Giygas/Giegue said to Ninten in Mother 1, but Ninten refused.

      Oh I noticed, it'd be hard not to notice. I can believe that.
      The connections between Giygas and Chara are certainly uncanny.
      I'm sure, but unlike Frisk, Ninten didn't go around slaughtering people. So what was Giygas' reason for asking him that, was it a last ditch effort to save himself from destruction?
      In Mother 1/Earthbound Beginnings, it is explained that Ninten is the great-grandson of George and Maria. George and Maria are the people who adopted Giygas. While Maria would sing melodies to Giygas(the same melodies that Ninten and his friends would sing in the final battle of Mother 1) George would experiment on Giygas to learn about the ability called PSI, which explains why Ninten has psychic abilities. It is more likely the reason why Giygas/Giegue asked Ninten to join him is because of how Ninten reminds him of Maria, similarly towards how Frisk reminds Asriel of Chara.
      Makes sense. Giygas was a human!? I thought that he was just a monster or something, I need to look this stuff up. I know this is off topic, but I gotta ask, wasn't Pokey, or Porky as they sometimes call him, brainwashed by Giygas? I know that he turned evil around the time Giygas awakened, but even after he's defeated he's still a bad guy.
      Giygas was adopted, the same way how Chara was adopted by Toriel and Asgore. And yes, Porky was brainwashed by Giygas. He was influenced by him and gained Giygas's abilities. He decided to make his own army and his own "utopia" before destroying what's left of the world.
      I guess Giygas' influence affected him even after he was gone, huh? Although, if that's the case, then some of the things that Porky says don't really make sense. He said that he wanted to get away from everyone who didn't like him, but I thought he and Ness were friends. Plus, he had his brother Picky.
      I think it's because since Mother 3 takes place several decades after Mother 2/Earthbound, Ness wouldn't be alive at that time period. Porky did kept several items from Mother 2 such as the phone, phase disorder, bus, etc.

      Porky and Ness are indeed friends, but yet because of how Porky has been bullied and abused by his parents, his hatred is what led him to become evil. He worked with Giygas so that he could prove to others that he should be respected more. Because of that, Porky and Ness became enemies. Due to that, Porky pretends he hates Ness to the point where he released Giygas upon him and taunt him about being traumatized. But yet Porky still cares about Ness hence as of why despite his taunting and battles, he still remembers Ness as a friend. But because of how Ness no longer existed in the future, Porky decided to finish what Giygas started and destroy what's left of the world. Porky has this habit of making people call him "Master" or "King", because he wanted respect and power. Hence, why he says "I only assist the strong and able!"

      He time traveled though didn't he? In fact, I thought he time traveled near the end of Earthbound.
      He said that because he time traveled, he didn't age like a normal person.
      Said what? That he'd only assist the strong and able?

      "I've gone through time and space so many times I haven't aged like a normal person. Who knows, I might be 1000 years old, or even 10,000 years old. But despite that, I'm still the same kid at heart! Is that funny? It is, isn't it? Does it make you laugh? *cough* *wheeze* Are you laughing at me?!"-Porky Minch, Mother 3

      "Hey Ness! It's me, Pokey(Porky)! I am assist the strong and able! Yep. that Pokey(Porky)!"-Porky Minch, Mother 2/Earthbound

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    • Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      I hope you enjoy it.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj9owVNExjY

      Oh maaan, that was so creepy! If I hadn't readied myself, I probably would've screamed. Though I have to admit, the person doing Chara's voice suited her perfectly.
      Yep. And notice that when Chara says "Let us destroy this world and move to the next" their voice becomes slightly demonic.

      Strangely, this is what Giygas/Giegue said to Ninten in Mother 1, but Ninten refused.

      Oh I noticed, it'd be hard not to notice. I can believe that.
      The connections between Giygas and Chara are certainly uncanny.
      I'm sure, but unlike Frisk, Ninten didn't go around slaughtering people. So what was Giygas' reason for asking him that, was it a last ditch effort to save himself from destruction?
      In Mother 1/Earthbound Beginnings, it is explained that Ninten is the great-grandson of George and Maria. George and Maria are the people who adopted Giygas. While Maria would sing melodies to Giygas(the same melodies that Ninten and his friends would sing in the final battle of Mother 1) George would experiment on Giygas to learn about the ability called PSI, which explains why Ninten has psychic abilities. It is more likely the reason why Giygas/Giegue asked Ninten to join him is because of how Ninten reminds him of Maria, similarly towards how Frisk reminds Asriel of Chara.
      Makes sense. Giygas was a human!? I thought that he was just a monster or something, I need to look this stuff up. I know this is off topic, but I gotta ask, wasn't Pokey, or Porky as they sometimes call him, brainwashed by Giygas? I know that he turned evil around the time Giygas awakened, but even after he's defeated he's still a bad guy.
      Giygas was adopted, the same way how Chara was adopted by Toriel and Asgore. And yes, Porky was brainwashed by Giygas. He was influenced by him and gained Giygas's abilities. He decided to make his own army and his own "utopia" before destroying what's left of the world.
      I guess Giygas' influence affected him even after he was gone, huh? Although, if that's the case, then some of the things that Porky says don't really make sense. He said that he wanted to get away from everyone who didn't like him, but I thought he and Ness were friends. Plus, he had his brother Picky.
      I think it's because since Mother 3 takes place several decades after Mother 2/Earthbound, Ness wouldn't be alive at that time period. Porky did kept several items from Mother 2 such as the phone, phase disorder, bus, etc.

      Porky and Ness are indeed friends, but yet because of how Porky has been bullied and abused by his parents, his hatred is what led him to become evil. He worked with Giygas so that he could prove to others that he should be respected more. Because of that, Porky and Ness became enemies. Due to that, Porky pretends he hates Ness to the point where he released Giygas upon him and taunt him about being traumatized. But yet Porky still cares about Ness hence as of why despite his taunting and battles, he still remembers Ness as a friend. But because of how Ness no longer existed in the future, Porky decided to finish what Giygas started and destroy what's left of the world. Porky has this habit of making people call him "Master" or "King", because he wanted respect and power. Hence, why he says "I only assist the strong and able!"

      He time traveled though didn't he? In fact, I thought he time traveled near the end of Earthbound.
      He said that because he time traveled, he didn't age like a normal person.
      Said what? That he'd only assist the strong and able?
      "I've gone through time and space so many times I haven't aged like a normal person. Who knows, I might be 1000 years old, or even 10,000 years old. But despite that, I'm still the same kid at heart! Is that funny? It is, isn't it? Does it make you laugh? *cough* *wheeze* Are you laughing at me?!"-Porky Minch, Mother 3

      "Hey Ness! It's me, Pokey(Porky)! I am assist the strong and able! Yep. that Pokey(Porky)!"-Porky Minch, Mother 2/Earthbound

      Oh. Well, you gotta feel sorry for old Porky. Being trapped inside that Absolutely Safe Capsule, nothing can get in and nothing can get out. Dr. Andounts even said that the capsule was meant for protecting the outside from what was inside, and not protect what was inside from the outside. I mean yeah he was dangerous, but not that dangerous.

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  • I do not HATE Undertale. I love the batlle system, even if it's ripped from Tohou, but I still think it's bautifully done and the creative ways to fight enemies for me is truly inspiring. The main message of the game, however, annoys me to the point where I question Toby's creditibility.

    For example, I hate playing games that shout insults at me just because I play it a certain way. Saying that I'm a "complete psycho" for wanting to play the game from a new perspective is a little bit hypocritical. I am used to being punished for playing video games constantly. There's a difference between being punished and getting fustrated over a hard level or boss, than being called horrible names and treated like a bad guy for playing a game a certain way. When I play games that fustrate me, like say Cuphead or Megaman, I either try to get better at the game or play something else. When the game insults me when I lose that just means I need to get better at playing. Yeah, it's fustrating, but in the end, it's just the difficulty, which is in of itself not determined by how the game is designed or the way it's played. While there are indeed games like Cuphead that are infamous for being intentionally made difficult as a nod towards how hard games were back in the 80's and 90's, Undertale insults the player in another way that I cannot stand.

    Undertale isn't a hard game. At least not for me. I can easily defeat several enemies through memorization and timing. What I hate about Undertale is the unnecessary judgements for the way that I play. If I choose genocide, that's my choice. I know that while I do feel bad for killing the monsters, I get over it because in the end, I know those characters are fictional and their deaths do not effect me as a person. But what pisses me off is how the game takes itself way too seriously like saying how horrible a person I am for killing characters in a video game. The game punishes players because of a choice they were given in the beginning. That is bullshit. If doing something is so bad, why were we given the option to begin with? Not only it makes no sense, but it goes against the idea of playing video games in the first place. If Toby Fox didn't want players to kill his characters, then he should've just made the pacifist run and the genocide run two separate games, or better yet, have the game be pacifist only. If a game gives people the option to kill a character, they are most likely gonna do it either out of curiosity or to find achievements to 100% the game. And punishing players for doing those things is complete bullshit.

    Either give us the option so we can acheieve a different ending, or just leave it out. Toby didn't need to insult players for playing a video game the way he didn't want people to play. The idea of playing video games is to escape and have fun or to test their skills. Undertale doesn't do those things.

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    • Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Violetpelt wrote:
      I always though the way the game treats you in most neutral runs was a little harsh (that goes for the fandom too, to be honest), but the game is mostly about morality. The idea of the game is to treat it as if it is real. In real life, would you kill them, or would you show mercy?

      Also, about the idea of having a pacifist-only game, the pacifism means nothing if there isn't choice in it.

      I understand that Undertale isn't for everyone and I respect your opinion, but perhaps you were looking at it in the wrong way.

      But yet making a game centered around reality is extremely redundant since there are other games like Sims and GTA that do that perfectly. And I just can't treat a game as if it's real life if it's about a little kid who survives falling several feet underground, befriends a bunch of strangers who try to kill them, and defeats a supposed immortal god with the power to control time and space. Undertale is not realistic, like, AT ALL.
      Of course, its fantasy, there's nothing realistic when it comes to fantasy.

      Then why have it centered around morality if Toby knew that these characters are fictional?

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    • Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Halibee wrote:
      Mikeykitty123 wrote:
      Violetpelt wrote:
      I always though the way the game treats you in most neutral runs was a little harsh (that goes for the fandom too, to be honest), but the game is mostly about morality. The idea of the game is to treat it as if it is real. In real life, would you kill them, or would you show mercy?

      Also, about the idea of having a pacifist-only game, the pacifism means nothing if there isn't choice in it.

      I understand that Undertale isn't for everyone and I respect your opinion, but perhaps you were looking at it in the wrong way.

      But yet making a game centered around reality is extremely redundant since there are other games like Sims and GTA that do that perfectly. And I just can't treat a game as if it's real life if it's about a little kid who survives falling several feet underground, befriends a bunch of strangers who try to kill them, and defeats a supposed immortal god with the power to control time and space. Undertale is not realistic, like, AT ALL.
      Of course, its fantasy, there's nothing realistic when it comes to fantasy.
      Then why have it centered around morality if Toby knew that these characters are fictional?

      Don't ask me, I'm not the one who said that it was centered around morality. I said that because you said it wasn't realistic. Though now I'm starting to think I misunderstood something.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Hi, welcome to the Undertale Wiki! Thanks for contributing to the wiki!
    I recommend checking out the wiki's rules so that you can most effectively contribute to the wiki.
    Please leave me a message if I can help with anything!
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